Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on October 03, 2005, 04:56:21 PM
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Howdy!
As you all may know, I'm no fan of the Clintons. But I have encountered an almost feverish hatred on this board specifically for Hillary Clinton, and the supporting data for WHY people hate her so much seems to be missing.
As a result, I'm requesting a list of grievances with supporting data. In the absence of this, I will assume that it's a basic disregard for women in power, and I hope terribly that there's more to it than that.
Keep it civil, and keep to the facts please.
Thanks!
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Chair
I don't have a good answer. For me she just seems like a sleeze.
I have asked why people like her before, from those who do and none have a good answer either.
On a side not have you seen Bill recently? He looks like death warmed over. That TV add with Bush 1 and him in it, he looks worse the Bush!
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Chair
I don't have a good answer. For me she just seems like a sleeze.
I have asked why people like her before, from those who do and none have a good answer either.
On a side not have you seen Bill recently? He looks like death warmed over. That TV add with Bush 1 and him in it, he looks worse the Bush!
She's a Marxist bent on changing our Country to a Socialist State....completely different view of what America should be compared to our founding fathers....do some reading...preferrably not on the internet.
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Rude,
Any book sugestions?
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I have no problem with a female president of the US. But that is always what is said, oh oh you dont like her because she is a woman.
No I dont like her because she is slimy, stayed with Billy cause it was a sure path to power. But mainly I dont like her because she is a red flaming socialist. Hell have her go run Canada or something
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Keep it civil, and keep to the facts please.
You're dreaming.
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My Ex likes her.
That's good enuff for a no vote from me.
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So far we've got:
*She seems like a sleaze/slimy person.
*She's a marxist
*My ex likes her.
Of the three above, #2 sounds like the most verifiable. Is the main evidence for that her work on national health care?
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socialist: remember her disastrous health care plan?
her eye-rolling during televised speeches doesn't seem at all Presidential.
my impression is that she lusts for power and will do, or say, whatever it takes...
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Do you have a basis for the 'she lusts for power' impression? What specific action do you attribute to this impression?
I'm not a Clinton apologist, I just want to certified-witness this a little to get some facts out there to back up some POV.
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Personally,
I don't like her because she is not a "what you see is what you get" type person. Her convictions seem to be based off of opinion polls and not personal beleifs. Lately she seems to be centering herself in order to seem like a more "electable" canidate in 2008. Electabitlity is important but it isn't the ONLY thing I look at.
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She is a leftist trying to redefine herself as a moderate. She will do/say whatever she needs to get elected while running as a "moderate" but I believe that once in power she'll revert to her true core beliefes.
Throughout her life, she’s been consistently anti-military, although she has tempered that in her Senatorial voting.
She's for a nationalized health care system and her attempt a building that concensus was pretty abhorrent. There is a need for some sort of "saftey net" health care but I don't think her ideas are what I want to see. She's a "nanny government is always right" type and I've had far too much of that already.
She's certainly not a 2nd Amendment supporter and that's a litmus test with me. In general, I find that those that support the 2nd share other mutually important values/freedoms/concepts. Those that don't are clearly dangerous in my mind. For example, I can't support Giuliani because he's "wrong" on the 2nd from my perspective. Hillary would be way worse.
She's opposed to changing Social Security so that some of the money is put in the name of the SS taxpayer. I think that's long overdue.
She's against school vouchers... I favor some choice in that area.
She never met a tax cut she liked and conversely she never met a tax increase she didn't like.
I am absolutely certain I'd vehemently oppose her choices for Supreme Court justice and I think the next prez will pick one at a minimum.
There's a few for you.
That said, I think she has a fine chance of winning if her camoflage doesn't slip.
Think of it as 8 more years of Bill only much more liberal.
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"But mainly I dont like her because she is a red flaming socialist. Hell have her go run Canada or something"
Some reason that we would want her any more than you?
Throw the big words around (Socialist), you just dont know what they mean, but it "sounds" insulting, which I guess is easier than having an original thought.
