Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bj229r on September 25, 2005, 11:00:05 AM
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Aside from the current less than stellar performance above mid-teens (which most planes endure) and 20 min flight time on full throttle, plane has no real downside at all---mebbe make wings rip in 500 mph dive?...had 1 keep up with my P47N last night at 20k for nearly 2 sectors, only way I stayed ahead was with wep..turn it off, he'd creep to <1k...I dove 500 mph to base, he kept 1 k back nearly all the way to deck...unreal
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seems to be so many more people flying them lately.
it annoys me more than anything to be run down by them, they are unable to kill me and the ganging hoard catches up when i have to perform evasives.
need a perk cost of ~5 points on them - they are in a class of their own low down (compared to the unperked rides).
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Yes perk the LA7. LA5 is practically as fast and more manouverable but with smaller gun package. It could remain unperked probably.
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Doesnt need to be perked, just give it 1 or 2 of the weaknesses that it likely had:mad:
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Originally posted by bj229r
I dove 500 mph to base, he kept 1 k back nearly all the way to deck...unreal
very real infact.........
had you gone to a steady climb at 20k you should have mastered him............
also for an La7 to climb to 20 k and achieve a cruising speed to stay with a P47n it would have blown half its fuel (in the MA) plus 2 sectors further travel means that boy did not get home unless his base was less than half a sector away.
AH may have a problem with high dive speed/acceleration IMO.
Its a matter of record that other stuff could dive away from La7's (109G4) provided the La7 did not catch up during the initial acceleration of the dive......... not so in AH some others here have indicated it to be a pure drag thing.....however I doubt the P47 will enjoy any benefit from this should it be rectified.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Doesnt need to be perked, just give it 1 or 2 of the weaknesses that it likely had:mad:
Hmm La7 weaknesses
Poor gun sight...... (in AH its poor)
Poor radio range......... (maybe???)
Over heating cockpit........(less pilot endurance??)
Landing bounce ? ( Nope that was the La5's)
Poor under nose visibility (in AH its poor)
Engine reliability (nope the Ash was as sold as a rock! stories of em flying home with a cylinder shot out)
Weak wings (nope could take every G the engine and controls could pull)
Caught fire ? (Nope it didnt)
Poor performance above 10K ( yes in AH the La7 is under powered above 10K...drain its e above 10 k and most contemporaray mid alt ac will master it......of course it will dive away)
Only two Shvaks (yup the bulk of La7's only had the same guns as the La5FN........split the models and perk the 3 gun La7 IMO)
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Weak wings (nope could take every G the engine and controls could pull)
Early radial-engined Lavochkins had problems with wing assembly such as La-5 and La-5F. Problems were eradicated when La-5Fn and 7 came out.
Imo there should be a split between La-7s. One with 2 gun option and 1944 performance figures. The other gets 3 gun option with 1945 performance figures.
The current AH La-7 performance (speed and climb) was not achieved until April 1945...
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the Spitfire XIV optimised for 20k+ fighting is perked
the TA-152 optimised for high alt fighting is perked
the LA-7 optimised for low alt fighting is not perked....
Doesn't make sense? its not American either so it should be perked!
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I remember pulling an La-7 up to about 25,000ft in a Spit XIV. He only stayed up there for about 30 seconds after I turned to engage him. He realized very quickly that the Spi XIV, which he seemed to think the La-7 dominated (probably based on prior encounters at low alt), was going to absolutely crush him up there. He put the nose down, easily out dove me and escaped to the saftey of low alt.
Therein lies the problem. The Ta152 and Spitfire Mk XIV are not world beaters down low, but they cannot escape to their zone of dominance on a moment's notice and if anything should be much above them they cannot climb without putting themselves at huge risk. They are both potent aircraft, even down low, but it is harder to use them than it is the La-7 be a good margin.
