Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on September 30, 2005, 05:48:44 PM
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I’d like to have a serious opinion from this BB. Read snip from my blog (which I kept for over 3 years now) and share your view on this subject, please.
So ‘critical thinking’ class finally effusively exploded today. While doing the usual one sided lecture, some of the students finally had enough of his behavior. Professor’s abilities to tick off students while his near none-existent ability to show respect and value of student’s opinions finally reached us. We cooperatively were trying to counter his argument with valid points, and as before, while hedging he refuted our ideas completely. As a result with asperity, couple of us voiced our chagrin opinion of his teaching style. He did not muse over what we said, he just blatantly ignored us. That type of sardonic behavior pushed one student over the edge, and she left the class. Others, while shaking their head, continued to sit quietly and listen to his ideas. In the end of the class, I approached him and asked if he understood the reasons of reciprocated chagrin view point. To which he turned towards me and said “Go watch a movie” and left the class. I was shocked by his reply.
Then a student approached me and said that we should go to his office and once again voice our displeasure with him. I replied that that student should contact everyone and on Monday we could try that, although it will not produce any desirable effect. The reason I said that ‘we will not get desired effect’ was because I already tried talking to him about my quiz scores which I felt he did not grade fairly. That interaction with him left abhorrent judgment of that professor.
Now I’m at a loss of what to do. The logical choices so far are:
A) Ignore him, do my own thing and try to pass the class.
B) Confront him again and try to figure out his reasons (Is this experiment on us?)
C) Try to use chain of command or equivalent of it and voice my opinion (which is shared by majority of the class)
D) ……use violence! …..kiddin’ kiddin’
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simple, take the class do the quizzes, if he is grading unfair ask him what you could do to do better if he responds in a chitty matter go to the dean. or pee in his coffee whatever you choose :aok
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Kinda obvious there's no doubt the Prof's aware of the displeasure.
What's his function? Personality contest or teaching? The subject.. something esoteric?
You learning anything?
Choices.. if the guy's a complete idiot, film a class. Send it to the Dean.
Get a list of greviences.. set up a petition, turn it over to the school paper.
If you hope to not waste the course time and credits, shut up and pass. If it's important to you to take the guy down, don't go for half measures.. play to win.
Good luck!
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I had the same question. He may be pissing everyone off, but are you learning critical thinking? Sounds like maybe you are.
I once had a math teacher that reminded me a little of Columbo. He would act like a confused old man sometimes, standing at the board and kinda moaning over a problem, and we would finally yell out the answers to him like a bunch of exasperated kids. He turned out to be one of the best teachers I ever had.
Also... step away from the thesaurus dude.
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There are a great many Prof's who subscribe to the notion that life isn't fair, nor fun, nor particularly engaging, and go out of their way to insure you do not leave campus in any way dissolusioned about this.
Any approach or viewpoint you take is a precedent setting move on how you will, or instinctively, react to life in general.
I'd look within for your answer on how to handle him.
Critical Thinking class, were you expecting a Nice Teacher?
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Suck up and get a good grade at all costs. If you don't, you'll realize in a few years that life really IS a competition and that "friend" of yours in class who got a better grade just took "your" job so you get to flip burgers for another summer.
You gotta set yourself apart from your peers if you want to be anything but just another one of the sheeple, and potential employers and future colleagues won't know how you got those grades. They'll just see the number.
School is really only one thing. Yes, it's a place to get education and have experiences you can't get anywhere else while you're growing up, but more than anything else it's a means to an end. If you want to be smart, then you better do whatever you can to learn. If you want to get hired, you better get grades. If you want a degree, you better pass your classes.
If you want to be a martyr, go ahead and fight the professor.
I suggest you carefully choose your battles and remind yourself why you're there. Are you there to get something from the school, or are you there to battle demons and rid the campus of an ogre-ish teacher? Even if you win, it doesn't go on your transcript.
Oh yea, I personally fought a battle or two in school, and ended up with a college GPA that is an automatic disqualifier from advanced degree programs at most major universities. Remember it's just a means to an end and shut your mouth. I'm sure you'll still learn something even if it's not what the professor intended you to learn.
IMHO.
