Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on September 12, 2005, 09:54:31 AM
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Has anyone been following the role of Gretna, LA in the saga of Katrina? Gretna is a predominantly white suburb located immediately across the river (south) from New Orleans. Following the flooding, Gretna still had electricity and utilities.
The chief of police of this small town then ordered the bridge from New Orleans sealed against evacuees, and his police fired guns over the heads of anyone trying to leave the chaos of downtown NO, forcing them back. Of those forced back, it's unknown how many died of dehydration or any of the other things killing people in the flood ravaged city.
When pressed for why they would do this, the police chief (and his officers) said that they didn't want Gretna to become "another New Orleans", and then implied that they wanted to keep the black refugees out.
It's incredible to compare the open armed, kind hearted response of Texas to this callous disregard for human life. Babies and old people were dying in squallor within view of a town that had everything needed to keep them alive, and that may be one of the biggest tragedies yet.
References:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311784.ece
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050909-21423100-bc-us-katrina-bridge-crn.xml
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10emt.html
http://about.upi.com/products/perspectives/UPI-20050908-112433-4907R
If there's something to this story that's missing, please let me know. If what happens is really like the above, I'm heartbroken. I want to hear that it was not what it sounds like.
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Why don't you just blame Bush. If he'd cut his vacation shorter he would have prevented this.
Honestly I read about this and didn't quite understand this. But, if you go back in time to last week with all the sensational news reports about lootings, shootings and such, I would have been inclined to keep them (evacuees) out of my town as well.
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Racism? Shocking!
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I`m sure raider will be in any minute to set all this straight. :)
On a side note.......A guy one of my daughter`s works with went to N.O. to get his Dad out.
His comment to her was that what we are seeing in the news coverage doesn`t reflect what was actualy going on there.
He said it was much, much worse.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Why don't you just blame Bush. If he'd cut his vacation shorter he would have prevented this.
Respectfully, I disagree. What, exactly, do you think he could have done differently? It's not like the job of the president is to go and start working a handpump or anything, seems to me like he did fine. He assigned the group responsible to do the work they were supposed to, and when it became clear that they were falling down on the job, he replaced the management with someone else who might do better. I'm no Bush fan, but I think his specific response has been pretty good so far.
In response to your other point, I guess the difference is that when I see someone who needs help, I try and help even if I know that they're imperfect humans. For every thug that comes over, there's probably a hundred or more good people. I'd think it was worth it to help all those people, wouldn't you?
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From the NYTimes:
A suburban police officer angrily ordered about 200 people to abandon an encampment between the highways near the bridge. The officer then confiscated their food and water, the four witnesses said. The incidents took place in the first days after the storm last week, they said.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Respectfully, I disagree. What, exactly, do you think he could have done differently? It's not like the job of the president is to go and start working a handpump or anything, seems to me like he did fine. He assigned the group responsible to do the work they were supposed to, and when it became clear that they were falling down on the job, he replaced the management with someone else who might do better. I'm no Bush fan, but I think his specific response has been pretty good so far.
In response to your other point, I guess the difference is that when I see someone who needs help, I try and help even if I know that they're imperfect humans. For every thug that comes over, there's probably a hundred or more good people. I'd think it was worth it to help all those people, wouldn't you?
Chair the first comment was sarcasm.
I understand what you are trying to say in your second post but I have to offer this. In situations like this I think of lifguarding. One of the first rules of being a life guard is really that the life guard comes first. If the victom in advertantly tries to drown the guard during the rescue the guard is now useless to save other potential victoms.
I wasn't there and don't know what's going on there but all I can say is the town might ahve been thinking they could have saved some people but it would kill the city at a cost they were not willing to bare.
I can't fault situations like this and of some of the looting. When humans go into survival mode it is no different than a herd of wild animals.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I wasn't there and don't know what's going on there but all I can say is the town might ahve been thinking they could have saved some people but it would kill the city at a cost they were not willing to bare.
I can't fault situations like this and of some of the looting. When humans go into survival mode it is no different than a herd of wild animals.
I guess I should play devils advocate here. Are you arguing that the town has decided that some intact buildings are more important than human life? Could you itemize how many broken windows it takes to exceed the worthiness of the survival of an infant? How many stolen iPods from the local Best Buy does it take before the cost-equation favors letting someone die of dehydration?
I think life could be a lot simpler if we just had some monetary figures on how much human life is worth, that way we could be much more efficient about decided when it's just not worth helping anymore.
Don't get me wrong, if the world ended and the survival of my family meant that I had to protect my isolated community from desperate people trying to get at my supplies, I'd shoot first and ask forgiveness later. But... the world has not ended, and the folks in Grenta could have saved many lives WHILE they survived too and waited until replacement supplies came in from the rest of the unaffected country.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I guess I should play devils advocate here. Are you arguing that the town has decided that some intact buildings are more important than human life? Could you itemize how many broken windows it takes to exceed the worthiness of the survival of an infant? How many stolen iPods from the local Best Buy does it take before the cost-equation favors letting someone die of dehydration?
I think life could be a lot simpler if we just had some monetary figures on how much human life is worth, that way we could be much more efficient about decided when it's just not worth helping anymore.
Don't get me wrong, if the world ended and the survival of my family meant that I had to protect my isolated community from desperate people trying to get at my supplies, I'd shoot first and ask forgiveness later. But... the world has not ended, and the folks in Grenta could have saved many lives WHILE they survived too and waited until replacement supplies came in from the rest of the unaffected country.
I was thinking more on the lines of they may not have the supplies needed to care for as many evacuees
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I was thinking more on the lines of they may not have the supplies needed to care for as many evacuees
I guess this argument reminds of me a conversation I had once with someone regarding the lottery. "I would rather not win this $10 million prize", this person stated knowingly, "because the government would take about half of it away in taxes."
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I guess this argument reminds of me a conversation I had once with someone regarding the lottery. "I would rather not win this $10 million prize", this person stated knowingly, "because the government would take about half of it away in taxes."
So True,
All I can say is I'm glad it's not me that's making those kinds of decisions. All I can GUESS is that the mayor or community leader was just thinking of his people first. I can't imagine that just because they had power and some utilities the place was "pleasantville usa"
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I can't fault the logic even as I decry the morality. You make some good points, and I understand their motivations, but I remain frustrated.
