Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weazel on September 19, 2001, 04:54:00 PM
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'I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God,indivisible, and with liberty and justice for all.'
Where, and who are the 'men of God' in our country?
We have been wounded badly, our grief and anger as a Nation are possibly the highest ever in history.
I pray that no weapons of mass destruction are in the hands of terrorists and that no government will utilize any.
Where are the men of god these days, and are we spiritually bankrupt as a nation?
The Islamic fanatics and some ministers in the US seem to agree we are.
I'm afraid we're in for worse than Tom Clancy's imagination could provide - with a far nastier ending to the story. :(
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People seem to be talkiong about God a lot these days. Here's an interesting article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=216982&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&reportID=53510) on that whole thing.
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Um... do you really have any idea what you are talking about weazel?
Try reading the Bible some day. Hell.. you don't even have to read the whole thing... just Genesis and Exodus.
Read it, then come back here and dictate what men of God will, won't, should or shouldn't do.
AKDejaVu
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AMEN
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I like this one better...
I solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.
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Originally posted by weazel:
'I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God,indivisible, and with liberty and justice for all.'
Where, and who are the 'men of God' in our country?
We have been wounded badly, our grief and anger as a Nation are possibly the highest ever in history.
I pray that no weapons of mass destruction are in the hands of terrorists and that no government will utilize any.
Where are the men of god these days, and are we spiritually bankrupt as a nation?
The Islamic fanatics and some ministers in the US seem to agree we are.
I'm afraid we're in for worse than Tom Clancy's imagination could provide - with a far nastier ending to the story. :(
Spiritually bankrupt? No, I think not. The fact that you don't see religion creeping its way into schools, politics and other public venues is a good thing. I think on an individual level, America is quite spiritual. However, for a government to function fairly it must be secular. Just look at the Teliban.
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Devout Bible believing Churches are on their knee's praying, that's where they are.
They put their faith in God Almighty, not in themselves, people on this BBS, or in the President of the USA. They are praitng for God to give this Nations leader(s) the discernment to make the right descision. They are praying for this country to have a revival of heart, to point their individual minds and hearts to God. They are Praying for God to Bless this nation, and to forgive it for turning its back on God. They are praying for quickness and resolve for this nations men and women in the armed forces. the list goes on.
The origional pledge of Allegiance is certainly more appropriate.
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
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I wonder if America thought the same thing at the onset of WWII?
It's kind of like the same thing we are going through today. Religious communities see this as an act of their god and some see this as the beginning of the end of the world.
The doom n gloom isn't necessary, afterall the catholic god supposedly knows everything we do before we do it. So if this is the end of the world, we can't stop it if it's already going to happen...
-SW
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In my extremely cynical view, religion got us into this mess. I highly doubt that it will get us out of it.
...but that's just me.
Your beliefs are your own. The fact that I may or may not share them doesn't diminish my love or support for this country and its people.
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well, back to back wars and endless untold suffering have been part of god's magic and mysterious plan since recorded history - maybe we should have a little more faith in ourselves for a change.
maybe if we live in the here and now instead of waiting for some eternal disneyland we'll make the real world a better place. what's so scary about the abyss? why does it make everyone need an invisible daddy?
these silly god fantasies have caused enough trouble already. :(
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
In my extremely cynical view, religion got us into this mess. I highly doubt that it will get us out of it.
...but that's just me.
Your beliefs are your own. The fact that I may or may not share them doesn't diminish my love or support for this country and its people.
I respect your right to believe as you will, just as I assume you do mine. My beliefs are held by millions, although I am no spokesmen for them. I too love this country, and its people. Second only to Christ Himself. I am AD USAF for 13.5 years and enjoy doignwhat i do for not a whole lot of money ;)
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FWIW, I served the USN for 10 years. I continue to work for the USN as a civilian and I'm quite happy with the pay I receive.
As for the Pledge... I'm proof that we are not one nation under god, nor do I pledge allegiance to the flag, a mere symbol of something much greater.
That said... if it fits within your beliefs, go right ahead. Please try not to frown at me or people like me while you're doing it.
<S>
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Note that Christianity includes every little branch of it, and a whole pile of people who say the believe in 'something':
Christianity: 2 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
Buddhism: 360 million
Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
primal-indigenous: 190 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Yoruba religion: 20 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 14 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 6 million
Jainism: 4 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 3 million
Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Scientology: 750 thousand
Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand
So, Osama's beliefs (well some of them) are held by a billion or so too, that doesn't make him absolutely right.