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More or less directed at Eagle,
Before this gets to a ‘I’m young and stupid, and he’s old and wise’ let me share something about myself. Education is not foreign to me, nor is my enemy. I went to school and faced the Russian education system, and then I faced the US education. I completed a High School half a year earlier then regular students and had two jobs in senior year so I know, from experience, about competition and labor intense jobs. While serving 4 years in AF (getting rank below the zone, doing extra activity such as Honor Guard), I’ve completed my major (andragogy) and currently working on finishing general education. When I was working on the major (college staffed mostly by PhD professors) my GPA was 3.75. I could always communicate, find common ground with others and use logic well. I’m far from being rebellious dolt that wants to disrupt class time and always show respect to olders. I’ve never faced such a teacher (He has 20 years experience and a PhD) that would do such an offensive teaching style.
Originally posted by megadud
simple, take the class do the quizzes, if he is grading unfair ask him what you could do to do better if he responds in a chitty matter go to the dean. or pee in his coffee whatever you choose :aok
I’ve already asked about his grading to which he boldly said “you are wrong”.
Originally posted by Hangtime
Kinda obvious there's no doubt the Prof's aware of the displeasure.
What's his function? Personality contest or teaching? The subject.. something esoteric?
You learning anything?
Choices.. if the guy's a complete idiot, film a class. Send it to the Dean.
Get a list of greviences.. set up a petition, turn it over to the school paper.
If you hope to not waste the course time and credits, shut up and pass. If it's important to you to take the guy down, don't go for half measures.. play to win.
Good luck!
He is instructor to a ‘critical thinking’ which is an introduction to psychology. I wouldn’t say subject is esoteric. In my eyes, it’s not the subject; it’s the person teaching the subject. At the moment, realistically looking at this, I’ve learned in past 6 weeks much less than the rest of my standard courses. Also I had learner’s psychology before with satisfactory grade of A-…. Your ideas about camera, petition and school papers are great, thanks.
Originally posted by midnight Target
I had the same question. He may be pissing everyone off, but are you learning critical thinking? Sounds like maybe you are.
I once had a math teacher that reminded me a little of Columbo. He would act like a confused old man sometimes, standing at the board and kinda moaning over a problem, and we would finally yell out the answers to him like a bunch of exasperated kids. He turned out to be one of the best teachers I ever had.
Also... step away from the thesaurus dude.
Did I learn something? For past 6 weeks, class has been walking in circle learning the difference of thinking and reasoning. Also we have been reading a book called “Amusing Ourselves to Death” by Neil Postman. But this is not about curriculum; it is about his style of presenting it.
(About thesaurus, I’m just practicing my English skills….;) )
Originally posted by ROCrats
Critical Thinking class, were you expecting a Nice Teacher?
Nice? No, I do not care about such things. I do care about people not returning my respect. I do care when he does not even listen to his students, ignoring their opinions. It’s like he is talking to him self, and then asks a question, says to what ever another student answer “NO” and continues on. What ever another student says is wrong…there is no between, gray or compromise. It is always wrong with him. Regardless of facts we provide to him, regardless of our points, its always same NO. Lately no one in class wants to answer because it will always be a NO. On three different occasions a students attempted to walk out because of his disrespect to us. That’s not critical thinking; that is brain fuxking with a side dish of mindless propaganda.
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nahh... these are academics.
What is this? Psych?
First off, you need to ascertain how vulnerable he is, and how well liked he is in the dept. WHat's his title? Is he an adjunct (fire at will) or full tenured professor?
Right now, it doesn't help for you to go to him direclty. I've never had a problem encouraging critical thinking in front of students, though I've had problems with them actually thinking critically. (as an aside, this is why any University teacher with half a brain likes the guys who come marked on the class list as being on a vet payroll. We may be left-wing freaks, but the guys who paid their dues in terms of military service to get into college A) know why they're there and B) can appreciate an environment where the free exchange of ideas is valued over simple mimicking of the prof's lectures) If this guy is an bellybutton to you, chances are he's an bellybutton to the department as well. For your grade, the best advice is Eagl's: suck it up and play dumb. For the good of the school, you need to go to undergraduate course supervisor in the department. If the prof in question is that guy, go to the chair. If he's the chair, change schools. Anyway, express your concerns in a legitimate fashion. A) get guarantees you will not be named -- do this beforehand if possible. B) don't jump to analysis ("He was hampering our ability to think critically"), but give concrete instances. If you can get multiple witnesses up there, so much the better.
If he's an ass, chances are, many of his peers think so too. Give them some ammunition to help everybody out. If he's an adjunct, he's gone. If he's permanent, and you're lucky, he'll be kicked up into administration so the next batch won't have to deal with im.
