Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Morpheus on October 01, 2005, 03:42:25 PM
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Anyone in the MA today and near by HT got to see the New AI fighter at work.
Just wanted to say very cool stuff Hitech. Cant wait to see 100's of them things flying around if that's what its going to be like.
The movies that can be made from 100's of fighters in the air, bombers, ect... will be amazing. :aok
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These are for TOD only, right?
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Where can we buy them? :-)
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Originally posted by Simaril
These are for TOD only, right?
Yes I beleive so. Today HT was only testing how it flys. Was very cool though. Got about 5 1v1 fights with it. It looks like it gets a little confused once you get directly on its 6. Aside from that tho you really cant tell its flying via a program or whatever.
This will not only be great for ToD but also for new players who could posibly fly off line and be able to practice against drones in different senerios.
Im sure HT has big plans for it all. But so far it looks great. It also seemed each time you faught it, it got a little better.
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did you win?
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yeah. HT did come back though from the dead once and almost twice with half 1 wing and shoot me down after I broke off thinking he was going down. I guess the AI's are not yet recognizing the damage they are taking yet. So if I didnt blow him up he'd be flying like he was perfectly fine.
Was a riot to see. The guys on range channel were going balistic when they were getting shot down by a cockpit with no wings and tail.
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I think it will be great for off line gunnery practice.
I'm excited ! :aok
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I dont know how much shooting many will be doing. Ht was on again today and I was fighting his AI, although I was not taking shots trying to prolong the fight and see how it would act in different situations. It did get alot better just since yesterday. Before I'd get to HT's AI it would be mowing down friendlies. Very impressive, and its almost hard to beleive its not a person flying on the other end. You basicly cannot tell the difference. Big props to HT for whatever he's doing, cause its working.
Whats really crazy about this AI is the fact that it fights better than probably 80-90% of what fights you will encounter in the MA on a daily basis.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Whats really crazy about this AI is the fact that it fights better than probably 80-90% of what fights you will encounter in the MA on a daily basis.
:lol :lol :lol it's funny because it's true
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We could use these for the MA too. Just pay perks and buy AI wingmen, more perks puts them in a better plane. Be like having your own pets. You could even have them follow basic general orders, like attack highlighted target, defend me, return to base etc...
Just fantasizing, forgive me.. ;)
Zazen
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IMO they have no place in the MA. Real players are what make the MA... The MA.
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LOL Zazen...an online version of the Gigapet eh? :rofl
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Yeah, only there'd be no "fly straight and act as bait" command to give the wingmen :rofl
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Oh mygod! I can hear it now....... Nice HO AI!!!!!!!!! Oh real convient warp there mr AI!!!!! Nice stick stirring AI!!!!!!!! Nice RAM AI jerk!!!!!! Dont run AI!!!!!!! Nice vulch AI!!!! Get under dar AI!!!! you in a Squad AI? AI is a cheater!!!!!!! I got you on film AI Im sending it to HT!! AI is cheating!!!! Nice kill AI i was outa ammo!!!! AI your a loser!!! AI fly a real plane will ya!!!!!! AI is a score potato!!!!! AI is a toolshed killa!!! AI this , AI that!!! lol!!!!! Ought to be great entertainment.
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any of you remeber the Instant Action Button on Air Warrior?..was sweet
I could never finsh a boming sortie over Wilhsmahven....Teh 110s and 109s would shoot the sheite out of our 17s..
dam i loved it
You could see large formation of dots gathering out ahead of you...and you knew it was trouble
i really look forward to TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDe eeeeee
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I suspect AI opponents will be part of Tour of Duty but not the main arena -- at least I hope this is the way. I'd much rather have at least one place where I know I'm guaranteed to be fighting only other humans. For ToD, though, you'd probably need some AI to fill in in case there aren't enough humans around to flesh out the mission.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
It looks like it gets a little confused once you get directly on its 6.
Heh, that coulda been me.:D
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Anyone take any films or screen shots?
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Originally posted by tactic
Oh mygod! I can hear it now....... Nice HO AI!!!!!!!!! Oh real convient warp there mr AI!!!!! Nice stick stirring AI!!!!!!!! Nice RAM AI jerk!!!!!! Dont run AI!!!!!!! Nice vulch AI!!!! Get under dar AI!!!! you in a Squad AI? AI is a cheater!!!!!!! I got you on film AI Im sending it to HT!! AI is cheating!!!! Nice kill AI i was outa ammo!!!! AI your a loser!!! AI fly a real plane will ya!!!!!! AI is a score potato!!!!! AI is a toolshed killa!!! AI this , AI that!!! lol!!!!! Ought to be great entertainment.