Originally posted by -ammo-:
My beliefs are held by millions, although I am no spokesmen for them.
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Bin Laden's beliefs are not held by a billion Islams. He's a zealot.
Compare him with Falwell and Robertson... many if not most Christians do not share the beliefs of these two.
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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A better comparison would be the "Christians" who murder abortionists.
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We'll need every soul, no matter his faith; in this fight for civilization.
For thats what this is... the Darkness, vs the Light of Reason.
So, every soul, of every race; in every place on this planet is now faced with this one choice...
Pray then, if it's in your dogma to do so; for The Light.
I shall not think any less of the man or woman who stands beside me guarding the Light of Freedom, no matter his race or beliefs, his nation or his ideals.
United we stand. Divided, we fall.
And THATS the name of that tune.
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yep it's all God's fault, not freakins man..
shite - any excuse for some to spout their anti-religion views
He gave us free will -
to create or destroy -
to love or to hate -
seems we like the latter better.
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Bet you the Taliban, and the people that support them believe that the spiritually corrupt West is 'The Darkness' and they are trying to protect 'The Light'.
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Originally posted by Eagler:
shite - any excuse for some to spout their anti-religion views
Yes, well this topic seemed like a good excuse for the original author to spout his religious views...
Door swings both ways, if you begin to proclaim that an event is somehow related to religion- expect some people to come back and refute that claim.
-SW
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
FWIW, I served the USN for 10 years. I continue to work for the USN as a civilian and I'm quite happy with the pay I receive.
As for the Pledge... I'm proof that we are not one nation under god, nor do I pledge allegiance to the flag, a mere symbol of something much greater.
That said... if it fits within your beliefs, go right ahead. Please try not to frown at me or people like me while you're doing it.
<S>
I am pleased that you had the oppertuinity to serve our country.
You actually are not proof of anything. This nation (note nation not you or anyone else individually) was founded under God, and Christian values in mind. But that is not to say you dont have the right to believe what you will, however the Pledge of Allegiance is much older than any of us and it still stands in alot of schools, Thank God.
I will try not to frown on your beliefs, but the truth is you or knowone else can control my thoughts on this. I believe you are wrong and I doubt my mind will ever change on it. Ironically, most folks try and disprove that there is a God, where Christians dont try to disprove anything, we just proclaim we are right. It generally infuriates folks..
<S> thx for the consideration.
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Originally posted by funkedup:
A better comparison would be the "Christians" who murder abortionists.
Well, those folks were/are just haters. and you can call them anything you want, they can claim to be anything they want, but most assuredly God doesnt see them part of his brood.
actually Mike, I had to bring myself to respond to this, fairly hateful thing to say.
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We're all a bit shook by the situation.
Folks tend to try and break big problems down into smaller pieces, pieces they can grasp..
Hopefully we can all see around the pulpits, and find some common ground.
Hateful things beyond comprehension have been done... ARE BEING DONE... in the name of somebodys God.
Lets drop the labels.. and look at the ACTION itself. Judge THAT.. not in who's name it was wrought.
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Well, it wasn't til 1954 ya had the "One nation under God" added - so I doubt it was the thinking of yer forefathers :)
http://www.freeinquirynetwork.com/UnderGod.html (http://www.freeinquirynetwork.com/UnderGod.html)
Ammo, while the founding fathers were religious, they went outta their way to create a constitution that was a very secular one. The introduction of "One nation under God" is a very recent one - and it's well documented. Also the Founding Fathers quite succintly argue why they wanna keep any official religion outta the Constitution.
Any government that's a theological one rather than a secular one scares me. Living in Iran would be an option if one wants one of those.
I say go back to the way it's supposed to be.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: StSanta ]
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Ammo I put "Christian" in quotes because they aren't really. I'm comparing the murderers to guys like bin Laden who get called "Muslim" even though their beliefs are far from that of main stream Muslims (at least the ones I have known). I have issues with Falwell and Robertson but I would never compare them to bin Laden.
(Yes Sandman I understand you were comparing them only in a very specific way which you explained, but I couldn't hearing those names in the same breath as bin Laden's. :) )
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Neither Jesus, nor the Prophet taught anything remotely similar to what we are doing. I wouldn't use either of there names to justify what we are up to. I have a hunch that they are up there waiting for the guys that have. I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't want those guys mad at me.
