Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Kev367th on October 02, 2005, 09:58:41 AM
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Just browsing around came across a few sites, wondering how accurate -
Feb 44 - Last Hurricane delivered - a Mk IIc to 309 Sqn.
Mar 44 - 1st deck landing Seafire XV (Griffon Engine)
Mar 44 - 1st flight production Spitfire F.21 - handling not acceptable.
April 44 - Last Sea Hurricanes leave carriers.
April 44 - Spit IX dived to Mach 0.89
June 44 - Some Mk XIV modded to 150 fuel for V1 intercepts.
July 44 - 616 Sqn recieves Meteors
Aug 44 - 1st kill V1 by a Meteor
Sep 44 - 1st flight Seafire F.46
Sep 44 - Spit XII retired
Sep 44 - Modded Spit Mk IX crosses Atlantic via Iceland
Oct 44 - Mod of standard F.21 into a Seafire F.45 starts
Oct 44 - 1st jet fighter shot down - by a Spit XIV
Nov 44 - 1st FR XIV enters service
Nov 44 - 1st Seafire F.45 delivered (navalised Spit F.21 - 50 built)
Jan 45 - Delivery Spit F.21 to 19 Sqn
Mar 45 - 1st deliverys of Spit F.22
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July 44 - 616 Sqn recieves Meteors
Well at least according to what you posted it seems a bit simplified
616 Sqn received just 2 Meteors Is on 12 July '44.
Meteors Is did fly sorties against V-1s shooting a couple down on 4 Aug '44 in what would be considered 'operational evaluation'. Meteors Is were never in 'full production' and never were 'fully deployed' into squadron service. IIRC the 1s intercepted and destroyed 13-16 V-1s.
The Meteor III was the only Meteor to enter 'full production' and to be fully deployed in Dec '44 (616 Sqn).
After receiving Meteor IIIs in Jan '45 one flight from 616 Sdn was set up to defend against 262s for the 2nd TAF but saw no combat.
Later in April '45 616 Sqn flew a few ground attack sorties but thats about the extent of the 'Meteor in Combat'. I wouldn't mind flying one in game, however, I can think of one-hundred other aircraft I would like to see first.
The above is just one example, I am not going to go through each one but you get the idea. Accuracy is in the eye on the beholder., IMHO its accurate only to a degree. Again only going by what you posted. It would have been more useful to provide a link.
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CC
Wasn't asking for a Meteor in the game was just a rough 'timeline' (for want of a better word), for some late war RAF landmarks.
Thats why I included stuff like the Spit IX flying the Atlantic, Hurricanes being withdrawn etc.
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Originally posted by Bruno
Well at least according to what you posted it seems a bit simplified
616 Sqn received just 2 Meteors Is on 12 July '44.
Meteors Is did fly sorties against V-1s shooting a couple down on 4 Aug '44 in what would be considered 'operational evaluation'. Meteors Is were never in 'full production' and never were 'fully deployed' into squadron service. IIRC the 1s intercepted and destroyed 13-16 V-1s.
The Meteor III was the only Meteor to enter 'full production' and to be fully deployed in Dec '44 (616 Sqn).
After receiving Meteor IIIs in Jan '45 one flight from 616 Sdn was set up to defend against 262s for the 2nd TAF but saw no combat.
Later in April '45 616 Sqn flew a few ground attack sorties but thats about the extent of the 'Meteor in Combat'. I wouldn't mind flying one in game, however, I can think of one-hundred other aircraft I would like to see first.
The above is just one example, I am not going to go through each one but you get the idea. Accuracy is in the eye on the beholder., IMHO its accurate only to a degree. Again only going by what you posted. It would have been more useful to provide a link.
Good grief Bruno. It was just some trivia. It amazes me how fast any of the Luftwaffe contingent jumps on anything like this.
Relax. The war's been over for a long long time.
I realize the LW won the war and that the 109/ 190 or your LW plane of choice was the greatest plane ever.
