Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: mkaykov on October 04, 2005, 01:44:32 PM
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I can land any plane in Aces High well, but not tha messerchmit 262 or the 163b. I line up with the runway perfectly, get the plane on the groumd, but then i can stop...................
Please help me, is there any air brake on the me 262, because I can't stop with the wheel brakes.
Thanks.
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Make sure you throttle back. Also try turning engines off then braking. It can take a long time to stop because often times the 262 is going so fast.
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Practise carrier landings with land based planes :D
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land the 262 slow, well bellow 200mph then just hit brakes as normal.
Full flaps, gears out bellow 250mph. Tail slide her in (full rudder and opposit aileron and keep her straight, will slow you down before landing). Then just put her down when she doesn't wanna stay in the air anymore.
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on top of turning off my engine at or just before touchdown, I dump my flaps 100% and at roughly 75 mph I pull back on the stick. I try to get my plane as dirty as I can. for most planes if you pull back on the stick, you will lock your rear tire, this in turn will keep your plane strait.
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Wilbus said it already, what you need to do is pull a "slip" while descending in to land. As he said, put your rudder full over to one direction and the ailerons to the other, crossing the controls to create as much drag and downforce as you can. This will slow you down drastically and is usually all I have to do to get the jet slow enough to land easily.
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its simple.
dont use gear.
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But..but..that would ruin the paint job!!
-C+
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Easy way to dig trenches though.
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Thanks
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As a side note: Do NOT land the 262 at 200+mph. Slow down to 160-ish if you want a good chance of a safe landing (and those perks usually warrant a little caution).
If you're going 200+ you're going to be off the runway on the opposite side parked in a tree missing 2 wings and a tail and you'll lose any flight certification your control tower may bestow upon you :P
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I heard engines off give more drag; haven't tested it for myself, tho.
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With props, yes. With jets? HeckifIknow.
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Originally posted by LTARmedc
on top of turning off my engine at or just before touchdown, I dump my flaps 100% and at roughly 75 mph I pull back on the stick. I try to get my plane as dirty as I can. for most planes if you pull back on the stick, you will lock your rear tire, this in turn will keep your plane strait.
You'll need to do some throttle adjustments when doing this though, the problem with the Me-262 is that it doesn't give direct power unlike the prop-planes
With prop planes, you firewall the throttle and it immediately delivers the needed power, the jets take some time for this
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The spool up and spool down times are slower, yes. I think this is true even of modern jets.
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Its not that shutting off the engines gives you more drag...it just takes away the thrust. The engines are set at 3000rpm when at idle which is a good correction since many jets run at 40% ish (and a very very big ISH that is for the know it alls out there) depending on the airplane and engine. Before it would drop to zero and there was no thrust...now we've got it and again I think a good change for realism.
I recorded a film of landing the jet and procedures...will post as soon as i edit it for length.
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Thanks Golfer.
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Is it possible for the jets to change rpm?
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No.
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Any information about the 262's landing speed etc out there? What was their approuch-speed, landing speed, flap & throttle settings?
Im sure there must be SOME original data about such a famous jet?
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Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
No.
There is, but there is no manifold pressure. The RPM = Your throttle.
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Ah ofcourse! It's so logical, I have to fly the 262 abit more often! :)
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Hi Ooz,
>Easy way to dig trenches though.
Test pilot Beauvais once overshot on take-off, tearing off his gear and plowing a field. The medics, finding him un-injured, presented him with a potato they had found in the wake of his crash - "the first ever harvested with jet technology".
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by OOZ662
There is, but there is no manifold pressure. The RPM = Your throttle.
Correct you are. In my haste I just thought of how the "regular" rpm was changed and that it had no effect in the jets.
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Originally posted by frank3
Any information about the 262's landing speed etc out there? What was their approuch-speed, landing speed, flap & throttle settings?
Im sure there must be SOME original data about such a famous jet?
Single engine landing
1. Trimmiming tabs on the rudder must be in 'neurtal' position.
2. Minimum approach speed 260kph(162mph). At this speed the a/c drops between 1 > 2m per sec at full throttle, and with the undercarrge lowered.
3. Only lower the undercarriage when the airfield can be reached without again opening the throttle.
Lower flaps
The above is translated from the POH, L.Dv.T2262 A-1 and A-2 as found in the Classic 262 series of books.
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262 Film (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/621_1128788820_262training.ahf)
Here is the film as promised. I’ve had some sound recording issues in the training arena as of late so if the transmissions are garbled or you miss any part for any reason please let me know. For some reason the TA and offline only have this problem and the MA is unaffected. I listened to films from last night and all last week from the MA and they’re loud and clear whereas the TA I am quite garbled. Who knows?
Good Luck!
Golfer’s tips and guidelines for the Me-262.
1.) This is a very aerodynamically clean and efficient airplane. That means that it will not “go down and slow down” without some coaxing from the pilot. Fortunately we have a technique just for this problem called a “Slip.” Do not confuse this for something your wife, girlfriend or significant other might wear in the bedroom. The slip is used every day in the real world and is certainly a valid maneuver in Aces High. In fact on nearly every 262 flight in normal MA play I use it to land.