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I'm more than frustrated. These guys weren't defending their homes, they were blocking others' escape from a disaster. The choice wasnt between the town helping victims vs. the town lsoing everything - it was fear, not reality that closed the bridge.
Gunslinger's thoughts reflect the best things these guys could have been thinking, but I wonder if their actions were that jsutifiable -- and I suspect that stereotypes of "those folk across the bridge" played a bigger role than a man's right to defend his home. Nobody had supplies to care for those people, but the guardians of the bridge didnt want to even share an electical outlet...and some peopel in NO died from lack of power (oxygen concentrators, insulin preservation require power).
I mean, even IF there were some dangerous people wanting to get across the bridge the majority were jsut poor people, looking for safety.
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Originally posted by Simaril
These guys weren't defending their homes, they were blocking others' escape from a disaster.
It that is true, there needs to be an investigation and, if possible, some sort of accountability.
I don't know the laws about deliberately blocking a public thouroughfare during an evacuation but surely there must be something.
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I wasn't there, nor am I really defending what happened, but...
It's possible that they were keeping a "Type" of people from entering their neighborhoods. Or at least they thought as much.
The people being black is an erroneous fact.
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They were keeping all pedestrians out. The people who reported this were a small group of white tourists accompanied by a couple hundred black people who, after they were warned off with gunfire, established an encampment in a dry spot a mile away that was subsequently disbanded by a police officer who confiscated their food and water.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
They were keeping all pedestrians out. The people who reported this were a small group of white tourists accompanied by a couple hundred black people who, after they were warned off with gunfire, established an encampment in a dry spot a mile away that was subsequently disbanded by a police officer who confiscated their food and water.
That really sums up where the "defenders" were coming from, doesnt it -- If they really took food and water from victims of tragedy, jsut so the victims would leave "their" neighborhood, I cant imagine a legitimate justification...
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most would be leery about letting inner city folks "invade" their neighborhood
don't know about you, but I do not live in an evacuation center...\\
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I was watching Fox last week and Shep was reporting live from a bridge and was saying that armed officers were keeping people from crossing the bridge out of NO.
He really seemed to be losing it. The people in the studio would ask him a 30 second question and he would reply "I don't know", or "yes/no". He really seemed at wit's end.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
I was watching Fox last week and Shep was reporting live from a bridge and was saying that armed officers were keeping people from crossing the bridge out of NO.
He really seemed to be losing it. The people in the studio would ask him a 30 second question and he would reply "I don't know", or "yes/no". He really seemed at wit's end.
let's get one thing clear this bridge dose not lead OUTSIDE the city, it heads south towards the coast.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=gretna,+LA&spn=0.165381,0.275602&hl=en
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It leads AWAY from death by dehydration too.
An article on the subject that criticizes the mayor and governor: http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=2551
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Originally posted by Chairboy
It leads AWAY from death by dehydration too.
An article on the subject that criticizes the mayor and governor: http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=2551
after looking at the google Katrina sattilite images I'd have to agree with him. There doesn't look like any other passible way out of the city.
Also re-enforces why federal aid took so long to get there (superdome).
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Originally posted by Eagler
most would be leery about letting inner city folks "invade" their neighborhood
don't know about you, but I do not live in an evacuation center...\\
Who does?
This is much more than being careful; being sensible and careful is entirely reasonable. Why couldnt they explain that they wouldnt allow weapons, so evacuees had to consent to searches? Why couldnt they accept a limited number of evacuees?
"Inner City" people are just people. Some are hoodlums, but most are simply poor, without the social/educational/economic resources to escape their neighborhoods. (No, I'm not a liberal -- I've just been around the people of neighborhoods like these enough to see.)
Human beings were suffering. You dont have to help everyone who needs it, because you cant -- but you CAN start helping somebody. These folks were there, and they were repulsed by demonstration of force.
Civilization starts when humans work together to help each other. This event is just as selfish, just as uncivilised, as looting and rampaging in NO.
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Gretna Fear Meets Callousness
not so sure it was callousness, if indeed the report is correct. fear is a simpler explanation. and we know that when society breaks down, our evolutionary assets kick in. It will happen everytime you see this situation, so we shouldn't be heartbroken about it. Maybe we should plan for it.
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If NO had been successfully evacuated and emptied, do you think that the authorities would have allowed people from Gretna to come to New Orleans and loot it for food and water?
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Originally posted by Eagler
most would be leery about letting inner city folks "invade" their neighborhood
don't know about you, but I do not live in an evacuation center...\\
Are you being serious?
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Simaril, not everyone is 100% republican or democrat.
It is however, a liberal idea that one cannot escape the classes that are set upon you at birth.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Simaril, not everyone is 100% republican or democrat.
It is however, a liberal idea that one cannot escape the classes that are set upon you at birth.
It's absolutely possible to have social mobility out of poverty, and its also true that many who have failed to take responsibilty for their lives end up blaming society.
However, its also unarguable that some are truly disadvantaged in the most literal sense of the word. I learned responsibility and hard work from my family; I had resources and support for my education; and my "subculture" reinforced socially effective life strategies. Would I be where I am if my only choice was an inner city "warehouse 'em" school, if studying hard was viewed as rejecting my people, and if I had to work as a teen for family sustenence rather than spending money?
I dont know.
I do know that the urban culture people I know through my work are often good folk, short on polish but fundamentally just solid folk. I've seen people who could have done better make stupid choices, I've seen teens screw up their lives in effort to fit in with their peers. But, I've also seen poor people who've worked hard all their lives just to keep body and soul together.
Poor doesnt always mean irresponsible.
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Your story is BS. First of all the bridge (Crescent City Connection)exits in Orleans parish, not Gretna. Gretna police have no authority there. Orleans Parish police (NOPD) stopped people from crossing the bridge, and 80% of NOPD is black.
And you want to know something else? They stopped me three times (three days) from entering the West Bank of New Orleans, and I'm white.
Just another example of creatively writing the news.
Edit just a note - there were an extraordinary amount of rumors spread during and after the hurricane. Most of the rumors were started by the news media.
Here's a few..
Harry Lee (Jefferson parish sheriff) was killed
Eddie Compass (NOPD chief) was killed
A coast Guard Helicopter was shot down
Oakwood Mall burned to the ground
Explosions were heard before the levee breech
ALL BS, all reported by the media.
