Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Simaril on September 24, 2005, 09:33:47 AM
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Just a question, not a troll --
Why is the F4u-4 perked? I look at its stats, and it seems clearly less impressive than others, inlcuding the LA7. When I've tried to fly it, the -4 is a nice ride, but doesnt seem uber. It rolls OK, but not spectacularly; its moderately fast, but not a world beater; it has average guns; it has flaps, but so do the F6F and a host of other planes.
The La7 has a beer bottle gas tank, but otherwise it seems to completely outclass the -4. The the pony seems to do what the -4 does, even better than the -4
Am I just using this bird wrong? I know some here and elsewhere have called it the best all around fighter of WW2, but I'm not seeing it in AH...
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F4U-4 is awesome.
It climbs well, is one of the fastest aircraft on the deck, does about 450mph at alt, it hardly compress', has flaps that can make it turn with most things... good guns. Not to mention the usual 50 rockets and 20 bombs american fighters are overloaded with.
Yes, it deserves to be perked.
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Same here, you can pick and chose your style of fighting you want, and in the MA you don't run into to many other perked planes that'll match you, you can use your fast climb to get above your enemy, your speed to BnZ or run, your good high speed turning to outrun fast enemys or your okay low speed turn and great turn speed with flaps to defeat all but the best turners. Good gun pack, good range. That plane is a beast! You just have to learn how to use otherwise it's just a D-hog with a climb upgrade.
Edward
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Originally posted by Simaril
Just a question, not a troll --
Why is the F4u-4 perked? I look at its stats, and it seems clearly less impressive than others, inlcuding the LA7. When I've tried to fly it, the -4 is a nice ride, but doesnt seem uber. It rolls OK, but not spectacularly; its moderately fast, but not a world beater; it has average guns; it has flaps, but so do the F6F and a host of other planes.
The La7 has a beer bottle gas tank, but otherwise it seems to completely outclass the -4. The the pony seems to do what the -4 does, even better than the -4
Am I just using this bird wrong? I know some here and elsewhere have called it the best all around fighter of WW2, but I'm not seeing it in AH...
Well Bud, I will argue that the F4U-4 is the best fighter in the game. Along with a few others, we have compared its performance to the Tempest and La-7 and it is clearly superior above 5,000 feet. Below 5k, it is still a match, with better maneuvering performance and offers acceleration, speed and climb close enough to put the advantage into the hands of the better pilot.
We can go the DA or TA anytime you want to practice in the F4U-4. It's really a matter of learning the plane. I know that you quickly became proficient with the P-51B after a little practice, so I'm confidence you'll do the same with the F4U-4.
In a medium to low speed vertical fight it can duel effectively with anything, including the Ki-84 and P-38. Awesome flaps and tremendous power make it an absolute monster in the vertical. Anything fast enough to run with it cannot maneuver with it. Anything agile enough to maneuver with it cannot compete with its speed, climb and acceleration. The only fighter that can truly compete with it is the Spitfire Mk.XIV and even then the F4U-4 is nearly 20 mph faster on the deck, which means that if the Corsair should be at a disadvantage in a turn fight, it can simply check out.
Great flaps, ailerons and a super-effective rudder enable the F4U-4 to gain angles most fighters cannot duplicate.
Think of the F4U-4 as a faster, better accelerating, better climbing and better turning P-51D. It will dominate the P-51D in every category where the Mustang excels, except extreme range.
Attached is a film of my F4U-4 mixing it up with my pal Rowdy1 in the TA. Rowdy is flying a Ki-84. The secret to smacking around the Ki-84 is in keeping the fight at speeds above where it can get the flaps out. Should the Hayate pilot chop power and dump his flaps, the F4U-4 simply maintains speed and hammers the Ki with speed and angles. Flap usage in the Ki-84 can actually create a trap for the Ki-84 driver if the faster fighter refuses the bait and uses speed and angles. Rowdy knew what would happen if he got slow enough to get the flaps out (we also dueled F4U-4 vs the Zero) and tried to compete at medium speeds. Rowdy is a good pilot, so the average MA denizen would probably have fared worse against the F4U-4.
Our F4U-4 is simply a dominating airplane, able to match or exceed any other prop fighter up as high as 26,000 feet, where the P-47N really starts to show its muscle.
Some F4U-4 stats taken from actual testing:
Acceleration at sea level, 200 mph to 300 mph: 28.57 seconds, second only to the Tempest.
Acceleration at 20,000 feet, 200 mph to 300 mph: 28.59 seconds, best of all fighters.
