Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on September 08, 2005, 12:06:41 AM
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About how much would you be paying for gas if it werent taxed by your state?
State Total gas-tax
burden/gallon
New York 62.9 cents
Hawaii 60.1 cents
California 60.0 cents
Illinois 54.6 cents
Connecticut 53.9 cents
Michigan 52.4 cents
Nevada 51.9 cents
Wisconsin 51.3 cents
Florida 49.8 cents
Pennsylvania 49.5 cents
Rhode Island 49.4 cents
Washington 49.4 cents
Indiana 48.0 cents
Ohio 46.4 cents
Montana 46.2 cents
Maine 45.8 cents
North Carolina 45.8 cents
West Virginia 45.4 cents
Nebraska 44.6 cents
Idaho 43.4 cents
Kansas 43.4 cents
Utah 42.9 cents
Oregon 42.4 cents
South Dakota 42.4 cents
Maryland 41.9 cents
Massachusetts 41.9 cents
Delaware 41.4 cents
North Dakota 41.4 cents
Georgia 41.2 cents
Colorado 40.4 cents
Minnesota 40.4 cents
Arkansas 40.1 cents
Iowa 40.1 cents
Tennessee 39.8 cents
New Hampshire 39.0 cents
Alabama 38.7 cents
Washington D.C. 38.4 cents
Louisiana 38.4 cents
Texas 38.4 cents
Vermont 38.4 cents
Virginia 37.7 cents
Arizona 37.4 cents
Mississippi 37.2 cents
Kentucky 36.9 cents
New Mexico 36.4 cents
Missouri 36.0 cents
Oklahoma 35.4 cents
South Carolina 35.2 cents
New Jersey 32.9 cents
Wyoming 32.4 cents
Alaska 26.4 cents
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Is that just state tax, or does that include the federal tax in those numbers?
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I searched, but could only find data on 2002.
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/gastax.pdf
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Wait a sec, is that how much they charge us in taxes? Or is that how much it would cost without taxes?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
About how much would you be paying for gas if it werent taxed by your state?
Of course, without the funds to build the roads we would not be able to drive anywhere.
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The gasoline tax here is .59€ per liter. That is added to the price of gas and the VAT of 22% is added on top of that sum. A liter at the moment is around 1.35€, so the tax free price of the gas is roughly 0.51€/l. That converts to 1.96€/$2.45 per gallon, so the tax burden is $4.05 per gallon..
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Venezuela ~4 cents
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Is that just state tax, or does that include the federal tax in those numbers?
IT was an article on AOHELL that was mentioning thatsome states were thinking of temporarily relaxing some of the gas taxes.
And gave that listing by state
So I am assuming they were referring to state tax only
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Of course, without the funds to build the roads we would not be able to drive anywhere.
I realise this. It was more a question of curiousity then a complaint.
Curious as to how much gas is by state if the states taxes were not included.
Course this is also going by the assumption that the fed tax is flat across the board reguardless of state
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Of course, without the funds to build the roads we would not be able to drive anywhere.
Guess that is why they are building toll roads faster than free ones? Here in texas the gas-tax revenues go into the general coffers and get spent on everything BUT roads. I filled up this morning for 2.71/gal.
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exactly... if they used the money they got from gas tax to build roads then all roads in America would be like the autobaun except.... made of gold.
They do what government allways does with the money instead tho.
lazs
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I am completely against decreasing fuel tax or releasing any fuel from the National Reserve.
Part of me LIKES having the prices as they are, maybe it will be enough to finally encourage us to get away from an oil based economy a find alternative sources.
We should of woke up during the 70s gas shortage, but instead we are driving SUVs, some of which only get 10-15 miles per gallon (and some, amazingly less).
All of the above said, they should eliminate all the tax on all distillate fuels (diesel and heating oil). This way, the price of goods does not 'trickle down' to show the increased costs for fuel truckers are paying, it would allow the price of goods to remain constant and encourage the economy to grow.
Heating oil is also a distillate fuel and should not be taxed at this time, or only taxed after a certain number of gallons per year, for obvious reasons.