And even after weeks and weeks of reporting on the storm and New Orleans, the news media seems incapable of realizing there are two destinct parts of New Orleans - the east bank and the west bank. Thats because as room full of reporters couldn't scrape up a double digit IQ.
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You say that there are those who don't succeed, so they end up blaming society. But then you go and blame society for those who don't succeed. You say that there is nothing that they can do.
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Originally posted by BTW
Your story is BS. First of all the bridge (Crescent City Connection)exits in Orleans parish, not Gretna. Gretna police have no authority there. Orleans Parish police (NOPD) stopped people from crossing the bridge, and 80% of NOPD is black.
They had the Police Chief of Gretna, Aurthur Lawson, on CNN tonight. He admitted that he had ordered his officers to close the bridge and turn away anyone trying to cross. He said. "Our city was locked down and secured, for the sake of the citizens that left their valuables here to be protected by us."
If what you say is true and he was out of his jurisdiction with no authority to close the bridge, then I hope he and his officers are held accountable for their actions.
Sorry...that is a piss poor excuse. HWY 90 and over that bridge was the only sure route for supplies to get in and people to get out of NOLA during the peak of the flood. I would not have blamed the crowd if they'd rioted and tossed those guys off the bridge.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
They had the Police Chief of Gretna, Aurthur Lawson, on CNN tonight. He admitted that he had ordered his officers to close the bridge and turn away anyone trying to cross. He said. "Our city was locked down and secured, for the sake of the citizens that left their valuables here to be protected by us."
If what you say is true and he was out of his jurisdiction with no authority to close the bridge, then I hope he and his officers are held accountable for their actions.
Sorry...that is a piss poor excuse. HWY 90 and over that bridge was the only sure route for supplies to get in and people to get out of NOLA during the peak of the flood. I would not have blamed the crowd if they'd rioted and tossed those guys off the bridge.
And I would have. Half the anarchy was created by the idiots in New Orleans, the other half was created by Mayor Nagin's piss poor leadership.
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The zoo wasnt the only place the animals escaped from.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You say that there are those who don't succeed, so they end up blaming society. But then you go and blame society for those who don't succeed. You say that there is nothing that they can do.
Not really -- reread it.
We are all responsible for our choices, but its simply true that opportunity isnt equal for all. But I strongly suspect that the limiting factors are less societal (based on government, rules, programs) than subcultural (based on the belief systems we grow up taking for granted).
Think of that old Brando movie, On the Waterfront. Brando was a thug's enforcer, living in the past ("I coulda been a contenda") -- but in the end he made a dangerous choice because it was the right thing to do. Making the right choice didnt make his life better, it didnt get him a house in the suburbs or a better job. He did what was right, and it defined WHO he was, not WHERE he was.
My point is that you can make the right choices and end up in a bad spot. It may be politically correct conservatism to blame the poor as societal failures getting their just reward, but it doesnt make me a liberal to see the situation with a bit more complexity.
BTW, no sarcasm intended, gotta love a BBS where a hint of liberal thinking gets pounced upon...its a refreshing change from the culture at large!:aok
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Originally posted by crowMAW
They had the Police Chief of Gretna, Aurthur Lawson, on CNN tonight. He admitted that he had ordered his officers to close the bridge and turn away anyone trying to cross. He said. "Our city was locked down and secured, for the sake of the citizens that left their valuables here to be protected by us."
If what you say is true and he was out of his jurisdiction with no authority to close the bridge, then I hope he and his officers are held accountable for their actions.
Sorry...that is a piss poor excuse. HWY 90 and over that bridge was the only sure route for supplies to get in and people to get out of NOLA during the peak of the flood. I would not have blamed the crowd if they'd rioted and tossed those guys off the bridge.
That is disgusting. It's property over people clear as day. "for the sake of the citizens that left their valuables here to be protected by us." So much for being a good neighbor or even acting as a decent human being. That might be the sorriest thing I have heard yet.
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Sorry..maybe I'm callous..but If i lived in a nice town, and people who acted like animals (white, black, hispanic, etc) tried to come my way, I'd grab a gun and help defend the bridge. Sorry, but riff raff is riff raff, regardless of if they felt abandoned in NO, the behavior of the people there was unnacceptable and they would not be welcome in my community.
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Yep if they want to smear poop over walls, loot, and kill each other, let them do it in the dry parts of their own town like they did.
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The first exit off the bridge leads to dry ground and Orleans parish - check map quest. But the people crossing the bridge skipped the first exit - they were headed for Oakwood mall in Gretna. The media isn't gonna report that tidbit.
Damn the truth - make a good story.
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Originally posted by BTW
The first exit off the bridge leads to dry ground and Orleans parish - check map quest. But the people crossing the bridge skipped the first exit - they were headed for Oakwood mall in Gretna.
Hmmm...the folks they were interviewing could have been lying. But one of them said, "We got to the top of the bridge. They stopped us with shotguns." Is the exit at the end of the bridge or mid-span?
The interview I watched had video of the site. The witness was indicating that there was an incline up the ramp to the bridge, which was shown on the video. She explained that the officers were just on the other side as they climbed up the incline and on to the bridge superstructure.
It appears from maps of the area that the exit ramp is after you cross the bridge. The witnesses are indicating that they were stopped before they could cross.
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Don't worry crow, BTW's already made up his mind. I'm sure he's comfortable in his reality that's filled with swarms of 'darkies'.
Unless he can offer another explanation for his vehemence...
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Unless he can offer another explanation for his vehemence...
Maybe first hand experience.....but I'm just guessing here.
Those dirty cops protecting their community! :huh
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Chairboy, there were gangs looting stores three hours after the storm. They weren't looting out of need. They stayed for the soul sake of stealing. They looted every part of the CBD and were crossing the river to Oakwood Mall. And they weren't just looting, they were burning down the places they looted. Sorry you feel the police shouldn't intervene.
I wouldn't hesitate to blow a looters brains out, I don't care the race .
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Maybe first hand experience.....but I'm just guessing here.
Those dirty cops protecting their community! :huh
Sounds like that police chief was doing the job that the city he works for asked him to do. We'll see if he's re-elected. My guess is that he will be by the people that he is charged to protect.