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
I am pleased that you had the oppertuinity to serve our country.
You actually are not proof of anything. This nation (note nation not you or anyone else individually) was founded under God, and Christian values in mind. But that is not to say you dont have the right to believe what you will, however the Pledge of Allegiance is much older than any of us and it still stands in alot of schools, Thank God.
I'll grant that SOME of the founding fathers were christian... I'll give you that much. As StSanta pointed out, the pledge as we know it is relatively new in U.S. history.
I will try not to frown on your beliefs, but the truth is you or knowone else can control my thoughts on this. I believe you are wrong and I doubt my mind will ever change on it. Ironically, most folks try and disprove that there is a God, where Christians dont try to disprove anything, we just proclaim we are right. It generally infuriates folks..
Actually, we atheists don't generally accost people door to door or in parking lots or in supermarkets, etc... asking them of their faith. We are far less instrusive. I have no interest in changing your mind. I just don't want anyone attempting to change mine. Bear true witness to your faith by being an example of it. True believers, devoid of doubt and need for consensus do not trouble me at all.
<S> thx for the consideration.
Funkedup, I see your point, but I compared the three simply because of their words of hate and intolerance. If we are comparing atrocities and crimes, Falwell and Robertson are not good examples (I hope).
That said, I hope no one here takes this post as a personal attack. It is not my intention.
<S>
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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What you are seeing, in all of this mess, is a general acknowledgemnet that security, as we knew it before the event, will be defined differently from that ugly moment on. People everywhere are scrambling to feel "secure" again, since having money, wearing nice clothes, driving the nice car, etc. doeasn't matter anymore. People are looking for something more to provide security. All of a sudden, people are being a lot more receptive to "god", granted, it's a god they define for themselves and put into their box. The US was founded by Christians, who were unable to practice their faith in England under the church/political rule of the time. They set up the government in the US not to be a christian government, but to make a safe haven for anyone to come and worship their own god, or not worship, as they saw fit. There was never an intention of injecting a christian god into the government, but likewise, people who claim "seperation of church and state" have it wrong as well. The government was not designed to ignore people's faiths, but rather accept and acknowledge diversity and have a place of freedom where people could practice their religion free from government infuence.
I am not going to promote my own Christian faith at this point, rather, I will say that the silence of godly people up until now was not a lack of practicing muslims, christians, Jews, whatever. But it was a sign that most people of faith had grown comfortable, and rather than be publicly spiritual, and openly pray in public and acknowledge their god, it was much safer to do it within the confines of their religious buildings. This tragic event has not only brought many of these people out of the woodwork, stepping up to the plate in this time of crisis, but many others who were not practicing any faith are now searching for a new definition of security. My church normally has about 885 in attendance at the service I usually go to. Last week, the first sunday after the disaster, there was over 1400 people. They had to set up overflow rooms for all the people. Do we think most of those extra people were seriously there to worship Jesus? Probably not, but it is representative of a search for spiritual answers. People are flocking to places of worship everywhere with a desire to say a prayer, or find deeper meaning to all this, whatever. This is not intended to be a slam on people who choose not to beieve in anything, rather, to acknowledge that some people are finding comfort in referencing a higher power right now. To me it's sad that in a few weeks or months, people will have put their god back into their pocket to be brought out next time a tragedy occurs, but it would be wrong of me by society's standards to judge people for not practicing what I believe. Within my faith, Christianity specifically, it is time to come out of the woodwork to show the world that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are wrong, and are not representative of how most christians feel, just as most Muslims are stepping up to denounce bin Laden's views. Also, that we are not a faith that keeps God in our pocket, but that we worship him in times of joy as well as sadness.
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No problem here Sandman. Sorry if I upset Ammo. :(
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I am not upset. I am at work :) I will respond at home at length. My skin is very thick.
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The question is:
Where and Who - are the men of god in the US?
Maybe I asked in too oblique a fashion?
The media shows us bigots and charlatans like Falwell or Pat Robertson, low life scumbags who agree with the islamic radicals in regards to Americas spiritual bankruptcy.
In regards to the separation of church and state, that's hogwash as any presidents religous beliefs surely play a role in his thought processes and the path he will take in dealing with problems.
