Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Krusty on October 01, 2005, 06:48:19 PM
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in AH you can drop 4x 1k bombs around a tiger tank and not do squat to it. Which is totally retarded, because even 1x 500lb bomb would leave a crater larger than the tank itself.
If we can't change the way the all-or-nothing damage works, can we add a dimension where the concussive shock of nearby bombs gives the whole crew of a GV a pilot wound? Currently I don't think GVs have PWs. You lose a crew member and when you're out of crew you are dead. If they had blackouts like wounded pilots, that would make bombing more effective.
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Apparently 1000 lb bombs were common as blades of grass
and often used tactically to kill vehicles :confused:
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Well in real life a 250lb'er would kill any tank if it landed on it. In AH it's kinda bogus that you have to carpet bomb a square mile with a formation of lancasters and 14x1000 loadouts just to kill a single tigr.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Well in real life a 250lb'er would kill any tank if it landed on it. In AH it's kinda bogus that you have to carpet bomb a square mile with a formation of lancasters and 14x1000 loadouts just to kill a single tigr.
If you hit tank with 250lb you will kill him surely. I did it myself more than once with 100kg from La5FN.
Killing tank with 1000lb'es is just plain easy.
P.S. I mean Panzers, may be Tiger is another story
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Stuka also seemed to be a tank-killer
It has only 1 bomb which could actually do the trick though....1000 or 1800kg
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ha, I can see it now. 1000lb bomb lands about 50ft from a gv, causing the gv to do a flip in the air and then lands on its tracks and whining from the bomber "WTF! THAT TANK DID A BACK FLIP AND LIVED!"
It does seem tigers are invulnerable to anything but 1000lb bombs, it is hard to get a direct hit, but 2 1000lb side by side seem to do the trick.
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Did tanks actually flip due to a near-miss explosion in real life?
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not to sure of the sorce so maby some on e can help me out on this one but i recall a tank did flip but i doent think it was a tiger. i think a sherman or something. they even got it on film but like i said im not to ure if it realy happened.
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I'm quite sure a heavy tank like the Tiger won't flip, a Sherman on the other hand...
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Originally posted by Krusty
in AH you can drop 4x 1k bombs around a tiger tank and not do squat to it.
And what kind of fighter did you have on the deck to see the tiger and that carries 4000 lbs of bombs? Or was it one of those realistic Lancaster flights on the deck after one tank.
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lye-el, I never said it was 4k dropped at once. I took 3 sorties of a heavy fighter (I think it was a p51 with 2x1k eggs) and dropped 6 bombs. This was some time ago. 2 were total misses. 4 were nearly direct hits. And that was just ME. There were 3 other planes swarming the bastage and not ONE of us could kill him.
Tanks are BS in AH. It's a fact. Totally unrealistic in every regard.
Reality? Blow a tank up/over/kill crew
AH? Tank unharmed, continues moving around your town leveling it.
Reality? Tank hits another tank, doesn't knock it out, but blows a chunk of armor off of an area, if hit in that area again, most likely will break through.
AH? If AH code says your gun cannot kill this tank, you can fire 60 rounds into the same freaking spot and by the time you're out of ammo the tank is totally undamaged.
Reality? 50cal vs tanks is useless
AH? an M8 running circles around a tiger can shoot said tigers tracks off with 50cal fire.
Like I said, tanks in AH are BS.
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I have been saying this for a while... the bomb characteristics in the game are not the best and are way off. :furious The reason I know this...I deal with bombs on daily basis. I am an AMMO troop in the USAF and to answer questions. Yes a 250lb bomb would kill a tank, the tanks would 'flip' but they would be swiss cheese and all you should need would be a 250lb bomb to kill any gv! A 1000lb bomb has 535lbs of Tritonal/Explosives in it and will cause a blast damage effective up to 192 feet (frag). It will make a crater roughly 40 feet in diameter and about 8-10 deep....they make a big hole! So, if you drop a 1k egg within 39' 11" of a Tiger and it lives....you just got screwed. Someday I am sure HTC will get to the bombs and rocket damage...not sure, I just go grab more eggs. :noid
Why have a full crew in a tank, you don't get a full crew in a bomber? If you get a wound... your wounded!!
The GV's in the game are jacked as well. You hit a guy 4 times in the turrent and nothing happens. He hits you once and your dead. Don't tell me the angles and all that crap so that much in the game!! I have adjusted my shots and it is crap. My personal favorite is having 3 or 4 guys hitting a Flak or Panzer with .50 cal and 20mm until they are out of ammo and the guy is still shooting away and ends up landing a 4 kill hop or some crap! :furious
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Once again.
In reality 50-100kg bombs virtually useless against medium and heavy tanks. It need only direct hit to take such tank out of service. Very close miss (1-2m) can only slightly damage it. Light tanks can be destroyed by 100kg bomb if it explode in about 5m from tank. Very close miss will flip light tank (real fact: russian light tank T-70 was flip by 50 or 100kg boms that exploded in 0.5m)
Generally heavy HE bomb can destroy medium or heavy tank within crater radius.
And dont say about how deadly blast wave for tank crew, please. Its just ridiculous.
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I like this...............
For sure a local bomb strike should take the pintle gun out...........particularly if it was manned at the time.
Some concussion wounding would be appropriate even if it was only a temporary black out.
and I concurr 2 x 100Kg will kill an AH Panzer/T34.