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Good grief Guppy. It was just some details. It amazes me how fast any of the Allied contingent jumps on anything like this.
Relax. The war's been over for a long long time.
I realize the Allies won the war and that the Spit/P-51 or your Allied plane of choice was the greatest plane ever.
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Originally posted by OttoJ
I realize the Allies won the war and that the Spit/P-51 or your Allied plane of choice was the greatest plane ever.
Yey you finnaly got it in your inpenetrable brain of yours...
I swear the nazis here are taking every topic/conversation to the next level.
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Rule #5
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hehe im in..
actually first v1 kill by a meteor was not by gun fire.. the pilot had to tip the bomb with wing tip...
and yes the spit and p51 was better than any luft plane....
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Originally posted by tikky
I swear the nazis here are taking every topic/conversation to the next level.
That is not appropriate. Do not ad homme people with that epithet. Nobody here has ever, that I have seen, actually expressed admiration for the Nazis or their political ideals. Liking German war machines in no way makes one a Nazi.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Oct 44 - 1st jet fighter shot down - by a Spit XIV
I can't believe that. They must have had losses earlier. Especially against bombers. Plus most of the anecdotal tales about shooting down 262s come from USAAC p51s and the like.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Good grief Bruno. It was just some trivia. It amazes me how fast any of the Luftwaffe contingent jumps on anything like this.
Relax. The war's been over for a long long time.
I realize the LW won the war and that the 109/ 190 or your LW plane of choice was the greatest plane ever.
Guppy I think ya might be overreacting on this one. In other posts Bruno has shown a like for LW planes, but this post has nothing to do with that. He even posted the correct trivia, and kev agreed but pointed out he was simplifying things. To say "the LW contingent [edit: whatever the hell that means] is jumping on this thread" makes no sense, as we are talking about RAF accomplishments and bruno has not made any posts contrary to such.
Just sayin'...
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Originally posted by Krusty
I can't believe that. They must have had losses earlier. Especially against bombers. Plus most of the anecdotal tales about shooting down 262s come from USAAC p51s and the like.
It was an RAF timeline.
First 262 ever shot down possibly Aug 28 1944 by a pair of P-47's, whereas first documented combat was versus a Mossie that escaped (July 25 1944)
Funnily enough also seen claims that 262s on a single engine could barely stay in the air, unlike AH2. Also if lost below 290kph (180mph) would inevitably end in a crash.
Is ours too forgiving? Flow single engine a few times with no problems.
Only ref to losses I found was-
1430 produced.
220 went operational.
120 shot down (assume most takeoff/landing/on ground).
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Originally posted by Kev367th
It was an RAF timeline.
aahhh, stupid me :)
Interesting stuff. I think AH is far too forgiving in many areas, drag included.
A 262 one one engine in AH.. hrm.. I've been able to fly on it, but I've never survived a landing in one. It's uncontrolable at low speeds (best you can hope for is a controlled ditch, wheels up or down, forget about lining up on the runway).
I can believe it. The engines were less powerful than the prototype and trial models. They needed both just to fly. Had they been equipped with the harder to produce but more powerful engines (can't remember the name) they might have had better acceleration and better single engine handling.
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Kev, you need to do an edit. The 262 was shot down by Kurfy's dog of a Spitfire, the Mk IXs :eek: of RCAF 401. This was the 262, WNr 170093, flown by Hptm H-C Buttman, KIA, in the Nijmegen area.
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There we go, Guppy, Milo and Kev frothing in the mouth about the Luftwaffe, as usual. Sad, really if one hates the other guys plane than likes his own. Appearantly their hate for it is stronger than their love, for they turn every single thread this way.
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Now now, don't add any fuel to the fire. You are just as bad at times. Let's just let it be. This was an interesting thread. Let's keep it so. :aok
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Krusty,
I have landed a 262 in AH on one engine at least once. I remember it well because the engine was taken out by a D3A1 of all things.
EDIT: This happened in AH1. I don't know if AH2 changed things.