From how the media showed how bad things were down there, it sounds to me like he was protecting a secure area on the border of hell.
So, if that crowd that positioned itself near his position started to grow, he might have had to do more than shoot over their heads, if they decided to rush them.
Why he didn't offer to take in children and babies..? Don't know.... I'm sure a lot of people down there during that time had to make a lot of very diffecult decisions.
His town was secured by some tough choices..... the mayor of NO failed his city... this guy didn't.
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Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:
Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't?
I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:
Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't?
I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.
I`m gonna be sorry I went here with you, but here goes.
First of all I don`t see the issue being discussed as a white/black/red/yellow thing. it`s a people thing. There were people of all color involved I believe.
I believe every person has a right to protect their personal and private property. I don`t believe this was the case in this instance. Forbidding a group of people passage on a public road IMHO is wrong. The fact that they were trying to leave a disaster area just makes it worse. The manpower could have been used to "help" the people get out would have seen to have been the way to go.
Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists.
Not hard at all, I would say. Maybe it stems from the facts of what we have witnessed and the law of averages. A large percentage of the time when we see rioting and looting on a large scale we see black people doing it. Sad, but true.
It`s easy to understand why the black people see the white cops as racist. That`s what has been taught for generations, especialy in the south.
We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food.
I would think that most of the people who read/watched this would also consider the source of this. That being the media. The media will put whatever spin on things that produces the most "sensationlism" and I hope the majority of folks understand this. Remember I said "I hope" because sometimes I wonder if common sense isn`t a lost art. :)
Does white/black racism still exist and is it still a strong factor in our times? You betcha it does. It`s alive and doing quite well. It is also most definitely a two way street. I see more racism from blacks towards whites than I do the other way around in this area.
A reasonable human would hope that in a catastrophic situation as this that racism, prejudices and differences would be set aside on both sides of the issue. It doesn`t seem to happen though and I don`t see anything changing in the near future.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:
Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't?
I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.
because for decades black people have been taught by the left that their poverty, problems, highschool drop out rates, single parent rates, ect are not their fault but the fault of others and racism by the white man.
A group that never has to shell out any personal responsibility will never succeed in life. When something doesn't go their way they can and do pull the race card.
Blacks have cried wolf when it comes to racism for too long now and whites aren't going to put up with it.
I don't think all blacks are this way but the majority of black leadership promotes this very Idea. Long gone are the days of "get to the back of the bus boy" but yet very simple things get called racism and it really downgrades the word all together.
If black leaders would spend as much time telling blacks to 1. Graduate High school 2. Don't have kids before you are married 3. Don't get married untill you are out of poverty, as they did pointing out all the "sub-concious" racism well they'd be better off today ten fold. Yes, shun Bill Cosby for speaking the truth and keep feeding those lies to the people.
Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food
no we didn't:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.
Why would I try to have a mindset of someone else that is trying to blame me of something? I know what the heck I'm thinking.
Just look at the situation that happened there.....
NO gets flattened and who gets blamed? It wasn't the BLACK Mayor of the town that was totally unprepared for it... it was the WHITE president being blamed by the BLACK mayor. Why don't you try to figure out why it always comes down to Blacks blaming Whites instead... even in a situation where a BLACK was incharge.....
btw... I don't here the Mayor taking any responsiblity at all..... while the Pres just did for his share.
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Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:
Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't? - MT
Maybe its time to ask ourselves this question, MT:
Why do a majority of black people believe OJ Simpson is innocent while most white people believe he is guilty?
The truth, in both cases, exists independantly from any group's particular bias.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
no we didn't:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp
Guns, I don`t put much faith in snopes. Sometimes they put a little spin on things and discover the "truth" they want to discover.
Either way you might want to have another look at the link you posted. :)
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You know...I just don't care...maybe I have a hard heart, but the problems down there are not my problems, I don't know why you guys so violently defend your sides of an issue that probrably didn't effect you.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
no we didn't:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp
The reporter put looted under the black kid even though he admits the kid had taken the stuff out of a GROCERY STORE. He didnt take it from Circuit City the kid was taking food. That is hardly looting. There was a double standard down there and it was obvious as hell on tv and in newspapers.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
You know...I just don't care...maybe I have a hard heart, but the problems down there are not my problems, I don't know why you guys so violently defend your sides of an issue that probrably didn't effect you.
You planning on or have you allready moved to another country?
What went on in NO during this period and continues going on has, does and will effect everyone in this country. It will for many years to come.
I know, here in Texas, it is allready having a great impact on our state.
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Originally posted by Raider179
The reporter put looted under the black kid even though he admits the kid had taken the stuff out of a GROCERY STORE. He didnt take it from Circuit City the kid was taking food. That is hardly looting. There was a double standard down there and it was obvious as hell on tv and in newspapers.
Try again raiderboy:
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."
Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting.
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water — we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Guns, I don`t put much faith in snopes. Sometimes they put a little spin on things and discover the "truth" they want to discover.
Either way you might want to have another look at the link you posted. :)
See post above
EDIT: and that's not snope's spin that's a direct quote from something else.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Try again raiderboy:
Do you not even read what you posted???
says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store.
Notice the words "GROCERY STORE"
I don't consider taking stuff from a grocery store looting under these circumstances. Like I said if it was circuit city ok then it's looting but a Winn-Dixie pffft. Sometimes the level of compassion shown by some of you is astounding.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Do you not even read what you posted???
says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store.
Notice the words "GROCERY STORE"
I don't consider taking stuff from a grocery store looting under these circumstances. Like I said if it was circuit city ok then it's looting but a Winn-Dixie pffft. Sometimes the level of compassion shown by some of you is astounding.
DID YOU NOT EVEN READ WHAT I POSTED
They are talking about BOTH photos taken by two DIFERENT photographers from TWO DIFFERENT agencies.
Photo ONE http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina1.jpg
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."
Hence the picture of the black person. They SAW him take the stuff. Food or not they called it looting wich by definition it is.
photo TWO http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina3.jpg
Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting
The conclusion I draw from this is not one of racism but of perspective. If he saw the white people looting (IE actually taking the stuff) he would have called them looters as well.
Again I don't fault anyone for looting food and water but by definition it's still looting. Again keep crying wolf about racism and see what the dangerous reprocutions are.
Try again Raiderboy!
