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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2005, 11:06:46 PM

Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2005, 11:06:46 PM
Best Western film evar!!1!! (Jeez, I was in love with Marianna Hill when I was 13)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: VOR on September 30, 2005, 11:07:59 PM
I think Unforgiven outshadowed his earlier westerns.

But...painting the town red was never so cool! :aok
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2005, 11:20:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VOR


But...painting the town red was never so cool! :aok

"I think you know who I am...."
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on September 30, 2005, 11:22:11 PM
"The Searchers" was one the best westerns produced, if not THE best.

Personally, I thought "Dances With Wolves" was a bit too much politically correct fluff-n-feathers.

I like Eastwoods westerns, but they're hardly realistic.  But...dayum...."The Unforgiven" was a good-un!
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Hangtime on September 30, 2005, 11:28:22 PM
"Dyin ain't much of a livin, mister."  --Outlaw Josey Wales
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on September 30, 2005, 11:32:36 PM
"After what you did here today I've got to kill that man."
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2005, 11:34:36 PM
I get this feeling that the good old days of Westerns are going to go the way of the classical comedy if they haven't already...(You know, the comedy where 4 letter words were not necessary to get a good laugh)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on September 30, 2005, 11:53:02 PM
Yep...it was a sad day for Americans when Hollywood discovered the 'f' word.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Hangtime on September 30, 2005, 11:56:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
"The Searchers" was one the best westerns produced, if not THE best.

 


Old Mose wuz my favorite character..

"I ate dirt, Ethan. They thought I wuz crazy, an they let me go..."

Now, damn near 50 years later, I'm feeling like 'ol Mose... "just wan my rocker by the fire Ethan, warm my old bones.."
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: SOB on September 30, 2005, 11:59:33 PM
"Such ingratitute after all the times I've saved your life" -The Good

"He gave me 1,000 dollars.  I think the idea was that I kill you.  But you know when I've been paid, I always see the job through" -The Bad

"When you have to shoot, shoot…don't talk." -The Ugly
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Debonair on October 01, 2005, 12:15:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
...."When you have to shoot, shoot…don't talk." -The Ugly


Followed shortly by "I get dressed, I kill'im, I be right back"
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: FiLtH on October 01, 2005, 12:17:26 AM
High plains scared me as a kid i remember. Eerie.

    "Who are yoooooou!?"



















   "Im your worst nightmare"   oops wrong flick
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 01:40:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Old Mose wuz my favorite character..

"I ate dirt, Ethan. They thought I wuz crazy, an they let me go..."

Now, damn near 50 years later, I'm feeling like 'ol Mose... "just wan my rocker by the fire Ethan, warm my old bones.."


"Son Watch it with that knife!"

"Turn around and let me see your back...Yep. Thats a yankee cavalryman alright"
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 01:42:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
[B

"When you have to shoot, shoot…don't talk." -The Ugly [/B]


GREAT Line
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 01:44:41 AM
"You can call me father, you can call me Jake, you can call me Jakob You can call me a dirty rotten SOB. But if you ever call me daddy again we're gonna finish this fight"
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: JB42 on October 01, 2005, 01:47:50 AM
Come on, the whole Rooster Cogburn series was awesome.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Rino on October 01, 2005, 02:09:30 AM
You guys see Open Range?  I loved the fact that some guys
actually MISSED their targets during the big gunfight ;)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 03:06:30 AM
John Wayne wanted to do a western with Clint Eastwood for several years. Until Eastwood did "High Plains Drifter".

"Rio Bravo" was done because John Wayne and John Ford thought that "High Noon" was all wrong, with the sheriff begging for help. It worked so well they did "ElDorado" and "Rio Lobo". The James Cann character Mississippi in "ElDorado" was supposed to be a total fool, but he played it mostly straight and the director loved it. I bought a big Appaloosa stud after I watched "ElDorado". We watched it years later, long after the horse was killed by lightning, and my wife said "isn't John Wayne's horse ugly?" I thought my brother would die laughing.

When John Wayne hit Bruce Dern in "The Cowboys", Bruce Dern spent the next SIX WEEKS in a neck brace.

I always thought the worst looking hit in a western was probably when John Wayne hit George Kennedy in the face with a pick handle in "The Sons of Katie Elder". I still flinch every time I see it.

The darkest, most bitter version of Wyatt Earp was probably done by James Garner in "Hour of the Gun".

"Tombstone" would have been Robert Mitchum's last movie, but Mitchum was hurt in an accident with a horse, so they had him narrarate it instead.

