Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: easymo on September 19, 2001, 01:12:00 PM
-
I bet the Marines are sweating. Afghanistan is a thousand miles from water. The Marines may be forced to watch this one on T.V.. This looks like a Ranger show. He he.
Go Army!
-
Thus begins the great race to determine who owns the "power projection" hat in the U.S. Dept. of Defense, Air Force or Navy?
-
sweet: Sugary
sweat: perspiration
One fricking word in the title and you screw it up ;)
AKDejaVu
<edit>LOL!... guess you did get it right ;) <- just reread your post</edit>
AKDejaVu
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
-
Actually; time for inter-force rivalry is past..
Besides; it'll still be OUR GUYS (and Gals now), and you can bet ALL branches will have their piece of the action. :)
-
It's not a rivalry. It's about funding.
The current crisis won't change that, but it will highlight deficiencies in much the same way that the Southwest Asia campaign highlighted the problems with USAF airborne EW platforms and resulted in their cutting the EF-111 from the inventory, leaving only the USN EA-6B to do tactical stand-off EW missions.
-
Southwest Asia campaign highlighted the problems with USAF airborne EW platforms and resulted in their cutting the EF-111 from the inventory, leaving only the USN EA-6B to do tactical stand-off EW missions.
You mean there was a Southwest Asia campaign after the Gulf War?
EF-111As have been in service since the 70s... through the 80s and 90s. I have not yet heard of their retirement. They were the first aircraft into Iraq and cleared the way for the first F-117 attack.
AKDejaVu
-
As of 1998, there was a single EF-111 squadron at Cannon AFB, the 429th ECS.
According to this link (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/429ecs.htm), the 429th ECS was inactivated in June of 1998.
If there are any active EF-111 in the U.S. inventory, I am unaware of them.
-
I think the Navy is going to carry most of the load on this one.
We're going into conflict with more than one Muslim nation over the next decades.
The rest of them, even the "moderates" or friendly ones are not going to allow US basing for very long, if at all.
They might let us clean out one or two neighborhood bullies for them but then it'll be time to leave.
So, anchors aweigh my boys.
-
Hope not toad.
The Navy once fired a short round while aiming over us. This round struck a supply depot. More to the point, a bunker housing our beer supply. This was a source of consternation to myself and my fellow soldiers. As I recall, there were even some unkind comments directed towards the U.S. Navy at the time. As for myself I have had some doubts about that branch ever since.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]
-
Easy, probably just an entrepreneurial Navy Chief with some extra beer to sell. Figured out a quick way to create a market and serve it. ;)
-
LOL
-
As of 1998, there was a single EF-111 squadron at Cannon AFB, the 429th ECS.
According to this link, the 429th ECS was inactivated in June of 1998.
If there are any active EF-111 in the U.S. inventory, I am unaware of them.
LOL! OK.. but I thought you said:
The current crisis won't change that, but it will highlight deficiencies in much the same way that the Southwest Asia campaign highlighted the problems with USAF airborne EW platforms and resulted in their cutting the EF-111 from the inventory, leaving only the USN EA-6B to do tactical stand-off EW missions.
I have a tendancy to believe that the major contributing factor to the EF-111A being decomissioned in 98 had a tad bit to do with the fact that the airframes were 31-32 years old. I don't even know if the EF-111A saw action in SouthWest Asia. Seems to me, the EF was a retrofitted F-111A whose mod was done in the mid 70's some time.
I've never heard anyone associate the phrase "problems" with its performance exept for you. I do believe you may be confusing the stabilizer problems of the F-111A early in its life with any perceived EF-111A problems.
Hey.. just found this to add some fact to your fiction:
From Aviation Enthusiast's Corner (http://www.aero-web.org/specs/genedyna/ef-111a.htm):
Development of the EF-111A Raven began in January 1975 when the Air Force contracted with Grumman Aerospace to modify two F-111As to serve as electronic warfare platforms. The F-111”¡ high speed, long range, substantial payload and reasonable cost made it the ideal candidate to protect allied tactical forces against enemy radar defenses.
I'm not a super history buff... but when did that "Soutwest Asia Campaign" end?
<edit>DOH! Just realized there's a big difference between Southwest Asia and Southeast.
Seems alot happened to them since 94... but it had nothing to do with their effectiveness... once again... that was never questioned. As a matter of fact, I've heard nothing but praise for them in regards to their effectiveness in the Iraq conflict</Edit>
AKDejaVu
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
-
Poor choice of words... I should not have used the word, "problems".
Put it this way... As a result of restructuring of DoD assets, the EF-111 was retired in favor of the EA-6B. One could assume that the DoD kept the most capable EW platform.
I've found nothing to indicate any serious modernization programs for the EF-111 EW systems and subsystems after the initial installation of ALR-62, ALQ-99 and ALQ-137 in 1983.
I'm also generalizing by using the term, Southwest Asia Campaign. There were actually three separate campaigns in Southwest Asia: "Defense of Saudi Arabia" 02AUG90-16JAN91, "Liberation and Defense of Kuwait" 17JAN91-11APR91, and "Soutwest Asia Cease-fire" 12APR91-30NOV95.
