Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AdmRose on October 04, 2005, 09:27:20 PM
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Story Here:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/04/bush.avianflu/index.html
Maybe its just me, but what I get out of that story is:
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/POLITICS/10/04/bush.avianflu/story.bush.presser.jpg)
=
(http://216.127.78.103/~dutch-starwars.com/database/personen/pics/palpatine1.jpg)
Anyone else getting that feeling?
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:huh Typical Bush hater! :huh
Amazing how people can compair a MOVIE to REAL LIFE! WOW!!!
Egle31st
Let me guess, Bush has a secret clone army and is also BIN LADEN!!??
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Let me guess, Bush has a secret clone army and is also BIN LADEN!!??
At this point that could be true and I wouldn't bat an eyelash.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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How am i an idiot??? Im not the one compairing president bush to a movie character! No disrespect Adm, just blows my mind, thats all!
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The excuse of using a military to fight the avian flu breakout is quite poor. The flu does not show symptoms during initial virus’s growth and if we place avian flu in the same category as 1918 influenza; the only action military will be doing is cleaning up dead bodies. Although, it might be a step in the right direction; military does not have official power to quarantine towns or cities as far as I know. As a result, if a biological weapon gets released, police forces cannot keep up with spread of the virus. Each time they contain (draw circle around epidemic center), the virus will be on the other side of quarantine.
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I think its a stupid idea to use military to fight the Flu. Only thing they would be good for is, like russian said, cleaning up bodies, and bringing in supplies. Just kind of stupid to compair Bush to Star Wars.
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
I think its a stupid idea to use military to fight the Flu. Only thing they would be good for is, like russian said, cleaning up bodies, and bringing in supplies. Just kind of stupid to compair Bush to Star Wars.
As far as I know at this moment, no military base has any contingency plans to actually quarantine a city. They have plans for earthquakes, terrorists’ chemical attacks and such, but if there is a need…there should be a plan. With combinations of bio-chemical detections which many large cities employ now, and actions of military, theoretically it is possible to stop the spread. And the military is the only force one that can do it because regular cops do not have enough manpower. So it is not a stupid idea, it is a poor excuse.
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Just kind of stupid to compair Bush to Star Wars.
Do yourself a favor. Never read a book. You'd probably have a heart attack at the first sign of an analogy. :rolleyes:
As for the underlying point (which some of you might have actually CAUGHT), first the Patriot Act and now this. We just seem to be giving more and more power to the President and that my friends is dangerous.
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If understand Posse Comitatus correctly, it won't be Bush sending the military. It'll be Congress.
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Originally posted by Sandman
If understand Posse Comitatus correctly, it won't be Bush sending the military. It'll be Congress.
The article is all about how Bush wants them to give him the power to move the military in the event of a viral outbreak, effectively bypassing Congress.
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Originally posted by AdmRose
The article is all about how Bush wants them to give him the power to move the military in the event of a viral outbreak, effectively bypassing Congress.
Doh... you're right.
This is something that the Congress absolutely should not do.
Hell... while they're at it, they should do away with the war powers act as well.
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Originally posted by Sandman
If understand Posse Comitatus correctly, it won't be Bush sending the military. It'll be Congress.
In that case, it is pointless. By the time Congress makes a decision, the America will be buried six feet under. :lol
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Originally posted by AdmRose
Do yourself a favor. Never read a book. You'd probably have a heart attack at the first sign of an analogy. :rolleyes:
As for the underlying point (which some of you might have actually CAUGHT), first the Patriot Act and now this. We just seem to be giving more and more power to the President and that my friends is dangerous.
Well yes i do read books, quite a few political ones, and not just one sided either. I can see your point though, BUT Russian has a point. I dont think any of the first responders could do such a job, like the military could. Personally i dont think there is anything wrong with the patriot act. Why be worried if you dont have anything to hide?? Let the FBI listen to my phone calls, i have nothing to be worried about, heck they may even have a good day because of it!
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Originally posted by Russian
In that case, it is pointless. By the time Congress makes a decision, the America will be buried six feet under. :lol
You don't know that.