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Judaism: 14 million
There are estimated 14 million ethnic jews on the whole planet. A significant part of them are not religious. Probably a third if not half.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d:
There are estimated 14 million ethnic jews on the whole planet. A significant part of them are not religious. Probably a third if not half.
miko
How many were there before 1939?
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Originally posted by weazel:
The question is:
In regards to the separation of church and state, that's hogwash as any presidents religous beliefs surely play a role in his thought processes and the path he will take in dealing with problems.
I disagree. It's one thing for the President to have his own personal belief and granted, that personal belief will probably shape his decisions in some fashion. It's quite another for the state to officially recognize and/or endorse any single religion.
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Yeah right, if that isn't the most false statement I've ever seen...
A president can NEVER and will NEVER allow his religious view points so he can decide on a decision he needs to make. If he did, his bellybutton would be out of office in 12 hours.
Let me put it another way, the president is the spokesman of the people. He is the representative of this nationa s a whole, now tell me how in the hell can someone who lets his faith do the decision making for him be a leader of his people with so many various religious backgrounds it would make your headspin?
Start in the As, and end in the Xs, there are so many religions in the USA that allowing someone in office to use ONE religion as his focal point and how he goes about life would get him booted out by the people.
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion, those are two of the best things in this free nation.
-SW
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All of this debate about god is utterly useless. I offer pieces of advice:
1. Your religion is none of my business, please keep it that way.
2. If you seek the truth, stop worshipping lies.
3. No matter how hard you believe a lie, it is still a lie. But the truth is still the truth whether you believe it or not.
Buhdman, out
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You're reading far too much into what I said.
Religion is but one environmental factor that contributes to the way each of us act and react as human beings.
Dubya is a religious man, he can't deny it nor can he stop being human simply because he's the president.
Certainly, he's not going to base his decisions on religion, but the man himself has been shaped by his faith.
If Dubya's faith in Christ hasn't changed him, then he's not faithful at all.
Look at me... I'm defending a christian... LOL.
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Sandman, if that was directed at me (your last reply), my previous reply was meant for Weazel. Sorry if it read like I was replying to you.
-SW
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Oh... my bad... :)
Didn't expect that we would agree... LOL.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Funkedup, I see your point, but I compared the three simply because of their words of hate and intolerance. If we are comparing atrocities and crimes, Falwell and Robertson are not good examples (I hope).
Sandman, saying that Falwell or Robertson are haters is just not true. I personally do not agree with everything they believe but it is only doctrinal issues. I cannot speak for them personnally and only God and themselves know there heart. However I believe that both men are believers in Christ. I dont expect non-beleivers to understand all that we say or think, but we (as true believers) certainly do not hate you, or anyone else. The Bible tells us in Luke 6:27 "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you." Romans 13:8-9 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another have fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." The only thing that believers should hate, is Sin itself. If we are commanded to love our enemies, how much mroe should love the passer by, or the person that works next to us? As far as tolerence, well I personally am not tolerent of Sin, a synonym of tolerence is accept, or overlook, and God cannot be tolerent of sin. To be tolerent would be to accept, he cannot do this. He however can forgive, and will.
That said, I hope no one here takes this post as a personal attack. It is not my intention.
absolutley not, I dont take it as such.
[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven
Is this not tolerance?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven
Is this not tolerance?
\
The verse is a beatitude, the first sermon in the Bible from Jesus. It is also recorded in Matthew 5. We are not to judge one another, we are also to be forgiving, not holding grudges. If God can forgive us of our sin, we must be able to forgive our neighbor of whatever wrong has been done. This is not about accepting someones sin as "OK".
Well no, not in the aspect we are talking about. I love the individual, but certainly do not love his Sin. God, and Christians abhor sin, not the sinner. I have an inlaw that is a homosexeal. It has been a real trial for me and my wife. It is her Grandmother. My wife loves her grandmother dearly, but is torn about her Homosexuality. We ahve discussed this at length wioth her grandmother and she know we cannot accept her choice as right, but we call it sin. We do not want our kids to see her and her "friend" together holding hands or whatever affection they may show in public. So we will not let our kids visit their over night as a grand parent/grandkid thing. But whe is welcome in our home and we will gladly take her to church, or six flags, a movie, whatever. We still love her, but do not love or "tolerate" her sin.
