Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MANDO on October 09, 2005, 03:49:09 PM
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German IR scope used in tanks and assault rifles. Any good info about it?
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At least on the STG 44, it was way too bulky to be used effectively.
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edited cause I am stupid and did not read the post correctly
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The germans developed and fielded a gun sight enhancement for the panther and a comanders cupola that had a 200 watt spot light and viewer. Using the comanders spot light the panthers IR main sight could only engage out to 400 meters or so.
To provide greater engagement range for the panthers it was intended to provide each platoon of 4 panthers with an sdkfz 251/20 "Uhu" spot light half track. Each was equiped with a huge spot light that would alow the sensors on the half track to observe out to 1500 meters and the panthers to engage at 700.
It must be understood that these are active IR systems. they need IR illumination and the source of that ilumination is glowing like a light house to anyone with a viewer that can detect IR.
So the spot light would provide observation to 1500 meters while it was itself visible from 10000 meters to anyone that could see IR. A signifigant tactical disadvantage.
Having the emmiter and the scope on a personal weapon is silly.
Having the scope on a personal weapon and relying on an exteranl spot light makes better tactical sense. The guy manning the spotlight is a very very brave guy though. Considering that the practical range of his spot light is easiy within the range of enemy crew served weapons who can see his spot light with any IR scope but cannot be seen by the guy manning the spot light.
Every IR equiped enemy will be raining down hell on him as soon as he emits.
The germans had manufactured 60 or so of the big spot light vehicles and 1000s of the scope kits by the end of the war. The war was in such a state by that time that using them en mass was not possible. But they were used in issolated engagments near the end of the war.
It should be stated that this technology was well understood by the allies and the US at least was developing simular units at the same time.
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The British systems were developed under the codename "Tabby". Used from about 1941 on an experimental basis, in more widespread use towards the end of the war.
See http://www.tubecollector.org/cv143.htm
http://www.nightvisionforums.com/about382.html-ww2-british-quottabbyquot-night-vision-monocular-infrared-veiwer.html
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"Every IR equiped enemy will be raining down hell on him as soon as he emits."
I don't think those things were very common so it probably was considered more like an unfortunate coincidence if the enemy happened to have IR receivers. Dunno how common they were among allied troops?
400 meters firing distance in complete darkness? I'd take that rather than not being able to see at all.
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They were not common or even issued to allied troops that I know of, but to think anyone would get exclusive use of them is incorrect.
The emitter is visible at far greater range then he can himself see using the IR spot light. Its a distinctive tactical disadvantage of active sensors of most types.
To enable your Panther to engage an enemy at 400 meters you are making it suseptible to being engaged from 1000 or more.
Describing the advantage that the device brings to a Panther without pointing out its disadvantage would not be that usefull. If you were playing AH II with the thing enemy panthers would just leave thier spot light off and kill anyone that turned thiers on.
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Of course Pongo. But I meant that in actual WW2 the device was handy although, AFAIK, it was pretty rare even as tank equipment. The advantage of it lies in a belief (or fact) that the enemy does not have similar equipment.
:)
BTW, to those who have not thought about it, the radar has the same problem of passive detection. If you switch on your radar you can be detected by longer ranges that you can actually see by yourself while using the radar.
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Originally posted by Charge
BTW, to those who have not thought about it, the radar has the same problem of passive detection. If you switch on your radar you can be detected by longer ranges that you can actually see by yourself while using the radar.
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Yup. 'Monica', the British tail warning radar, was used viciously by the Germans in that manner to simply home in on bombers using it instead of bumbling around searching for British bombers. Best of all, they could just use passives to find the British.
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Of course active sonar has the same characteristc.
Even a normal spot light does.
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http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1irsnip.htm