They say John Wayne was barely in the top ten of the fastest actors with a sixgun. The fastest was Jerry Lewis. Sammy Davis Jr. was close to the top. One of the smoothest and fastest was James Garner. James Arness, Matt Dillon from "Gunsmoke" was actually VERY slow. Steve McQueen was barely in the top ten as well. Dean Martin was fast. I used to have a clip where Bob Munden (holds the record for fastdraw) went through the top 20.
Kind of funny to see how many I thought were fast weren't even in the top 20.

It's kind of funny, but there's a big group of actors listed at IMDB.com as "one of a group commonly used by John Wanye in his movies". James Garner had a group he used a lot as well.

"Well, let's just say I'm on your side, and this is no........ job for amatuers."
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 03:09:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
"You can call me father, you can call me Jake, you can call me Jakob You can call me a dirty rotten SOB. But if you ever call me daddy again we're gonna finish this fight"


John Wayne in "Big Jake" to his son, Patrick Wayne.

"Sorry don't get it done Dude, that's the second time you've hit me, don't ever do it again."
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 03:11:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB42
Come on, the whole Rooster Cogburn series was awesome.


Yeah, they were both pretty good. But the three in the "Rio Bravo" pattern were better I thought.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Ripsnort on October 01, 2005, 07:03:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
John Wayne wanted to do a western with Clint Eastwood for several years. Until Eastwood did "High Plains Drifter".

"Rio Bravo" was done because John Wayne and John Ford thought that "High Noon" was all wrong, with the sheriff begging for help. It worked so well they did "ElDorado" and "Rio Lobo". The James Cann character Mississippi in "ElDorado" was supposed to be a total fool, but he played it mostly straight and the director loved it. I bought a big Appaloosa stud after I watched "ElDorado". We watched it years later, long after the horse was killed by lightning, and my wife said "isn't John Wayne's horse ugly?" I thought my brother would die laughing.

When John Wayne hit Bruce Dern in "The Cowboys", Bruce Dern spent the next SIX WEEKS in a neck brace.

I always thought the worst looking hit in a western was probably when John Wayne hit George Kennedy in the face with a pick handle in "The Sons of Katie Elder". I still flinch every time I see it.

The darkest, most bitter version of Wyatt Earp was probably done by James Garner in "Hour of the Gun".

"Tombstone" would have been Robert Mitchum's last movie, but Mitchum was hurt in an accident with a horse, so they had him narrarate it instead.

They say John Wayne was barely in the top ten of the fastest actors with a sixgun. The fastest was Jerry Lewis. Sammy Davis Jr. was close to the top. One of the smoothest and fastest was James Garner. James Arness, Matt Dillon from "Gunsmoke" was actually VERY slow. Steve McQueen was barely in the top ten as well. Dean Martin was fast. I used to have a clip where Bob Munden (holds the record for fastdraw) went through the top 20.
Kind of funny to see how many I thought were fast weren't even in the top 20.

It's kind of funny, but there's a big group of actors listed at IMDB.com as "one of a group commonly used by John Wanye in his movies". James Garner had a group he used a lot as well.

"Well, let's just say I'm on your side, and this is no........ job for amatuers."

Great read!
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on October 01, 2005, 07:28:33 AM
It doesn't surprise me that Jerry Lewis had the fastest draw.  Lewis was extremely athletic.  Personally, I always harbored the sneaking suspicion that he could kick Dean Martin's arse.

Also heard that Audie Murphy had one of the fastest draws in Hollywood.  Yeah yeah...I know...Duh!

Bob Munden is unreal.  When he was younger, you couldn't even see his hand move.  Muzzle flame just seemed to appear in mid-air.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 07:52:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Great read!


Yeah. Just goes to prove I watch too many westerns.

The other night, we were watching John Wayne's tribute to Red Adair, "Hellfighters". Pretty much the same group of guys he used throughout the years. I looked over on IMDB.com and saw that he died within a couple of days of one of his favorite co-stars, Jim Hutton.

In the middle of the last part of that movie is a scene where Jim Hutton, playing the friend and son-in-law to John Wayne is in trouble in South America, and John Wayne comes done with a plane load of equipment. It's an Air Force transport, and as the nose door drops, you see John Wayne standing there in his cowboy hat, riding jacket, and boots, smiling and waving. I looked at my wife and said, "I'd like to see that damned near as much as I'd like to see my own father again." Damned sure wouldn't do this country any harm either.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 07:59:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
It doesn't surprise me that Jerry Lewis had the fastest draw.  Lewis was extremely athletic.  Personally, I always harbored the sneaking suspicion that he could kick Dean Martin's arse.

Also heard that Audie Murphy had one of the fastest draws in Hollywood.  Yeah yeah...I know...Duh!

Bob Munden is unreal.  When he was younger, you couldn't even see his hand move.  Muzzle flame just seemed to appear in mid-air.