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Here is what I do when I get a fast LA7 on my 6. I will have enough of these to make a video soon.
http://webpages.charter.net/davegun/Pics/Auger.ahf
Gunner
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the La series perform poorly in a power dive. they can be out-dived by a 190. also the 190 has better control in a power dive because it has power steering (electric motors assisting control surfaces).
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Originally posted by Karnak
Therein lies the problem. The Ta152 and Spitfire Mk XIV are not world beaters down low, but they cannot escape to their zone of dominance on a moment's notice and if anything should be much above them they cannot climb without putting themselves at huge risk.
/signed
:aok
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a question about the LA7. Does it have a supercharger ?
The reason i ask this is the P-51 has a 2 stage supercharger
if im not mistaken. As you pass through 13k the supercharger
doesnt work well til 17k then it hits the second stage and
Manifold pressure resumes. La7 has the same Manifold pressure
drop at the same alts. Then regains the same pressure at 17k
just like a 2 stage charger. If it doesnt have the 2 stage charger
shouldnt it's Manifold pressure continue to drop as you gain
more alt.
RWY
P.s im asking all this assuming im right about the 51.
Its been yrs sence i even played and my memorie isnt
what it use to be.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Aside from the current less than stellar performance above mid-teens (which most planes endure) and 20 min flight time on full throttle, plane has no real downside at all---mebbe make wings rip in 500 mph dive?...had 1 keep up with my P47N last night at 20k for nearly 2 sectors, only way I stayed ahead was with wep..turn it off, he'd creep to <1k...I dove 500 mph to base, he kept 1 k back nearly all the way to deck...unreal
I don't get it. Why didn't you simply climb away, reverse and kill the damn thing? A P-47N simply owns an La-7 at 20k. Better acceleration, better climb, faster and if you're not hauling around too much fuel (never need more than 50%), you can defeat it in a turn fight. Any putz willing to follow you 2 sectors likely couldn't fight his way out of a nursing home restroom with submachine gun anyway. Don't worry about the other guy, make him worry about you.
My regards,
Widewing
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Smidsy, a 190 won't outdive an LA, specially not a 7.
Uhm... as far as power stearing goes, never heard anything about the 190's with powerstearing. They did have very good controll surfaces though and very balanced.
GunnrCAF, dangerous play ;)
Had the pilot been any better in that LA5 he would have easily pulled out using trim and cut throttle. But it worked so what a hell! :)
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Originally posted by Robert
Manifold pressure resumes. La7 has the same Manifold pressure
drop at the same alts. Then regains the same pressure at 17k
just like a 2 stage charger. If it doesnt have the 2 stage charger
shouldnt it's Manifold pressure continue to drop as you gain
more alt.
RWY
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Your observations are correct and the AH indicated manifold pressure curve of the La7 and La5 are incorrect IMO at mid altitudes.
Height______Boost______Speed (IAS)
M_________mm.pt.ct_______ Km/h
0000________1000________ 270
1000________1000_________270
2000________1000_________270
3000_________900_________265
4000_________825/1000____260 (2nd stage/speed of boost)
5000________1000_________255
6000_________900_________250
7000_________765_________240
8000_________660_________240
9000_________600_________235
10000________550_________230
These figures are off an August 44 La7 climb rate test and show only the non WEP (2400rpm) boost v altitude.
WEP (2500 rpm) generates 1180mm (46.46") of boost upto approx 2000m+ (6600ft) where it fades to 1000mm (39.37") by about 2600m (8500ft)
You will also note that this is at max climb so there is little RAM air effect at the intake.
In AH units this would read
Height______Boost______Speed (IAS)
Ft__________inches________m/h
0000________39.37_________168
3278________39.37_________168
6557________39.37_________168
9836________35.43_________165
13114_______32.48/39.37____161 (2nd stage/speed of boost)
16393_______39.37_________158
19672_______35.43_________155
22950_______30.11_________149
26230_______25.98_________149
29508_______23.62_________146
32786_______21.65_________143
Manifold pressures indicated and given in the E6b are therefore slightly erronious IMO (for both La5Fn and La7).
