Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Iceman24 on September 14, 2005, 11:51:37 AM
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All week long I have been defending the bush admin over this whole NO / Katrina deal, I wake up this morning and GW is on tv apologizing to the people of NO for doing a crappy job. I'm done with this guy, trash and bash him all you want, you won't find me tring to defend him anymore... he's a freakin tard
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Lol,you just found out?
Thats him (http://i.on.ru/s/729.gif)
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yeah rgr that, I even tried defending him over the whole 9/11 fiasco... i'm done now, everytime I try and say something good about him, he does something to make me look like an idiot for defending him
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Its much easier to be a pessimist and bash him, blame him for everything, than it is to be an optimist. Go for it.
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What are you mad at? Are you mad at him because you believe that he made mistakes? Or are you mad because you feel like circumstances made you look silly?
Don't get worked up about it. I'm upset that emergency relief plans proved ineffective (death by dehydration IN OUR OWN COUNTRY during an emergency?), but I hardly think he's to blame. Like I've said, I'm definately no Bush fan, but his job is to manage groups at a high level, and while the end result is his responsibility (eg, the buck stops here), it's not his FAULT that other people fell down on the job.
My opinion of him improved when he made the apology for the federal response.
When it comes to our president, I'm less interested in what happened last week then I am in what changes will be made going forward to improve emergency response effectiveness. Anything else at this point is just political posturing.
For the record, didn't vote for him, so don't call me a Boooosh flunky.
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"My fellow Americans...I apologize...I apologize that we do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering."
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Be very careful Iceman24
You will be called: Flip-flopper, anti-american, terrorist supporter, bin laden fan and possibly a dumbocrat.
I've beeb thinking about not defending Bush myself but so far I have behaved.
Welcome to the dark side Iceman24 :)
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My opinion of him improved when he made the apology for the federal response.
I understand where you are coming from by saying that, yes I am glad to see that he is taking responsibility for the actions of a group appointed by himself. The only problem I am having with it is for the past 2 weeks now I have heard nothing from our government but excuses as to why they aren't helping. Such as no martial law, no state of emergency or anything like that. Since this whole thing started they have been saying that's its not there responsibility, and they stated many reasons for it. Now another few days go by and Bush comes on tv saying he apologizes for the feds slow response. Heck John Kerry never flip flopped so much in his life ( not saying kerry would be better, he's a moron too ). This is just retarted tho. "Not our fault, its the states" was all I heard for a week and 1/2. Now they are coming back and saying "yeah we know we told ya'll that it was the states responsibility, we were wrong it is ours". All that does is make me think that nobody up there has a freakin clue about who is supposed to do what, its sad when a bunch of people that play an online WWII sim have a better grasp on our government and there responsibility's than they do
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lol nice Nilsen lol Dumbocrat
for the record I am not affiliated with any political regime, political parties are for the birds. democrats will be wussy democrats and republicans will be crazed righ wing nut jobs, nothing new. IMO that is the main problem with our gov. There is constantly 2 teams fighting eachother. Democrats are screaming that Bush didn't do anything, then the Republicans are trying to throw excuses at it and play the blame game. In reality none of them have a clue as to who is at fault and are too busy bickering with eachother to actually acomplish something good. I really think that we need to make some new law that state nobody can be appointed to a government position unless they have lived and worked in the "real world" for at least 15 years. Its just like the comedian Lewis Black said, " It's like we went through everybody in the country and found the biggest F-ups we could and said you know what, you can't hack it in the outside world why don't you come lead us"
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Originally posted by Iceman24
Now they are coming back and saying "yeah we know we told ya'll that it was the states responsibility, we were wrong it is ours".
Untrue.
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and that the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.
"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.
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President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and that the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.
I think we all know farely well how GW responds to terrorist attacks, we go and attack our enemy's enemy to help them out lol I thought everybody knew that already lol. I'm not going to talk any more crap about politics because it makes me upset, I'm just going to kick back and watch the show, so far it's been pretty good.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
What are you mad at? Are you mad at him because you believe that he made mistakes? Or are you mad because you feel like circumstances made you look silly?
Don't get worked up about it. I'm upset that emergency relief plans proved ineffective (death by dehydration IN OUR OWN COUNTRY during an emergency?), but I hardly think he's to blame. Like I've said, I'm definately no Bush fan, but his job is to manage groups at a high level, and while the end result is his responsibility (eg, the buck stops here), it's not his FAULT that other people fell down on the job.
My opinion of him improved when he made the apology for the federal response.
When it comes to our president, I'm less interested in what happened last week then I am in what changes will be made going forward to improve emergency response effectiveness. Anything else at this point is just political posturing.