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Most of my 262 memories are relatively recent... I never bothered with it much in AH1.
P.S. Fear the Val!
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Kurfy, did you forget to take that medication your shrink prescribed for your emotional imbalance.
Just for the record, my brother is a Spit fanatic and I am ALWAYS putting it down. The best German a/c (prop) were produced by Focke-Wulf.:)
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Maybe its time that we stopped with the endless bait and trolls. You cant even get 3 replies anymore without it turning to crap:
On the subject of the Me262 kill, my info is the 1st Jet claimed by RAF 2nd TAF was a 401 RCAF Spit IX, yes.
Be carefull with "1st"s everybody claims them :), and are usually worded fairly narrowly. I have no idea whether thats an RAF 1st or not...
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Originally posted by tikky
Yey you finnaly got it in your inpenetrable brain of yours...
I swear the nazis here are taking every topic/conversation to the next level.
Seems like only trikky gets away with calling people nazis. What are you, skuzzy's butt monkey?
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Originally posted by Kurfürst
There we go, Guppy, Milo and Kev frothing in the mouth about the Luftwaffe, as usual. Sad, really if one hates the other guys plane than likes his own. Appearantly their hate for it is stronger than their love, for they turn every single thread this way.
Frothing?
Lol I put forward a little trivia, nothing else, no frothing.
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Originally posted by Squire
Be carefull with "1st"s everybody claims them :), and are usually worded fairly narrowly. I have no idea whether thats an RAF 1st or not...
Yeah. I shot down the first 262 in 1836. :D
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Good grief Bruno. It was just some trivia. It amazes me how fast any of the Luftwaffe contingent jumps on anything like this.
Relax. The war's been over for a long long time.
I realize the LW won the war and that the 109/ 190 or your LW plane of choice was the greatest plane ever.
I don't know what your problem is, and I don't care. However, he asked if what he posted was 'accurate'. I thought he might really mean what he asked and I gave an 'accurate answer'.
I did this to show him that things aren't as simple as a yes / no answer with most of the points listed. I said as much in my previous reply.
I didn't 'jump' on anything. I never mentioned the Luftwaffe, or 109s, or 190s.
I am not a member of any 'contingent', my words are my own. I certainly don't need to relax any more then I am now.
I suggest you take your own advice.
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I don't have a problem with Brunos 1st reply to my original post, or Krustys first post.
Although Kurfy seems down to his low standard as usual.
Bruno added a bit of flesh to the
July 44 - 616 Sqn recieves Meteors
Aug 44 - 1st kill V1 by a Meteor
At the time I originally posted I didn't want to have to post a 4 page thesis on each particular entry, was just a rough guide.
Altohugh now its been brought up -
1st kill of a 262 (air-air) would be interesting to find out.
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And it would be interesting to see if it was due to ground attack, due to bomber gunnery, or due to other fighters..
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Originally posted by Krusty
A 262 one one engine in AH.. hrm.. I've been able to fly on it, but I've never survived a landing in one. It's uncontrolable at low speeds (best you can hope for is a controlled ditch, wheels up or down, forget about lining up on the runway).
Asymmetric thrust in the AH2 Me 262 is tough at low speeds. Don't even bother trying to get it slowed down without first shutting down the remaining engine. It's easier to deadstick land than fight the handling.
My regards,
Widewing
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1836?
No F%$#@##% Way!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Widewing
It's easier to deadstick land than fight the handling.
SON OF A.......
Wish I'd thought of that lmao!!
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Originally posted by Squire
On the subject of the Me262 kill, my info is the 1st Jet claimed by RAF 2nd TAF was a 401 RCAF Spit IX, yes.
That is what I already posted, with the WNr of the 262 and its pilot.
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Dug up my book, I found that it said "1st Spitfire kill of Me 262"...but thats likely the same thing. I dont think the RAF claimed a 262 prior to that date with another type.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I don't know what your problem is, and I don't care. However, he asked if what he posted was 'accurate'. I thought he might really mean what he asked and I gave an 'accurate answer'.