Yeah, Audie Murphy was no slouch. Munden said he was way up there in speed. Course, few had the incentive to develop speed and marksmanship he did.

Until age and poor health caught up with him, Jerry Lewis was a master at physical comedy. It took a lot of skill and talent to do the gags and pratfalls he did.

Dean Martin was an amatuer boxer who almost went pro. He'd have never been a legend like he was on the screen or the radio, but he had a pretty decent record. I heard some moron a while back say Dean Martin only had an "average" voice.

Munden is still damned fast, still a master of exhibition shooting, and also a damned good gunsmith.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on October 01, 2005, 08:02:17 AM
Dean was one of the very best of the old-style crooners.  That's a style of singing that is rapidly dieing out.

Dam shame.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 01, 2005, 08:13:06 AM
I still listen to him sometimes, and Sinatra as well. But then I also listen to big band stuff from the 30's and 40's too. I appreciate most styles of music, at least the better artists and groups. But I can't stand any form of "rap" or "R&B" (which ain't rythym and blues, I don't give a ch!t what anyone says).
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 01, 2005, 08:53:20 AM
best eastwood westerns?  allmost all of em but..  Unforgiven #1 then josey whales  tie for the rest..

The searchers and hour of the gun for older westerns

The shootist for Wayne.

Wild bunch and open range...  even costner didn't screw it up too much.

Best shootouts had to be the wild bunch and open range.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 01, 2005, 08:55:57 AM
most of the real gunfighters weren't particularly fast.... most often they didn't even get the first shot off...  they allways got the killing one off tho.

lazs
Title: Re: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 11:43:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Best Western film evar!!1!! (Jeez, I was in love with Marianna Hill when I was 13)


She was hot. :)

(http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/drnoel.jpg)


Yes, that's a Star Trek uniform. :D
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Godzilla on October 01, 2005, 11:58:14 AM
Unforgiven is my favorite Eastwood movie.

Bill Munny: Who's the owner of this ****hole?
Skinny Dubois: I, I am. I bought the place from Greeley in '79 and
[Will shoots him]
Little Bill Daggett: You, sir, are a murdering son of a *****! You just shot an unarmed man!
Bill Munny: He should have armed himself if he was goin' to decorate his establishment with my friend.



Bill Munny: I ain't like that no more. I ain't the same, Ned. Claudia, she straightened me up, cleared me of drinkin' whiskey and all. Just 'cause we're goin' on this killing, that don't mean I'm gonna go back to bein' the way I was. I just need the money, get a new start for them youngsters. Ned, you remember that drover I shot through the mouth and his teeth came out the back of his head? I think about him now and again. He didn't do anything to deserve to get shot, at least nothin' I could remember when I sobered up.
Ned Logan: You were crazy, Will.
Bill Munny: Yeah, no one liked me. Mountain boys all thought I was gonna shoot 'em out of pure meanness.
Ned Logan: Well, like I said, you ain't like that no more.
Bill Munny: That's right. I'm just a fella now. I ain't no different than anyone else no more.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ned Logan: Hell, Will. We ain't bad men no more. ****, we're farmers.
Bill Munny: Should be easy killing them, supposing they don't go on down to Texas first.
Ned Logan: How long has it been since you fired a gun at a man, Will? Nine, ten years?
Bill Munny: Eleven.
Ned Logan: Easy, huh? Hell, I don't know that it was all that easy even back then. And we was young and full of beans. I mean, if you was mad at 'em, Will, I mean. If they'd done you some wrong, I could see shooting 'em



Some of the best writing ever in a movie.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Widewing on October 01, 2005, 12:02:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
best eastwood westerns?  allmost all of em but..  Unforgiven #1 then josey whales  tie for the rest..

The searchers and hour of the gun for older westerns

The shootist for Wayne.

Wild bunch and open range...  even costner didn't screw it up too much.

Best shootouts had to be the wild bunch and open range.

lazs


Yeah, Open Range was extremely well done... Except for the half-second delay between when Costner fired the Winchester and the bullet splashed the water trough... Great muzzle velocity; about 50 fps.. LOL Needed a faster guy on that det board!

I enjoyed the beginning of the shootout scene where Costner's character caught the gunfighter braggin' and not ready for his opening move.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Widewing on October 01, 2005, 12:24:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
most of the real gunfighters weren't particularly fast.... most often they didn't even get the first shot off...  they allways got the killing one off tho.

lazs


Very true.... Some gunfighters referred to this quality as "deliberation".

A rule usually used by those who hoped to live a long life was NOT to engage in a "fair fight". Sometimes they'd simply shoot them down the instant their enemy stepped onto the street.