For the record, didn't vote for him, so don't call me a Boooosh flunky.
He is to blame, but he is not alone in sharing that blame. After 9/11 He should MADE SURE we were equipped to take care of any more large scale attacks/disasters. He failed miserably and so did His appointment Brown. That being said they were not alone. Is it possible that becuase NO wasn't LA or NY or DC that plans to deal effectively with large scale disaster/terrorist attacks weren't created? maybe
This might be why he is to blame though. Putting Big contributors into offices that they have no business being in.
Brown's ticket to FEMA was Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000 campaign manager and an old friend of Brown's in Oklahoma. When Bush ran for president in 2000, Brown was ending a rocky tenure at the horse association.
Brown told several association officials that if Bush were elected, he'd be in line for a good job. When Allbaugh, who managed Bush's campaign, took over FEMA in 2001, he took Brown with him as general counsel.
"He's known Joe Allbaugh for quite some time," said Andrew Lester, an Oklahoma lawyer who's been a friend of Brown's for more than 20 years. "I think they know each other from school days. I think they did some debate type of things against each other, and worked on some Republican politics together."
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Untrue.
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina...
Hmmm... does this mean he'll resign from office? If not, what does it really mean? No cookies before bedtime?
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sandy... klinton took full responsibility for the katrina response... he should resign... klinton took full resposibilty for Waco... he should be tried and executed for murder.
lazs
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I belive its Clinton, not Klinton.
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I believe Clinton is not relevant.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I believe Clinton is not relevant.
Hilarity, Bush in office for 5 years yet its still Clinton's fault that everything is messed up. Bush didn't keep his promise to reform government, He didn't reform it after 9/11 and I doubt he will do it after Katrina. More lies from the Booshinator.
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ok... Bush resign and klinton go on trial for murder... or... they can both just say the words and go on about their business.
lazs
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just business as usual guys. face it, once your dead it wont matter how you died or even who you were. Life will go on without you.
the presidency of bush is losing importance and even relevance in my life but I predicted this. every second term is less than the first since I started noticing back in about 86.
and its klinton if you thought bubba was a commie symper.
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It's really easy to pick out the real men.
Some men will say, "It's not my fault. I didn't cause this."
Real men will say, "It's my responsibility." That doesn't mean that they caused it. Or that they are the reason things happened that way.
It means he has the balls to step up and make sure things get fixed.
Well, at least that's what my dad taught me as a kid. I guess all the liberal dad's did not teach them the same thing.
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I wouldn't have apologized, and can't believe he did.
The response was faster than any other hurricane relief before.
Lets not forget that the real people responsible were the state and local leaders keeping the relief efforts out of the area.
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Lets hope Ophelia behaves. Can cause havoc even if it wont cause the devestation in NO.
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I can't believe you guys are defending Dubya after he stepped up to the plate and apologuised for his obvious failure in handling this disaster. On second thought, yes I can believe it.
Why don't you pick up a copy of Newsweek and read just exactly what happened and how it was handled? Oh wait, that is just the liberal media. Perhaps you should tune to your "Fair and Balanced" Fox News Channel and watch their coverage, or are they now just the liberal media?
It's pretty a universal conclusion that Bush screwed the pooch on this one. It's also his own conclusion. Or is he just some ignorant liberal?
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The only mistake Bush made was expecting that Governer and that Mayor to do their jobs.
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Originally posted by Xargos
The only mistake Bush made was expecting that Governer and that Mayor to do their jobs.
Exactly....EVERYTHING must be started at the STATE level..they are the ones that dropped the ball...I think he was apologizing because people expect that the Federal Gov't should have overstepped it's bounds and did something regardless.
If he had done that, Democratic lawmakers would still have cried foul, saying the feds took over a state matter.
Mr. Bush is in a no win situation. His detractors argue the other side, just for the sake of saying something bad...I mean really do you guys think that ALL the democrats disagree with EVERY policy he has come up with? NO! but they come out against just because he's for it. ...No good has come out of ANY part of the government since it became about squashing the other party and not about what is best for the people they represent.
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No, the fact that the Governor prohibited the Red Cross from delivering food and water to the Super Dome was entirely George Bush's fault.
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I'm pretty sure the fact that he did not even see one single photo or news report of the disaster (because his aides thought it might upset him) untill that Thursday when they made a DVD for him to watch on Air Force One proves it's the Democrat's fault.
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Originally posted by rpm
I'm pretty sure the fact that he did not even see one single photo or news report of the disaster untill that Thursday when they made a DVD for him to watch on Air Force One because his aides thought it might upset him proves it's the Democrat's fault.
actually he flew over the area prior to thursday in AF one IIRC.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
actually he flew over the area prior to thursday in AF one IIRC.