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Originally posted by Krusty
lye-el, I never said it was 4k dropped at once. I took 3 sorties of a heavy fighter (I think it was a p51 with 2x1k eggs) and dropped 6 bombs. This was some time ago. 2 were total misses. 4 were nearly direct hits. And that was just ME. There were 3 other planes swarming the bastage and not ONE of us could kill him.
I dropped on a tiger from a 190 four days ago. *BOOM*
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Originally posted by Lye-El
I dropped on a tiger from a 190 four days ago. *BOOM*
We're talking of dropping bombs, not yourself ;)
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Originally posted by Oleg
If you hit tank with 250lb you will kill him surely. I did it myself more than once with 100kg from La5FN.
Killing tank with 1000lb'es is just plain easy.
P.S. I mean Panzers, may be Tiger is another story
I hit a Tiger with a 500lb bomb once (got the hit sprite and all) and didn't kill it. Didn't even hurt it.
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Maybe it just went straight trough it ;)
But I agree, that Tiger is way too strong, and bombs should do a little more damage (maybe ALOT)
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Originally posted by frank3
I'm quite sure a heavy tank like the Tiger won't flip, a Sherman on the other hand...
There some nice information somewhere about a unit of Tigers in Normandy that got attacked by Lancasters.. most where destroyed by either direct hits or near misses, many flipping the 50ton beasts..
It certainly would be nice to have a better bomb effect on gv's, would mean less of a requirement to run up heavy bombers to hit heavy gv's
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The problem here isn't the toughness of GV's, but the readily availableness of bombs.
Anyone can take 1000lb bombs without a problem. So why should tanks who are completely vulnerable to airplanes be even more so?
Fix the bomb problem, then fix the GV problem.
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Um.. dude, wtf? Are you even reading the thread?
Bombs, even 99% near hits, DON'T DO SQUAT. The REASON we're using 1k bombs so freakin' much is because the GV damage is porked! Nothing else will kill them, not even dead-on hits!
FIX THAT, and you won't see so many 1k bombs, I tellyawhut.
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Originally posted by Oleg
And dont say about how deadly blast wave for tank crew, please. Its just ridiculous.
If footage from 15K+ shows VISIBLE concussive balloons from each bomb drop, for even SMALL bombs, for 500lbs and less, from tens of THOUSANDS of feet up you can see the initial blast, then you tell me what a 1000lb bomb is going to do if you're outside of crater range but inside the "blast zone". You're dead. Period. If you think otherwise, you watch too many '60s movies, with their "clean" wars.
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Originally posted by Krusty
you can see the initial blast, then you tell me what a 1000lb bomb is going to do if you're outside of crater range but inside the "blast zone". You're dead. Period.
This is just your opinion. Facts said others. Blast can not hurt armor unless it very close. Blast wave can not pass through armor unless hatchs open.
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If footage from 15K+ shows VISIBLE concussive balloons from each bomb drop, for even SMALL bombs, for 500lbs and less, from tens of THOUSANDS of feet up you can see the initial blast, then you tell me what a 1000lb bomb is going to do if you're outside of crater range but inside the "blast zone". You're dead. Period. If you think otherwise, you watch too many '60s movies, with their "clean" wars.
Quonset hut fighter hangers should also be vunerable to blast effect from quite a distance out, no need to actually hit the hangers. After all, they are less sturdy than a tank especially a Tiger. My Jabo score would go up as I generally do the near miss thing. Perk the 1000lb'er. The bomber guys keep posting they need something to spend their bomber perks on. :D
The shock wave does not equal "blast zone". The shock wave travels much farther than the effects of the blast.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Quonset hut fighter hangers should also be vunerable to blast effect from quite a distance out, no need to actually hit the hangers. After all, they are less sturdy than a tank especially a Tiger. My Jabo score would go up as I generally do the near miss thing. Perk the 1000lb'er. The bomber guys keep posting they need something to spend their bomber perks on. :D
The shock wave does not equal "blast zone". The shock wave travels much farther than the effects of the blast.
If you drop 3000 lbs inbetween the 2 fighter hangers on a medium field you kill both. So the blast might have a concution factor. Just a thought.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Lye-El
The shock wave does not equal "blast zone". The shock wave travels much farther than the effects of the blast.
"Blast zone" is a fiction. There is no such thing for conventional HE bomb.
Explosion occurs in very small space, mostly within bomb itself (if we dont talk about fuel-air explosives). Damage factors of any explosion are light, high temperature, blast overpressure (blast wave) and fragments (if exist). Blast wave (in combination with high temperature) kills peoples who are too close to explosion, not mystical "blast zone". Blast wave can complitely destroy tank if it very close. But it decrease quickly with range and cannt pass through armor leave it undamaged but crew killed.
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Do you even know what a shock wave would do to a building? It is an impact that is not 'really' there. It still does damage...in a sense. Just using 100' of Det. Cord you still feel the shock wave on your chest when your standing 200' away. So, what do you think 500+ pounds of explosive would feel like if it fell 10' short of your GV.... trust me, it would still rattle your head inside, even if the hatch was not open.
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Originally posted by ChristCAF
Do you even know what a shock wave would do to a building?
Tanks much smaller and much stronger than buildings.
Originally posted by ChristCAF
So, what do you think 500+ pounds of explosive would feel like if it fell 10' short of your GV.... trust me, it would still rattle your head inside, even if the hatch was not open.
Trust you? I dont see reasons to trust you. I prefer trust to analysis report about effectiveness of aviation against tanks.