If the person you speak to says you should have spoken to the professor first, just state that his actions and behavior not only gave you cause to believe, but also concrete evidence, that dissent would be met with retaliation. Name names, if possible (even better if those people aren't in the group making the complaint).
It's hard to get rid of a college prof, but it can be done. The italians will tell you that the mother of a###oles is always pregnant. I'll tell you that jerks like this always have enemies. Even if you can't help yourself, you can help those who follow.
hell, tape a class (fair use, after all)... and bring that. We do have standards, you know.
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Then you have a challenge.
How you adapt and overcome will be very interesting. Keep us informed; would love to hear how this one plays out, Russian.
Stay sharp. You play Chess? Yes? Same rules for success apply.
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I say go for it... revolt. As long as...
You understand what your end-game is. What are you ultimately trying to achieve? His firing? An attitude adjustment? You may achieve the the former, but not the latter. So if you don't really want to get him fired, then there's really no point. If you want to do what's best for you - just transfer out.
But ya know... I've been involved in a couple of these things. An education unto itself. I've felt bad about the outcomes, but there again... it's an education. So I don't discourage it.
College is precisely the time to get freaky and push everything. You're there to learn, and this is no different. God speed.
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Originally posted by Dinger
\The italians will tell you that the mother of a###oles is always pregnant.
Are you from Yonkers NY?
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Seems like there is only one thing to do.
Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga!
Heyyyy thats it.
Get everyone together and all show up for his class wearing Togas.
Should at least blow his mind
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You don't want my advice. My advice usually involves an automatic weapon of some sort and at least half a dozen assorted waterfowl.
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Originally posted by AdmRose
You don't want my advice. My advice usually involves an automatic weapon of some sort and at least half a dozen assorted waterfowl.
I prefer black jacks and burlap sacs myself. Prob wouldn't be missed much.
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Those that can, do.....
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Screw everyone else and listen to me.
Get 3 other good sized male students and one decently F'able female. 1 burlap sack, 3 rolls of duct tape, one lead pipe, an army field surgans kit, a 12 volt lead acid car battery, alligator clips, possibly a potentiometer, a dozen oranges, and a case of regulare coke/pepsi.
kidnap him and beat the crap out of him using the burlap sack and the lead pipe. let him recover for a few days then tape him to a chair and start the "shock treatment". Ask him questions for a few days and shock him with the car battery when you don't beleive him. Testicles work the best. Once this phase is complete surgically remove all of his toe nails, then when he does not want to see reason threaton to surgically re-attach them. Once this phase is complete we move into the brain stinging. Every time he tries to act pompous or better than you bend his chair back and take a shaken up coke can and open it right under his nose so that most of the carbonation and acid go up his nasal passage. Next we sting. This requires very small very precise cuts from surgical scalpals. Cut him all over as much as possible creating almost paperlike cuts. Then procede to peel the oranges over said cuts. When done peeling explain to him the nice cleaning capacity of orange acids.
This should take about a month and require sleep deprivation and much bad music to deny proper sleep. Follow the steps I've outlined and he should be "re-educated" in proper teaching within a month.
:aok
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dude.. that's so wrong.
I can accomplish the same results with a soldering iron and a pair of vise grips in under an hour.
After all, the guys just a liberal college prof.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
dude.. that's so wrong.
I can accomplish the same results with a soldering iron and a pair of vise grips in under an hour.
After all, the guys just a liberal college prof.
F' me I forgot about burning and pressure. I'm drinking tonite so my brain at at 100%
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Russian,
I didn't say anything about the relative value and/or ages between you and the professor. I merely pointed out, and gave some reasoning, that even the most retarded or insulting professor needs to be treated as nothing more than a means to an end. If the only thing you learn from him is how to endure an otherwise intolerable situation, then you've learned something. But get the grade.
I had a teacher for 2 separate classes. He was the assistant head of the electrical engineering department. He couldn't teach his way out of a porta-potty. Every time there were 2 sections of a class with him teaching one and another professor teaching the other, the other class ALWAYS had a B average and his ALWAYS had a C or C- average. I knew he sucked and I knew going in that I wouldn't learn crap in his class, but I didn't treat him as the means to an end, and I let him fail to teach me. Looking back, what I needed to do was study with students from the other section. Instead, I let this one crappy teacher bring me down and I got a C in one of his classes and a D in another, dropping me off of the deans list.