It doesn't matter what we say..they are too angry with Bush since the 2000 election, to see it any other way than the worst possible way they can. Quicky they are becoming a waste of keystrokes.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
actually he flew over the area prior to thursday in AF one IIRC.
You do not IIRC.
Newsweek reported that the reality of Katrina did not sink in for the president until days after the levees broke, turning New Orleans into a watery grave. It took a virtual intervention of his top aides to make W. watch the news about the worst natural disaster in a century. Dan Bartlett made a DVD of newscasts on the hurricane to show the president on Friday morning as he flew down to the Gulf Coast.
The aides were scared to tell the isolated president that he should cut short his vacation by a couple of days, Newsweek said, because he can be "cold and snappish in private." Mike Allen wrote in Time about one "youngish aide" who was so terrified about telling Mr. Bush he was wrong about something during the first term, he "had dry heaves" afterward.
Unlike Dubya, you should read the newspaper or watch TV. Sorry Guns.
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This got burried rather quickly, so once more: Hows about them apples? (http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/crskatrinarept91205.pdf)
-- All necessary conditions for federal relief were met on August 28. Pursuant to Section 502 of the Stafford Act, "(t)he declaration of an emergency by the President makes Federal emergency assistance available," and the President made such a declaration on August 28. The public record indicates that several additional days passed before such assistance was actually made available to the State;
-- The Governor must make a timely request for such assistance, which meets the requirements of federal law. The report states that "(e)xcept to the extent that an emergency involves primarily Federal interests, both declarations of major disaster and declarations of emergency must be triggered by a request to the President from the Governor of the affected state";
-- The Governor did indeed make such a request, which was both timely and in compliance with federal law. The report finds that "Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco requested by letter dated August 27, 2005...that the President declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period from August 26, 2005 and continuing pursuant to (applicable Federal statute)" and "Governor Blanco's August 27, 2005 request for an emergency declaration also included her determination...that 'the incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of disaster."
Of course, it aint Drudge. But being the first official document to emerge since this disaster, I thought I'd go out on a limb and post it anyways.
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What I want to know is, why this whole disaster immediately became about the politics? It wasn't even 24 hours after the storm passed and accusations started to fly...maybe the president dropped the ball, maybe the local officials did, who knows really. Instead of just movong on into the relief and recovery stage, we have to pause and figure out who is responsible and who will have to pay for their irresponsibility. Meanwhile the victims are forgotten by everybody except the communities who are taking them in and providing help without the help of Federal or State aid.
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Maybe because the bodies of dead Americans were floating in the streets?
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Originally posted by rpm
Maybe because the bodies of dead Americans were floating in the streets?
And the government is responsible for that? Just because these people were morons and didn't leave? I don't recall our constitution giving any garuntee of your personal safety.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
"... Instead of just movong on into the relief and recovery stage, we have to pause and figure out who is responsible and who will have to pay for their irresponsibility. Meanwhile the victims are forgotten... "
Ever heard of multi-tasking? :) I don't see any politicians or talking heads tasked with rescuing people, so it's probably safe to assume that these two things can happen at the same time. There is no "pausing." All the same, I don't actually believe that matters of taste nor concern for the victims (or in your words - "morons") prompted your reply.
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Originally posted by Nash
Ever heard of multi-tasking? :) I don't see any politicians or talking heads tasked with rescuing people, so it's probably safe to assume that these two things can happen at the same time. There is no "pausing." All the same, I don't actually believe that matters of taste nor concern for the victims (or in your words - "morons") prompted your reply.
Frankly I don't have much concern for the victims..even attempting to walk out of town before the storm came would have been smarter than trying to stay there. As far as I'm concerned those who stayed couldn't have expected any more than what happened. Did you happen to see how they treated the very expensive shelter they were provided with? And their behavor inside that shelter before and During the storm?
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Frankly I don't have much concern for the victims...
Then you'll excuse everyone for trying to get to the bottom of it without your feigned concern for these "morons."
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Originally posted by ASTAC
And the government is responsible for that? Just because these people were morons and didn't leave? I don't recall our constitution giving any garuntee of your personal safety.
Forgive them, for they know not what they speak.
Originally posted in the Declaration of Independance
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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geesh Nash what did I do to you?
Look, I do care, but the fact that NOTHINg can happen today without someone pointing a political finger at someone in order to win brownie points with the public is EXTREMELY frustrating...I've watched the news and read newspapers all my life, and NEVER until about the mid 90's did I see verything that goes on in life have some sort of POLITICAL stuff associated with it.