There's good reason to limit these decisions to the Congress. They won't be hasty about it. Unless the need is truly dire, it shouldn't be done.
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Well yes i do read books, quite a few political ones, and not just one sided either. I can see your point though, BUT Russian has a point. I dont think any of the first responders could do such a job, like the military could. Personally i dont think there is anything wrong with the patriot act. Why be worried if you dont have anything to hide?? Let the FBI listen to my phone calls, i have nothing to be worried about, heck they may even have a good day because of it!
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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I hope he would, because he was a very intellegent man! A true American!! <<
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But we each have our own opinion and even though we may not agree, we band together if America is threatened, either my an enemy or by Nature, and thats what makes this country so great!!
Plz dont forget about Sept 11th, Hurrican Katrina, Rita!!
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Plz dont forget about Sept 11th, Hurrican Katrina, Rita!!
Hmmm... this is relevant in what way?
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Originally posted by Sandman
You don't know that.
There's good reason to limit these decisions to the Congress. They won't be hasty about it. Unless the need is truly dire, it shouldn't be done.
If we put humor aspect of my quote aside, that type of action requires immediate reaction. I’m ignorant on speed of Congress’ reaction, but it is probably not as fast as if a commander in chief had to do it. Waking up during night from a phone call and giving order or assembling entire Congress clearly shows which action is faster.
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It might be faster, but it might also be prone to abuse. I like that whole checks and balances thing that the Founders came up with.
I wonder what they would think of our new king.
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Originally posted by Russian
If we put humor aspect of my quote aside, that type of action requires immediate reaction. I’m ignorant on speed of Congress’ reaction, but it is probably not as fast as if a commander in chief had to do it. Waking up during night from a phone call and giving order or assembling entire Congress clearly shows which action is faster.
Congress managed to declare war on Japan in only 1 day, if I recall correctly.
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Flu?
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
How am i an idiot??? Im not the one compairing president bush to a movie character! No disrespect Adm, just blows my mind, thats all!
You are one because you decided to toe the "typical bush hater" line and then go with the predictable exaggeration like it actually makes a point. Not to mention the multitude of spelling mistakes.
-SW
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Originally posted by Sandman
It might be faster, but it might also be prone to abuse. I like that whole checks and balances thing that the Founders came up with.
I wonder what they would think of our new king.
Originally posted by AdmRose
Congress managed to declare war on Japan in only 1 day, if I recall correctly.
I understand checks and balances concept, and I hearty agree to it. Although, “a communist government can handle such situation much better.” – A guy from Livermore labs (designing detection methods to bio-chem) said. Even if it takes one day, it will be one day too late. My personal opinion, containment of the bird flu cannot be done in this day and age.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Flu? LOL!
Is it funny that 35% of the population will perish? Because that’s the ‘death rate’ of a simple flu once it jumps to humans and regains influenza like spreading speeds.
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This is a BIG problem.
I have all the respect in the world for a soldier serving overseas.
Deployed here against americans to do quarantine and police work, population control; superior to state police and local law enforcement run by elected chiefs and sheriffs..
Man, yer talkin civil war.
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IIRC this bird flu has a kill rate of 50%.
You think its a bad idea to nail it down?
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I think it's a bad idea to use the military to do the nailing.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You are one because you decided to toe the "typical bush hater" line and then go with the predictable exaggeration like it actually makes a point. Not to mention the multitude of spelling mistakes.
-SW
Didnt realize i was in a spelling class, mybad!:rolleyes: Well thats your opinoin and i respect that. Im not gonna sit here on this forum and act like a child argueing with you about it. No need too, from what i can tell, NONE of us have a say in the matter so we can continue to argue until we all pass out. Not gonna change a darn thing. I may not have made since to you, but a lot of what people say about certian subjects doesnt make since to me. But what can ya do!
Egle31st
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Originally posted by Vulcan
IIRC this bird flu has a kill rate of 50%.
You think its a bad idea to nail it down?
I haven’t checked since last year. Probably it is as you say….
What is nail it down mean?
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I thought he meant quarantine.
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Yeah, he's implying quarantine.
Did no one else see Outbreak?