I forget the guy's name, a detective for Wells Fargo (Hume, perhaps), but this guy preferred a Winchester carbine or a 10 ga shotgun to a hand gun. As I'm sure lazs knows better than most, a 16" or 20" lever carbine is helluva lot more able than a 44-40 or 45 LC revolver. Later Winchester actions, like the 1886 and 1892 (Browning designs) were nearly as fast as a modern semi-auto. One of the preferred Winchesters of the late 19th century was the model 1892 chambered in .32-20 WCF. Low recoil, super-slick and fast action. Very little muzzle flip meant that all rounds would likely be on or damn close to the target, even when cycling 2 or more rounds a second. Very popular with law officers wanting a fast, low recoil carbine for both close and medium distances.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 12:26:22 PM
" You went out there to talk , why did you have to shoot the man!!!
" The conversation kinda dried up ma'am"
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 12:34:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
John Wayne wanted to do a western with Clint Eastwood for several years. Until Eastwood did "High Plains Drifter".

"Rio Bravo" was done because John Wayne and John Ford thought that "High Noon" was all wrong, with the sheriff begging for help. It worked so well they did "ElDorado" and "Rio Lobo". The James Cann character Mississippi in "ElDorado" was supposed to be a total fool, but he played it mostly straight and the director loved it. I bought a big Appaloosa stud after I watched "ElDorado". We watched it years later, long after the horse was killed by lightning, and my wife said "isn't John Wayne's horse ugly?" I thought my brother would die laughing.

When John Wayne hit Bruce Dern in "The Cowboys", Bruce Dern spent the next SIX WEEKS in a neck brace.

I always thought the worst looking hit in a western was probably when John Wayne hit George Kennedy in the face with a pick handle in "The Sons of Katie Elder". I still flinch every time I see it.

The darkest, most bitter version of Wyatt Earp was probably done by James Garner in "Hour of the Gun".

"Tombstone" would have been Robert Mitchum's last movie, but Mitchum was hurt in an accident with a horse, so they had him narrarate it instead.

They say John Wayne was barely in the top ten of the fastest actors with a sixgun. The fastest was Jerry Lewis. Sammy Davis Jr. was close to the top. One of the smoothest and fastest was James Garner. James Arness, Matt Dillon from "Gunsmoke" was actually VERY slow. Steve McQueen was barely in the top ten as well. Dean Martin was fast. I used to have a clip where Bob Munden (holds the record for fastdraw) went through the top 20.
Kind of funny to see how many I thought were fast weren't even in the top 20.

It's kind of funny, but there's a big group of actors listed at IMDB.com as "one of a group commonly used by John Wanye in his movies". James Garner had a group he used a lot as well.

"Well, let's just say I'm on your side, and this is no........ job for amatuers."


"The Searchers" Which was probably one of the best jobs as an actor Wayne did was the only movie he tried method acting in.
Afterwards he swore he'd never do it again

guess he had problems getting out of charactor
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 12:40:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

In the middle of the last part of that movie is a scene where Jim Hutton, playing the friend and son-in-law to John Wayne is in trouble in South America, and John Wayne comes done with a plane load of equipment. It's an Air Force transport, and as the nose door drops, you see John Wayne standing there in his cowboy hat, riding jacket, and boots, smiling and waving. I looked at my wife and said, "I'd like to see that damned near as much as I'd like to see my own father again." Damned sure wouldn't do this country any harm either.


Yea.


but I think if Wayne were around now he'd be pretty disgusted at what we've become.

A place where men are no longer expected to and in some cases allowed to be men.
Nobody stands for anything anymore.
Political correctness would drive him bonkers

As much as I'd love to see him again. I think he probably checked out and just the right time
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 12:59:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

but I think if Wayne were around now he'd be pretty disgusted at what we've become.


I think was Marion Morrison was just another actor... and his opinion means dick.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 01, 2005, 02:22:45 PM
yep... you never take a handgun when you can take a rifle or shotgun but the old 44 40 or 45 colt was still a very good manstopper if you hit the guy..

What lever actions did then they can still do.  very good gun in a practiced hand for carbine ranges...  the old 45-70 is still unbeatable for penetration.  

in open range tho.. while it was very neat... it did show single action colts being fanned with virtually no recoil... some 8 shooters too..  