I'm just sick and tired of it is all. The "victims" are the ones everybody should be concerned with. As with everything mistakes were made by EVERYBODY in charge. No plan and no person is perfect so stuff will happen. Why can't we just pick up from the mistakes and move on?
And RPM the Declaration of Independence is NOT our governing document:lol
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Yeah, the Declaration of Independance is just another LIBERAL rant. Sorry ASTAC, you've lost all cred.
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Originally posted by rpm
Yeah, the Declaration of Independance is just another LIBERAL rant. Sorry ASTAC, you've lost all cred.
It was an document of ideology, but not a foundation for our government. It also was a document of accusations to justify our split from england..have you ever read the whole thing? It's a great peice of work, but not what governs our land.
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0% cred.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Originally posted by rpm
I can't believe you guys are defending Dubya after he stepped up to the plate and apologuised for his obvious failure in handling this disaster. On second thought, yes I can believe it.
Why don't you pick up a copy of Newsweek and read just exactly what happened and how it was handled? Oh wait, that is just the liberal media. Perhaps you should tune to your "Fair and Balanced" Fox News Channel and watch their coverage, or are they now just the liberal media?
It's pretty a universal conclusion that Bush screwed the pooch on this one. It's also his own conclusion. Or is he just some ignorant liberal?
Enlighten us. How is it "Bush" failed?
Seems to me the organizations under him failed in the disaster. Not him personally other then by doing what every political person in power does in both parties. Which is putting beurocrates into positions they arent qualified to run.
That was resolved though after the fact by the resigning (read firing) of Brown
But he is top dog so its only natural that he accept responsibility for what happened. Still the blame isnt all Bush's either. Plenty of blame to go around still all the way down to the level of the N.O. Mayor. Whom if he had done like he should have in the first place alot of people woudlnt have been stuck there and alot of people would still be alive now without the need for federal assistance
But as the person in charge you expect the people under you to do what they are supposed to do when they are supposed to do it. When things go wrong you take the responsibility, just as when things go right you accept the credit. Even though you personally may not have been the one to have done anything other then issue the order of "get it done"
So unless Bush specifically didnt do something he was supposed to and I havent seen any indication of that he personally didnt fail.
the people under him did. And as the man in charge he is naturally accepting responsibility for the failure of his subordinates.
While Newsweek is certainly a credible publication
I think two weeks after the fact is probably still too soon to know everything there is to know.
And this story seems to be changing almost by the day
And it will take some time before everything is correctly sorted out as to who did or didnt do what,when, and how
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pssst... DREDIOCK... you didn't really say anything there.
I do it all the time too... that's how I can spot it.
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Originally posted by rpm
0% cred.
quote:We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Where does it say that your life is the responsibility of the Government?
The local and state Governments fulfilled the part of "promote the general welfare" when they told people they need to leave BEFORE the storm.
Of course what hurts the most is I've lost all credability with yet another faceless typist on a BBS, that has no effect on my day to day life...guess I should be lucky you aren't soemone that matters.
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So, it's pass the buck?
Originally posted by President Harry S. Truman
The Buck stops here.
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If not for the welfare of its citizens (and no, don't get your panties in a bunch, welfare aint synonymous with a check), what's the point of having a government at all? What are you paying them for, then?
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Can someone please show me where Bush apologized, because I can't find a quote anywhere.
And to reiterate, Bush said he takes responsibility. Okay, what does that mean? So far there are words, how is going to back them up?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Can someone please show me where Bush apologized, because I can't find a quote anywhere.
And to reiterate, Bush said he takes responsibility. Okay, what does that mean? So far there are words, how is going to back them up?
Laying blame doesn't pump out New Orleans either.
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Originally posted by Nash
pssst... DREDIOCK... you didn't really say anything there.
I do it all the time too... that's how I can spot it.
Odd. I think I did.
What was it I didnt say? LOL
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Laying blame doesn't pump out New Orleans either.
I'm with ya Holden.
Lets watch with all the passion of robots. Lets question, not.
Because I'm certain that these questions only get in the way. They impede. And given a silent populace, the government would be without distraction and be better able to get it right the next time. Lives are at stake, it turns out. If only we would just shut up.
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Point your finger and yell very loud, get angry and lay blame.
Or pick up a bucket and bail.
Which do you truely think is more effective?
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Both.
One to mitigate the current disaster, and the other to prevent a future one.
Hard concept?
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The important concept is the one you fail to grasp.
It is much more effective to bail using both hands. Finger pointing hinders the process.
When you are up to your bellybutton in alligators, it is best to deal with and solve that problem.
Instead we (in the short term) waste time being angry and making policy for the future while still submerged.
