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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Krusher on September 13, 2005, 02:18:19 PM

Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Krusher on September 13, 2005, 02:18:19 PM
They must be kidding !

A red Crescent is the most inappropriate religious display I can think of for this design.

Flight 93 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05251/567702.stm)


(http://www.post-gazette.com/images3/20050908wp_flight93memorial-1_230.jpg)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Pooh21 on September 13, 2005, 02:43:49 PM
What ******* thought that up? That is totally wrong and insensitive I think.


Now if we build a proper memorial to the heros of flight 93 that would be nice


and we could then move that cresent thing to nebraska and add that pig from green acres humping it while drinking JD.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Krusher on September 13, 2005, 02:45:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pooh21
What ******* thought that up? That is totally wrong and insensitive I think.


Now if we build a proper memorial to the heros of flight 93 that would be nice


and we could then move that cresent thing to nebraska and add that pig from green acres humping it while drinking JD.




It looks like this is a memorial to the hijackers.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 13, 2005, 03:24:41 PM
un****inbelievable.  This stuff will not fly in my state.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 13, 2005, 04:27:08 PM
I don't see a problem with the design at all. Not sure what reason there is to get your panties all wadded up. They're just Maple trees.

http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/crescent_of_embrace.asp
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Pooh21 on September 13, 2005, 04:29:40 PM
Ok lets make a memorial to the holocaust, using maple trees in the form of an ancient navajo symbol.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 13, 2005, 04:34:08 PM
Oh... I didn't realize that the crescent was a symbol for Al Qaeda.

:huh



Oh... and maples trees, even red maple trees are not red year round. They are in fact... wait for it...


GREEN.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 13, 2005, 05:33:50 PM
Jesus ****ing christ.  I'm looking over the proposed designs for the flight 93 memorial, I've come to the conclusion that architects are useless to society.  And should be treated as such.



What ever happened to a ****ing monument?  Some of the most powerful memorials in the world are located in Ghettysburg.  And no architect ever had a hand in designing them.



I'm calling them up.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: ALF on September 13, 2005, 06:05:05 PM
It looks more like a HOOP EARING or a necklace worn by a tribe member after winning immunity!  Geez

I would like to take this opportunity to appologize for the Combathanger Logo....NOT



In a knee jerk reaction typical of those with not enough to occupy their day, some people and 'news' sites are reporting that the design for the new flight 93 memorial is too similar to a crescent used in many Islamic cultures.  Im sure if you try hard enough you can make a crescent overlay onto the memorial layout in some fashion...after all a crescent is a FLIPPIN SEMI CIRCLE!  For Gods sake, what the hell kind of 'I want to be offended' drugs do you have to take to claim that this design is somehow inappropriate....of course given the variety of crescent shapes in the Islamic culture, some which are just half circle crescents, others of which are very close to being closed (close enough to look allot like an eye), it would be hard to make ANY circular design that couldnt be accused of looking like a crescent of Islamic influence.

(http://www.combathanger.com/memorial1.jpg)
overhead view



(http://www.combathanger.com/memorial2.jpg)
overhead view with yellow outlining the shape of the memorial.


I guess that we are not allowed to use crescents anymore without being considered insensitive.  Oh, and those screaming out against the design, not the families that lost their loved ones, no, its typical political grand standers.  The Flight 93 Memorial is for everyone to have a place to remember the cost freedom sometimes elicits, and the sacred memories of those who when presented with a choice, chose the path that best embodies the true American Spirit.  I for one cannot think about the men and women flight 93 without feeling and almost overwhelming sadness overpowered by a feeling of pride.  God willing I will never have the opportunity to show the depth of character and resolve shown by the Americans aboard Flight 93.  I will not stand silent while those with less understanding look for a reason to obfuscate the meaning of their memorial.

It is a tribute to the American Spirit

The ideals we hold most dear

That sometimes, when fate calls upon ordinary people, we realize that they were not so ordinary after all.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Pooh21 on September 13, 2005, 06:08:26 PM
if you draw a line from the cluster at the cresents tips through the middle it points straight at mecca
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: RTR on September 13, 2005, 06:11:23 PM
hooooboy.......

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

RTR
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Pooh21 on September 13, 2005, 06:14:37 PM
probably, but why pass up an opportunity to wave a torch and rake thing around.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 13, 2005, 06:16:25 PM
Fine.  You can build this in your state.  


In mine we're going to make a good memorial.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Raider179 on September 13, 2005, 06:16:50 PM
Seems like a poor choice to me. I doubt it will stay that way. At least I hope not. That's the best they could do??? sheesh
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 13, 2005, 06:38:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Oh... I didn't realize that the crescent was a symbol for Al Qaeda.