I did this to show him that things aren't as simple as a yes / no answer with most of the points listed. I said as much in my previous reply.
I didn't 'jump' on anything. I never mentioned the Luftwaffe, or 109s, or 190s.
I am not a member of any 'contingent', my words are my own. I certainly don't need to relax any more then I am now.
I suggest you take your own advice.
Fair enough Bruno. It's fair to say I jumped the gun. My apologies for jumping on your post. I've been a bit short on the temper lately for reasons nothing to do with AH and it wasn't fair to jump you. It was wrong of me to do it.
As for the Meteor. I was lucky enough to get to know a former B of B vet pilot who was with 616 when they transitioned to Meteors in the summer of 44. He also had a chance to fly a 262 when he ferried one from Fassberg to Lubeck at the end of the war, so his comparisons to the Meteor were interesting to read.
"Dixie" Deans was the 616 pilot who tipped the V-1 with the wing tip of his Meteor sometime in July of 44. Don't have the date in front of me.
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My apologies for jumping on your post. I've been a bit short on the temper lately for reasons nothing to do with AH and it wasn't fair to jump you. It was wrong of me to do it.
NP, I hope all is well or getting better for you...
616 when they transitioned to Meteors in the summer of 44. He also had a chance to fly a 262 when he ferried one from Fassberg to Lubeck at the end of the war, so his comparisons to the Meteor were interesting to read.
If you ever get the time I would be interested in hearing what he had to say. I am sure a lot of these other guys would be interested as well.
Regards...
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One 262 was shot down near Brussels on 28 August 1944 by a pair of USAAF P-47 Thunderbolts.
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A p51C of 65. sqn RAF shot down a 262 air-to air either in 1944 late or 1945. Does any of you guys have info on that?
The 262 tried to dogfight the P51 and the results were a quick death.
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First claim of an Me262 by USAAF fighters was by P47s of the 78th Fighter Group on August 29, 1944 when Major Joe Myers and Lt. Manford Croy shared in the destruction of a 262.
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Originally posted by OttoJespersen
One 262 was shot down near Brussels on 28 August 1944 by a pair of USAAF P-47 Thunderbolts.
78th FG records show that Maj. Joseph Myers and Capt. Manford O. Croy shared a kill of a 262 on August 28, 1944.
Carter & Mueller documents the first victory over a 262 as being credited to Lt. Valmore J. Beaudreault of the 365th Fighter Group flying a P-47D-27 on October 2, 1944 just west of Munster. Oddly enough, this was a case of two P-47s evading repeated attacks by a 262 and then pursuing it until its engines quit. Before either P-47 was close enough to shoot, the 262 crash-landed of its own volition. Beaudreault, being the closest of the pursuers, received the victory credit.
Here's where history gets very strange. BOTH 262s were piloted by the same Luftwaffe pilot!!!
From the 78th FG website:
"The German pilot of the Me262 downed on 28 August, 1944, and the pilot of the Me262 downed on 2 October, 1944( credited to P-47 pilots of the 365th Fighter Group(9th Air Force) near Munster ) was the same pilot, Ofw Rony Lauer. I have been corresponding with him since 1996.
He had just completed his sixth bombing mission in a Me262 on 28 August, 1944; returned to his base at Juvincourt, France, when he was ordered to fly to another base at Chieves, Belgium( Patton's Third Army was advancing in the area ). After becoming airborne, his main landing gear failed to retract fully( he used the compressed air supply for the previous landing). This drastically affected his cruising speed and potential top speed. P-47s from the 78th intercepted him at 500 feet and since he was unable to outrun or outmaneuver them, he chose to crash land near the village of Haaltert, about 10 miles northwest of Brussels. Major Joe Myers hit the Me262 as it touched down and it began burning immediately. Lauer jumped out of the cockpit as it slid to a stop and ran away from the burning aircraft. Lt. M. Croy fired at him as he ran across the field and Lauer dropped to the ground. A German salvage platoon picked him up with his aircraft that night, then drove him to his new base at Volkel, Holland the next day. He survived without injury
On October 2, 1944, he intercepted two P-47s of the 365th Fighter Group( 9th Air Force ) at 9,000 feet and played a "game of tag" with superior speed down to 500 feet, when one engine began trailing white smoke. Then both engines quit. Once again, he had to make a crash landing, this time without power. He was severely injured in the crash and spent two months in the hospital and rehabilitation. The P-47s of the 365th never fired a shot, but were credited with the victory.