The Patriot act was passed in the heat of passion following 9/11. See how good passion and policy mix?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The Patriot act was passed in the heat of passion following 9/11. See how good passion and policy mix?
The scary thing is that there are people today that will argue with you on whether it's a good law or not.
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Originally posted by Nash
Both.
One to mitigate the current disaster, and the other to prevent a future one.
Hard concept?
Then let the investigation of the local governments failures begin immediately.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The important concept is the one you fail to grasp.
It is much more effective to bail using both hands. Finger pointing hinders the process.
When you are up to your bellybutton in alligators, it is best to deal with and solve that problem.
Instead we (in the short term) waste time being angry and making policy for the future while still submerged.
The Patriot act was passed in the heat of passion following 9/11. See how good passion and policy mix?
Not very good at all. Interesting to see you recognizing that whilst riding in the way-back machine but failing to put it together on the ride home.
Finger pointing hinders the process? No, Holden. Finger pointing is part of the process. Anyone who tells ya differently has got something to hide.
Listen to you!
Alligators up to our asses, the future submerged, the heat of passion.
This is a last resort....
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Originally posted by Nash
Not very good at all. Interesting to see you recognizing that whilst riding in the way-back machine but failing to put it together on the ride home.
Finger pointing hinders the process? No, Holden. Finger pointing is part of the process. Anyone who tells ya differently has got something to hide.
Listen to you!
Alligators up to our asses, the future submerged, the heat of passion.
This is a last resort....
Okay Nash.
I'll try to explain one more time.
When your house in burning down, do you stop and figure out why the fire started, who was to blame, was the response time of the fire department appropriate, did the fire department have it's budget cut, ... or do you gather up your family and get out?
I submit that the first thing to do is to save your family. The second thing to do is douse the flames or call the fire department if you need help. The third thing to do is figure out where you will stay tonite, get the kids calmed down and get them some food.
Then get in touch with insurance, look at the next few weeks as a time frame and then figure out why the house burned down, whether the fire department response time was appropriate, whether you should picket the mayors office for cutting the budget of the fire department.
You seem to think you should be painting picket signs while your house is still burning.
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Originally posted by Sandman
The scary thing is that there are people today that will argue with you on whether it's a good law or not.
Indeed. Like the majority of the House of Representatives.
CNN: ...The final vote was 257-171. The bill makes permanent 14 of 16 provisions in the act set to expire next year and extends two others for another 10 years...
In the final tally, 14 Republicans bucked Bush and the party leadership to vote against the Patriot Act renewal. Among Democrats, 43 supported it, while 156 voted no.
However, a number of top Democrats supported the bill, including five members of the party's House leadership -- Steny Hoyer, the minority whip; Robert Menendez and Jim Clyburn, the chairman and vice chairman of the Democratic caucus; John Spratt, assistant minority leader; and Rahm Emanuel, who chairs the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.
The ranking Democrats on the Intelligence and Armed Services committees -- Reps. Jane Harman and Ike Skelton -- also voted yes.
and the Senate voted unanimously on their version.
WASHINGTON The U.S. Senate has voted unanimously to make permanent nearly all the main provisions of the law known as the USA Patriot Act, after Republican leaders agreed to include additional civil rights safeguards and to forestall any expansion of the government's counterterrorism powers
So I guess somebody thinks it has value.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Okay Nash.
I'll try to explain one more time.
When your house in burning down....
Don't patronize me with this "I'll try to explain one more time" garbage. Who do you think you are?
Are you trying to be trite? Intentionally? Because while your response to a house fire is decidedly appropriate, we aint talking about a house fire here.
You wanna create some kind of relationship between painting fences while a house burns, but that just aint realistic. It don't even tug at the heart strings.
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Nash, where would you start with the investigations and why?
I would start with the obvious: The local government's total failure to follow their own evacuation plan is just the begining of the failures at their level.
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Who do I think I am? I am someone who knows the difference between a picket sign and a picket fence.
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How luscious for you Holden.
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(http://www.fpsoftlab.com/images/screenshots/earth-640x480-2.jpg)
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That's supposed to mean what?
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What does it mean to you?
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Planet earth is blue and there's nothing you can do, Nash?
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Dudes like you go out of their way to give a free pass to those who wanna screw the planet up.... so I can only assume that yer posting a picture of the earth is as if to say "To the victor, the spoils!"
Close?
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No, more like
"Open the pod bay doors, Hal"
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Yeah baby.
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Originally posted by Nash
Dudes like you go out of their way to give a free pass to those who wanna screw the planet up....
I think people like you are srewing up the planet. I am in the majority in my country too.
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Or maybe it's....