:huh



Oh... and maples trees, even red maple trees are not red year round. They are in fact... wait for it...


GREEN.


I have a japaneese mape that stays red year round:D

Well. not YEAR round. but from spring to fall when it has leafs
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Jackal1 on September 13, 2005, 08:22:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Well. not YEAR round. but from spring to fall when it has leafs


Where does it go to then? :)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2005, 08:28:52 PM
If this thing had a star in the middle I'd be totally flabegasted and furious at the same time.

(http://www.mideastnewswire.com/moon4_islam.jpg)

I can only say that since it's name is crescent it bares close resemblence wich is too much for me.  Considering this is one of the most tragic days in US history caused by people who commited this act in the name of a religion that is heavily represented by the crescent.  

It should be changed if you ask me.

Like the liberals say about racism during Katrina......I think the artist "subconicously" is trying to make a point.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 13, 2005, 08:29:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Jesus ****ing christ.  I'm looking over the proposed designs for the flight 93 memorial, I've come to the conclusion that architects are useless to society.  And should be treated as such.



What ever happened to a ****ing monument?  Some of the most powerful memorials in the world are located in Ghettysburg.  And no architect ever had a hand in designing them.



I'm calling them up.


I'm sure they'll give your opinion all the careful consideration that it deserves.

:aok
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 13, 2005, 08:55:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
Where does it go to then? :)


Yanno. I dont know. I'll ask it on the 22nd:)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: vorticon on September 13, 2005, 09:03:35 PM
your pissed off at a red smilie face :confused:
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 13, 2005, 09:55:47 PM
Hey, I've already been in contact with the Superintendent of the Building Site.

I called her up today.


She's going to call back again tomorrow.



I told them I'm an Architectural Engineer from Penn State.  I left off the "Student" part...
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 13, 2005, 09:59:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184

I told them I'm an Architectural Engineer from Penn State.  I left off the "Student" part...


You should consider politics. ;)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 13, 2005, 10:15:03 PM
Who says I haven't?  ;)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Leslie on September 13, 2005, 11:59:50 PM
Looks like it follows the topography, with cliffs (or a bluff) on the right side, and following the hillside around to the west.  The area forms a natural circle it looks like from the topo view.

I would be interested in hearing the designer's artistic statement before condemning him/her.  There may be good reasoning behind the "sculpture."  Without the statement, we don't know.

It could only be seen from the air.  The maples stand out and would form a cresent visible to aircraft.  As I said before, who knows the symbology without an artist's statement.

Not a bad design by any means, but I gotta go with inappropriate for the memorial site until I read a darn good justification from the designer/artist.

Why not make it a complete circle?  The circle is symbolic of continuance, of faith, of steadfastness, of strength, of eternity.  Symbolic of a circle that will not be broken.

Far as calling up and questioning, I would tend to get upset and might fly off the handle.  However, you gotta think about it like this.  Ask about the design and say, "I'm kinda thinking this cresent design could be misinterpreted, just so you know, and was wondering if you might have thought about this, cause I gotta say having an Islamic cresent there doesn't seem right to me."  Especially where pilots can see it.

I dunno.  I think it has the potential to upset people, unless there is a solid reason for the design being as it is, akin to it being a victory symbol...the way pilots mark up kills on their planes by using flag markings.  Don't use it unless that's what it stands for to honor those who fought back against terrorists and defeated them.  Which is what this monument is about.




Les
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on September 14, 2005, 12:28:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Looks like it follows the topography, with cliffs (or a bluff) on the right side, and following the hillside around to the west.  The area forms a natural circle it looks like from the topo view.

I would be interested in hearing the designer's artistic statement before condemning him/her.  There may be good reasoning behind the "sculpture."  Without the statement, we don't know.

It could only be seen from the air.  The maples stand out and would form a cresent visible to aircraft.  As I said before, who knows the symbology without an artist's statement.

Not a bad design by any means, but I gotta go with inappropriate for the memorial site until I read a darn good justification from the designer/artist.

Why not make it a complete circle?  The circle is symbolic of continuance, of faith, of steadfastness, of strength, of eternity.  Symbolic of a circle that will not be broken.

Far as calling up and questioning, I would tend to get upset and might fly off the handle.  However, you gotta think about it like this.  Ask about the design and say, "I'm kinda thinking this cresent design could be misinterpreted, just so you know, and was wondering if you might have thought about this, cause I gotta say having an Islamic cresent there doesn't seem right to me."  Especially where pilots can see it.