By the way, you let me know when G. W. Bush cuts any of the following, this is just a partial list of what you have in the USA, we wont even get into what your combined local, state, and federal taxes ammount to:
Social Security (OASDI)
Unemployment Insurance
Workers' Compensation
Temporary Disability Insurance
Health Insurance and Health Services
Medicare
Medicaid
Programs for Specific Groups
Veterans' Benefits
Government Employee Retirement Systems
Railroad Retirement
Assistance Programs
Supplemental Security Income
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
Food and Nutrition Assistance
Food Stamp Program
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
National School Lunch Program
School Breakfast Program
Housing Assistance
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance
General Assistance
Earned Income Tax Credit
Regards.
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Here yah go Chairboy. I now have a better reason to not elect her. She's anti-2nd and she lies.
In April of 1999, Bill and Hillary Clinton held a press conference on gun control legislation. Hillary Clinton stated:
"And since the crime bill was enacted, 19 of the deadliest assault weapons are harder to find on our streets. We will never know how many tragedies we've avoided because of these efforts."
Assault weapons were involved in less than 1% of homicides before the assault weapons ban took effect in 1994. The same is true as of 1998.
Source:
Just Facts (http://www.justfacts.com/index.html)
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Originally posted by Squire
"But mainly I dont like her because she is a red flaming socialist. Hell have her go run Canada or something"
Some reason that we would want her any more than you?
Food and Nutrition Assistance
Food Stamp Program
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
National School Lunch Program
School Breakfast Program
Housing Assistance
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance
General Assistance
Earned Income Tax Credit
Regards.
if they got rid of all that tomarrow i would not mind. Not like these have already established programs, cant blame Boosh for em.
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I don't much like her politics. She'd probably be a better leader than her husband, but in the wrong direction.
You never know though. Billy wasn't all that liberal when push came to shove (something that slipped by most of his supporters and opponents alike), and his get tough on crime/war on drugs presidency saw a deterioration of rights as bad as anything Bush/Ashcroft did -- so far.
2nd amendment is clear.
Charon
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Just curious...what is the basis for saying she is a "red" socialist? Specifics please...
Note: at this time I really don't have an opinion of her one way or another, but I don't think she is electable.
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What has she accomplished in life other than riding on her husbands coat tails? I seriously cannot figure out why so many say she is the most inteligent woman ever. She's really done nothing her whole life, yet she attracts a huge following.
Instead of asking why people don't like her , maybe ask why people do and for what reasons.
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There are several books out about her, and none of them complimentary at least that I am familiar with, and another one coming out that exposes more of the true Hillary.
My opinion, she is a scheming opportunist who sways with the political wind, not really having or displaying any real convictions, just saying what she thinks a crowd wants to hear. I suspects she treats her "underlings" like so much dirt, while smiling on the camera.
Travelgate was an early illustration of her method of treating people.
dago
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Lots of opinion, not a lot of facts. It was a valiant effort though Chair.
I'm curious though. National health care has been an objective of every President since at least Nixon. In fact Nioxon wanted to make it a cornerstone of his second term... only his crooked ways kinda put the snafu on that.
So what did Hillary do regarding National health care that frosted everyones cookies?
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Books about Hillary:
Hell to Pay: The Unfolding Story of Hillary Rodham Clinton
American Evita : Hillary Clinton's Path to Power
Rewriting History
The Case Against Hillary Clinton
Hillary's Scheme : Inside the Next Clinton's Ruthless Agenda to Take the White House
Madame Hillary : The Dark Road to the White House
Here is a surprise, they all describe an evil, scheming, lieing person.
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Big suprise but I don't have anything against Hillary. I think she'd make as good a President as anyone else.
I guess my problem is that, of a population of 300 million, there must be better.
The fact that she's in the running speaks less about her than it does of a political process that would make her a contender.
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Will the MPs zap me if i say "small breasts"?
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Originally posted by Nash
Big suprise but I don't have anything against Hillary. I think she'd make as good a President as anyone else.