Wow...that is the best CHI impersonation I've seen.
ack-ack
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I'd love to see a bunch of AI la7's unleashed upon a horde of milking toolshedders. Oh man would that be a sight to see, and hear.
:D
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I'd really love to know whats going on inside the AI's plane. HT said when I was fighting it, it wasnt chopping throtle. So I could pretty easily regain position in a turn fight just by basicly hitting the breaks. But it was making flat turns like i've never seen anyone make, and at very lose speeds. APar was riding in my plane and we were both laughing because even he noticed hwo well it was just cutting around corners. lol I really hope it had its flaps down is what Im saying. Becuase if HT hasnt learned it the use of flaps, it could rip anyone a new you know what.
LOL stang I was thinking about that. Like a sick joke by Hitech to come into the MA one night and unleash Hitech, Hitech1 Hitech2,Hitech3 and so on all the way up to like Hitech200. LOL! All La7's. My god i think i'd laugh for a week.
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It looks like it gets a little confused once you get directly on its 6.
I am sure he is modeling the ACM after my fighting style.
Thanks for the info Morph. Wish I could have seen it.
LOL stang I was thinking about that. Like a sick joke by Hitech to come into the MA one night and unleash Hitech, Hitech1 Hitech2,Hitech3 and so on all the way up to like Hitech200. LOL! All La7's. My god i think i'd laugh for a week.
That would be funny. :)
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Does the AI take ho shots? :)
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Yep, it does. And you better make sure it doesnt get guns on you. Its aim is super uber. It will fill your skull with 50cals before you know it.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Yep, it does. And you better make sure it doesnt get guns on you. Its aim is super uber. It will fill your skull with 50cals before you know it.
Let's hope they plug in an error factor.... We don't need anymore airborne death lasers....
My regards,
Widewing
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I am sure Ht will write that in, something to that effect anyways.
This does give me a renewed excitment for ToD though.
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I noted that HT mentioned he could adjust the AI "expertise".
I watched it bounce an ac and despatch it with the shortest of bursts.
It was like the AI was "locked on" via the lead computing site.
Speculating
I should imagine that if the AI selected the nearest target (auto tabbed) and flew to its LCS reference
Flew via shortest vector (shortest arc) to give JS angle.
Limited JS deflection by G and "stall limit"
Rudder only to centre the ball.
We then get classic lag pursuit but with a very good (computed)angle.
AI evasives could then be the result of auto tabbing an incoming foe under some rule set. What would seem like an evasive would be AI turning to the new foe's LCS reference via shortest vector.
Expertise would be varied by
Delay time at LCS prior to firing.
Max G setting.
Max "stall limit" setting.
If it had no throttle control you would expect over shoot but good e retention......some potential lawn darting.......but I wonder how you stop it taking the HO ? or avoiding collision?
Speculation to one side......hats off to hitech....... particularly if we get one for offline practice.
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I don't have as much faith it can be done effectively... there will always be something the AI will be hopeless to defeat without becoming gamey.
Worse yet, having the AI act as individuals instead of a single program all flying the same is harder. Add that in the real players will stick out like sore thumbs, and you get the idea.
I can see the whines now... "I had that pilot since the Battle of Britian, I $()@* quit!"
I hope it all works out, but I'm really not optimistic... most of all of this community when it comes out.
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:noid
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Still don't quite like the idea of AI fighters in ToD. Takes away some of what a "multiplayer" game is IMO. We'll see how it turns out, may be great.
What worries me more though is ToD with a large number of planes up, I get very bad FPS with 30 or so planes around, maybe even with 20 planes around. My FPS drop from 75 to mid 10's.
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How did the Ai do in a multiple enemy environment? ex. a 2vs 1 AI etc..
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I'd really love to know whats going on inside the AI's plane. HT said when I was fighting it, it wasnt chopping throtle. So I could pretty easily regain position in a turn fight just by basicly hitting the breaks. But it was making flat turns like i've never seen anyone make, and at very lose speeds. APar was riding in my plane and we were both laughing because even he noticed hwo well it was just cutting around corners. lol I really hope it had its flaps down is what Im saying. ....snip
I know HiTech is adamant about FM in the plane models --- but is he allowing the AI to "cut corners" (pun intended) on physics to maintain competitiveness? It's a common enough tactic in computer game programming, since all AI is more artificial than intelligent, and it can be a completely appropriate move when balancing processor demands.
Just wonderin....
