Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Karnak on September 20, 2005, 01:22:20 AM
-
Private Johnson Beharry was awarded the Victoria Cross for two actions in Iraq. This is the first Victoria Cross awared since two posthumous VCs were awarded for actions in the Falkland Islands.
The full citation can be found here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4360461.stm
A couple of snippets:
The vehicle was hit again by sustained rocket-propelled grenade attack from insurgent fighters in the alleyways and on rooftops around his vehicle.
Further damage to the Warrior from these explosions caused it to catch fire and fill rapidly with thick, noxious smoke. Beharry opened up his armoured hatch cover to clear his view and orientate himself to the situation.
The impact of this rocket destroyed Beharry's armoured periscope, so he was forced to drive the vehicle through the remainder of the ambushed route, some 1,500 metres long, with his hatch opened up and his head exposed to enemy fire, all the time with no communications with any other vehicle.
During this long surge through the ambushes the vehicle was again struck by rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire.
While his head remained out of the hatch, to enable him to see the route ahead, he was directly exposed to much of this fire, and was himself hit by a 7.62mm bullet, which penetrated his helmet and remained lodged on its inner surface.
The Victoria Cross is the United Kingdom's highest medal for valour, and is very comparable to a Medal of Honor.
Private Johnson Beharry and well done.
-
Wow... wtg!
Brave man. :)
-
I cant imagine what it takes to perform like that.
-
-
Umm, maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem that great of a feat.
I've heard of far more brave and difficult things in Iraq.
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Umm, maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem that great of a feat.
I've heard of far more brave and difficult things in Iraq.
Maybe it is you or maybe there should be a few more VC's and Medals of Honour handed out. It think it's the latter for political reasons. Certain people in power don't want you think it's a real war. It's real enough though.
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Maybe it is you or maybe there should be a few more VC's and Medals of Honour handed out. It think it's the latter for political reasons. Certain people in power don't want you think it's a real war. It's real enough though.
Its not a real war. We haven't had a real war since World War II.
-
Originally posted by AdmRose
Its not a real war. We haven't had a real war since World War II.
How about we drop you down in the middle of it and then you can tell us how real it is.
-
Maybe he meant total war.
I dont believe Iraq has risen to the level of "total war".
-
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
How about we drop you down in the middle of it and then you can tell us how real it is.
Bingo!
"Real war", or not, those men and women are being called upon to do a nasty job. They deserve all the praise we can give 'em when stuff like this happens. When grenades and bullets are flyin, it' too "real" for me.
-
agreed!
-
I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve praise. I just don't think it deserves the top medal.
-
Cannot take anything away from Beharry, he was incredibly brave. I believe it may be down to the fact that the MOD has come under increasing criticism for not giving out the top award. Read the below, this apparently happened before the Beharry incident and was refused.
EXCLUSIVE
By Richard Smith And Patrick Mulchrone
An SAS hero who killed 36 Iraqis to save the life of a stricken comrade could be denied a Victoria Cross - because he survived.
The 36-year-old British soldier was recommended for the gallantry medal by his commanding officers after he single-handedly held off enemy attackers in a two-hour gun battle when his unit was ambushed.
Despite being hit by shrapnel he then carried his shot and badly wounded colleague three miles to safety.
But special forces officers fear the brave corporal will be snubbed for the highest military honour because they say senior officials usually do not not give it to survivors.
Yesterday, a former general who commanded Special Forces said: "It would appear these days it is easier to achieve sainthood than to win a Victoria Cross while you are alive.
"Getting a soldier a VC is a lottery. And getting one for a member of Special Forces, whether he is SAS or the SBS, would appear to be nigh on impossible. The people in charge are paranoid about publicity, absolutely terrified of it.
"So even if his commander were to recommend a VC, those above would get the jitters.
"To deny a man a medal because everyone is frightened of publicity is bonkers. And that appears to be what it boils down to."
Allied Special Forces Association secretary Mike Colton added: "For that extraordinary act of bravery he must have a very high award. But there have been many acts of bravery within the special forces which have gone virtually unnoticed.
"Men have been mentioned in despatches during secret wars which have saved entire nations."
A military insider said: "They will raise the bar as high as possible citing the criteria needed to achieve the honour and they can probably make it up as they go. It is another pitiful example of this politically correct world we live in.
"The only things which should be considered are the individual's conspicuous act or gallantry."
But the MoD said: "It is a faultlessly fair system. Whatever he gets will be the right level of medal."
The corporal who was recommended for the honour is a former paratrooper from Liverpool.
He and an Australian colleague came under attack at close-quarters from machine gun fire and rocket propelled grenades in Baghdad when on a covert reconnaissance mission at an area heavily occupied by enemy forces engaged in terrorist activities..
Despite being under fire he gave medical aid to the Aussie, who had life-threatening injuries, while keeping the enemy at bay.
After escaping against all odds the two soldiers were finally airlifted to safety by helicopter.