Happy now?
-
DOUBLE POST (Not sure how that happened)... friggin network.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
-
Happy? Nope... not when you start dissing my bird ;)
And, to assume DoD does anything based on actual capability is a stretch.
I do know that maintenance on the F-111 was not a pleasure. The F-111A fighters had been retired some 8 years earlier because the airframes were giving out. Sounds like they prolonged the life of the EFs as long as they could. All F-111A and EF-111A birds were built in 66-67 timeframe.
You also have to consider that Grumman was the company that retrofitted the EF-111A and makes the EA-6. Is it better to go with an airframe/jamming combination supported by one company or two? Who would have had more interest in lobbying for their aircraft to stay in service? Dunno... seems some huge assumptions as far as "capability" are made when politics are more of a factor.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Happy? Nope... not when you start dissing my bird ;)
Wasn't my intention. There aren't many warfare areas where USN and USAF share so many capabilities. EW seemed to be as good place as any to start. Regarding F-111, you're probably more of an expert than I. My knowledge of EF-111 comes solely from comparisons to EA-6B.
And, to assume DoD does anything based on actual capability is a stretch.
We all have our fantasies. :) I believe the first EA-6B entered service in 1971. The EXCAP models were delivered in 1973, ICAP models in 1977 and ICAP II in 1984. As I stated before, I have no knowledge of significant EF-111 upgrade programs. If there were indeed, your politics argument certainly carries more weight.
I do know that maintenance on the F-111 was not a pleasure. The F-111A fighters had been retired some 8 years earlier because the airframes were giving out. Sounds like they prolonged the life of the EFs as long as they could. All F-111A and EF-111A birds were built in 66-67 timeframe.
You also have to consider that Grumman was the company that retrofitted the EF-111A and makes the EA-6. Is it better to go with an airframe/jamming combination supported by one company or two? Who would have had more interest in lobbying for their aircraft to stay in service? Dunno... seems some huge assumptions as far as "capability" are made when politics are more of a factor.
AKDejaVu
Maybe you're right... maybe the Navy did win a political battle against the Air Force which in itself is funny simply because many in the Navy consider the Air Force to be much better political players.
Still... the EA-6B is almost as old as the EF-111 and the F-14 is also quite old... both types can still be found in active inventory.
-
Because of the limited "friendy" territory, does anyone think we may occupy? Not for territorial gain in as much as for tactical support?
Any thoughts?
-
Actually, the original EA-6s are quite old... it still seems they are being ether built or converted at a depot level base by the original aircraft manufacturer.
The EF-111As that transfered from Mt Home to Cannon did so because it was felt more EA-6s would be needed prior to the 111s retirement. I suppose those came from somewhere.
AKDejaVu
-
True, the A-6 are quite old, but I think the EA-6B were entirely new airframes unlike the EF-111 that used slightly modified F-111A.
If you recall, the A-6 sits 2, the EA-6B sits 4. That in and of itself is a major design change.
Oh... and you're also correct on the numbers. I believe there were roughly 120 EA-6B compared to the 40 EF-111.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
-
As a sidenote on the EA-6B... it doesn't look like the US Air Force is going to be relying on Navy EA-6Bs ;):
http://www.iss.northgrum.com/products/navy_products/ea6b/ea6b.html (http://www.iss.northgrum.com/products/navy_products/ea6b/ea6b.html)
The handiness of having a facility that still supports its aircraft is incredible. It makes up for the fact that you now have to use a subsonic flying turd ;)
I've liked the A-6 ever since I read "Flight of the Intruder". I just never thought I'd see one with "USAF" painted on it.
AKDejaVu
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
-
subsonic flying turd
:D
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
As of 1998, there was a single EF-111 squadron at Cannon AFB, the 429th ECS.
According to this link (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/429ecs.htm), the 429th ECS was inactivated in June of 1998.
If there are any active EF-111 in the U.S. inventory, I am unaware of them.
This is true. On the several OSW and ONW deployments we saw the navy take up that role there. In OSw hey would fly both from ship and shore stations while ONW the EA6's were out of Incirlik. There are no longer any "f-111" units that I know of, even gaurd or reserve.
-
The Rangers Bats are much more capable than any other infantry unit to move in and secure a small area in a short time. Its a unit in which you have to Volunteer not once, or twice but essentialy 3 times for, so the indivduals are highly motivated. Its an understanding there is a chance of death even in the training. You get to mess with and do things few others ever hear about or would even WANT to do. They have even changed it so that only troops in thier 2nd tour ie "seasoned" can join I think. Anyway I hope if they DO use them they'll have the friggen support they should...not like in a certain African country where the good'ol UN Command diddlyed them royaly.
xBAT
-
USN swabbing the deck: "This sucks"
Army in the middle of the desert: "This really sucks"
Marines in a rainy jungle: "I love how much this sucks!"
USAF sitting on the couch: "My remote broke, this totally sucks"
-
Thus explains our love and adoration for the USAF... LOL.
-
Spot on. He he he.