(http://uashome.alaska.edu/~jndfg20/website/outbreak.jpg)
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Originally posted by Sandman
I thought he meant quarantine.
In that case, and if that was directed towards me, I think it’s an impossible task. I do not think that its ‘bad’…as a necessity it must be done.
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Originally posted by Russian
I haven’t checked since last year. Probably it is as you say….
What is nail it down mean?
Quarantine it, isolate it, etc. I don't see any other manpower resource should a major outbreak occur other than the military. Police and health officials are not up to the job. It amazes me, on one hand yanks beyatch and moan nothing was done to prevent the issues brought by Katrina, on the other hand Bush does what should be done, ie highlights the issue and potential response to the bird flu, and everyone starts screaming police state.
Sitting over here I sometimes wonder who'd want to be president of the USA.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yeah, he's implying quarantine.
Did no one else see Outbreak?
(http://uashome.alaska.edu/~jndfg20/website/outbreak.jpg)
Yeah... was thinking the same thing. That movie pretty well illustrates why the military shouldn't be involved. Yes. I know it's just a movie. Yes. I know that Hollywood paints the military in the most horrible light and they do so as a general rule.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Quarantine it, isolate it, etc. I don't see any other manpower resource should a major outbreak occur other than the military. Police and health officials are not up to the job. It amazes me, on one hand yanks beyatch and moan nothing was done to prevent the issues brought by Katrina, on the other hand Bush does what should be done, ie highlights the issue and potential response to the bird flu, and everyone starts screaming police state.
Sitting over here I sometimes wonder who'd want to be president of the USA.
I’m not arguing about that, in fact I agree with you 100%. I know this last reply was not directed towards me, but if you look at what I previously wrote, I stated same thing in just different wording.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Quarantine it, isolate it, etc. I don't see any other manpower resource should a major outbreak occur other than the military. Police and health officials are not up to the job. It amazes me, on one hand yanks beyatch and moan nothing was done to prevent the issues brought by Katrina, on the other hand Bush does what should be done, ie highlights the issue and potential response to the bird flu, and everyone starts screaming police state.
Sitting over here I sometimes wonder who'd want to be president of the USA.
IMHO, the disastor of Katrina rests quite nicely on the shoulders of the governor and the mayor of new orleans. Bush made one big mistake I think and he did it far in advance of the hurricane. He put Brown in a position of authority that he was grossly unqualified for. Other than that, I don't see Katrina as a glaring example of federal failure.
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"Hmmm... this is relevant in what way?"
REMEMBER THE MAINE!
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I would rather take my chances with the birdie flu than with the military government.
as for fema... disband it.
lazs
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Hah you fools.. You haven't watched X-files at all!
Mulder and Scully will pwn all teh birdieflu with the top secret biohazard fighting team.
Don't worry!
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If you give a politician, or anyone in a position of power, powers that can be abused. Those powers will eventually be abused.
The greater the powers give the worse the result will be.
This has been said by many wise individuals in many different ways over the past centuries.
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LOL Outbrake!
Here's a good read on PCA.
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm
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Originally posted by Vulcan
It amazes me, on one hand yanks beyatch and moan nothing was done to prevent the issues brought by Katrina, on the other hand Bush does what should be done, ie highlights the issue and potential response to the bird flu, and everyone starts screaming police state.
Thank you! I was beginning to wonder if it only appeared that way from the inside.
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Originally posted by VOR
Thank you! I was beginning to wonder if it only appeared that way from the inside.
Item.. in a situation like the president uses for his example the emergency powers act will allow him to deploy troops. In other words, the office of the president already has far-reaching powers in a state of declared emergency.
Item.. Removal or change of The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 will allow the president to deploy troops without congressional approval AND without a declaration of emergency.
This is a clear overeach of presidential power, and as such does not assure anybody of additional saftey or security.. it instead makes it a foregone cinch that American Troops could be used to search, detain, arrest or place on trial American Civilians, in other words it removes a states right to decide on deployment and shifts the chain of command for Guard troops from the state government to the president.
Again, I have the utmost respect for American Troops abroad. I was one. However, deploy troops in my home town or state and begin to arrest, detain or ursurp rights assured to citizens by the constitution and these very same troops that were hero's abroad will become citizens enimies and legitimate targets for patriots.