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http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=loot
Main Entry: 1loot
Pronunciation: 'lüt
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi lut; akin to Sanskrit luntati he plunders
1 : goods usually of considerable value taken in war : SPOILS
2 : something held to resemble goods of value seized in war: as a : something appropriated illegally often by force or violence b : illicit gains by public officials c : MONEY
3 : the action of looting
synonym see SPOIL
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
DID YOU NOT EVEN READ WHAT I POSTED
They are talking about BOTH photos taken by two DIFERENT photographers from TWO DIFFERENT agencies.
Hence the picture of the black person. They SAW him take the stuff. Food or not they called it looting wich by definition it is.
The conclusion I draw from this is not one of racism but of perspective. If he saw the white people looting (IE actually taking the stuff) he would have called them looters as well.
Again I don't fault anyone for looting food and water but by definition it's still looting. Again keep crying wolf about racism and see what the dangerous reprocutions are.
Try again Raiderboy!
It was a black kid leaving a grocery store after a huge disaster. Not some gang-banger leaving footlocker with 50 pairs of shoes. I guess you can't understand the difference.
I see someone doing what they have to do to survive, you see a petty criminal.
They also saw the white couple standing outside the store catching stuff as it floated out the door. You gonna tell me that is not stealing as per your definition?
I don't have to try again, You have shown you have no compassion for those trapped in NO.
Glad you are not down here helping GunSmoker you'd probably shoot someone for making off with a loaf of bread and then say it was a looter. Really nice guy.
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loot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lt)
n.
Valuables pillaged in time of war; spoils.
Stolen goods.
Informal. Goods illicitly obtained, as by bribery.
Informal. Things of value, such as gifts, received on one occasion.
Slang. Money.
v. loot·ed, loot·ing, loots
v. tr.
To pillage; spoil.
To take as spoils; steal.
looting
n : plundering during riots or in wartime [syn: robbery]
Eitehr way he's looting. I suppose you guys with the crystal balls out there know what's in the black bag?
Either way this is pointless. I posted this to counter MT's and other liberal assertions that race had somthing to do with the caption......the photographers say otherwise....
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=loot
Main Entry: 1loot
Pronunciation: 'lüt
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi lut; akin to Sanskrit luntati he plunders
1 : goods usually of considerable value taken in war : SPOILS
2 : something held to resemble goods of value seized in war: as a : something appropriated illegally often by force or violence b : illicit gains by public officials c : MONEY
3 : the action of looting
synonym see SPOIL
well he obviously has no clue on anything
The Longstanding Criminal Law Defense Of Necessity
The law allows people to use the defense of necessity to commit acts that would be criminal if there was no necessity.
Yes, some victims of Hurricane Katrina stole. It was not their property and it was a crime: theft. But necessity is a defense.
Of course, there are certain restrictions. You cannot kill another person and invoke the defense of necessity - no matter what the circumstances might be. But you may commit burglary or theft to protect yourself from death or serious bodily harm.
There are limitations on the defense, however: There has to be an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm. That threat has to be caused by nature, not man-made (and especially, not created by the individual invoking the defense). There can be no reasonable alternative means to prevent the impending threat, other than the theft.
And finally, the individual is only permitted to do what is needed to ward off the impending threat; the necessity of stealing bread or baby food is not a license to steal books and magazines, too.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Eitehr way he's looting. I suppose you guys with the crystal balls out there know what's in the black bag?
Either way this is pointless. I posted this to counter MT's and other liberal assertions that race had somthing to do with the caption......the photographers say otherwise....
It's not looting if its neccesary for survival.
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Originally posted by Raider179
It was a black kid leaving a grocery store after a huge disaster. Not some gang-banger leaving footlocker with 50 pairs of shoes. I guess you can't understand the difference.
I see someone doing what they have to do to survive, you see a petty criminal.
They also saw the white couple standing outside the store catching stuff as it floated out the door. You gonna tell me that is not stealing as per your definition?
I don't have to try again, You have shown you have no compassion for those trapped in NO.
Glad you are not down here helping GunSmoker you'd probably shoot someone for making off with a loaf of bread and then say it was a looter. Really nice guy.
so you are saying the photgraphs are completly related to race and not what the ONHAND EYEWITNESSED photographers say.
I say it's not racial
You say re-read it
I do and say it's not racial
You say they weren't looters cause they were taking food
Again I say it's not racial and some looting is acceptable.
Where else do you want to spin this argument. Or do you really have the gall to disagree with the poeple that took the pictures and captioned them based on eye witness accounts
and again do you know what's in the black bag?
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Originally posted by Raider179
It's not looting if its neccesary for survival.
no it's called acceptable looting. If you take something that doesnt belong to you it's still called stealing. even if you stole it to survive.....that's called extenuating circumstances
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I agree guns..EVERYBODY that had ANYTHING they did not pay forr in their possesion is a LOOTER..what these guys fail to understand is the easy point you are trying to make which is the photos were taken by and captioned by TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE that work for DIFFERENT agencies who put their OWN point of view on them...but no you can't talk any sense into these people that belive that the racial attitudes are still the same or worse than they were in the period between the end of the War between the states and the civil rights movemnet.
I don't know..I'm not seeing it in here anywhere
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Why delete your post Godzilla. That was accurate and well said. Of course Raider will choose to completly ignore it and make up his on facts based on assumptions of people that weren't even there.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
so you are saying the photgraphs are completly related to race and not what the ONHAND EYEWITNESSED photographers say.
Bingo.
Your onhand witnesses saw the same thing. They just reported it differently. 1 was a black kid who took from a grocery store. The 2nd was a white couple who waited outside the doors of a grocery store for stuff to float out to them. Not a bit of difference except color.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I agree guns..EVERYBODY that had ANYTHING they did not pay forr in their possesion is a LOOTER..what these knuckleheads fail to understand is the easy point you are trying to make which is the photos were taken by and captioned by TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE that work for DIFFERENT agencies who put their OWN point of view on them...but no you can't talk any sense into these people that belive that the racial attitudes are still the same or worse than they were in the period between the end of the War between the states and the civil rights movemnet.
I think EVERYONE understands it's by 2 different photographers numbnuts. It's reflection on how we(as a society) see 2 similar events so differently. One is searching for food and the other is a looter. You do the math.
