Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: mechanic on October 09, 2005, 09:51:44 PM
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See Rule #7, #5
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See Rule #7
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not at all, if you stopped thinking the whole world want ed your blood and just watched THIS ----> http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/longrange1.wmv
you would see the your call or BS is not fair.
that is all.
forget the ah film watch this link, will only take 2 mins. tell me that amount of fire right into the cockpit wouldnt kill you.
i post it openly because people deserve to see evidence of long range gunnery soing damage.
how come you dont complain that your tailgun rounds hit me from the same range???
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watch it come on, you can clearly see about 50 hits in the canpopy and left wing root and engine area. it was a high on killshot, not BS in my opinion.
edit: just look, theres no doubt you would die. note the ranges left on the screens.
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/longrange.JPG)
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Originally posted by mechanic
how come you dont complain that your tailgun rounds hit me from the same range???
I only shot you about 3-4 times with the tail gun while on autopilot completely leveled out. It is crap jsut like a few days ago when I got damage from a B17 from more then 1k away. Balistics seems off. In flight a guns dont shoot strait. The vibration of the engine and guns throw the aim off. And the dispersion at 800yds is going to be pretty big. Bat theres no skill involved when shooting 50cals. Iv shot people down from 800-1k many times with them and each time even I called BS. And I said before I dont need to watch it I was looking behind me when you where shooting and I watched the tracers hit me. Me N7 and storch were going to the MA after that sortie anyways. I really just dont think the P38G should be in this setup. Then spitIX and hang with all our planes and the only ones that almost turn it is the 110 and F4 adding the P38 just screwed us over, because now in a fight there are planes that we cant out turn or out run flying around. I dont even know why I even flew that sortie I told myself I wasnt going to fly a fighter untill the new setup. And that was my last fighter sortie for this setup. Ill take my chances in the Ju88, but even that thing is lighting up like a zeke from 1-2 cannon hits.
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I recall not to long ago when a certain F2M did the same thing to me;)
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guys, honestly, 800yrds is really not that far when your target has a 16.5M wingspan and from nose to tail is close to 13M.
you shoot from 800 yrds at a 15M target target with a heavy MG on thr ground you will hit it at least some.
in my mind if you hurl over 500 rounds of MG fire over 800yrds at a target 16MX13M you are likely to have a reasonable chance of hitting, and if you shoot good enough and concentrate fire....
Truekill you're saying 'i dont need to watch the film' you should. it shows slow-mo of about 50 hits to cockpit and wings. at the time fo the killshot..
anyhow i display my evidence and rest my case. out.
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I have to disagree
800 yard hit is bogus, 800 yard kills are arcade stuff
800 yards = 2400 feet - almost half a mile
mile = 5280ft, 1/2 = 2640
maybe a 800 yard hit on a bomber if you stay back and lob a shot in but against an agile fighter... nah, dont think it happened much in rl
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yup gamey stuff
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http://garytakahashi.md/braden/NastyMeds.wmv
All im gonna say.
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Originally posted by Treize69
http://garytakahashi.md/braden/NastyMeds.wmv
All im gonna say.
sure is nice shooting but it is irrelevent to the topic. that is a stationary shot with optics.
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:yawn
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Originally posted by Treize69
http://garytakahashi.md/braden/NastyMeds.wmv
All im gonna say.
Im guessing that, that was a M82 50cal semi auto sniper rifle. That is a single shot wepon on the ground not a full auto MG flying around. And to compare the two is just plain stupid.