I guess my problem is that, of a population of 300 million, there must be better.
The fact that she's in the running speaks less about her than it does of a political process that would make her a contender.
And that illustrates our dilemma, the really good people normally wont run. Those who do run for President aren't normally anyone you would really want to vote for. An example is our very last presidential election.
dago
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Opinions?
I don't think so.
She is against any Social Security that puts funds specifically in the name of the taxpayer.
She is not by any means a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
She's against school vouchers.
She has voted against tax cuts consistently.
Her health care plan was pretty much a big HMO setup with restricted choice compared to many plans.
But it was a valiant effort to marginalize all oppostion posters.
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Toad - the Repubs dug that health care plan. They fought against it because they were warned that if it were passed, it'd be years before a Republican was again elected President.
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Originally posted by Debonair
Will the MPs zap me if i say "small breasts"?
Go ahead and try it and see.
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Originally posted by Nash
Toad - the Repubs dug that health care plan. They fought against it because they were warned that if it were passed, it'd be years before a Republican was again elected President.
And your prove of this is?
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Proof? Before I go dig it back up, please let me know that it'd even make a difference to you.
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I really haven't seen any proof that the "Republicans" dug that plan, which is immaterial.
The point is I didn't dig that health care plan.
I had my time in an HMO. No thanks, I'll pass.
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Originally posted by Nash
Proof? Before I go dig it back up, please let me know that it'd even make a difference to you.
If you have real proof, yes I would like to see it, otherwise it is just conjecture and nonsense and reminiscient of democratic nonsense and lies.
thanks
dago
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She has fat thighs. I hate her.
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Shes fake. When Billy was caught messing around, she should have acted p/o'd and been open about it. But she even calculated that because she didnt want to have an honest reponse come back and haunt her later in her bid for power.
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Have to agree ...I wish she had shown some ballz and pubicly tossed him off into the deep end right after he beat off the impeachment rap.
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Okay, thanks Holden. Now we have all the makings of a Kentucky Fried Chicken "Hillary Special."
A big thigh, a small breast and a left wing.
$49.75 (including health insurance surcharge)
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Originally posted by Nash
Big suprise but I don't have anything against Hillary. I think she'd make as good a President as anyone else.
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I agree with you , as long as it's the President of Canada :aok
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Originally posted by Toad
Opinions?
I don't think so.
She is against any Social Security that puts funds specifically in the name of the taxpayer.
She is not by any means a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
She's against school vouchers.
She has voted against tax cuts consistently.
Her health care plan was pretty much a big HMO setup with restricted choice compared to many plans.
But it was a valiant effort to marginalize all oppostion posters.
The request was for valid reason to "HATE" Hillary. If these meet your criteria for hatred you need to chill Mr. Toad.
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I would have more respect for Hillary if she had filed for divorce after Billy was caught red handed with another women. How can anyone trust her leadership judgment if she wasn't not willing to leave her husband over that?
Conservatives have been anticipating her run for the presidency for some time now. They are worried which is understandable to me because anyone who can put on a yankee baseball cap and get elected to the senate from a state shes not even from must have a lot of political clout.
:noid
Personally I'm tired of Bush's and Clinton's in the drivers seat, I'd rather see new blood....
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Choirboy is asking for "supporting data" that will explain a visceral emotion. That is no different than asking someone for "supporting data" as to why you love someone.... most, or all of the "supporting data" would be purely subjective. Emotions are not necessarily rational, a point that Choirboy seems to realize and wishes to exploit here.
Choirboy trots out the well-worn leftist talking points that those who hate Hillary simply feel threatened by "women in power" - an assumption he will be forced to make unless someone can provide him with "supporting data."
Here is my "supporting data" for hating Hillary Clinton:
Everything I've seen or heard about her, from the very first time she asserted herself as some kind of non-elected co-President to her Present day political demeanor has filled me with contempt. I disagree with practically all her views, until recently when she began positiioning herself for the Presidential run.