Here's another analogy... Imagine your house sits on a little hill, and has some stairs you have to climb every day to get home. After a while, you really hate those stairs. But what are you really going to do about it? You could spend a lot of effort having the stairs removed and replaced with something "better", maybe a winding footpath, but you'll spend a lot of time and effort that maybe you could spend elsewhere, like painting the house instead. Or you could just not climb the stairs, but then you'd have to live on the street. Or you could sell the house, but that would put your life on hold and moving sucks. Or you can just grit your teeth and keep climbing the stairs until it's in your best interest to make a change, and in the meantime climbing the stairs will make you stronger.
So... You can put a lot of effort into trying to sack the professor or otherwise fight him, you can effectively boycott him by dropping the class or quitting entirely, you could simply stop going to class and take the F, you could change schools, or you could suck it up and do whatever you can to get the grade and get past this obstacle.
It has nothing to do with age or skills as a teacher, it has to do with the fact that unless you want to be an academic or a teacher yourself, school is just some place you have to go to before you go somewhere else, and after you leave nobody cares about anything that happened there except what grades you got and whether you learned anything. One class... It won't make a huge difference on how much you learn, but it can really hurt your transcript if you get a bad grade.
A side effect of fighting the teacher instead of using him to your advantage, is that it leads to a habit of blaming others for your problems. Yes the teacher is a problem, but you need to deal with it in a way that is to YOUR advantage. Merely accepting failure and blaming the teacher is not going to do anything but start you on the path to being a lifelong victim.
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Well, I dunno, eagl's part right and part wrong -- or rather I'd synthesize his statement a little differently.
A major part of one's university training is dealing with bureaucracies. University bureaucracies are the opposite of Military ones in some respects; primarily, the hierarchy is there, but it's effaced by a chaotic notion of collegiality, and the encouragement for holding different opinions.
So a university may be a "means to an end", but chances are, so will your post-university career. And you'll have to deal with idiots in a position of power over you.
Anyway, approaching the problem with the attitude "It's too late for us, but we don't want others to have to endure him" will probably get you the best results. Plus it'll really piss him off.
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just curious... how would a prof know anything about life or the real world in any case?
lazs
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There's hardly ever justice in real life. You'll be a frustrated, angry individual if you always look for it. If the guy is a real nut and the kind that "never gives A's" just drop the class and take it from someone more sane. If you don't run into a wacky teacher in your college career, you are indeed lucky.
I had a systems analysis teacher that was on mars. Unfortunately he was the only systems analysis teacher. I'm very proud of that "C" :D
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Originally posted by BTW
There's hardly ever justice in real life. You'll be a frustrated, angry individual if you always look for it. If the guy is a real nut and the kind that "never gives A's" just drop the class and take it from someone more sane. If you don't run into a wacky teacher in your college career, you are indeed lucky.
Pretty much dead on.
If you want to get to him, show him a picture of a really pretty girl, tell him it's your girlfriend and she is a fantastic lay, then walk away.
That will piss him off.
dago
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Fairfeild, Ca. are you uc-davis? does angela davis still teach there? she knows what to do with those kinda of people. (those in a postion of authority)
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As Eagl says, it's a check in the box.
Get in. Get out. Get done.
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my 1.5 cents
I had a crazy prettythang lib. prof in college. This mofo was mean as heck for the 1st, 2 weeks, Droping "F" bombs and every other kinda bomb you could imagine! He was pick out a non white angalo, and goto town on them (he was being sarcastic come to find out later)
Now all the upper class men told me "Take his class, if you dont learn anything, you couldnt buy and better entertainment for a million dollars"
i was so blown out of the water by this guy, Everything you said was wrong, your an F-in idiot, a F-Cracker white breed A-hole .....it didnt matter to him , he would ruin anyone.....(i allways tried to look innocent so he wouldnt pick me for the day but he got everyone eventually).....Sure lots of people walked out of the room pissy and mad, the point wasnt to upset you, the point was to show you! thats what a REAL TEACHER does..... anyone can read a text book, and most teacher teach right out of those pages,..............but what is said in the class room is what you need too know.(if they are a good teacher).
Like i said once you got past the 1st few weeks it was all good and understood! he did it still but never to the extent + explained to the class that it wasnt you personally he was talking too but the idea, aswell as the predjudgous' that people make.
This guy was a humanities teacher. rarely did he teach us about what we were tested on that was in the book, (that i never read) what he taught us was more about life and the critical thinking most never even think about
That SOB held office hours at a bar every friday from 4-8, the college was Michigan State U. guys name Dr. V. Martin (the V. was for Vwadik). I guess if you were the bellybutton kisser type you would have gone to every friday office hours at the bar, i went a few times but not all, i think thats the only reason he passes me.