How to slip: Apply light coat of spray on cooking oil to tile floor. Walk on floor at brisk pace wearing socks.
How to slip an airplane: Coordinated and simultaneous use of rudder an aileron. Not just coordinated use, but there are some rules. You will use aileron opposite the direction of rudder. When you attempt to slip lets say using right rudder here is what you’re going to want to do:
•Smoothly begin applying right rudder and adding left aileron to correct for drift and to keep your airplane aligned with the runway centerline.
•Smoothly decrease the pressures together as you come out of the slip to maintain at least an illusion of positive control of the airplane :)
2.) Throttles…USE THEM! As mentioned above this is a very clean and efficient airplane. As a rule of thumb any time you’re going to be pointing the nose down…take out some power. 5000rpm usually works nicely. If you’re going to be nose down more than 20º then idle power is the way to go. I’ve seen many new 262 jet jockeys take their first flights in the airplane during live MA play. I’ve seen many new 262 jet jockeys take their first nosedive and premature reintroduction to terra ferma on that same flight.
The pilots of these turbojet powered lawn darts have grown used to buzzing around the MA with the throttles always at full power. The lack of use has turned the throttle into an armrest and you definitely want to be active with the power when flying the 262 because proper throttle management will save you from picking dirt from your teeth.
3.) When fighting, fire only one set of guns at a time. This will nearly double your useful firing time and with those big 30mm cannons you’re not hitting with 4 anything you’re not hitting with 2. Save yourself the trouble and the short firing time by using them separately.
Good Hunting
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Single engine landing
1. Trimmiming tabs on the rudder must be in 'neutral' position.
2. Minimum approach speed 260kph(162mph). At this speed the a/c drops between 1 > 2m per sec at full throttle, and with the undercarrge lowered.
How odd the trimtabs should be in neutral position at a single engine landing, also it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine
Maybe it's because jets don't produce torque?
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Originally posted by frank3
Maybe it's because jets don't produce torque?
Don't even start that one Frank. Please. Do a search but for the love of god man do not start it again.
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Originally posted by frank3
How odd the trim tabs should be in neutral position at a single engine landing, also it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine
It's not really odd...it's just the procedure. It makes sense too and I'll explain why.
I haven't looked up or double checked the source...but it seems logical enough so I'll assume it's good.
It just said rudder Trim Tab...I teach the same to my students because there is a very good reason for this. For an engine out approach (in any conventional wing mounted engine twin) you're dealing with asymmetric thrust. This is countered by rudder. In cruise or en route to the nearest suitable airport the idea is you trim out that required pressure to save you the trouble of actually holding it with your foot which can be very fatiguing over any period of time.
On approach to the airport I neutralize the rudder trim because I prefer a positive feel on approach using the pedals. I just went through and looked at a number of checklists that I use in various airplanes and noticed they don't say rudder one way or the other. You would follow your checklist and POH procedure first, but since it's not there it's up to the pilot. In fact it's not in the ATP Seminole book which I've found (despite the quality of training they provide for a large fee) to be very well written.
At any rate, you're engine out on an approach to landing. You've got your right engine failed and you've got a lot of LEFT rudder trim to compensate for the right yaw force that that engine is producing. The airplane is properly configured and you're now flying in a crab (the long axis of the airplane is not aligned with the runway centerline) to the left. When you go to take out the power, you're hit with a double whammy. When the thrust being produced by the left engine is taken away by reducing the throttle the nose is now going even further left and will require continuous right rudder throughout the landing flare to keep straight. Now here's the dilemma you'll find yourself in. Nosewheel steering! With all that right rudder in, when the nosewheel finally comes down it will be offset to the right and will give it a good sideload and also risk a blowout if the airplane is heavy/fast enough. On the ground with a little airspeed...believe it or not the rudder does most of the directional control work rather than the nosewheel so you're going to have a heck of a time fighting between the rudder wanting to pull you left and the nosewheel being offset to the right with the rudder neutralized with pedals.
With the trims set to neutral, all you need to do is fly the airplane down to the ground and as you take out the power you remove the asymmetric thrust. By the time you're down there isn't enough to matter and when you touch down your rudder is going to be very close to neutral and so is your nosewheel.
Does that help?
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Originally posted by frank3
it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine
Why is it strange?
Look at the film above with "single engine" listed. You'll see its climbing right after takeoff at 250 indicated and going up better than 1000ft/min
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What I meant is that the 262 goes full power on one engine, and only does 162 mph, I thought it would be abit more
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It said "minimum approach speed" meaning "do this or else!"
There is plenty of capabilitiy for it to go much faster.
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Ah, now I see, I thought it said the 262 would go 162mph during landing with 1 engine at full power!
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Other thread with single engine 262 film (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161309)
What it's saying is to keep the speed at least 162mph on approach and gives you a given value for rate of descent with the Gear Down. I haven't tested this but it sounds right given that the 262 doesn't have a lot of excess thrust anyway it relies on being such an aerodynamically clean and efficient airplane to maintain the speed once it's built up.
Take a look at the other thread and watch that single engine film. Hopefully it will help you.
Good luck