Lauer later returned to his unit, KG51, and flew until the end of the war. His letters express little affection for the Me262, which was questionable for it's combat role. As a multi-engine pilot, he greatly admired the Ju88., which he had flown in the Mediterranean theater 1942-1943. It was fast, maneuverable, reliable and could be used in a variety of roles. He also regretted to have to give up his Ju88 crew( 3 men) when he was transferred to flying Me262s on July 21, 1944. The Me262 was noted for a variety of problem: high fuel consumption, inability to accelerate suddenly on takeoff or landing, engine flame outs, turbine blade failures and landing gear failures on grass fields.
Lauer's military history was typical of other German pilots. He was called to service in 1938, after basic training, received training as an engine mechanic and assigned. In the summer of 1939 he was approved for pilot training and completed flight school in 1940. He then trained in instrument and night flying plus operational training in the He111, Ju52 and Do17. As a pilot he flew radio operator trainees for almost one year. In 1941, he was assigned to Konigsberg on the Baltic to fly Ju86 transports to and from the Russian front. In the winter of 1942, he transferred to Ju88 bombers, flying out of Italy against Mdeitterranean shipping, the Allied invasion and occasionally to England in 1943. He was transferred to the Me262 program in the Spring of 1944 and flew out of various bases in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany.
Upon returning to civilian life, he had difficulty in finding work. Discrimination against former military personnel was common after the war in Germany. He finally found employment with the National Railway and became an engine operator throughout central and northern Germany for many years. He is now retired and lives in Kirchain, approximately 40 miles north of Frankfurt. "
In his book, " Eagles of Duxford "(5), Garry L. Fry writes of the August 28, 1944 encounter :
"Working their way north around the fringes of Brussels, Major Joseph Myers, 82nd " Surtax" Blue Leader, was providing top cover for the Group. At 1915 hours near Tormonde, Belgium flying at 11,000 feet, he saw what he thought was a B-26 going South very fast and very low. Joe dove at 45 degrees registering 450 mph and got right above the bogie at 5,000 feet noting that it was painted slate blue with no markings. The bogie began doing wide ninety degree evasive turns as Myers cut him off from above, right astern, in his 450 mph dive to 2,000 feet. Closing to within 800 yards, it became apparent the stranger was not a B-26. Myers recalled a similarity between the aircraft and Me262 recognition plates.
As he prepared to fire from 500 yards astern, the jet slowed and crash landed in a plowed field. Myers started shooting as it touched the ground and continued pumping strikes into it down to 100 yards getting hits in the cockpit and both engines. The German jet skidded over the field, stopped and caught fire. The pilot, Oberfeldwebel Hieronymous Lauer of the unit Kommando Schenk, jumped out and ran as the rest of "Surtax" Blue Flight came in strafing. In his strafing run, Lieutenant Manford Croy, hit the pilot as he ran away from the jet. The Messerschmitt had been transferring from Juvincourt, near Reims, France to a base at Chievres, Belgium when the encounter took place. "
So, no matter which is correct, the USAAF records or the 78th's records, poor old hard-luck Lauer certainly flew the first Luftwaffe 262 credited to USAAF fighters.
Sometimes truth is, indeed, stranger than fiction.
My regards,
Widewing
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Oberfeldwebel Hiëronymus 'Rony' Lauer had an interesting career in the LW.
He joined KG 30 in '42, flying Ju-88s. In June '44 he transferred to 1./KG51 for training on the 262.