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"numbnuts"??
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Originally posted by Raider179
I think EVERYONE understands it's by 2 different photographers numbnuts. .
Why do you have to be insulting? No better way to make your point? Better watch out, your maturity level is showing.:aok
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Originally posted by Hangtime
"numbnuts"??
yup. I have to agree in his math 1+1 might equal 2 depending on which one is black and which one is white
"on hand witnesses saw the same thing" Yup two different people reported seeing two different events in two totally different locations yet it was the "same thing"
Again Raider what's in the black bag?
(http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina1.jpg)
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Why do you have to be insulting? No better way to make your point? Better watch out, your maturity level is showing.:aok
point???? he has a point????? since when????? ;)
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top of his head. since birth.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Why do you have to be insulting? No better way to make your point? Better watch out, your maturity level is showing.:aok
Insult for insult, you called us knuckleheads, I called you numbnuts.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yup. I have to agree in his math 1+1 might equal 2 depending on which one is black and which one is white
"on hand witnesses saw the same thing" Yup two different people reported seeing two different events in two totally different locations yet it was the "same thing"
Again Raider what's in the black bag?
(http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina1.jpg)
Not sure, but you can clearly see a package of SOFT DRINKS under his arm.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I agree guns..EVERYBODY that had ANYTHING they did not pay forr in their possesion is a LOOTER..what these guys fail to understand is the easy point you are trying to make which is the photos were taken by and captioned by TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE that work for DIFFERENT agencies who put their OWN point of view on them...but no you can't talk any sense into these people that belive that the racial attitudes are still the same or worse than they were in the period between the end of the War between the states and the civil rights movemnet.
where did I say knucleheads?
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Originally posted by ASTAC
where did I say knucleheads?
You edited your post, but luckily I quoted you. Man that is really weak bro. At least have the spine to stand behind what you say instead of editing and then LYING about it.
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it's the voices.. the voices told him you were thinking 'knuckleheads', so it's not his fault.
It's the voices talk to me too... they're saying "raider is a pinhead.. a piiiiinheaaaaad.."
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Originally posted by Raider179
You edited your post, but luckily I quoted you. Man that is really weak bro. At least have the spine to stand behind what you say instead of editing and then LYING about it.
I'm just messin' with ya..because it's just soooo easy
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Originally posted by Hangtime
it's the voices.. the voices told him you were thinking 'knuckleheads', so it's not his fault.
It's the voices talk to me too... they're saying "raider is a pinhead.. a piiiiinheaaaaad.."
sure buddy. I know your no sherlock holmes but it doesnt take much of a genius to look and see what he did.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I'm just messin' with ya..because it's just soooo easy
If I know what happened how is it messin with me? but glad to know your not that dishonest or dumb. :)
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Originally posted by Raider179
sure buddy. I know your no sherlock holmes but it doesnt take much of a genius to look and see what he did.
:lol You see I completely diverted your attention away from the conversation. No spine..no I don't think so...just a sense of humor..you should get one..they are fun.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Not sure, but you can clearly see a package of SOFT DRINKS under his arm.
so he clearly could be a looter like the guy that saw him that WAS THERE but you don't know for sure.
You are just assuming this is a racial thing then?
I'd go with the person that took the picture's assesment over yours.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
so he clearly could be a looter like the guy that saw him that WAS THERE but you don't know for sure.
You are just assuming this is a racial thing then?
I'd go with the person that took the picture's assesment over yours.
I'm sure you would. So this photographer who shot this picture and saw him looting in the store and this is the worst picture he got of the kid stealing? Where is picture of the kid filling the trash bag with beer or magazines? He saw him right? He is a AP photographer iirc. You gonna tell me he didn't have his camera when the kid was in the store but he had it in time to catch him in the water? righhtttt
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The shot fired over the heads of people on the crescent city connection happened after a large crowd became unruly when a suspect was being handcuffed. The suspect had been chased from the scene of an arson. There was one shot gun round fired and the crowd dispersed. Now its YOUR turn to explain YOUR racist overtones , Chairboy. You have an agenda against law enforcement, Chairboy? Explain YOUR distortion of the facts.
People stopped on the CCC were bus evaced to the to the Louis Armstrong airport. There were no evacuee centers set up on the west bank on New Orleans. There was an evac center set up at the airport.
So WHAT THE HELL is YOUR problem, Chairboy??
And ya know what Chairboy, I don't mean to be hard on you. You are a victim of the distorted story presented in the media. For the first time in two weeks, I am in the same state as my two other brothers, and twenty minutes ago we were in the same room. The further away from New Orleans, the more bizarre the stories. My oldest brother was in Nashville this morning and was afraid to come home because of water contamination and looting. Neither has been a problem where we live. His outlet has been the national media which has distorted everything.
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Umm, BTW, I think you're referring to a different incident. I'm guessing you missed where the Gretna police chief admitted that he ordered the police to seal off the bridge?
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The Gretna police sealed the bridge and put buses on the bridge to evac people after looters shot an NOPD officer in the head. Did you get that fact from the national distorted media? The Nopd officer shot in the head survived. I'm sure you are glad for that fact.
Chairboy- I am here in Algiers - a suberb of New Orleans. I know exactly what is going on. And its a lot better than what is presented. Nagin is saying he may open the CBD, Uptown and Algiers on Monday. Algiers is ****already up****** you heard it here first.
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Originally posted by Raider179
I'm sure you would. So this photographer who shot this picture and saw him looting in the store and this is the worst picture he got of the kid stealing? Where is picture of the kid filling the trash bag with beer or magazines? He saw him right? He is a AP photographer iirc. You gonna tell me he didn't have his camera when the kid was in the store but he had it in time to catch him in the water? righhtttt
so now you are a world class profesional photographer that has the pleasure of hindsite to know that your photo is going to cause contraversy and you have to take more photos as proof to justify your caption in order to avoid being pegged as a racist?
I mean c'mon this is a stretch of reality even for you. They author says he saw the guy looting a store so he labled him a looter. By the very definition it's the truth.
You need ALL of this proof just to prove there's no racial undertones to the picture or the caption?
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Gotta say, BTW, I'm not sure where you're coming from with the vitriole.... or facts.