In the corporal's medal recommendation his commanding officer said his "actions showed the highest level of valour and gallantry in the face of overwhelming number of enemy and in the rescue of the Australian Special Air Service Soldier".
Only one SAS officer has been awarded a Victoria Cross despite the regiment's glorious history. Dane Major Andres Lassen, 24, received the honour after his patrol was sent to cause mayhem at Lake Camacchio, Italy, in 1945.
He wiped out three positions against overwhelming odds then refused to be evacuated despite being mortally wounded.
It has been nearly 40 years since the last VC was awarded to a living recipient - Gurkha lance corporal Rambahadur Limbu. Only 11 of the medals, the first gallantry award open to all ranks, have been handed out since World War Two.
Gallantry decorations are recommended in the first instance by the individual soldier's superior officer, a squadron commander or company commander who writes a statement which goes before the commanding officer.
The final decision is made by the MoD Honours and Decorations Committee.
A spokesman said: "The recommendation goes through a checking process which can take several weeks and eventually the decision is made by the honours board which sits within the Ministry of Defence."
The corporal has spent eight years in the 22 SAS regiment - serving in D Squadron at the unit's new base in Credenhill, Hereford.
In a two-hour gun battle with terrorists, an SAS man aided a wounded comrade, despite being injured himself, killed 36 of the enemy, then fought his way out of the area, carrying the casualty for three miles
THE CITATION
Whilst serving in Iraq as part of a joint special forces patrol with members of the Australian Special Air Service Regiment and US Rangers, Corporal ******* was dispatched with a number of the Australian SAS to carry out reconnaissance in an area of Baghdad occupied by large numbers of foreign enemy fighters involved in acts of terrorism within Iraq. During the reconnaissance, Corporal ******* and the Australian SAS soldier came under enemy engagement consisting of heavy gunfire, involving close quarters battle, over a period of two hours. During this time the Australian SAS soldier sustained life-threatening gunshot injuries and trauma. Corporal ****** gave immediate medical assistance. Whilst still under heavy attack from RPG and machine gun fire at close quarters, Corporal ****** engaged the enemy and continued to give medical assistance to the Australian SAS soldier. Corporal *******, whilst administering medical assistance, returned fire on the enemy and called in air strike. Corporal *******, killed some 36 enemy. Whilst fighting his way out of the area, he carried the injured Australian SAS soldier on his back for three miles, before being airlifted out of the area by helicopter. Corporal ****** during the engagement sustained shrapnel injuries requiring a period of medical treatment back in UK. Corporal *********'s actions showed the highest level of valour and gallantry in the face of overwhelming number of enemy and in the rescue of the Australian SAS soldier. It is recommended to her Majesty that Corporal ********* be awarded the Victoria Cross"
-
It's a guerrilla war. War is a war.
Pscyhologically it might be worse than the "real war" - you don't know whos the enemy or where it is.
This guy is a really lucky chap, considering the bullet didn't struck a little bit lower.
In other news:
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/in_pictures_enl_1127210877/img/1.jpg)
A British soldier was engulfed in flames after his armoured vehicle came under attack from protesters during a day of unrest in Basra.
Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm
The video: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/shared/player/player.stm?title=British soldiers 'freed from militia'&clipurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da6800271d8/nb/09012da68002752b_16x9_nb!asx&cs=news
...needs guts to not mow down the crowd.
-
It's stupidity not to shoot those threatening you.
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
It's stupidity not to shoot those threatening you.
..and the next day it'd be all over the news: "The coalition forces opened fire at a crowd of civilians, killing tens and injuring hundreds"
After a week there'd be news of tortured and killed soldiers in huge riots.
-
This wasn't just a normal, boo ****in hoo riot. Though if you had actually read the story you would know that.
All these people were there with militant intent. You realize this when you give warning shots and they don't scatter.
Kind of like the movie Rush Hour. Chris Tucker yells bomb and only the bad guys are left behind.
-
Makes me wonder why don't we just shoot the irish rioters... hell, anti-globalism rioters could be shot just as well.
Besides, whatever you think those people are, who are throwing rocks and some even throwing molotovs at them, it is a fact that if the soldiers had fired into the crowd, it would have caused serious riots all around Iraq and the muslim world - call them all militants if you wish.
Even israelis, at their most fascistic times, have tried to avoid crowds and shooting into the crowds - on a long run it'd be just same as stabbing yourself in the stomach. They would've had at least ten times more suicide bombers.
-
I never said just take out the crowd. You should go after those who are immediately threatening you.
People will see that others are getting shot for throwing rocks and cocktails. The self preservation instinct kicks in.
And people who have reliable information would figure out what happened. I know what happened. I know what actually caused this whole fiasco.
Do you?
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
People will see that others are getting shot for throwing rocks and cocktails. The self preservation instinct kicks in.
You don't shoot people throwing rocks at you... they ALL are throwing rocks at you.
Israelis have received a mountain of rocks from the palestinians, including kids.. do you shoot them, too?
...and how are you going to pick out of the crowd the guy throwing a molotov?
Surely not without taking out half dozen others.