On 28 Aug '44 he was flying 262 A-2 9K+GL with I./KG(J)51 on a bombing mission as Widewing states above.
Nicolas Trudgian has done a print of the 7 Mar '44 raid on the Remagen bridge (Clash over Remagen). Tempests of 274 Sqn made a head-on run at the 262s and helped break up the attack. I don't believe any kills were claimed on either side on this date.
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Some Arado's were launched at the Remagen bridge as well. I think they were engaged by Tempests, but not sure how it went.
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Originally posted by Bruno
Oberfeldwebel Hiëronymus 'Rony' Lauer had an interesting career in the LW.
He joined KG 30 in '42, flying Ju-88s. In June '44 he transferred to 1./KG51 for training on the 262.
On 28 Aug '44 he was flying 262 A-2 9K+GL with I./KG(J)51 on a bombing mission as Widewing states above.
Nicolas Trudgian has done a print of the 7 Mar '44 raid on the Remagen bridge (Clash over Remagen). Tempests of 274 Sqn made a head-on run at the 262s and helped break up the attack. I don't believe any kills were claimed on either side on this date.
My father crossed at Remagen on March 14, his unit in support of the 311th Infantry Regiment of the 78th INF Div. Stuck at mid-span on the south pontoon bridge in traffic, he saw his first jet. In his words:
"We were bumper to bumper, with our truck towing a 105 (howitzer). All of a sudden, every gun along the river to our left (north) opens up and I see a plane coming down the river real fast. Tracers were coming from everywhere at once. I was already up in the gun ring (his truck was fitted with an M2HB MG) and began shooting at it too. It was moving faster than anything I had ever seen before. Then, it pulled up bit and dropped two bombs. I watch them pass right over our truck and explode in the river. Two huge splashes of water soaked us with ice cold water (their truck had a canvas roof that was open). I could hear the roar of the engines as the jet raced away, right down on the river. I kept firing at it until it was far out of range. That was the first jet I ever saw. The plane made a left turn and I saw several other planes chasing it. The driver, Sgt. Bob Wilde, emptied his carbine at it, which had us all in a fit of hysterics. It was nervous laughing though, because we all had the crap scared out of us."
This, I believe was an attack by a Ar 234 of KG76.
(Edit: I found this....)
On March 14, the weather cleared up and an afternoon mission was launched. 11 Ar-234-Bs from 6./KG 76 attacked the newly constructed pontoon bridge south of the Ludendorf bridge. Swarms of American P-51s & P-47s pounced on the jets. Four were shot down.
(http://www.starduststudios.com/Perfidia.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Wow, cool!!!
I presume it was a 262 Jabo or was it an Arado?
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Originally posted by Angus
Wow, cool!!!
I presume it was a 262 Jabo or was it an Arado?
It was an Arado. I checked the 78th's records and Dad's unit crossed on the 14th, having been held in reserve with the 311th INF. I thought he crossed on the 8th, but checking revealed that my memory was faulty. His brother Bill crossed on the 8th (he was in the 310th). Bill had just returned to his company after being hospitalized from action in the Hurtgen. My father was in an artillery unit (307th FA).
I edited my original post accordingly.
My regards,
Widewing
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Cool story Widewing. Thanks for sharing!
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According to Smith and Creek:
March 14 attack on the bridge
Ofw. Johne shot down by a Spitfire and killed north of Limburg.
Ofw. Baumler and Fw Schulte attacked by Lightnings and bailed out.
Hptm. Morich's a/c damaged by flak and attacked by Tempests.
Hptm. Hirschberger shot down and killed by Mustangs.
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Hi,
just as info, the Me262 of course was able to fly and to land with one engine!
The Me262´s speed did decrease to roundabout 500km/h, therfor it was pretty dangerus to fly with one engine cause it wasnt able to get away from the enemys.
How difficult the landing and slowspeed manouvering in general was did depend to the fuelload, 1800kg fuel make a huge different!