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Originally posted by Delirium
Heating oil is also a distillate fuel and should not be taxed at this time, or only taxed after a certain number of gallons per year, for obvious reasons.
Thus spake the guy who lives up north...LOL.
So can I get my summertime AC bill subsidized too?
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No.
Well. Change your name to "Edbert Petroleum Corp, Inc.", make a healthy cash donation to the whatever PAC fund Ken Mehlman suggests and perhaps the great and poweful Shawk'n'Oz will wave his magical wand of "tax_break" and one of the blessed thou shalt be.
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Originally posted by Edbert
Thus spake the guy who lives up north...LOL.
So can I get my summertime AC bill subsidized too?
It is estimated that heating oil will far surpass mortage payments this winter. Don't you think people low income families deserve a break?
Heating oil is for just that, heat... you can't do much of anything else with it. Besides, how to does cutting CONNECTICUT heating oil tax affect someone from Texas? Why would you even care?
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A lot of lower income and the elderly will be eating meals of peanut butter and ritz crackers this winter for sure. Why? Because the rest of thier money will be sucked up by this profiteer driven "market" just to keep from freezing to death (literally). In the meantime record quarterly profits will continue to break the previous benchmarks.
I imagine this is where we'll see the neo-cons conveniently shove aside thier "Christian values" to invoke the name of Darwin and utter shallow words of "but that's capitalism and the free market."
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Originally posted by Delirium
Besides, how to does cutting CONNECTICUT heating oil tax affect someone from Texas? Why would you even care?
I thought you were asking for a federal or nationwide subsidy, if you just meant your state you are right I don't care.
I do care about the notion that tax RATES should vary based upon ANY criteria, everyone should pay the same rate no matter what. Variable rates was part of Marx's manifesto.
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Originally posted by Westy
I imagine this is where we'll see the neo-cons conveniently shove aside thier "Christian values" to invoke the name of Darwin and utter shallow words of "but that's capitalism and the free market."
Capitalism fails when there are barriers that prevent the entry into the marketplace of competitors.
Do you think that it is legal for me to rent a tanker and buy a chitload of the Venezuelan gasoline for $0.05 cents a gallon and bring it here to sell for $2.00? THAT is capitalism and "free-marketism". But that would put a dent in the profiteering of Exxon/Shell/BP/etc. and upset many millionaires and their lobbyists. it would also send the stock of "Edbert pertoleum Inc." through the roof enabling me to get even more tankers and so on and so on. But it is in violation of our laws to do that.
So I am in agreement with a great deal of your point, our corrupt politicians have rigged the system to enrich themselves and their cronies, but we are to blame for keeping the 95+% recitivism...errr...re-election rate in place for them.
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Florida nor California will soften up on gas prices, too many roads to maintain..
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"we are to blame for keeping the 95+% recitivism...errr...re-election rate"
Too true. :(
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Originally posted by Delirium
I am completely against decreasing fuel tax or releasing any fuel from the National Reserve.
Part of me LIKES having the prices as they are, maybe it will be enough to finally encourage us to get away from an oil based economy a find alternative sources.
We should of woke up during the 70s gas shortage, but instead we are driving SUVs, some of which only get 10-15 miles per gallon (and some, amazingly less).
All of the above said, they should eliminate all the tax on all distillate fuels (diesel and heating oil). This way, the price of goods does not 'trickle down' to show the increased costs for fuel truckers are paying, it would allow the price of goods to remain constant and encourage the economy to grow.
Heating oil is also a distillate fuel and should not be taxed at this time, or only taxed after a certain number of gallons per year, for obvious reasons.
Agree:)
But in the 70's a wise man tried to get the country to see the light . His name was Carter. But because he was a dem his idea was shot down............Had our leaders only listened to him.
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Originally posted by Westy
A lot of lower income and the elderly will be eating meals of peanut butter and ritz crackers this winter for sure. Why? Because the rest of thier money will be sucked up by this profiteer driven "market" just to keep from freezing to death (literally). In the meantime record quarterly profits will continue to break the previous benchmarks.
I imagine this is where we'll see the neo-cons conveniently shove aside thier "Christian values" to invoke the name of Darwin and utter shallow words of "but that's capitalism and the free market."