Don't infer that I feel threatened by women in power. I love Condi Rice. I'd vote for her over Hillary in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by Debonair
Will the MPs zap me if i say "small breasts"?
I was going to say "she's hot" just to see what sort of reaction I got...but then I got queasy typing it.
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I know from personal observation that Sandman would hit that thick-ankled, eye-rolling, ambitious hag even though her fluttering love purse is ringed with stainless steel teeth.
I'd like to see some data points on that...
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How dare she be Ambitious!!!
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MT, how predictable you are. The ambition doesn't bother me. Think of it as an adjective, an accurate one.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
MT, how predictable you are. The ambition doesn't bother me. Think of it as an adjective, an accurate one.
Cool! What am I thinking now?
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it is not at all an "opinion" that she is against 2nd amendment rights..
It is not an "opinion" that she is against school vouchers.
It is an opinion that she is a red socialist but no one here would deny it I don't guess..
It is my opinion that she either had vince foster killed or hid the evicence or both.
She is not the worst candidate I could imagine but near the top.
Of all the women I know not one of them says that they would vote for her.
lazs
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quote:
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Originally posted by Gunthr
MT, how predictable you are. The ambition doesn't bother me. Think of it as an adjective, an accurate one.
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Cool! What am I thinking now? - MT
Lets see ... Gunthr is a knucklehead????
__________________
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You're right Gunth, I'm predictable.
:cool:
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The request was for valid reason to "HATE" Hillary. If these meet your criteria for hatred you need to chill Mr. Toad.
These are the reasons I'd HATE her as President.
I thought that's what we were talking about.
It's pointless and a waste of time to hate her as a person. Actually having to be herself is more punishment than she deserves probably.
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Still waiting for Nash to provide the proof of his statement.
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9/10ths of the "specifics" are just opinions. This is as weak as attacking Boosh.
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Originally posted by Nash
Big suprise but I don't have anything against Hillary. I think she'd make as good a President as anyone else.
I am going out of town, so may be not on for a few days, but I will check for your proof of statement you made and said you would look up later.
Also, it doesnt matter really whether you think she would make a good president. You dont get a vote.
dago
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No self worth.
She never beat Bill for playing with the fat chick.
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2nd amendment. period.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
I know from personal observation that Sandman would hit that thick-ankled, eye-rolling, ambitious hag even though her fluttering love purse is ringed with stainless steel teeth.
I'd like to see some data points on that...
:rofl
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2nd amendment and vouchers.... she is against both of em.... no speculation about that...
I love it that some are saying that her being a socialist lefty is "speculation" tho.... I think it is very telling that they think she is doing a good job of hiding it.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I love it that some are saying that her being a socialist lefty is "speculation" tho.... I think it is very telling that they think she is doing a good job of hiding it.
Very easy to solve...what specifics do you have to convince someone that it is not speculation?
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Great conversation, thanks for the tips! Despite the efforts of cranks like Gunthr (seriously dude, I was asking without an agenda, not that you're gonna believe me) I think there have been some really good points here.
I can see a lot of reasons people disagree with her, and maybe even dislike her. I still don't have a real grasp for some of the froth I've seen here, but maybe it's just my imagination.
Hope this thread has been of use to y'all as well!
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ouch
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Chair
Start one about why people like her, it will be just as much of a Mystery thread lol.
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I've been trying to remember if I'd even seen very much "frothing" over Hillary here. I'm sure there are some, but I don't recall them.
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Chairboy, I sort of alluded to it before, it may be that Hillary has become an icon...
Your question is a bit tricky. If it wasn't intended that way, I apologise.
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No worries, sorry I pulled the 'crank' trigger, I guess it wasn't warranted either.
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Originally posted by Phaser11
No self worth.
She never beat Bill for playing with the fat chick.
Look at her... the dank fat chick was a big step up.
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Originally posted by Phaser11
No self worth.
She never beat Bill for playing with the fat chick.