Here you can read about the flyingcharacter of the Me262A.
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Flying_the_Me-262.html
Greetings, Knegel
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FYI: The following was posted on TOCH:
Meteor Mk.I and V-1 kills (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2630)
by poster: bearoutwest
Here's a brief list of the Meteor combat claims (V-1s and aircraft) that I've managed to track down so far.
#1 4 Aug 44 F/O Dixie Dean EE216
V-1 destroyed by tipping (after gun jam). Sighted at 1616 hours, over Tonbridge.
#2 4 Aug 44 F/O J.K. Rodger
V-1 destroyed by 20mm cannon over Tenterden, 25 minutes after Dean’s encounter.
#3 7 Aug 44 F/O Dixie Dean
V-1 destroyed by 20mm cannon, near Robertsbridge.
#4 10 Aug 44 F/O Dixie Dean
V-1 destroyed by 20mm cannon, near Ashford.
#5 16 Aug 44 F/O W. McKenzie RCAF
V-1 by tipping, near Maidstone.
#6 16 Aug 44 F/O M. Mullenders(Belgian)
V-1 by 20mm cannon, near Ashford.
** 16 Aug 44 W/C. A. McDowall
2 V-1s attacked. Each time broke off due to proximity of balloon barrage.
#7 17 Aug 44 F/O Ritch V-1.
#8 17 Aug 44 W/O Woodacre V-1.
#9 17 Aug 44 F/Sgt Assy V-1.
#10 19 Aug 44 F/O Hobson 1/2 V-1
Shared with another Tempest squadron.
#11 19 Aug 44 F/Sgt Watts V-1.
#12 28 Aug 44 F/O Hobson, F/Sgt Epps V-1 shared.
#13 29 Aug 44 F/O Miller V-1.
(and last by the squadron).
4 Feb 45
3 Meteor IIIs and a Meteor I stationed at airfield B-58 in Belgium (Brussels-Melsbroek).
All white paint scheme used.
W/C A McDowall – YP-P EE225 – Mk I
S/L D.A. Barry – YP-Q EE239 – Mk III
F/L M.M. Mullenders – YP-R EE240 – Mk III
F/O J.K. Rodgers – YP-S EE241 – Mk III
3 May 45
W/C W.E. Schrader (NZ), F/L A.G.P. Jennings
Flying from B-156 airfield, Luneberg, these two attack Schonberg airfield. Claimed destroyed on the ground are:
2x Ju 87, 2x He 111, 1x Bf 109, 1x Fi 156.
(Jennings claimed the Fi 156, encountered in the air but landed and was destroyed on the ground.)
The primary source of information is from an article by Chris Shores in Air Combat magazine – Jan 1976 (Vol 4, No.1) - ”The Allies’ First Jet Fighter”.
I've only been able to locate the reference to EE216 as F/O Dixie Dean's first wing tipping claim.
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Originally posted by Krusty
aahhh, stupid me :)
Interesting stuff. I think AH is far too forgiving in many areas, drag included.
A 262 one one engine in AH.. hrm.. I've been able to fly on it, but I've never survived a landing in one. It's uncontrolable at low speeds (best you can hope for is a controlled ditch, wheels up or down, forget about lining up on the runway).
I can believe it. The engines were less powerful than the prototype and trial models. They needed both just to fly. Had they been equipped with the harder to produce but more powerful engines (can't remember the name) they might have had better acceleration and better single engine handling.
There have been a couple replies to this...however I made an AH film for this subject.
262 Single Engine training/demo film (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/621_1128871343_262setraining.ahf)
There is also this film that might be good to watch prior to the single engine film.
How to land the turbojet lawn dart (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/621_1128788820_262training.ahf)
Good luck
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Very nice input Bruno.
BTW were those engagements on the channel front or on the North sea front. I have some interesting data on V-1 launches from He-111's over the North sea, - will type it in tomorrow.
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Thanks for the flim Golfer, the Phil Boyers of AH