Not good.
Not good at all.
VOR, this is NOT an appropriate move by the President. Again, the President can declare a temporary state of emergency and deploy without bypassing the Posse Comitatus Act. To keep troops deployed he needs Congressional approval and a request from the State. With the Act by-passed he has a green light to permanantly bypass congress in the use of troops inside the US, against US citizens. That's just WRONG.
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Of course it's not an appropriate move, Hangtime. I was referring to the bi-polar nature of America's view of it's federal government.
"Deploy troops in my home town or state and begin to arrest, detain or ursurp rights assured to citizens by the constitution and these very same troops that were hero's abroad will become citizens enimies and legitimate targets for patriots."
This is an entirely different issue.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Item.. in a situation like the president uses for his example the emergency powers act will allow him to deploy troops. In other words, the office of the president already has far-reaching powers in a state of declared emergency.
Item.. Removal or change of The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 will allow the president to deploy troops without congressional approval AND without a declaration of emergency.
Hang is absolutely correct! There is no need now nor in the future to revise or re-write the Posse Comitatus Act. The President has all the powers he needs to deal with any emergency that may arise. The key word is EMERGENCY!
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All I heard Bush saying is that he wanted congress to have a discussion about it. It will be congress that makes any changes/deletions/additions to the law. Thats their job. Congress is elected by YOU and as such, the actions of congress represent YOU as an american citizen.
Some of you peeps need to be IN a Star Wars movie.
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Originally posted by Yeager
All I heard Bush saying is that he wanted congress to have a discussion about it. It will be congress that makes any changes/deletions/additions to the law. Thats their job. Congress is elected by YOU and as such, the actions of congress represent YOU as an american citizen.
Some of you peeps need to be IN a Star Wars movie.
You're right! And Congress ALWAYS does everything that we as an American people want! We're saved!
:rolleyes:
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no silly...its the SYSTEM of GOVERNMENT that was ESTABLISHED some years before you arrived on the scene.
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Originally posted by Sandman
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who is not on this board or associated with HTC. They are Freakin' Idiots!
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(http://www.tomrobinson.com/war/assets/gulfwars.jpg)
It is consitent.... Anyway, when do we get fricken star destroyers? Will the Imperial march become our anthem too?
:rofl
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Maybe some of you liberals shouldn't complain so much about the federal govt's slow response in the future.
ever hear the adage "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"
Well......HERE IT IS!
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Maybe some of you liberals shouldn't complain so much about the federal govt's slow response in the future.
ever hear the adage "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"
Well......HERE IT IS!
No no no.
Vulcan is right.
The liberals always complain no matter what Bush does.
A few weeks ago:
Bawwwwww! The Govt didnt forcably evacuate poor black people at federal gunpoint from New orleans before teh storm. Bush is teh nazi racist!!
And Now:
Bush is threating to use federal troops to control populations in a time of crisis. He is hitler!! And possible teh emperar guy from star wars movies.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Maybe some of you liberals shouldn't complain so much about the federal govt's slow response in the future.
ever hear the adage "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"
Well......HERE IT IS!
And your conservative bellybutton is comfortable with a liberal dick in it?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
And your conservative bellybutton is comfortable with a liberal dick in it?
I'm not sure how your 1+1=2 here but for the record i'm not a conservative.
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Repeal of Posse Comitatus will amount to ALL of us gettin a Federal Screwing.
Remember some threads back my concern about "the other shoe falling' when the president 'took responsibility' for the failures of FEMA in his speach?
Well, here's the other shoe. And he's placing it right on our necks. This is no conservative or liberal issue.. it's blatant over-reaching of federal power. It's supension of states rights, without recourse.
This is very, very bad.
Sorry for my graphic retort upthread.. suffice to say I'm frothing at the mouth over this one.
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If I was a conservative Hang I'd disagree with him because I would be for smaller federal govt. I'm just pointing out that this is the results of what what the democrats complained about in reguards to Katrina. They want the lumbering federal govt to move faster than this is how the federal govt does it.
I never said I agreed with it. I am in fact adamently against it.