WEP boost was 46.5" not 48". Mil power was 39.4" not 41".
The 2nd stage of boost is permitted at just over 13K and not at 16>17K as the Lavochkin cockpit manifold gauges indicates.
In fact if you refer to AH's own climb rate curve for the La5FN & La7 you will see that the 2nd SC speed step is about 13K and maintained as per the above test until 16.5>17K.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/la7climb.gif)
The various speeds and climb rates modelled seem to be pretty much spot on for a fully tested production model however. So we may be being fussy and the only performance curve affected due to any error may be limited to fuel consumption rates at the differring altitudes.
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So it does have 2 stage supercharger ? If im reading everything
right in AH it does.
RWY
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Originally posted by Robert
So it does have 2 stage supercharger ? If im reading everything
right in AH it does.
RWY
Yes the 2nd stage of boost should be engaged at 4000m alt and max throttle set to limit boost to 1000mm max which is achievable upto approx 17K where after boost fades with altitude.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Doesnt need to be perked, just give it 1 or 2 of the weaknesses that it likely had:mad:
Most La7's have a serious weakness, which is the guy flying it.
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LA7's are quite easy to kill. Just got to catch them. I kill them all the time in my F4u-1.
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Originally posted by MwDogg
LA7's are quite easy to kill. Just got to catch them. I kill them all the time in my F4u-1.
You'd find it much harder in an Fw190 of some sort.
The F4U is an exceptially good and versatile fighter.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I don't get it. Why didn't you simply climb away, reverse and kill the damn thing? A P-47N simply owns an La-7 at 20k. Better acceleration, better climb, faster and if you're not hauling around too much fuel (never need more than 50%), you can defeat it in a turn fight. Any putz willing to follow you 2 sectors likely couldn't fight his way out of a nursing home restroom with submachine gun anyway. Don't worry about the other guy, make him worry about you.
My regards,
Widewing
Was a YakU about with the La at first, which then started climbing to nail if I tried that very thing....what truely hacked me off was all I had to do was TURN WEP off and La started CLOSING...after a while, when I was sure he was out of E from his earlier dive to 20k..started checking that out, and concluded the only speed difference between the 2 of us at that alt was my diminishing wep...unless my chitty dial-up connect lets it catch up in bits and spurts
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Originally posted by Tilt
In AH units this should read
Height______Boost______Speed (IAS)
Ft__________inches________m/h
0000________39.37_________168
3278________39.37_________168
6557________39.37_________168
9836________35.43_________165
13114_______32.48/39.37____161 (2nd stage/speed of boost)
16393_______39.37_________158
19672_______35.43_________155
22950_______30.11_________149
26230_______25.98_________149
29508_______23.62_________146
32786_______21.65_________143
But AH actually shows...
Height______Boost______Speed (IAS)
Ft__________inches________m/h
0000________39.37_________168
3278________39.37_________168
6557________39.37_________168
9836________36.50_________165
13114_______32.48_________168
15000_______30.00_________168 (2nd stage/speed of boost only reaching full boost @)
16393_______39.37_________168
19672_______38.50_________168
22950_______34.00_________168
26230_______30.00_________168
29508_______26.00_________168
32786_______22.50_________168
So what we see is that AH inititiates 2nd SC at 15k instead of 13K+. Which gives lower MP between 13k+ and 16.4k than RL.
Above 19K AH shows higher MP than was evident in RL
Given the above if the drag v thrust balance was altered to maintain speeds and climbs (both values increased) but thrust curves modeled to show the above MP curves.
Would not the Lavochkins suffer even poorer acceleration (e retention)above 16.5K?
Further would not then the Lavochkins suffer poorer aceleration in dive at speeds above equivilent horizontal speed?
Its a matter of record that beyond initial acceleration in dive ...even a BF109G4 could out dive an La7!