Climb to 10,000 feet from sea level beginning at 300 mph: 1:55.67 seconds. 3rd best, right behind the 109G-10 and SpitXIV.
Climb from 10k to 20k, beginning at 300 mph: 1:55.50 seconds, 2nd only to 109G-10 (beats SpitXIV).
Max speed at sea level: 375 mph (50% fuel)
Max speed at 10,000 ft: 399 mph (50% fuel)
Max speed at 16,000 ft: 423 mph (50% fuel)
Max speed at 20,000 ft: 439 mph (50% fuel)
Max speed at 25,000 ft: 446 mph (50% fuel)
Max speed at 28,500 ft: 445 mph (50% fuel)
Here's the film mentioned:Film (http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/F4U-4vsKi84.zip)
My regards,
Widewing
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My friend Olly75th whom I'm sure you've all seen around every now and then is one of the best F4u4 pilots I've ever seen, I myself favor the Ki-84 so I know where your coming from.
But where he uses speed I know how to handle the vertical better, the F4u4 does have good zoom climb from it's weight and good climb from the engine but not what the Ki has in engine power and accelereation!
42 seconds it all it takes from sitting still on the runway to it's top speed at sea level... Not even a 109g10 can match that type of preformance.
Also the Ki-84 with full flaps can hold extream angles of attack for much longer then any other plane in the game, even the F4u4. The Ki-84 is what I beleave to be one of the deadlest planes in the game and I try not to face them even when I fly them.
But Olly has a very nasty trick that he uses on the hogs that makes it turn even better then a zero!!! Use Stall limiter and just drop your flaps full and start turning. You'll never stall or roll out as long as you have full flaps. I've chased him with a zero and the zero stalled out before and had to break away, but that was only a turning test, in a dogfight he'd been dead long before that.
I've even faced him in Seafires with him still able to easly outturn me as if I was a zero to a B-17... lol
Edward
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Thanks for the tips. I havent emphasized the vertical enough when flying it -- i keep thinking about those flaps, and probably dump too early.
I've runinto a related problem in flying with a power advantage against better turners. I'll push angles with E enough that I get the clean snapshot, but as I'm not yet hitting % as well with tracers off I will often have to extend for resetting the fight once they start gaining.
I usually take a time when he's passing, and rather than turn back on him I push down and stretch the range. The con usually is 400 before reverses and stabilizes, but good shots can throw effective pings. I avoid rudder, do half or quarter rolls without heading change, and try to build speed.
Using this today, I extended against a Ki84 and pulled out from 400 to 600-800, where I thought I was safe. I then lost my right wing to gunfire....and yes, there were only we 2 in the CT.
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F4U-4 is an outright monster.
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Fight that la7 at alt with the f4u-4 and the lala is toast;)
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Originally posted by jon
Fight that la7 at alt with the f4u-4 and the lala is toast;)
since when are there fights at alt? :)
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Originally posted by Enduro
since when are there fights at alt? :)
If im in a f4u-4 the fight will be at alt;)
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Fight an La7 with an F4U-4 at ANY alt and the La7 is toast.
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Originally posted by EdXCal
Use Stall limiter and
You're a girl.
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f4-4 is a sleeper bird, the reason, no info on the website about its performance like a few other planes that are unlisted.
fight the la7 above 14k with anything and you have a good chance of keelin it.
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Originally posted by Grits
Fight an La7 with an F4U-4 at ANY alt and the La7 is toast.
Exactly. This shouldn't even be a fight. The F4U4 does just about everything better than the lala...
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EdXCal, the use of stall limiter severly hampers the planes performance. If disabled, a pilot can acomplish things one can not do with it enabled.
Widewing, can we go to TA/DA some day and fight Ki84 vs F4u4?
Would be nice to try!
Edit: Ok I've watched your film, I don't know Rowdy1 from the MA so can't comment on his flying.
However, some possitive critisism, I do not think that he used the Ki84 anywhere near its capabilities in the fight you two had. While he did use it to some extent in the vertical, a loop fight is not where the Ki84 exells. Also, he kept it too fast to really "shine" and show its superior low speed handeling compared to other planes.
Would be very very nice to go and try it with you in the TA Widewing if we can find a time for it.
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The Ki is the most dangerous dogfighter.
Even when u pure bnz the thing it can be suddenly on ur back again withouth any energy loss. And a good gunner in it can harm u after that pass. Yep any plane can do that but the Ki excells in that.