One scene was kinda to the point widewing makes about rifles... when they board their horses and are going to see the crooked sheriff...  Duval says "hold on" as the guy leads the horse away and they both grab lever actions out of the saddle scabbards even tho they both have holstered sidearms.

most gunfights were either close enough to set the guys clothes on fire (literaly) or multiple pistol rounds were fired with few if any hits.... only the best... the most "deliberate" would score hits... and a hit with a 250 grain slug would really put a man down.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 01, 2005, 03:19:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I think was Marion Morrison was just another actor... and his opinion means dick.


then you obviously do not know much about Marion Morrison
and nobody really gives a rats arse what you think ;)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shifty on October 01, 2005, 03:37:02 PM
My favorite westerns in order
1 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
2 Outlaw Josey Wales
3 Big Jake

John Wayne's opinon means nothing??
Okay I'll buy that if you throw  Barbera Striesands, Sean Penns, Alec Baldwins, Susan Sorandens, and Tim Robbins, opinons under the same bus.:aok
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 03:41:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
then you obviously do not know much about Marion Morrison
and nobody really gives a rats arse what you think ;)


60 years ago they could pull off this "American Icon" bull****.

Today, not so much.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 01, 2005, 05:57:26 PM
who is "they"?

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 06:10:50 PM
The agents of popular culture. ;)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Panzzer on October 01, 2005, 06:21:19 PM
I've always liked the "Pale Rider", although the best IMO is "For A Few Dollars More"... It's got everything a good western needs - except pretty women.. And the second one in my list is the "Outlaw Josey Wales"...
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Squire on October 01, 2005, 06:47:42 PM
"The Man who shot Liberty Valance for the Duke", and maybe "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon". Both classics.

"Outlaw Josey Wales" for Eastwood. Hands down.

"The Wild Bunch" was a snuff film hehe. Just j/k, William Holden was great in that one.

I rather liked "The Mussouri Breaks" with Jack Nicholson and Marlon Brando, thats one on my all time faves.

"Open Range" was quite good. You have to like Robert Duvall in any western...and Costner was ok too.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Shuckins on October 01, 2005, 09:00:25 PM
"To hell with them fellas.  Buzzards have gotta eat too."

"You gonna pull them pistols or whistle Dixie?"
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: FiLtH on October 01, 2005, 09:34:39 PM
Whats the movie where Wayne is a sheriff, Martin is the drunk deputy, and Walter Brennan is the old geezer side kick. The whole movie was Wayne and Martin strolling the streets...and telling Brennan to get back in the cell area. "Im a goin!"

  I actually got bored watching it. Rio Bravo?
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: J_A_B on October 01, 2005, 09:52:58 PM
If you don't like John Wayne, either you're un-american or you have too much estrogen in your bloodstream.


J_A_B
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Godzilla on October 01, 2005, 09:59:23 PM
I never liked John Wayne. He always came across to me as a "dressed up" hollywood "cowboy"

He has nothing on Clint Eastwood.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Debonair on October 01, 2005, 10:10:40 PM
Nobody mentioned Blazing Saddles yet
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: J_A_B on October 01, 2005, 10:12:42 PM
John Wayne (http://www.jwplace.com/biography.html)

J_A_B
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 10:23:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Godzilla
I never liked John Wayne. He always came across to me as a "dressed up" hollywood "cowboy"

He has nothing on Clint Eastwood.


Don't you mean, "dressed up, and draft dodging Hollywood cowboy"?

:D

Pffft... some of us didn't buy into John Ford's mythmaking.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Godzilla on October 01, 2005, 10:36:37 PM
Who's John Ford?

I just never liked John Wayne. He always had this fake cowboy outfit and look in every western. Sometimes he even had pink shirts, for the love of cod.

Just never cared for his acting or his look.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 01, 2005, 10:45:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Godzilla
Who's John Ford?


The film director (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000406/) that made John Wayne an icon. (Stagecoach, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Rio Grande, etc.)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 12:39:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
yep... you never take a handgun when you can take a rifle or shotgun but the old 44 40 or 45 colt was still a very good manstopper if you hit the guy..

What lever actions did then they can still do.  very good gun in a practiced hand for carbine ranges...  the old 45-70 is still unbeatable for penetration.   ........................

lazs


I just picked up a Springfield trapdoor carbine in .45-70, looking forward to many fun matches with it.  Dang thing sounds and feels like a cannon going off every time you shoot it.  Leaves a big grin on my face every time.  :)  Paying for reloading those big bastiges isnt cheap though.

I've decided my next purchase is going to be a pair of S&W Model 3s in .44 Russian.  I got to shoot one recently and fell in love.  The break top action is kind of awkward, and they look a little goofy at first, but man are they sweet shooters.  Lots of folks back in the late 1800s called the .44 Russian the finest handgun ever made.  I can see why.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 12:52:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeah. Just goes to prove I watch too many westerns.


That, sir, is impossible.  :)

The great thing about all those movies is, with the invention of the DVD they have been re-released and are widely available (and dirt cheap).