I dunno.  I think it has the potential to upset people, unless there is a solid reason for the design being as it is, akin to it being a victory symbol...the way pilots mark up kills on their planes by using flag markings.  Don't use it unless that's what it stands for to honor those who fought back against terrorists and defeated them.  Which is what this monument is about.




Les


sounds to me like it's EXACTLY what some liberal artsy fartsy person wants.  Reaction.....discussion.  I bet it was done on puprose, especially after the pilot comment.  Just too much to missinturpret and alot of room to draw too much into it.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 14, 2005, 12:34:24 AM
Take a look at the slide show in this link (http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/crescent_of_embrace.asp). From the ground, it looks pretty damn cool.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on September 14, 2005, 12:39:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Take a look at the slide show in this link (http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/crescent_of_embrace.asp). From the ground, it looks pretty damn cool.


I think it looks cool myself.  I think that the choice to use a resemblence of the religious icon in wich this attack was carried out in the name of is just wrong.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on September 14, 2005, 12:42:34 AM
I think the resemblance is overstated.


It's like saying a cross resembles a swastika.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Leslie on September 14, 2005, 01:00:29 AM
I don't know Guns, I'm a bohemian artist pretty much out of the mainstream art world.  Just thinking out loud.  Sorry to offend you.  It was not intentional.  



Les
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: SaburoS on September 14, 2005, 02:52:41 AM
LOL, damn, some of you are gonna have a stroke over this. It actually looks cool and when I see it from any angle, it doesn't remind me of some fundamentalist muslim terrorist organization. It does look cool.
They had some relatives of those actually on flight 93 and they like it. Perhaps their opinion on the monument is more important than ours, no?
Now if they had a symbol showing a silouette of a suicide bomber or a plane crashing into the WTC, then I'd object.
What happens when you look up at night and see a waning or waxing cresent moon? Really folks, there are far more important things to worry about.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Krusher on September 14, 2005, 07:32:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
They had some relatives of those actually on flight 93 and they like it. Perhaps their opinion on the monument is more important than ours, no?
 


Absolutly not, they (the families) do not own the event, not to mention several have stated their objections already.

Look the bottom line is this should not be controversial at all. if it is, it needs to be changed.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on September 14, 2005, 08:22:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I think the resemblance is overstated.


It's like saying a cross resembles a swastika.


To me it would be the same as putting something that resembles the star of david on a memorial for a hamas bomber.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: SaburoS on September 14, 2005, 01:19:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
Absolutly not, they (the families) do not own the event, not to mention several have stated their objections already.

Look the bottom line is this should not be controversial at all. if it is, it needs to be changed.


From the link above:

As the black cloak that had hidden the winner was removed, a collective gasp came from those gathered, who then rose to their feet to applaud.

In the front row, three family members --a woman who lost her mother, a woman who lost her husband and a woman who lost her brother -- leaned into each other, in a show of love and support.

"It's powerful but understated," said Kiki Homer, whose brother, LeRoy W. Homer Jr., was co-pilot on the plane that crashed after passengers rebelled against terrorist hijackers. "It's beautifully simple.

"My breath is taken away."

Esther Heymann, whose daughter, Elizabeth Wainio, died in the crash, agreed.

"The understatement speaks to the profoundness of what occurred here," she said.

According to jurors who chose the winner, it offers "tranquility, beauty and silence. It will be a place for everyone who visits to feel the spirits of the 40 heroes in the whisper of the trees and honor their unselfish sacrifice of their lives to preserve the lives of countless many."
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Yeager on September 14, 2005, 01:43:51 PM
the use of a crescent in this memorial is a tragic concept and I hope the decision is reversed.  

If you are from PA call your congresspersons, senators and write letters to your editors......let them know the red crescent is a symbol of Islam and entirely inappropriate in a memorial that was created by Islamic mass murderers.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Hawklore on September 14, 2005, 01:47:11 PM
Nice idea..

but, not the right look..
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Hawklore on September 14, 2005, 01:48:35 PM
Perhaps a continuing spiral till it reaches the exact center of impact.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: ASTAC on September 14, 2005, 05:22:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
the use of a crescent in this memorial is a tragic concept and I hope the decision is reversed.  

I


But come on ISlam is a "religon of peace" right?