Ummm Westy I think you missed that "Christian Values" were shoved aside quite some time ago. :(
And I have a picture of Jesus walking his pet dinosaur if you are interested:)
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Originally posted by Edbert
I thought you were asking for a federal or nationwide subsidy, if you just meant your state you are right I don't care.
I do care about the notion that tax RATES should vary based upon ANY criteria, everyone should pay the same rate no matter what. Variable rates was part of Marx's manifesto.
You are aware the we subsidize many industries? You do know that were it not for our military overseas portecting the oil companies interests they would not be raping us now? How about we just cap the profit margin for them? The nation is hurting and they are gouging us for their stock holders.Oil isnt an option it is a necessity. The obscene profits will not trickle down to us as this admin wants us to believe.
Or better yet how about we pay the same price Kuwait pays pre gallon.
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good thing we spilled all that blood for oil.... imagine where we would be otherwise.
lazs
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Originally posted by Silat
You are aware the we subsidize many industries? You do know that were it not for our military overseas portecting the oil companies interests they would not be raping us now? How about we just cap the profit margin for them? The nation is hurting and they are gouging us for their stock holders.Oil isnt an option it is a necessity. The obscene profits will not trickle down to us as this admin wants us to believe.
Or better yet how about we pay the same price Kuwait pays pre gallon.
yeah if bush were not a fool/in the pocket of the oil companies he would cap gas prices.
what a disaster the guy is.
(still though, I doubt Kerry would be any better)
Both parties suck.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Both parties suck.
Can I hear a...
AMEN!
I'm sick to death of only having 2 voices in our government.
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yeah if bush were not a fool/in the pocket of the oil companies he would cap gas prices.
Wow, can you get any dumber?
You do realize that if they cap gas prices, gas stations would stop selling it altogether.
I'd rather have expensive gas then no gas.
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This is supposed to be the new kinder gentler Oclub lazer, grow up.
They have capped them in the past and the world did not end.
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Umm, not everyone can afford to buy a new hybrid vehicle, Delirium. Im pretty sure a vast majority of the driving population is stuck with what they are driving until the payments are done.
I beleive the laws of youre states require the taxes to be posted at the pump, also.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
yeah if bush were not a fool/in the pocket of the oil companies he would cap gas prices.
what a disaster the guy is.
(still though, I doubt Kerry would be any better)
Both parties suck.
Thought Bush make his money in oil? Understandable that nothing is being done about the excess profits being made.
Does anyone remember the '70s oil crisis? Did the price rise as rapidly as it has now?
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Originally posted by LePaul
Umm, not everyone can afford to buy a new hybrid vehicle, Delirium.
Exactly... if they had realized the problem and worked to resolve it 30+ years ago, we wouldn't have to pay big bucks for a hybrid car that still has problems.
Everyone knew this problem was coming, and nothing was done.
Oh, and Silat, forget Carter... he was a trusting fool that lacked wisdom (but not intelligence) for the CIC position.
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Oh Lew lol you know I luv's ya bro, but really, how about we make the same 16k per year as kuwait's average income.
Or better yet how about we pay the same price Kuwait pays pre gallon.
You know better than this, don't pull the soundbites out for these guys.
Man, Albania had a $1,400.00 Annual Income, as an example, in 2000, but paid .90 cents a gallon as early as 2002. Weren't we up about $2.50 around then? I think as a nation, even the poorest in NO made a tad more than $1,400.00 per year. As a percentage of the average income, even the poorest of incomes, our buying power is Incredible.
Someone on the TV squaking about not having enough gas to evac, with diamond stud lip earrings, tatoos and expensive tennis shoes has a problem with fiscal management, that's not My problem.
Everyone is up in arms over the price of gasoline, but frankly, I just got back from a trip to Salt Lake from Sacramento this weekend. I paid Exactly $16.00 more in fuel than I did for the same trip last year.
Whoopy, I won $140.00 at Winnemucca and I'm up 12k in income from last year. 16 bucks? Who the flip cares, that's squat.