There's only one guy left on Planet Earth that doesn't realize there's going to be a lot of investigation, analysis, reorganization, preparation, finger pointing, blaming and denying once we get things in the Gulf Coast region reasonably squared away.
See that guy down there? That's him.. the only one.
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But Toad, the important thing is to be as shrill and mindless as possible so we can get to the "botttom" of Bush's failure.
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Originally posted by Toad
Or maybe it's....
There's only one guy left on Planet Earth that doesn't realize there's going to be a lot of investigation, analysis, reorganization, preparation, finger pointing, blaming and denying once we get things in the Gulf Coast reason reasonably squared away.
See that guy down there? That's him.. the only one.
You talking about Holden, Gunslinger, ASTAC, Lasersailor, AWmac or Drediok?
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Naw... I'm certain they realize that once things are reasonably squared away there will be an accounting for the loss of life and property.
Starting.
With.
The.
Mayor.
And.
Working.
Up.
From.
There.
To.
The.
Feds.
So, it has to be someone else.
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In.
Your.
Dreams.
"Once things are reasonably squared away."
Toad - you have a future on the comedy circuit.
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The local officials performed flawlessly in the face of the federal government's attempt to drown all the poor black people of N.O.
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Nobody's talking to ya.
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me? You are somebody Nash, don't let anyone tell you different.
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Nash, if you had grasped the concept I was I was articulating you would realize while I expect the blame game, I realize it is a hinderance to recovery if it comes into the process to soon.
Blaming someone never solved a problem. It problem is solved by hard work.
Get your famiy out of ther burning house first... blame later... and even after you affix blame, you still have to rebuild the house.
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I'll tell you who is to blame.
1. The Hurricane.
2. The people who refused to get out ( not one's unable to)
3. The mayor of N.O.
4. The Gov. of LA
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Go ahead.
Say it. Put it in print.
Say you don't think there will be investigation, analysis, reorganization, preparation, finger pointing, blaming and denying AFTER the power comes back on, the water is safe to drink, the people are being fed and housed.
Post.
It.
For.
The.
Record.
Nash:[/i]
In.
Your.
Dreams.
"Once things are reasonably squared away."
Toad - you have a future on the comedy circuit.
You, otoh, have apparently launched your new career already.
(http://www.espacelotto.com/images/specsimage.jpg)
Good luck, Major Tom!
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And just for some perspective. There have been under 1000 deaths attributed to this "monumental" Bush caused hurricane.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nash, if you had grasped the concept I was I was articulating you would realize while I expect the blame game, I realize it is a hinderance to recovery if it comes into the process to soon.
Blaming someone never solved a problem. It problem is solved by hard work.
Get your famiy out of ther burning house first... blame later... and even after you affix blame, you still have to rebuild the house.
Holden, are you asking me to believe that the first responders et al are too busy standing in front of a mic to be able to save people? Are you asking me to believe that people have died and are dying because of the the "blame game?"
Are you saying that questioning a problem serves only to exacerbate it? Do you really think that observing and questioning the response to a disaster serves no purpose? And do you really believe that if these questions don't get asked now, that they will ever have a hope in hell of being asked again?
Thars folks in NOLA saving people, finally. Don't worry yourself over it. In the meantime, folks are gonna ask questions. Don't take it personally.
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So, there needs to be an investigation Nash? I didn't hear you asking for an investigation for the recent Tsunami. What about the earthquaks in Iran? You are silent on those.
Katrina caused less than 1000 deaths and you want blood?
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Toad - did you drink the water?
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I love idealistic people like Nash. They go about their lives without any clue, yet they think they know what is up.
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Godzilla - I don't even know you. I could care less what you did or did not hear from me.
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Nash, that's ironic. You are a liberal Canadian who thinks any American cares about your crazy thought process.
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If you could care less, that means you must care at least a little...
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Will the question "why did the levee break", you know...where it failed at "a section that was just upgraded. It did not have an earthen levee. It had a vertical concrete wall several feet thick"...
be most accurately answered while the water is pouring through the break or after the floodwaters are pumped out and engineers get a look at it?
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I may spar with Toad or Holden or etc..... But I respect them.
Don't get confused by that.
You?
I could care less. Who are you even?
Never mind. Nighty night.
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Nash, what other country on earth do you take interest in or post about?
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Originally posted by Nash
Toad - did you drink the water?
Did you take the brown acid?
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Originally posted by Nash
I may spar with Toad or Holden or etc..... But I respect them.
you think you are sparing? What you are is a punching bag to those guys.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
you think you are sparing? What you are is a punching bag to those guys.
christ yer like a spambot.