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Bat Im not saying anything about how you aimed is BS any one can hit with 50cals at 800+yrds. What Im saying is what storch and eagler said its to gamey. Here are some screen shots of the target at 1100yrds. With jsut alittle pull of the stick and aiming alittle bit higher then the bullseye you can hit it with no trouble.This shows you the dispersion of the 50cals and 20mm on that P38 at 1100yrds
First the 50cals
(http://www.geocities.com/linkafi/50cal.bmp)
Now the 20mms
(http://www.geocities.com/linkafi/20mm.bmp)
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If one bullet at long range can pulverize a chunk of rock or liquefy an animal, what do you expect when 4 fully automatic weapons firing the same basic cartridge are hitting a glass canopy? :huh
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Originally posted by Treize69
If one bullet at long range can pulverize a chunk of rock or liquefy an animal, what do you expect when 4 fully automatic weapons firing the same basic cartridge are hitting a glass canopy? :huh
Do you get what my piont is? Full auto, engines, flying in the air all those cause movment and vibration thus the dispersion is going to be big and dont forget the M82 has a 10x scope for aiming. I never said anything about the hiting power of the 50cal. Im saying that hiting some thing in a six dimensional atmosphere at almost half a mile that much is gamey. So instead of looking up videos of sniper rifles go look up AARs from WW2 and find some that say 800yd kill then Ill beleave it.
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It didn't happen much in reality, but it did happen. Beurling shot a Bf109 down with a short burst of 20mm fire from a Spit V at 800 yards.
However, Beurling was known to fire the 20mm Hispano on the ground repeatedly just to studdy it's long range ballistics so he would have a better chance of hitting at range. Beurling was also kind of nuts, no offense Canucks.
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Originally posted by Karnak
It didn't happen much in reality, but it did happen.
I'm with Eagler and Truekill, for once. While it could happen, and maybe it even did happen, it happened so rarely that it's odd to see it here.
Widewing has often provided the USAAF test results on .50 dispersion at long ranges. To the best of my (admittedly poor) recollection, we're talking really big groups here.
Perhaps more important, pilots in WWII - maybe excepting Beurling - didn't even consider firing that far away. It's not something to be encouraged here.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I'm with Eagler and Truekill, for once. While it could happen, and maybe it even did happen, it happened so rarely that it's odd to see it here.
......
- oldman
which backs up my point here.
it is good medling, it happens very very rarely, and when it does happen, we should say 'good shot, luckly shot' whatever, not gamey BS.
if it 'could' happen in real life, then why are we saying it should never happen here?
that guy who shot the 109 at 800 yrds, you say he has practice with the 20mm hispanio balistics.
well i figure we could have more experience using the virtual equivilants here and therefore should be able to make similar shots.
what happens to the noob who comes in, gets a great kill at 700yrds gets shouted at and told hes a gamey little cheater.
its possible and it takes good judgment and steady aim, its not gamey if you can show a screen shot or a film clearly displaying the hit sprites all over the cockpit and canopy.
i bet most of you didnt take the 5 mins it takes to watch both links, but hey, i value and respect each opinion also, im not trying to win anyone over, just expresing something i think about.
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As a counterpoint to my earlier statement I seem to recall a description of a fight Saburo Sakai was in with some Hellcats and the Hellcat pilots were firing at him from 500+ yards away. Sakai was mentally encouraging them to keep doing so and wasting their ammo. He didn't seem to think he was in any danger, but unlike the Bf109 Beurling shot down, Sakai was manuvering.
In AH2 I never fire at those kinds of ranges unless it is a "Hey dummy, I'm here, let's fight!" type of shot. I prefer under 300 yards. Under 200 if I can get it.
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Granted a flying target will be very difficult to hit at 800...but if you are on autopilot and he holds the trigger im sure he will land a large amount of strikes. On the ground a monted 50cal is accurate up to around 1500m
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Originally posted by jamusta
On the ground a monted 50cal is accurate up to around 1500m
hitting from a metric mile with the naked eye? probably not as that is close to a mile - (approximately 0.932 057 statute mile or 4921.26 feet)
hitting what size target?
so we found one rl case of a long distance shoot down ... anymore?
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shooting over 800 yrds at a target that is 16.5M by 13M is about as hard as shooting a person at 800yrds with a rifle i imagine. but with practice and lead estimation it is not impossible, and not always a stupid game thing.
man, we did 400M range un-scoped with the cadet SA80 rifle and scored hits on a 30 inch bullzeye and achieved reasonable grouping.
its just too easy in AH because we practice too much.
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Originally posted by Larry
This shows you the dispersion of the 50cals and 20mm on that P38 at 1100yrds...