I've been picking them up from the Wal Mart $5.50 and $7.50 bins, and there's lots of other good ones coming around.  I just bought season one of Steve McQueen's "Wanted: Dead or Alive" last month for $19.99.  Love that Mare's Leg of his.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 12:54:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Don't you mean, "dressed up, and draft dodging Hollywood cowboy"?

:D

Pffft... some of us didn't buy into John Ford's mythmaking.


You dont have to buy into the Myth to love John Wayne or his movies.  He was human.  He had his faults just like anyone else.  He was still a great man.  And for anyone who doubted his acting ability in his later years, watch "The Cowboys" and tell me he cant act.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 12:56:54 AM
Although I have to say my all time favorite John Wayne movie wasnt a western.  

"The Quiet Man" has always been, and always will be, my favorite John Wayne movie.  He and Maureen O'Hara made a great couple on screen.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Steve on October 02, 2005, 01:05:16 AM
Quote
Dyin ain't much of a livin, mister."


Actually he doesn't say mister, he says boy.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 02, 2005, 02:16:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
You dont have to buy into the Myth to love John Wayne or his movies.  He was human.  He had his faults just like anyone else.  He was still a great man.  And for anyone who doubted his acting ability in his later years, watch "The Cowboys" and tell me he cant act.


No doubt. He was a great actor in that "same role in every movie much like Ben Affleck" sort of way.

As to being a great man... I lack evidence to support this opinion. The list of great men who were also actors is a damn short one, but this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy) should be at the top of it.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 05:41:39 AM
I agree 100%.  Audie Murphy was one hell of a guy, by anyone's definition.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Leslie on October 02, 2005, 07:39:12 AM
Springfield trapdoors are the weakest actions of any rifle of that period.  Very risky to shoot one of those rifles when they first came out.  Modern loads and pressures are not safe with that rifle action.  



Les
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 02, 2005, 09:24:41 AM
star...  I just bought dead or alive also but it hasn't come yet... also guns of will sonnet..

I bought and thoroughly enjoyed both seasons of Have gun will travel..

as for steves "mares leg"  horrible idea..... same barrel length as a pistol so same velocity... less capacity probly could only hol 3 or 4 rounds in the cut down tube..

in the 45-70 I want one of the marlin stainless "guide guns" lever actions.   shot one and it was impressive.    It would cost little more to reload for than a 30 ought six.    Bout 50 grains of powder vs 46 or so... plus.. you could shoot lead bullets instead of jacketed..  

in the site russian links the 45-70 outpenetrates 308 in bulletproof glass.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Leslie on October 02, 2005, 09:55:42 AM
That would be a nice one Lazs.  Always liked the Marlins.  For single shot replicas, the 45-70 Sharps hunting rifle would be fun and safe and more convenient than making your own rounds like for the 50-70 carbine, which I have and must cast bullets for.   Ammo not for sale anywhere it is a completely obsolete rifle.  Was used by the Army during the first 6 months of 1873 and was replaced by the Winchester '73.

Mine is loaded at minimum load and surprizingly only has the recoil and report of about a .22.  Killed my first deer with that rifle.





Les
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 10:04:46 AM
Heh.  I agree in theory that the mare's leg idea is probably the worst thing you could ever do to a rifle.

But on the other hand for a fantasy world like TV it JUST LOOKS SO DANG COOL!  :)

The chick on Firefly has one too, reminded me of those shows.

Wasnt W: DoA Steve McQueen's first starring role in a TV series?
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 02, 2005, 10:20:48 AM
the chick on firefly has a spectacular butt..... her choice of firearms is not good tho.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: DREDIOCK on October 02, 2005, 02:22:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Don't you mean, "dressed up, and draft dodging Hollywood cowboy"?

:D

Pffft... some of us didn't buy into John Ford's mythmaking.


Didnt know they were drafting 34 year olds in WWII

Like I said You obviously dont know much about him

Early on he hoped to attend Annapolis and was named as an alternate selection but the first choice took the appointment.

During the war Wayne tried to enlist but was rejected because of an old shoulder injury, his age (34) and his status as a married father of 4. He flew to Washinton to plead he be allowed to join the Navy but was turned down
'
during 1944 he spent 3 months touring the forward positions in the pacific theater

After the ware Emporer Herohito visited the US and  saught out Wayne to pay tribute to the one who represented the USA's success in combat

In Vietnam he scorned VIP treatment insisting on visiting the troops in the feild and once had his helocopter land in the midst of a battle

when in the hospital for the last time he learned the engines on the yacht he had sold neded minor repairs he had the engines overhauled at the cost of 40K because he had told the new owner it was in good shape.