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Nash, why have you been so silent about the response to the tsunami? Don't you feel we should investigate the fact that there was no early warning system in place? Who's to blame??
Nash, you are just a shrill, screaching liberal fanatic, in my opinion.
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The tsunami killed how many Nash? And there was no warning system in place. Why did we not here from you about the failures in this case?
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People like Nash are almost comical.
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Nash, what other national disasters from around the world do you follow and ***** about?
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Originally posted by Iceman24
All week long I have been defending the bush admin over this whole NO / Katrina deal, I wake up this morning and GW is on tv apologizing to the people of NO for doing a crappy job. I'm done with this guy, trash and bash him all you want, you won't find me tring to defend him anymore... he's a freakin tard
Because he acts like a man and apologizes, you're going to give up on him? Not many things I like about Bush, but I admire his humility. Takes a man to be humble and apologize. Only way really to fix short comings is to recognize them first.
Whether it's just "politics" or not, at least it's a step in the right direction.
I'm not so sure it's a loss to the administration to have fair weather "support" like you're showing here.
What I find "retarded" is your labeling him a tard, just because he admits to some responsibility?
Dang, don't take it so hard, life moves on.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Untrue.
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and that the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.
Yay ... does it mean that he gonna pay those $150 bil from his own pocket ?
Or it does mean, that he will go to the jail instead all those people who commited crimes during the diseaster ?
Or its some special kind of retaking responsibility ?
ummm tell me
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Originally posted by Iceman24
All week long I have been defending the bush admin over this whole NO / Katrina deal, I wake up this morning and GW is on tv apologizing to the people of NO for doing a crappy job. I'm done with this guy, trash and bash him all you want, you won't find me tring to defend him anymore... he's a freakin tard
I can't belive anyone bit on this idiotic troll. Nice work Ice I am glad I only wasted my time on your post not the rest of ths thread :rofl
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Realty TV? I think its roots are from watching these exchanges like Godzilla and Nash. :D (Waves to Nash, who won't read this until he gets out of bed which will be, ohhhh, noonish..) :D
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Originally posted by Nash
Dudes like you go out of their way to give a free pass to those who wanna screw the planet up.... so I can only assume that yer posting a picture of the earth is as if to say "To the victor, the spoils!"
Close?
Lemme see if I can remmember how this George Carlin Bit goes.
"I'm getting tired of that *****. . I'm tired of Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a ***** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fu@#ed. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere.
WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your *****, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either.
Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac.
The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet's doing?
Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing.
You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week.
Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic.
The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place.
It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...stunninghunk":D
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Originally posted by rpm
0% cred.
You speaking of yourself?
Promote the general welfare...
Promote does not mean provide.
...effect their safety and happiness...
Effect does not mean guarantee.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Because he acts like a man and apologizes, you're going to give up on him? Not many things I like about Bush, but I admire his humility. Takes a man to be humble and apologize.
I heard today that the Governor has admitted to making mistakes and apologized too. I expect phase two of the blame game to be a race to see who can take more blame and thus look better when re-election comes. Our only hope might be if nobody ever gets re-elected to any office anywhere. Politics should never be a career, fear anyone who spends a few million dollars to get a job that pays $100,000.
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I blame canada.... let's go kick their butts.
I also think that boosh should move all the poor people into areas that are free from natural disasters... only rich or upper middle class people should live in disaster prone areas. end of problem.
lazs
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Isn't it true that he was on vacation(for 3 days) while bodies were floating down the street's of NO?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I blame canada.... let's go kick their butts.
Not worth the effort, let em stew in their irrelevance I say.
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yeah ed but at least now the canadians have a right to be in this thread.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah ed but at least now the canadians have a right to be in this thread.
LOL, yup, and with my post they have a right and a motive :D
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they have never needed a motive in the past.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I blame canada.... let's go kick their butts.
I also think that boosh should move all the poor people into areas that are free from natural disasters... only rich or upper middle class people should live in disaster prone areas. end of problem.
lazs
I think they should just move em all to Texas.
I keep hearing how big and how great it is they must have plenty of room.:)
This would also help to serve as a counter balance to the illegal immigrants.
then the poor could have all those low paying jobs the illegals tend to get. the illegals not being able to find work here either would go back to mexico where they flipping belong:aok
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
This would also help to serve as a counter balance to the illegal immigrants.
then the poor could have all those low paying jobs the illegals tend to get. the illegals not being able to find work here either would go back to mexico where they flipping belong:aok
Yanno the more I think about this idea. The more I like it.
We could probably save billions if we moved all the welfare recipients to areas where illegals are comming in.