So the big evil oil companies are making a profit. They had the resources to get the refineries off the Gulf back up Far Faster than anyone expected. Admit it, everyone is stunned at the rapid rebuild. You can't do that on a welfare check, you need Cash, that comes from Profit, Profit is fuel and fuel drives an industrial machine. Starve it because it's "not fair" and you restrict the industrial engine and Nothing Moves.
Small flaw in the utopia of everyone should have everything they need for free. No one is going to work an oil field for "social gain" in a utopian world. They will all want to be artists, poets and singers. It takes Money to attract them to work in the fields, and profits to attract investment to Build the fields.
Jealousy over someone else making profit's is just wrong. Oil is not a necessity for existance, it's a comfort, a luxury. You can have housing with minimal power, burn candles and wood in your fireplace, barbque outside. You can get to work on Busses or a $25.00 Bike from Goodwill. China does it, their wonderful Socialist Society has proven that all will eat and work.
Sometimes I think people take luxury as a right, it's not, it's expensive. Buy into it if you want it.
You know what is stopping the hybrid cars and fuel cell technology? No Profit! They are still trying to find a way to make a Dime of the thing. The investment is Far too Huge to offset the cars. It's close, but the cost of fuel isn't the answer. That brings a huge amount of additional problems. Fuel sales will plummet, and with it, the cost to build the roads for all those nifty non pulluting vehicles.
Sound bites get alot of attention, and stir up the short sighted, but there is usually far more going on than most people have a clue about.
Oh, and if you want to talk hybrids and fuel cells, I'd love to. We have a new fuel cell partnership a mile from my house that is a fantastic facility. All the major auto manufacturers are in the lab making batteries that run off Water. The technology is absolutely Stunning, and...20 years away. But, it works.
Now, 20 years of research costing billions in investments. A battery with $20.00 bucks worth of actual material is going to be expensive. It's going to be a funny discussion when they talk about the obscene profits they are making selling that stupid battery for $15,960.00 , but someone is going to want their investment Back.
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Well shoot they are thinking about releasing them altogether here in Colorado and taxes are "only" 22 cents. The news reported Gov. Owens said the state makes approximately 22 billion or year or something off of gas taxes. Take it with a grain of salt and move on.
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delierium... are you saying that we could have had these hybrid cars 30 years ago? Wow... the euros have really been getting screwed then... they pay twice what we pay and allways have... they sure coulda used those hybrids back then...
30 years ago you couldn't even depend on a battery to turn over your big block when it got warmed up on a hot day.
As for the gas taxes... since none, or allmost none of it, goes to fixing the roads that we drive on.... you could cut the tax in half and the roads would not get any different care than they get right now.
lazs
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No, I'm not saying we would of had Hybrid cars but we could of had alot better hybrid cars we have now or some better alternative.
Instead, we waited... throwing more money at the Middle East while becoming slaves to OPEC, while making it worse driving not the huge V8s of the 70s but SUVs instead.
edit: The issue can be compared to a 300lb bride that decides to lose weight for the wedding the night before the wedding instead of 10 months earlier.
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As for the gas taxes... since none, or allmost none of it, goes to fixing the roads that we drive on.... you could cut the tax in half and the roads would not get any different care than they get right now.
I don't think that's true.
As of 2001, state federal and local gasoline taxes raised $46 billion, which is a small proportion of the overall roads budget.
In California, 47% of money raised by gasoline taxes went on state administered roads, 44.4% on local roads, 6.8% on mass transit and 1.8% on other things.
Source: http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publications/gastax.pdf
The figures for the amount raised sound about right, looking at the gasoline consumption figures for the US.
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I think the root problem is dependance on a foreign source for a vital resource. Sure it is cheap and why not use thiers up and not ours but......
As a national security policy it sucks.
Think about it if we did not depend on foriegn oil...how much wieght would the middle east pull in international affairs...I am not saying weather that would be right or wrong just amking an observation.
We should be pouring money into alternative fuels, not for enviormental reasons or any of the other stuff..but for 1 overriding reason..our nationa and way of life will be much safer when the fuel of our economy is not dependant on other countries.