Returning late ne night to his hotel he received a message lef tto hom from a woman whos child lay critically ill in the hospital
the note read "It would mean so much to her if you could pay her just a breif visit" he left the hotel and at 3AM visited her and every other patient on the floor who happened to be awake

During his last days when the doctors told him there was no nope he refused painkillers so he could be alert to spend the last days with his family. He died of lung and stomach cancer.
Stomach cancer being one of the most painful ways to die.


1973 as honored with the VFWs highest award "the National americanism Gold medal"

 1979 Awarded Wayne the" Congressional Gold medal" by congress

Wash DC May 12 1998 Wayne is honord byt the army in naming the RAH-66 helocopter after him "the Duke"


as Elizibeth Taylor once said "He gave the world an image of what an American should be"

I agree

Wayne often said
"I've tried to live my life so that my family loves me and my friends respect me. the rest can do what the hell they please"

Like I said before.
Nobody gives a rats arse what you think.
He wouldnt have either.

Just another actor indeed
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 02, 2005, 02:42:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Like I said before.
Nobody gives a rats arse what you think.
He wouldnt have either.



Evidently, you have just enough rat's tulips to compel you to respond.

John Wayne was a phony.

Real Hollywood Heros (http://wyolife.com/KerryFest/WWII%20Actors.htm)
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 02:51:51 PM
I dont see anything on that website that makes any claims as to the authenticity of John Wayne as a human being.  Not everyone gets to serve in the armed forces, even in time of war.  He did what he could as a civilian, and thats more than alot of people do.  Its more than I've done.  Not that I have any idea how I could be of any service, but if a chance was offered I'd sure like to try.

You obviously have strong negative feelings towards JW, would you like to give some reasons?  Or is anyone who didnt serve in the military a "phony" in your book?
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 02, 2005, 03:06:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2

You obviously have strong negative feelings towards JW, would you like to give some reasons?  Or is anyone who didnt serve in the military a "phony" in your book?


It's not negative. It's neutral, a complete and total lack of awe.

Guys like Henry Ford, James Stewart, and more recently Pat Tillman left their fortunate lives behind and walked the walk. These men impress me.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 02, 2005, 08:23:31 PM
So a man who WOULD have gone, but was refused to allow to serve, he deserves to be called a phony?  I think that's pretty harsh.  He was an actor.  He wasnt allowed to play the real part, so he did the only thing he could.  He saluted those men who DID serve by making movies about them and making them look like heros.  If that makes him a phony in your eyes, then I guess so be it.  I'd be proud to be that much of a phony.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: GtoRA2 on October 02, 2005, 08:40:55 PM
I like High plains drifter.

One of Clints best.

Outlaw Josey wales was great tell it got ruined the second that sandra lock broud showed on the screen.


The Searchers was a big suprise for me, John Wayne did a fine acting job,  a very dark movie that one.

For a fun western I like Silverrado.


I like the cowboys alot too.


True grit is prolly my fav though.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 02, 2005, 10:33:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
So a man who WOULD have gone, but was refused to allow to serve, he deserves to be called a phony?  I think that's pretty harsh.  He was an actor.  He wasnt allowed to play the real part, so he did the only thing he could.  He saluted those men who DID serve by making movies about them and making them look like heros.  If that makes him a phony in your eyes, then I guess so be it.  I'd be proud to be that much of a phony.


According to Cecil Adams:

Quote
John Wayne, draft dodger? Oh, what delicious (if cheap) irony! But that judgment is a little harsh. As Garry Wills tells the story in his book John Wayne's America: The Politics of Celebrity (1997), the Duke faced a tough choice at the outset of World War II. If he wimped out, don't be so sure a lot of us wouldn't have done the same.

At the time of Pearl Harbor, Wayne was 34 years old. His marriage was on the rocks but he still had four kids to support. His career was taking off, in large part on the strength of his work in the classic western Stagecoach (1939). But he wasn't rich. Should he chuck it all and enlist? Many of Hollywood's big names, such as Henry Fonda, Jimmy Stewart, and Clark Gable, did just that. (Fonda, Wills points out, was 37 at the time and had a wife and three kids.) But these were established stars. Wayne knew that if he took a few years off for military service, there was a good chance that by the time he got back he'd be over the hill.

Besides, he specialized in the kind of movies a nation at war wanted to see, in which a rugged American hero overcame great odds. Recognizing that Hollywood was an important part of the war effort, Washington had told California draft boards to go easy on actors. Perhaps rationalizing that he could do more good at home, Wayne obtained 3-A status, "deferred for [family] dependency reasons." He told friends he'd enlist after he made just one or two more movies.