Off all the classes i took in my 5 yrs in college THIS IS THE ONLY CLASS I NEVER MISSED A DAY! why ? my friends were right i learned alot, did i pass the class barely with a 2.5 but hey it was worth its weight in gold +!
imo prof's like that are the best ones to have.
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Upon reading this board, I realize that maybe the automatic weapon and half a dozen waterfowl aren't so bad after all.
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Will reply tomorrow...it's too late for today.
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During Monday’s class, we had a revelation. Before the class started, I shared my views to class, mainly same options as discussed on this board. I particularly touched a part that it might be as my friend put it – ‘a genius playing an idiot’. I somewhat managed to cool the class down to allow more time to gather more evidence. There is no need to rush forward with a red banner and die needlessly. But once class started, the professor was like someone else. He was not disrespectful us. He actually listened to class and included our ideas into his discussion/lecture. It actually started my day as a pleasant experience, not a torture as before. In the end of a class, I approached teacher and told him – ‘thank you for valuing our opinions and respecting us’ I think that was a bit shocking to him and he apologetically replied that future classes will not be as before. I didn’t dig to the reasons behind his past behavior; even professional teachers get bad days.
Anyhow, it seems this was a false alarm. Thank you, AH community, for your views on this issue. It helped a lot to build various choices.
Dinger,
Some good ideas you have there. Thanks.
Eagl,
I appreciate different views, thank you for that. You might want to think about this quote though “You’ve got to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything.”
JTs,
Negative, this is not in US-Davis.
Boxboy28,
It will be helpful if you actually read an entire thread before replying.
AdmRose, Gunslinger and Hangtime
Good stuff, thanks.
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Russian i did read it, and you did the right thing! WTG all i was trying to say is approach him civilly like you did. with the whole class behind you its good. I was just telling of my experiance with a prof of the same nature.......course at the Office hours he was a great funny guy to spend time with.
But thanks none the less for miss reading what i said.
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Russian i did read it, and you did the right thing! WTG all i was trying to say is approach him civilly like you did. with the whole class behind you its good. I was just telling of my experiance with a prof of the same nature.......course at the Office hours he was a great funny guy to spend time with.
But thanks none the less for miss reading what i said.
I did slightly misread it. It sounded as if you were comparing two and trying to justify his actions, but in fact you were just sharing past experience. My mistake.
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While doing the usual one sided lecture, some of the students finally had enough of his behavior.
If you've had enough of lectures, don't go to school.
his near none-existent ability to show respect and value of student’s opinions finally reached us.
When you get PhD and a professorship and he takes your class, then you can expect him to respect and value your opinions. Until then STFU.
As a result with asperity, couple of us voiced our chagrin opinion of his teaching style.
Out of line. Totally inappropriate to bring that up in public during class.
He did not muse over what we said, he just blatantly ignored us.
As well he should have.
To which he turned towards me and said “Go watch a movie” and left the class. I was shocked by his reply.
I'm shocked he didn't say or do something more angry after the incredible behavior of his students.
A) Ignore him, do my own thing and try to pass the class.
Sensible.
B) Confront him again and try to figure out his reasons (Is this experiment on us?)
Inappropriate
Try to use chain of command or equivalent of it and voice my opinion (which is shared by majority of the class)
Best choice
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FUNKED1
You don’t have to unsheathe your pitchfork; everything is resolved. But I see you like pedagogy….congratulation; no one will look down on you. I, on the other hand, do not.
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Yes I believe in teachers teaching and students learning. You are paying him to teach you. You are not paying him to be your buddy and stroke your ego. If this is what you wanted, then you misunderstand the teacher/student relationship.
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Go to the dean and tell him whats going on. If he dont seem to care, tell him and you already went ahead and filed a complaint with the regional and state dept's of education. Also tell him that if the teacher keeps it up (treating you unfairly if you have proof), you will take leglal action against the teacher to have him removed from his position.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yes I believe in teachers teaching and students learning. You are paying him to teach you. You are not paying him to be your buddy and stroke your ego. If this is what you wanted, then you misunderstand the teacher/student relationship.
You missed my reciprocate imprecation completely. Sigh.
This is not about ego or making friends. This is about the teaching style.
Pedagogy – art of teaching children
Andragogy – art of teaching adults
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I sanctify I now gather from your semantic respectability. I regard to special if I saw the guy in imprisonment I would learn your lamentation reformatory.