Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev367th on October 09, 2005, 09:40:51 PM
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Or is it 'broken'?
Picture tells a thousand words.
(http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/env.jpg)
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I've seen eny not kick in even though bish were below 25% so it might be normal.
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The thing is that the side with most #'s has to out # the other sides combined by some % for the eny to kick in. At least that was my take on it and I have no idea what that % is.
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Just from memory, when those sort of numbers appeared, the ENV restrictions started kicking in when the top team outnumbered the lower team by anything over 40 players(-ish).
Don't think it's when the top one outnumbers both the lower teams combined.
On RARE occasions I've seen two countries ENV'ed for example.
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If you look at the screenshot you posted, it clearly says side balancing is ENABLED.
It is ENY by the way.
Note that the difference between Rooks and Bishops is exactly 10%. It may have to exceed 10% before side balancing begins. I'm sure Dale will be here to comment, or one of the other guys will anyway.
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I noticed it said enabled, just wondered if it may be 'broken'?
Hopefully Dale will set things straight.
Maybe the limits have been tweaked again, just 54 players seems like more than it usually kicked in at.
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Your country has to be below 10% down and over 200 players total online before it kicks in.
And the limits have not been tweeked.
HiTech
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27.5 + 35.1 + 37.5 = 100.1
They were, technically, over 10% down, but all this is moot, as the numbers dropped not long after this.
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Originally posted by hitech
Your country has to be below 10% down and over 200 players total online before it kicks in.
And the limits have not been tweeked.
HiTech
CC Thanks -
In which case there may be a slight flaw in the ENY logic -
i.e. The more players the top team has on, the less the least team has to have for ENY limits to kick in.
E.g. using two teams as its easier to show-
Team 1 - 200 players, Team 2 has to have 179 for ENY to start (diff of 21)
Team 1 - 300 players, Team 2 has to have 269 for ENY to start (diff of 31)
Team 1 - 400 players, Team 2 has to have 359 for ENY to start (diff of 41)
etc, etc.
Basically ENY is working in reverse (if I am reading it right). The more players one team has, the less the other teams have to have for ENY to kick in.
Sounds right in one way, but kind of strange.
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We have 3 varibles.
1. Min total players for ENY to take effect.
2. BaseCountryPer Currently .1
3. CountryBalanceScale currently 2.1
In An example.
Team 1 - 200 players
Team 2 - 300 players
Team 3 - 400 players
Total 900
200 / 900 = 0.22
300 / 900 = 0.33
400 / 900 = 0.44
Now find the Least number i.e. 0.22
You country MinEny will be given by.
MinEny = (YourRatio - (Least + BaseCountryPer)) * CountryBalanceScale * 100
If MinEny is < 0 make it 0
So Team 1 (0.22 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = -21.0 i.e. 0
So Team 2 (0.33 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = 2.1
So Team 3 (0.44 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = 25.1
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Ah,
thanks for taking the time to explain.
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Originally posted by hitech
We have 3 varibles.
1. Min total players for ENY to take effect.
2. BaseCountryPer Currently .1
3. CountryBalanceScale currently 2.1
In An example.
Team 1 - 200 players
Team 2 - 300 players
Team 3 - 400 players
Total 900
200 / 900 = 0.22
300 / 900 = 0.33
400 / 900 = 0.44
Now find the Least number i.e. 0.22
You country MinEny will be given by.
MinEny = (YourRatio - (Least + BaseCountryPer)) * CountryBalanceScale * 100
If MinEny is < 0 make it 0
So Team 1 (0.22 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = -21.0 i.e. 0
So Team 2 (0.33 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = 2.1
So Team 3 (0.44 - (0.22 + 0.1 )) * 2.1 * 100 = 25.1
:confused: And I thought math class was confusing sometimes...
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Dale,
I was wondering if you would consider adding another factor in the calculation. Currently ENY will kick-in for the country with the most players even if that country has very few bases left. This is an indication of 2 countries using more than half of their players against the 3rd country. It seems to me that a country should not be penalized with ENY if it has less than 1/4 of the bases regardless of the number of players it has on. Once the base count evens-up, then the ENY should kick-in.
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"2. BaseCountryPer Currently .1"
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So what are the exact ratios required to give 0 (no ENV) and 5 ('lowest' in game) ENY values?
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Originally posted by Scrap
"2. BaseCountryPer Currently .1"
I think that was in response to my post. Look at the example Dale gave. BaseCountryPer appears to be a constant...not a variable. I'm talking about a variable equal to the number of bases owned by the country. So if a map has 100 bases and Team 3 has 20 bases, then ENY of 25.1 would not kick-in.
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Still say ratios is what doesn't make sense.
The higher numbers the top team has, the lowest team has to have proportionally much less compared to if the highest team had fewer of an advantage.
(Read that twice, seems to make sense)
Still think an easier way is to say once the high team has a set numbers advantage (as long as total in arena > 200) then ENY kicks in at preset limits.
i.e. for example say at
+40 - ENY 5
+50 - ENY 10
etc etc.
Just an idea.
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yes
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Kev what you are asking for dosn't make sense in my mind, your saying if 1 team has 1000 and the other has 1040 there should be a 10 eny limit?
Make much more sense to me to run it simply on a percentage basis.
HiTech
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I see your point but the problem with using percentages is the disparity it causes as the higher numbered side gets more players.
For example -
If you use 10%
1) Team has 200, the other has to have 179 or less for ENY, diff of 21
2) Team has 300, the other has to have 269 or less for ENY, diff of 31
3) Team has 400, the other has to have 359 or less for ENY, diff of 41
As you can see, the higher numbers one team has, the bigger the difference has to be for ENY to kick in. Just seems to work in reverse.
Whereas if you were to pick a set difference in numbers (regardless of actual numbers) where the ENY limits apply (I only used previous as an example) it would seem to more equitable.
Even in your own example a difference of 100 players (1/2 again as much as low team) between Team 1 and Team 2 does nothing. An ENY limit of 2.1 doesn't affect ANYTHING in the current planeset.
So basically Team 2 has a 1.5X advantage over Team 1 without a limit of any kind.
Using your own example again -
If you half all the number of players for all three sides, you come out with exactly the same end figures.
So
T1 100
T2 150
T3 200
results in exactly the same limits as
T1 200
T2 300
T3 400
Therefore same limit applies for 100 v 200 as 200 v 400.
As I said in a way it makes sense to me, but 200 extra players should really result in a heavier limit than 100 extra. Its the drawback to using percentages.
Don't get me wrong I think the whole ENY thing was a great idea, I think I just preferred it when it kicked in earlier but was less severe.