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sorry nashwan... the state tax we pay is a not even half of the total.... the administration of the money is more than the actual repair in Kalifornia also... and.... why would any money go to public transportation? Overall.... a very small portion of the money is being spent on actually repairing, building and maintaining roads.
Also... Cal trans is one of the most wasteful agencies in the world.. I do not believe that you could find a contractor that could possibly be worse. Private contractors constantly cut cal trans costs for doing the same work in half or more..
delerium... I think you are wrong and guilty of wishful thinking... you can't rush the tech... Not to any great extent anyway... the hybrid cars of today are a compilation of a dozen major breakthroughs that simply did not exist 30 years ago... if they did.... by now you would have home computers that could get you off with a lap dance and 2 oz batteries that would power a million candlepower flashlight for a year on one charge.l
lazs
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Oh... and nashwan... since you like charts and graphs so much (sorry mine isn't from a lefty site)
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2893/is_3_20/ai_77608442
This explains the federal tax on gasoline (about 50-70% of the tax we pay) It is more than half used for things other than roads.
combined with the more than 10% of state taxes that are used for things other than roads.... you have the vast majority of this tax money (state and federal combined)being used for things other than the roads we drive on.. this doesn't even take into account the inherant wastefulness of government run programs this large.
The real figure is probly close to 75% waste or monies being misspent for things other than what they are collected for.
lazs
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Even Nashwan's site says that Texas leads the nation by diverting more than 25% of the gas-tax recipts to things other than roads, the highest percentage in the nation according to the document he posted. I'm not whining about that, our republican-lead government (both houses and the governor) has been purchased lock stock and barrel by corporate interests.
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yep and those are for the state portion of the taxes... the federal portion is even worse. oddly... the states that bring in the least money in taxes (less consumption) seem to spend more of it on their roads..
point is... in any tax based program most of the money will be siphoned off to hide money spent on more government... They need to because you wouldn't vote for a tax that you knew only a tiny portion of would go to whatever they calimed it went to.
If all taxe monies were locked into enterprise funds or seperate accounts with pubolic accounting then the waste would only be in the burocracy.... still a huge amount but an improvement...
If no new unfunded mandates (programs) could be proprossed it would bring government growth down to a managable level...
Lots of good sounding and wasteful programs are mandated just to grow government... no funding is available so...... they simply rob some other programs funds and then say that the other program needs more money.
there is no accountability.
lazs
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Has anyone ever noticed that when the price for Crude Oil raises by a dollar per barrel, our price at the pump raises by $.10-$.15? And then when the price drops by a dollar, the price we pay for gas only drops by $.05?
The media is interesting, because they're reporting on the price of oil futures a lot of the time. Right now, the price per barrel is close to being the same as it was before Katrina (i -beleive, i should go check but I haven't got the time right now. If I'm wrong on that someone tell me!). And yet, we're paying amazing prices for gas. Because the -futures- for crude oil went up.
It makes sense, and it doesn't make sense all at the same time.
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Originally posted by kesolei
Has anyone ever noticed that when the price for Crude Oil raises by a dollar per barrel, our price at the pump raises by $.10-$.15? And then when the price drops by a dollar, the price we pay for gas only drops by $.05?
Have you noticed that when the barrel price goes up, that the price at the pumps goes up even though the gas in the station's storage tanks was bought at the lower barrel price? :eek:
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Have you noticed that when the barrel price goes up, that the price at the pumps goes up even though the gas in the station's storage tanks was bought at the lower barrel price? :eek:
Yea, I have. I can almost understand that though, because they're going to have to buy the gas at the higher price later... But.... They still shouldn't be raising the price on stuff already in their tanks.
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Originally posted by kesolei
They still shouldn't be raising the price on stuff already in their tanks.
In a capitalist system not only "should" they not, but doing so could put their profits in jeapordy. But as I said earlier in this thread...the pump-gas situation in no way exhibits the effects of market forces.
Our elected officials (both sides of the aisle, don't kid yourself) have rigged the system through regulations to allow the existing oil companies to charge whatever price they like and the consumer's only choice is to stop using gas altogether. Those consumers who don't like unemployment, or don't want to freeze to death decide to keep buying it.
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auction your vote off and use the proceeds to buy stocks in exxon.