It also excels in the stall fight just because it recovers real quick giving it a fast chance to turn on ur back.
I really watch out for them.
They like Niks dough everybody is gonna gang it .
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Rgr Bug I agree with the Ki84 being the most dangerous Dogfighter.
It's mainly its superior climb and low speed flying that makes it dangerous and that is also what alows it to gain the advantage on a B&Z plane if flown well.
It is far from as easy to fly as the Niki though, or the spits or any of those planes.
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Skywolf, your a nimrod. Did you even read the post or did you just pick out the one word you can even come close to understanding?
Also, I don't use the stall limter, Iwins and Olly do, but if you try it you'll see what I mean. Oddly enough, when used in the F4u's with flaps, in the long run you'll outturn anything in tha game and you can't do it without stall limiter.
But to beat them when they do that I just use a Ki-84, I use my better climb and vertical performance against them.
Edward
Edit: I've played for 5 years, I know the game well so try not to think I'm a NewU because I said something about stall limiter. Try it, go into Offline or the TA and turn it on, go into a flat turn and just drop your flaps... Your turn rate will blow an Zero out of the water!!! So try it first before saying anything.
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WEll EdXCal, a stall limiter is just that. It limits the airplanes AOA to an extent where it can't spin out. If you can fly the plane without stall limiter you can fly it beyond that stall limiter edge.
No plane with stall limiter will outturn a plane without it.
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I've met some pretty impressive NewU guys....one exemple a guy played AH 2 years offline (can you believe that ?), he shot so many drones that he could shoot fighters easily at d800 with 1 hand in the back, I felt like a noob lol
like we say here, don't sell the bear skin before killing it :)
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Originally posted by EdXCal
Skywolf, your a nimrod. Did you even read the post or did you just pick out the one word you can even come close to understanding?
Edward
Dude..... it was a JOKE. Chillax
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Well, I'm not sure who you've been fighting for 5 years, or what flight model you've been playing on, but if you get into a slow turnfight with a zeke in an f4-u4, you better start deciding what plane you are going to fly next. At worst that zeke is going to hang with you on the turn, and as you get slower your performance drops and his will go up. If you start flat turning that F4U-4 you are flying it in a way that ignores your strengths. Keep it in the vertical, and keep it fast, thats the only way you are going to beat a zeke everytime. :aok
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Originally posted by Wilbus
EdXCal, the use of stall limiter severly hampers the planes performance. If disabled, a pilot can acomplish things one can not do with it enabled.
Widewing, can we go to TA/DA some day and fight Ki84 vs F4u4?
Would be nice to try!
Edit: Ok I've watched your film, I don't know Rowdy1 from the MA so can't comment on his flying.
However, some possitive critisism, I do not think that he used the Ki84 anywhere near its capabilities in the fight you two had. While he did use it to some extent in the vertical, a loop fight is not where the Ki84 exells. Also, he kept it too fast to really "shine" and show its superior low speed handeling compared to other planes.
Would be very very nice to go and try it with you in the TA Widewing if we can find a time for it.
I'm in the TA every Wednesday and Thursday evening. I would be more than happy to square-off in these fighters.
Rowdy had just tried to fight the F4U-4 with an A6M5 Zeke. There's little a Zero can do with the F4U-4 and the slower he got, the more hopeless things became.
Hence, I suspect he didn't want to get the Ki-84 slowed so much that the same situation ensued. It's my practice not to maneuver with the Ki-84 at speeds below 200 mph. If we slow more than that, I extend away, zoom climb out and use the F4U-4's speed and acceleration to pound the Ki. Generally, the Ki-84 is faced with turning to meet the attack, and like the 190s, the F4U can gain angles at very high speeds.
At speeds above flap deployment, the Ki-84 is merely average in turn performance, and I'd say inferior to the Ki-61. Only at very low speeds can the Ki-84 really shine.
My regards,
Widewing
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Only at very low speeds can the Ki-84 really shine.
yeah don't turn with the ki84 in anything less that spit5/hurriII, it can hurt :mad:
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Originally posted by Noir
like we say here, don't sell the bear skin before killing it :)
You have bears in Paris? Mon Dieu!
F4u-4 is fine plane & deserves all the perking it gets, but before you all sell your spouses, kids, homes & jobs to buy one there's some small print you ought to check.
1. Climb to 10k is great if you have already wound it up to 300mph. Other than that its average with a raft of planes leaving it in their wake.
2. Duration on int. tanks 21 mins ie same as La. Ext tanks will affect performance.
Regards