Make welfare contingent on them taking these low paying jobs illegals usually get (you dont do the jobs you dont get the welfare)
And being in Texas. a typically warm state we would save on heating and clothing costs for these people.
This would as i said make it harder for the illegals to find work here and they might soon figure out they are better off on their side of the border.
We can turn Texas into THE welfare state! LOL
Oh and we can cut off any extradidtion agreements we have with Mexico. Then those that dont want to work and do crime instead can know all they haveta do is cross the Rio Grande and escape to mexico. Where as far as Im concerned. they can stay. Then they will become Mexicos problem.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
It was an document of ideology, but not a foundation for our government. It also was a document of accusations to justify our split from england..have you ever read the whole thing? It's a great peice of work, but not what governs our land.
It was the fricking framework for the Constitution! All of the "Ideologies" were incorporated within the Constitution.
BTW, RPM <> for mentioning that, most forget what it says.
Karaya
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why think small? move em all to cananda where they will be safe.
lazs
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And being in Texas. a typically warm state we would save on heating and clothing costs for these people.
You should see my summer electric bill...LOL!
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Originally posted by Edbert
You should see my summer electric bill...LOL!
You should see mine.
then after that you can look at my wintertime heating bill.
And here we tend to have a very short spring and fall. usually only a couple weeks or so.
Lately we tend to go right from from freezing in the winter to sweating in the summer and vice verse.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Isn't it true that he was on vacation(for 3 days) while bodies were floating down the street's of NO?
Well if the Canadian Press was telling you so, then it MUST be TRUE!:confused:
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Originally posted by Edbert
Not worth the effort, let em stew in their irrelevance I say.
Tell the Afghanis that we are irrelevant.
Regarding criticising the Bush administration I think Jon Stewart said it best. It seems that it's never the right time and they use the last crisis as the reason. They can't be critised anytime after 9/11 because the US just got attacked by terrorists. Can't critise them after Iraq was invade because, damnit the US is at war. Can't critise them now, because damnit NO got flooded.
But that implies a false dilemma. That taking care of the crisis can't happen concurrently with critisism.
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Hmmmmmmmmmm......
Thrawn may have a point here.
To date, I've never seen ANYONE.... not in the print media, not in the visual media, no public speakers... ever criticize the Bush administration about anything. Come to think of it, I don't think the Bush admin has ever been criticized here on the BBS!
It's all been completely "positive press" now that I think about it.
We should investigate this much more seriously.
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Originally posted by Edbert
I heard today that the Governor has admitted to making mistakes and apologized too. I expect phase two of the blame game to be a race to see who can take more blame and thus look better when re-election comes. Our only hope might be if nobody ever gets re-elected to any office anywhere. Politics should never be a career, fear anyone who spends a few million dollars to get a job that pays $100,000.
That's what the rich want. They bankroll their politicians to govern, pass laws that benefit them. It takes some serious money to run for office. Those debts have to paid back one way or another. Usually it involves our tax money.
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Originally posted by Toad
Hmmmmmmmmmm......
Thrawn may have a point here.
To date, I've never seen ANYONE.... not in the print media, not in the visual media, no public speakers... ever criticize the Bush administration about anything. Come to think of it, I don't think the Bush admin has ever been criticized here on the BBS!
It's all been completely "positive press" now that I think about it.
We should investigate this much more seriously.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
Hmmmmmmmmmm......
Thrawn may have a point here.
To date, I've never seen ANYONE.... not in the print media, not in the visual media, no public speakers... ever criticize the Bush administration about anything. Come to think of it, I don't think the Bush admin has ever been criticized here on the BBS!
It's all been completely "positive press" now that I think about it.
We should investigate this much more seriously.
:lol :rofl
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm
Jack Kelly: No shame
The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed
Sunday, September 11, 2005
It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.
Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).
"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.
But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.
Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:
"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."
For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.
Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.
So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.
I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:
More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.
The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.
Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.
Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:
"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.
"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.
"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.
"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."
"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.
Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.
Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.
And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.
Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.
The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.
A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Correction/Clarification: (Published 9/12/05) -- Hurricane Andrew struck Florida in 1992, not 2002.)
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Originally posted by lazs2
why think small? move em all to cananda where they will be safe.
lazs
Only if we can have em all move in next door to Nash :D
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Originally posted by Edbert
I heard today that the Governor has admitted to making mistakes and apologized too.
Her office later claimed that she never did.
I have to wonder about some of you guys that want to do nothing but blame Bush for everything.
Blanco filled the paperwork out in a timely manner but her actual request for help came to late.
Strange how that never gets reported.
I think the only thing Bush has to apologize for is the plan that was made for this type of incident didn't work.
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I humbly apologize.
That'll get me some street cred...