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Think I have a film of one of the early tries. THINK it is AI now after all this talk. It was really cutting corners, more sliding then actually turning.
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I have film of one too........seemed to fly within the envelope to me......just ignored hard objects like the ground and trees by flying thru them...........:p
and also ignored the lack of some essential parts like wings etc,:rolleyes:
It would be easier for HT to direct the flight models he has rather than invent new ones for AI............
If the pilot was not limited by 6G then continuous hard cornering would seem pretty unusual.
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AI planes should be a great jabo/interceptor addon to the game. Not sure about their success as dogfighers. BTW, will they be commandable? Ex.: attack the pointed by mouse target or plane, dissengange, return to formation, retreat West, Go to angels #, Look at 9oc, RTB, Cover me and so? All that kind of decissions would be hard to effectively take by "light" piece of code.
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I wonder if HTC should model "different fighting styles" AI for inddividual planes.
For example...
planes like spit (except spit 14) and A6Ms should TnB.
Spit 14, 109s, 190s, F4Us, P-51s, Ki-84, 202/205, Ki-61, P-40s, Wildcats,P-38 and other high speed fighters should BnZ
Spit 14, Ki-84, 109F/G/K and P-38J/L can stall-fight.
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LOL stang I was thinking about that. Like a sick joke by Hitech to come into the MA one night and unleash Hitech, Hitech1 Hitech2,Hitech3 and so on all the way up to like Hitech200. LOL! All La7's. My god i think i'd laugh for a week.
OH boy guess what the next evil con mission is going to be.
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In AW they did let go 100's of c47 with lazers a couple of nights. I was first to see this one night and it looked like they were going to take out everyone on the hole map. I did get 5 before i got blasted. Shawk was their that night he just ran!
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Originally posted by Tilt
I have film of one too........seemed to fly within the envelope to me......just ignored hard objects like the ground and trees by flying thru them...........:p
and also ignored the lack of some essential parts like wings etc,:rolleyes:
It would be easier for HT to direct the flight models he has rather than invent new ones for AI............
If the pilot was not limited by 6G then continuous hard cornering would seem pretty unusual.
HT said that they are uneffected by damage as of yet. I also beleive that Hitech isnt "inventing" new modles rather, a program that tells the AI what to do in any given circumstance or situation.
They do fly well, but they aren't cutting corners like wilbuz was hiting towards. Not even close. Next time you ever fight one film, all your questions can be answered via ahf.
Oh yes, you can bet your lucky stars a whole new set of whines will evolve out of the birth of AI's in AH. They're either not good enough or they are too good. Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I dont think this is going to be some invincible magical mystery fighter which destroys all it comes into contact with. But I do think that where its at now, most of you're gonna die. That's just cool in my book. :)
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Originally posted by Morpheus
snip...
I dont think this is going to be some invincible magical mystery fighter which destroys all it comes into contact with. But I do think that where its at now, most of you're gonna die. That's just cool in my book. :)
I'm not sure how it is in mine.
If the things are going to outmatch 90% of the arena, as you guys are implying they will, wont that raise the discouragement factor awfully high for TOD? I mean, its tough enough on we little guys when the vets harvest us after a 3-5 minute investment; what will it feel like when we've flown 25 minutes in escort, and get passed through an AI reaver?
Will TOD end up being a playground for the aces only, leaving the historically minded journeyman in the MA dust?
It seems to me that this one may be a tough call from a game design standpoint. Do you want TOD to be a reward arena for the accomplished, with correspondingly high difficulties; Or, do you choose to maximize appeal and end up with gripes from the old hands?
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Cutting corners or not Morph these maneuvers are more then what human pilot can do. This was a quite early version of it though.
Short Film (http://www.furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/userfiles/Wilbus/hitechtesting.ahf)
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Will hire-a-drone be next?
Just let a drone play for you and check in once a month or so to see how you are doing. :)
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If the early versions allowed the AI pilot to pull a fully controlled sustained 8g turn then it would look unreal IMO.
we already know that the AI can have its expertise adjusted............. question for TOD would be
are they all dumbed down?
or is there a randomiser selecting level of expertise?
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Maybe they get smarter as the Tour Progresses.
Or maybe their stats are tracked just as ours will be. If a n00b AI pilot does well, he gets better.
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Coming to an arena near you! Don`t miss out on the long awaited remake of this classic!
------The Return Of The Z Bros------
Watch as their long awaited return comes to life.
Thrill to their new labratory induced skills.
FEAR THEM! They WILL have their revenge from battles fought long ago in a distant land.
Rated: L for Lame