Why not just a full circle?
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 14, 2005, 06:11:48 PM
This is really what we need.  Nothing gaudy, just pure emotional power:

(http://www.gettysburg-bandb.com/images/gettysburg-monument.jpg)  (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rkandbd/Photo%20Gallery/Monument%20at%20Gettysburg.jpg)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Hawklore on September 14, 2005, 07:02:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
This is really what we need.  Nothing gaudy, just pure emotional power:

(http://www.gettysburg-bandb.com/images/gettysburg-monument.jpg)  (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rkandbd/Photo%20Gallery/Monument%20at%20Gettysburg.jpg)


It's not ecanomic!!

:cry

But yea.. I think a large statue of all the people on the flight pushing through a cockpit door and with dead terroists laying around..
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Flit on September 14, 2005, 10:04:46 PM
How about we think about the islamic fundamentilist's will think when they see this
  Ya think they won't take it as a "sign from god " ?
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Jackal1 on September 15, 2005, 01:49:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Flit
How about we think about the islamic fundamentilist's will think when they see this
  Ya think they won't take it as a "sign from god " ?


  If they do they will be running them l`il towelheaded arses off. :)
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Krusher on September 15, 2005, 10:39:41 AM
WASHINGTON - The architect of the memorial to a plane downed in western Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001, said Wednesday he would work to satisfy critics who complained that it honors terrorists with its crescent-shaped design.
Designer Paul Murdoch said he is "somewhat optimistic" that the spirit of the design could be maintained.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on December 01, 2005, 12:34:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
WASHINGTON - The architect of the memorial to a plane downed in western Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001, said Wednesday he would work to satisfy critics who complained that it honors terrorists with its crescent-shaped design.
Designer Paul Murdoch said he is "somewhat optimistic" that the spirit of the design could be maintained.


UPDATE:

SO the artist grudgenly changed his design but it doesnt look all that different to me.  SIDENOTE:  Leslie I hope you didn't think I was jumping on you, like I said I think it looks good but completly inappropriate.

http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/11/redesigned-flight-93-memorial-still_30.html
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on December 01, 2005, 12:36:55 AM
It's a semi-circle. The horror!
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on December 01, 2005, 12:44:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
It's a semi-circle. The horror!


still looks like a cresent to me.  Either way the conspiracy theory of it pointing to mecca sounds interesting.  Wonder if there's any truth to that.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Flit on December 01, 2005, 12:44:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
It's a semi-circle. The horror!

It's a semi- circle thats red and points toward Mecca
The point is not what You think it is, it is what They think it is.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Sandman on December 01, 2005, 12:52:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Flit
It's a semi- circle thats red and points toward Mecca
The point is not what You think it is, it is what They think it is.


Hmmm... how exactly does a semi-circle point at anything?
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Vulcan on December 01, 2005, 02:12:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
This is really what we need.  Nothing gaudy, just pure emotional power:

(http://www.gettysburg-bandb.com/images/gettysburg-monument.jpg)  (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rkandbd/Photo%20Gallery/Monument%20at%20Gettysburg.jpg)


whats that? a mini-mosque?
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: moot on December 01, 2005, 05:18:02 AM
:lol
Was going to say...
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: CavemanJ on December 01, 2005, 08:06:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm... how exactly does a semi-circle point at anything?


draw a line connecting the cresent tips, bisect it with a perpendicular line, and then see what the bisector points at.

The radicals over there are loving this mess =\
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Curval on December 01, 2005, 08:14:22 AM
LOL...

So...the Red Crescent is a symbol of islamic fundamentalism now?

Have you ever heard of the Red Cross?  The Red Crescent (http://donate.ifrc.org/) is simply the Mid East "arm" of that organisation.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Leslie on December 02, 2005, 01:13:54 AM
Well all I got to say is Gunslinger,  I wish I was tough enough to kick your ass.  Until then carry on.:D




Les
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Yeager on December 02, 2005, 02:55:01 AM
are you suggesting cave that the perpendicular line will point to mecca?
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 02, 2005, 07:58:57 AM
The crescent is a sign for islam, and and since islamic terrorists destroyed the plane I think its pretty silly to evoke such imagery in thr memoril.

Its like having an auschwitz memorial with the theme of "the schwastika of shabbt"
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: lasersailor184 on December 02, 2005, 08:40:41 AM
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention?  Being an Architectural Engineer (cough student cough) I got a hold of the director and had a talk with her.

I explained all the bad architecture involved, plus the building costs would be phenomonal.


Later that week I heard they were redesigning it.
Title: Crescent of Embrace
Post by: Gunslinger on December 02, 2005, 10:15:49 AM
"Semi-circle of the Embrace" just doesn't quite have the same ring to it.