This is the funniest reason for hatred of all. Here we have the family values-bible belt-christian coalition crowd saying "she shoulda divorced the cad!" instead of "how wonderful that the sanctity and lifetime commitment of marriage was saved... and for all the world to see. WTG Hillary and Bill".
lol
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I'd vote for her if she left Bill for Henny Youngman
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I don't hate Hillary, so maybe I don't belong in this thread.
I would never give her my vote because she's just a little too far on the other side of the aisle from me. Calling her a red-flag waving commie pinko is fun, but so is calling Bush Hitler.
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I really dont care who becomes president in 08. I just want to invade another third world country. If Hillary can give me that I'll vote for her.
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Notice the close proximity to columbia, first ecuador then columbia.
(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/maps/ec-map.gif)
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the fat chick was hillary's fault. if she stayed on top of draining bills worm regularly...
...he wouldn't have gone fer a fat chick.
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Hillary made a specific statement during a political rally.
She told everyone that we (Dems?) are going to take your money. She said it with a laugh and a very big grin. VERY SADLY she got cheers from the crowd.
She has made other statements that reflect her views as well. I'm surprised no one has refered to those statements.
She was supposedly aimming that statement at the so called fat cat types but.............
The fat cats usually find a legal loop hole or something and the rest of the people get the SHAFT.
Who is she to take anyone's money?
BTW she will NOT get my vote.
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She smokes used cigars!
:aok
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Hating a person that has a shot at power and is also a rabid socialist is simply common sense and self preservation.
take away second amendment rights.... block vouchers... continue the useless social security program as is... these are all vile and evil things that help to destroy the country... more than enough reason to fear and hate her.
lazs
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I’m misogynist towards specific government officials that has ability to ‘light the fuse’. :D
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I think these are the real reasons, if some of you are prepared to be that honest:
She's a woman.
She's married to Bill Clinton.
She's a Democrat.
She's not a Republican.
In more or less that order. I would suggest the first is her biggest sin. In many ways American politics is rather old fashioned in it's ways. In my opinion no woman will be elected president of the USA for a long time to come. When a woman is finally elected she will be Republican and will have have the kind of views that make George W look like a pinko commie. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by wrag
...The fat cats usually find a legal loop hole or something and the rest of the people get the SHAFT.
This is a truism no matter what party is in power or system of government you have. Our country was a good shot at trying to correct that problem, but I can't say we've been very successful at it. Seems like we're getting worse as we go along.
AFAIK, Hillary has not declared herself a candidate for the Presidency, and I hope she doesn't. She seems to be even more of a polarizing figure than GW, and I think that is the last thing we need in our next President.
Did you guys see Paul Hackett will be running for the Senate in Ohio? He is an Iraqi War vet who says the Democratic position on gun control is flat out wrong. Nice to see that happening. I hope Mr. Dean is paying attention.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
I think these are the real reasons, if some of you are prepared to be that honest:
She's a woman.
She's married to Bill Clinton.
She's a Democrat.
She's not a Republican.
1)Wrong! I couldn't care less if she is a woman.
2)Wrong! Granted it shows the lack of morals or pride she has.
3)Well Duh! But she isn't JUST a Democrat she is a far left Democrat pretending to be a moderate.
4)Wrong! I don't care what party she is from just what she has done and plans to do.
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One on one...Hillary comes across as just another human being.
And you know what stinkers THEY are!
Most of the guys on these boards would find that they could carry on a fairly decent conversation with her. I once had the opportunity to talk with her back when she was governor of Arkansas, and she was polite, knowledgeable, and seemed to respect what I had to say. However, the topic was early childhood education, a sort of common ground for the both of us, so nothing controversial came up.
As to her relationship with Bill, let me say that the affair with Monica undoubtedly did NOT come as a surprise to her. It was common knowledge in Arkansas, snickeringly acknowledged in state newspapers and magazines that Ole Slick had been letting his horse out of the corral before, during, and after his marriage to Hillary. There was NO WAY that she didn't know about it. Yet, she married him anyway and put up with his philandering during his entire tenture as governor of our state.