Gotta say, your credibility isn't in great shape. First, you try and tell us that the bridge was open and that the fuss was because all the 'negroes' were marching on Gretna to steal televisions and chose not to take the first offramp. Of course, we later established that the bridge was blocked halfway.
Odd.
Next, you tell us some story about the crowd becoming upset because of some arsonist being arrested. That's right out of left field, no idea where that comes from.
In an interview with UPI, Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson confirmed that his department shut down the bridge to pedestrians: "If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged."
"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.
"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question—the Crescent City Connection—is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.
Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.
He added that the small town, which he called "a bedroom community" for the city of New Orleans, would have been overwhelmed by the influx.
What part of that quote from the police chief are you unclear on?
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Your reading comprehension is not my problem. The bridge was not shut down until the SECOND DAY - did you read that correctly?
I have not ONCE used the term "negroes" but YOU ***did**
I have not once stated "negroes" were stealing television sets, but YOU did.
isn't it VERY strange how bigots always reveal themselves, and you sir, are a bigot.
If you think you stereotypical view of this complex tragedy impresses anyone, well idiocy is as idiocy does.
Er let me ask you - how many of Gretna police officers are black?
How many of Gretna's black police officers were on duty during this incident?
You talk about my credibility while you put words in my mouth that I have never uttered. You cant find a post to quote what you've attributed to me. Yet you think lies will impess people. Ok you say I've said things you cant actually quote from a post. I say you are a liar. Now post the proof to back up your accusations. Otherwise you are just a liar.
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Hmmm... I'm beginning to suspect you may not be fully engaged.
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>>Hmmm... I'm beginning to suspect you may not be fully engaged.
Yea insult over argument - thats the ticket. You scored big on this one. Better stick with the video games - your logic is lacking.
Yea lets see - I lve .5 miles from where this happend - you live well I dunno how many miles from where it happened. My wallet is 6 inches thick with passes to get through different parishes and curfews and you are in oregon. You gonna tell me whats going on because of what you heard on cnn - well gee thank you Chairboy.
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Umm.. okeedokee.
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A message from the front
"We're home now, and the area is okay. None of the houses are really damaged, just lots of shingles on the ground. Some military men came up to me today and made sure that my family was okay and to let me know they'd be patrolingthe area. If you look down the street towards Holy Cross, all you see are the lights from all of the emergency vehicle trucks. I noticed a lot of broken glass in our parking lot, meaning that there are a few cars that were here when the owners left, but someone decided to take them for a joy ride. Someone broke the back window to our truck that we had to leave behind, but they couldn't start it up to steal it. Overall, we made out okay. So if you live here, or in the immediate area, it's safe to come home. Walgreens on Gen. Degaulle is open, gas stations are opening, and people are slowly coming back into Algiers. We need ALL of you to come back to make this place feel a little more normal."
But you tell me all about it Chairboy. Tell me whats going on Chairboy.
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Come on BTW Chairboy wants you to tell him how it really is. How you and everyone in your city each have personally stolen the last water a poor black baby had.:rofl
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Regarding the 2 seperate references to people looting/Finding food.....
Are there any references to Blacks "Finding" or "Looking" for food? Or are they all saying that blacks are looting? Because, since this happened from 2 completely different journalist... how can there be a correlation unless it is consistantly this way?
Sounds like someone went looking for a reason to play the race card and came up with a very weak hand unless it is shown that it was policy to call all blacks looters.
Anyone wanna bet whether or not the media will now stop calling any black a criminal, looter, poor sport or bad driver for the next 5 years?
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It's been a few hours since last night, BTW, you feeling any better?
All the squabbling aside, just want you to know that my family sends you and the rest of the people directly affected by the flooding best wishes, and we hope for a speedy recovery down there.
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Originally posted by mosgood
Regarding the 2 seperate references to people looting/Finding food.....
Are there any references to Blacks "Finding" or "Looking" for food? Or are they all saying that blacks are looting? Because, since this happened from 2 completely different journalist... how can there be a correlation unless it is consistantly this way?
Sounds like someone went looking for a reason to play the race card and came up with a very weak hand unless it is shown that it was policy to call all blacks looters.
Anyone wanna bet whether or not the media will now stop calling any black a criminal, looter, poor sport or bad driver for the next 5 years?
Somewhere in NO a $4000 Plasma TV will now be home to Guppies.
There was a MANDATORY EVACUATION prior to the Hurricane. Those who stayed behind are now realizing the errors of their stupidity. Their blatant actions CANNOT be defended (regardless of Race, Religion, Creed, Color, or Sex).
"Mayor Ray Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city of New Orleans in the face of Category-5 Katrina which was expected to make a direct strike on the city early Monday. "
Karaya
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Thank you Chairboy. People from all over the world have been extraordinarily kind to the places affected by Katrina. Still some people wish to push a political agenda and make it a race tragedy when it is nothing of the kind.
So to reiterate
No one was persecuted for skin color
Gretna is NOT an all white city, and their police department is not all white.
Gretna police did not fire shotgun rounds over people heads to stop them from crossing the bridge. They did park buses on the bridge and transported groups to appropriate shelters.
I know it hurts, but there was no case of rednecks beating down the black man in a time of tragedy. You can only get so much mileage out of that sophomoric drama.
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A whopping 3 hours after the storm, starving and dehydrated looters were smashing electronics stores windows in search of food and water:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by BTW
Thank you Chairboy. People from all over the world have been extraordinarily kind to the places affected by Katrina. Still some people wish to push a political agenda and make it a race tragedy when it is nothing of the kind.
So to reiterate
No one was persecuted for skin color
Gretna is NOT an all white city, and their police department is not all white.
Gretna police did not fire shotgun rounds over people heads to stop them from crossing the bridge. They did park buses on the bridge and transported groups to appropriate shelters.
I know it hurts, but there was no case of rednecks beating down the black man in a time of tragedy. You can only get so much mileage out of that sophomoric drama.
Remember Reginald Denny, wait......He was White. I don't recall "Caucasions" pulling the Race Card.
Karaya
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Boo hoo....You won't let me steal from you because your a racist.
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Xargos, children were dying of dehydration just a couple hundred feet away. Feel better about it now? For every looter, there are 1,000 good people just trying to survive.
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I realy was not talking about them being turned away, I was ranting about something else. If their food and water was taken I hope charges are filed against the ones that did it.