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Herein lies the difference between you and the likes of Falwell and Robertson.
Question... other than Leviticus, does the bible address homosexuality anywhere else?
I have difficulties with Leviticus. Many of the "sins" listed hardly seem appropriate in this day and age.
[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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I like this one better...
I solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.
Sandman_SBM
Roger that Sandman, roger that.
Charon
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OK... Ammo's got a gay-granny :) reminds me of a video I once saw.
Is that going off the thread topic or what?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Herein lies the difference between you and the likes of Falwell and Robertson.
Question... other than Leviticus, does the bible address homosexuality anywhere else?
I have difficulties with Leviticus. Many of the "sins" listed hardly seem appropriate in this day and age.
[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
I know of a document i saw a few years ago where God mentions it as an abomination 17 times, or rather it listed it 17 times. I will do a little research. You do know that Sodom and Gomorah were detroyed because of the populations sexual perversions, right? It was not the only sin going on there, but God asked Lot to find just one just man there and He could not.
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Ammo, are some sins greater than others in the eyes of the Christian deity?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Question... other than Leviticus, does the bible address homosexuality anywhere else?
I have difficulties with Leviticus. Many of the "sins" listed hardly seem appropriate in this day and age.
Refferred to in the book of 1st Corinthians...
Corinthians is actually a letter that was written by the Apostle Paul to the believers at Corinth, belived to have been penned about AD 56. The purpose of the letter was to encourage the Christians there, and to point out some areas they needed to work on. I tell you all that above so you'll know the context of the verses. Too many people find a verse in the bible that they like, and ignore all the verses around it that set the context. Anyways, here's the verses:
1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
There are other references too.
If anyone tells ya they don't believe the bible mentions homosexuality, they are simply wrong. Homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. That's not too hip a thing to say in this day and time, but the bible still says that. There have been times in the past when homosexuality was pretty much accepted by man, and it's making a comeback now apparently, but the bible still says its wrong, so I still know it's sin. Do I hate homosexuals? no. I have to believe it's wrong though.
I've seen on TV before where there are *churches* that have openly gay ministers, and gay couples in the congregations they're reading from the bible, apparently thinking everything is just fine. Poor Souls.
I have in the past, surfed the web looking at nasty pictures, as most guys have. Since I became a christian, I had to hang that up. It's a sin, Jesus Christ himself said:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Now, if I wanted to be hip, I could just say that Christ never mentioned observing the *image* of nude women in a lustful way, so therefore, I'm ok, you're ok, lets just look at nasty's.
Can't do that though...
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Here's some more direct stuff out of the book of Romans (a letter Paul wrote to the Romans about AD 57):
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]
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I read the bible once.
I was looking for loopholes. Aaaaayaaa
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God does not clasify sin, man does.
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homosexuality--as a starter,
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have commited an abomination: they shall surely be put to death:their blood shall be upon them.
and for beastiality,
Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death:and ye shall slay the beast.
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
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sorry, but what a strange arse world we live in .. lespo grandmothers ...yuk!
sounds like a plot for a new HBO mini series :)
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Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Oh dear.... it seems as though I am in a whole lotta trouble :)
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Oh crap Jekyll. We're screwed.
I hope it's by those women I am comitting adultery with :).
Ammo, hm, man classifies sins? So to God, all sins are equal? I've heard some people claim this.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Ammo, hm, man classifies sins? So to God, all sins are equal? I've heard some people claim this.
SURE, most folks would say that the sin of murder is much worse than lust. Or even take the WTC act, Murder in that amount in mans eyes is far worse than a single drugland inner city murder that doesnt even make headlines. But God sees it as sin, all of it is an abomination to him. There is one sin though that is mentioned and stressed in the Bible, and unfortunately commited by many. I will give you the reference this eve when work is done.
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Organised religon rots. It seems to always turn into...we've gotta be right and you've gotta be wrong thing.
I will say that religion though is a good thing in many ways. It typicaly sets morals ie that glue that holds socities togather.
xBAT
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batdog:
Us humanists and atheists have strong moral foundations too :).
One of our "moral strengths" that isn't appreciated by everyone is the tenet of allowing to consenting adults to enjoy themselves without outside interference, without someone telling 'um what to do. As long as others aren't hurt.
One does not need religion to be moral. Or morals to be religious.