You may feel differently about it, but I find it hard to have any respect for a woman who puts up with that type of unprincipled behavior. To my mind, there's only ONE reason she endured it...ambition. She fully intended to ride her husband's coattails into political office. There's nothing wrong with ambition as long as one isn't subject to the disease that often attends it.
There are a number of reasons that I wouldn't vote for her. First, she's a dyed-in-the-wool socialist. Put her in office with democratic majorities in both houses and you have a recipe for fiscal disaster of the first magnitude.
Secondly, she would have the same f-e-c-kless attitude toward foreign policy that characterized Bill's administration.
Third, much of the hostility displayed towards the military by Slick's staff has been attributed to Hillary and her cronies. I feel she neither respects or understands the military, and would draw up policies designed to neuter it. In that regard, she would have been perfectly at ease with the isolationist, anti-military governments of the 1920s and 1930s.
Fourth, she has little understanding of, or inclination to understand, the rural and conservative values that I hold dear. The policies and causes she has championed since her college days in the 1960s have caused considerable harm to the social, political, and spiritual institutions of the nation.
Lastly, I fear she is far more ruthless than Bill ever dreamed of being. Hand her the Oval Office with solid democratic majorities and she would exhibit a political intransigence unlike anything the country has ever seen.
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cpxx... I think you are either not understanding the U.S. or you haven't read the thread. in her billary disquise she put into the supreme court the biggest dried up prune commie ACLU ***** the world has ever seen in the supreme court... this is a very good reason to hate her.
The second amendment is indeed a very important thing to more than half the population.
I am allmost certain that she either had vince foster murdered or covered it up or both.
She is for socialist heath care... think Americans with british teeth...
She is against vouchers which are the only real hope for our children and our future... soon... only the wealthy and the home schooled will be better educated than a DC ghetto dweller.
lazs
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Don't misunderstand me. There are very good reasons to oppose Hillary. Personally I wouldn't like to see her as President for some of the reasons mentioned. But not every voter can see her as a socialist. A lot of people vote for someone with only a limited understanding of what they actually stand for.
So I still believe my reasons are good and will prevent her ever becoming President. I think it most likely that the first woman President will in fact be a Republican and conservative in the Margaret Thatcher mould. But it won't be Condy.
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I don't hate Hillary!! As a matter of fact, I'm hoping to get a shot at those FAT thighs in the Oval Office! :aok
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I heard earlier this week that she is totally opposed to requiring a passport to cross the boarder from Canada to the U.S. She claims it will hurt tourism.
In this day and age I don't think requiring a passport to cross either way is a bad idea. I am already required to bring birth certificates for my kids (I already have a passport). When my kids are in the car, both sides ask for the birth certificates 100% of the time. When I don't have the kids, they ask for my passport 90% of the time. This is at Port Huron-Sarnia.
It's not like requiring a passport is going to make it any slower than it already is. They already ask the standard questions and ask for ID.
I don't see where her problem is with passports. I haven't had the time to dig up a link where she explains exactly why it would be a bad thing (other than the blanket 'it will hurt tourism').
By the way how's 2008: Clinton vs. Rice sound?
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cpx... just imagine if you had to watch movies from now on with Americans in em with british teeth.... I rest my case.
I do think you are correct tho. The first woman pres will have to be a very conservative and tough (not shrill harpy tough like klinton tho) old broad in the thatcher mold.
Sandra Froman would get my vote. Rice would have a better chance than klinton.
lazs
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cpx... just imagine if you had to watch movies from now on with Americans in em with british teeth.... I rest my case.
Hmm that reminds me. Teeth, need to get mine done. My wife is nagging since I chipped a front tooth on a fork.
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If they banned forks... imagine all the money the rest of your comrades would be saving!
lazs
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A poll on the news a couple days ago showed both Rudy Gulliani and Sen McCain would easily beat Hillary in a presidential election.
I on the other hand would be happy to beat Hillary with a big stick.
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HEY NASH, where is your Proof??????
You said you would provide it!!!
I guess you just make stuff up to try and sound like you know something, or to prove a non-existant point.
dago