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Not just taken away, but those people were prevented from escaping to a place that HAD enough water to prevent them from dying.
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Since I work in law enforcement I would be charged with "Deliberate Indiffence" if I was to turn my back on someone who was in physical harm, at least that's the way it is in South Carolina. I wonder if the police in Gretna can be charged with the same thing.
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>>Not just taken away, but those people were prevented from escaping to a place that HAD enough water to prevent them from dying.
<<
You keep stating that but its simply not true. The people were placed on buses and transported to shelters. Only you know your agenda behind posting this lie. You honestly think Any policeman would turn away a dehydrated child?? I am really starting to resent you stereotyping New Orleaneans.
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Only you know your agenda behind posting this lie.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, I hold police in the highest regard. Do you mind filling me in on my agenda so I can act appropriately?
What part of THE POLICE CHIEF himself stating that he CLOSED THE BRIDGE to pedestrian traffic and TURNED PEOPLE AWAY?
What exactly is your agenda in contradicting the very statements of the Gretna police chief himself? Is he part of some conspiracy to defame himself and his own officers? Because he stated that he gave the orders to turn people back, and there are hundreds of eye-witnesses that state that's exactly what happened, and that there were no buses.
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Your statement is a lie. There were buses and the pedestrians were moved to shelters. You are looking for a race story and there isn't a race story so you are making one up. I resent it. Why don't you go pick on people who aren't cleaning up from a catastrophe. Your bleeding heart is evident from your propensity to kick people who are down. I am moved by you kindness.
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?!?!
I know that there were buses, and pedestrians were moved to shelter, but I'm talking about the Gretna bridge incident where the police fired over the heads of pedestrians trying to leave New Orleans.
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And that incident was distorted by CNN and had to do with the apprehension of a criminal. There was ONE shot fired in the air when a crowd became unruly when a criminal was being handcuffed. There are key eye witnesses to this event and it has already been substantiated. In case you don't know, the FBI is all over New Orleans as well the ATF. People have their hands full right now and cant afford to spend time deflecting CNN hatchet jobs from gutless cowards who hide behind victims to further their malicious agenda. I just find it interesting that CNN failed to mention the New Orleans policeman who was shot in the head in events that led to the distorted event you mentioned.
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The incident you're talking about is not the same as the one I'm referring to. THAT appears to be the basis of your misunderstanding, you're thinking of something else.
Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002498314_bridge16.html
So they consulted a police commander posted near Harrah's Casino on Canal Street. "He told us he had a solution: We should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater New Orleans Bridge," Slonsky and Bradshaw wrote. Buses would be stationed on the other side, the commander said.
They headed for the bridge, about 200 people, nearly all of them African American, according to Slonsky. As they approached the structure, Slonsky and Bradshaw reported, they were met with a police barricade and the sound of bullets whizzing overhead. Dozens began to peel away and scatter. Slonsky and Bradshaw wrote that they and a few others managed to approach the police line. They were told there were no buses.
"We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the six-lane highway," Slonsky and Bradshaw wrote. "They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans, and there would be no Superdomes in their city. These were code words for: If you are poor and black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River, and you are not getting out of New Orleans." Bradshaw reports that there were about a dozen cops guarding the bridge, and only one of them was black.
The LA Times wrote: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gretna16sep16,0,728170.story?coll=la-home-headlines
"I realized we couldn't continue, manpower-wise, fuel-wise," Lawson said Thursday. Armed Gretna police, helped by local sheriff's deputies and bridge police, turned hundreds of men, women and children back to New Orleans.
MSNBC wrote: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9324538/
And they allowed us to approach. And Larry explained that we were told to come across the bridge, so that we could get on these buses. And we were turned back. We were told we absolutely could not come on to the bridge, that the deputy had told us, we are not going to have another New Orleans, and we're not going to have another Superdome on the other side of the bridge, which is Gretna.
So, pretty discouraged, we did turn around and started to go back down, where we discovered an embankment area on I think it is called the Pontchartrain Expressway. And we a group of about 50, 60 70 people, found an area that was protected. It was concrete this way and this way. And we made ourselves inside of it.
It might not have been racism, but it certainly was callous disregard for human life. And it's obvious that you have no clue what I'm talking about and are referring to some other incident where someone was arrested, and there were buses and so on.
If we're going to argue, at the very least, please know what we're arguing about! Anything else just won't work.
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Oh horrid day, the code words for poor and black!
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I have no regard for the gutless stories you post. First off NO CHILDREN were turned away or left to fend for themselves and IDEFY you to prove otherwise. The reporter is a friggin liar. I do have the utmost contempt for anyone who would find fault with the heroic actions of police officers following Katrina. The conditions were so awful and communications so lacking, TWO committed suicide. Numerous officers just left - disappeared. And you find stories to nitpick the actions of the brave police officers that maintained their post to protect human life? Firefighters were fired upon while responding to fires by marauding gangs, and rescue operations were suspended after helicopters were fired upon. And you nitpick the actions of a few police officers trying to maintain their post. The 1st District police station in New Orleans was attacked. An you site stories from gutless reporters looking for a race angle. You need to pull your head out of your arse and come down here and look.
There is no race angle. There are hundreds of miles of devastation. But why bother being part of the crowd reporting that devastation or helping when you can be unique and take pot shots at officers too busy to respond? Seems to me, that's the same mentality of the looters. Seems to be cut from the same mold.
You should be so ashamed of your actions, but I am confident you are gleeful.
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>>And it's obvious that you have no clue what I'm talking about and are referring to some other incident where someone was arrested, and there were buses and so on.
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Or perhaps your news outlets have it WRONG. NBC news tells me I'm returning to Algiers Monday to ground covered in muck and no power. There is no muck in Algiers - it didn't flood. At least 30% of Algiers has been back for a week and power restoration is 95%. So much for intelligent reporters eh? Your stories seem to be based on one or two accounts with people who could gain much by giving a distorted account.
There is a significant FBI presence looking over the local police districts and tracking known criminals that may be in shelters or the relief system.
There is a significant ATF presence as many guns were looted in the hours after Katrina, and the ATF is looking for these guns.
But you keep reading the stories kicking around the first responders.
The good news is New Orleans is the safest it has been in 30 years. There is virtually NO crime in New Orleans today.