The real question is why he never did so. Wayne cranked out thirteen movies during the war, many with war-related themes. Most of the films were enormously successful and within a short time the Duke was one of America's most popular stars. His bankability now firmly established, he could have joined the military, secure in the knowledge that Hollywood would welcome him back later. He even made a half-hearted effort to sign up, sending in the paperwork to enlist in the naval photography unit commanded by a good friend, director John Ford.

But he didn't follow through. Nobody really knows why; Wayne didn't like to talk about it. A guy who prided himself on doing his own stunts, he doesn't seem to have lacked physical courage. One suspects he just found it was a lot more fun being a Hollywood hero than the real kind. Many movie star-soldiers had enlisted in the first flush of patriotism after Pearl Harbor. As the war ground on, slogging it out in the trenches seemed a lot less exciting. The movies, on the other hand, had put Wayne well on the way to becoming a legend. "Wayne increasingly came to embody the American fighting man," Wills writes. In late 1943 and early 1944 he entertained the troops in the Pacific theater as part of a USO tour. An intelligence bigshot asked him to give his impression of Douglas MacArthur. He was fawned over by the press when he got back. Meanwhile, he was having a torrid affair with a beautiful Mexican woman. How could military service compare with that?

In 1944, Wayne received a 2-A classification, "deferred in support of [the] national . . . interest." A month later the Selective Service decided to revoke many previous deferments and reclassified him 1-A. But Wayne's studio appealed and got his 2-A status reinstated until after the war ended.

People who knew Wayne say he felt bad about not having served. (During the war he'd gotten into a few fights with servicemen who wondered why he wasn't in uniform.) Some think his guilty conscience was one reason he became such a superpatriot later. The fact remains that the man who came to symbolize American patriotism and pride had a chance to do more than just act the part, and he let it pass.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Steve on October 02, 2005, 11:17:29 PM
Quote
Outlaw Josey wales was great tell it got ruined the second that sandra lock broud showed on the screen.


I repsectfully disagree.  The movie was good enough that even that skank couldn't ruin it
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 02, 2005, 11:20:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
I repsectfully disagree.  The movie was good enough that even that skank couldn't ruin it


Fortunately, her part was a relatively small one.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 03, 2005, 08:21:10 AM
the shootist was a good wayne movie.

Iwould say that if wayne visited the troops... especially in the hot zones... he probly did as much for the country and the troops as 90% of the soldiers... he probly was in as much danger as about 50% of the veterans of most wars.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: midnight Target on October 03, 2005, 08:54:45 AM
Open Range - bought the DVD, best gunfight.
The Shootist - Wayne at his best
True Grit - One good line and one good scene "Fill your hand you son-of-a*****!"
The Unforgiven - Excellent
Silverado - Hokey , but fun to watch.
High Noon - Tic tock .. great flick.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Sandman on October 03, 2005, 10:10:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Open Range - bought the DVD, best gunfight.
The Shootist - Wayne at his best
True Grit - One good line and one good scene "Fill your hand you son-of-a*****!"
The Unforgiven - Excellent
Silverado - Hokey , but fun to watch.
High Noon - Tic tock .. great flick.



You need to add Tombstone to this list. :)


Oh... and whenever it's on, I can't seem to not watch "Once Upon a Time in the West".
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: usuqa_mdiq on October 03, 2005, 10:53:40 AM
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on October 03, 2005, 01:14:59 PM
They had a double disc set on sale at the movie store this weekend, both James Garner movies......

Support your local gunfighter

Support your local Sheriff

And of course one of my favorite newer westerns, Maverick.  I loved the twist at the end, loved having Garner in the movie.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: lazs2 on October 03, 2005, 02:40:37 PM
sounds good... take usu with you and then ditch him in the parking lot or on the freeway onramp.

lazs
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: slimm50 on October 03, 2005, 04:25:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
"The Searchers" Which was probably one of the best jobs as an actor Wayne did was the only movie he tried method acting in.
Afterwards he swore he'd never do it again

guess he had problems getting out of charactor

Duke said that film bothered him more than any he'd ever done. He didn't like portraying that indian-hating character at all. Really got to him. Maybe that's why he said he'd never try mehtod acting again. Didn't like feeling not himself.
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Squire on October 03, 2005, 05:37:33 PM
Never understood the fascination with the notion that some actor had to be a hero in real life to be admired for the films they did. You couldnt pay me to watch Audie Murphy, despite the fact he is a bon afide WW2 hero, means nothing to me about the films he did...or John Wayne. I liked the work Wayne did onscreen, I could care less what he did, or didnt do, in real life.

I dont think Eastwood ever arrested anybody. I can still like Dirty Harry cant I?
Title: High Plains Drifter
Post by: Charon on October 03, 2005, 05:40:34 PM
Uncle Fester flew gliders supporting the Chindits. Learn something new every day.

Charon