The dispersion issues has been discussed much in the Aircraft and Vechiles -forum. Butch2k has given the RL dispersion values (75%) for P-38 as 4 mils for M2 and 3 mils for Hispano. 100% dispersion was 8 mils.
The radius of the inner circle of the target is 10 feet which equals 3mils at 1100 yards. The second circle equals thus 6mils. So the AH dispersion seems to be quite allright.
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Originally posted by mechanic
shooting over 800 yrds at a target that is 16.5M by 13M is about as hard as shooting a person at 800yrds with a rifle i imagine. but with practice and lead estimation it is not impossible, and not always a stupid game thing.
man, we did 400M range un-scoped with the cadet SA80 rifle and scored hits on a 30 inch bullzeye and achieved reasonable grouping.
its just too easy in AH because we practice too much.
almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?
I would like to see that
ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah
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Originally posted by Eagler
almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?
I would like to see that
ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah
eagler that would be 8 football fields. friends, I'm a fairly good shot and I have good quality equipment to shoot with. the very longest shot I ever made was a little over 300yds on a 8 point white tail across a cornfield on a cold day in November with a ruger mk77 scoped with a 3x9 leupold variXII. my rifle was supported by my back pack and I was able to shoot from the prone position. It was a good lung shot shot, the animal ran a bit then dropped. I wouldn't have attempted a shot at any greater distance.
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Im calling PETA:furious
hhmm Oct already. Open season on Bambi next month:aok
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Naw Id rather go hit some doves. Or those pesky wabbets.
:O hahaha that looks funny
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yep, 8 football fields - even more highly unlikely
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Originally posted by Eagler
almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?
I would like to see that
ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah
thats exactly it! AAAAAAAAARGH why dont people pay attention.
the target was flying level and constant. its wasnt evading me.
dont worry, we will agree to disagree.
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have you even considered the equation if the end of the 8th football pitch was coming towards you at 450mph, and you yourself are doing 350+mph?
grasping simple physics here.
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ok then - good shot !! :)
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In the Marine Corps when qualifying we shot 4 foot targets in an usupported prone at 500 with m16 no scope its quite simple. The army longest distance is 300 but the target is smaller. I can barely see the stupid pop up. Oh the vehicle we shot 50cal at was a m113 not very large.
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Originally posted by Slash27
hhmm Oct already. Open season on Bambi next month:aok
Mmmmmm, Bambi.
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Originally posted by storch
the very longest shot I ever made was a little over 300yds on a 8 point white tail across a cornfield on a cold day in November with a ruger mk77 scoped with a 3x9 leupold variXII.
see, if you used this.. it would have been an easy blow it's head clean off shot... http://www.auroratactical.com/m600.htm
Facts on .50 Caliber Sniper Rifles
http://www.vpc.org/50caliber.htm
.50 Caliber Sniper Rifles were designed to attack parked or landing aircraft, armored personnel carriers, rail tank cars, bulk fuel storage, and concrete bunkers.
.50 Caliber sniper rifles are powerful enough to puncture armored limousines and can be used as tools for assassination.
.50 Caliber Sniper Rifles have effective ranges up to 2,000 yards, or in other words, 20 football fields laid end to end. Deer hunters generally shoot at ranges of 150 to 200 yards.
.50 Caliber ammunition is the largest round available on the civilian market and highly destructive armor-piercing, incendiary, and explosive rounds are easily available.
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why would i need a .50? my 30.06 is plenty for the hunting i do or will ever do. mounting limo grills over the fire place just seems a little over the top to me.
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well seeing as i dont get allowed a gun in this country the main hunting i do is with virtual 50cals in the skies.
so yes, i need a 50cal, or preferably 20mm hispanio.
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Found this on the web after a quick search. Supports the 1000 yard shots.
"My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away."
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Found this on the web after a quick search. Supports the 1000 yard shots.
"My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away."
I went fishing last night and I hooked a tarpon this big but he got away.
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well seeing as i dont get allowed a gun in this country the main hunting i do is with virtual 50cals in the skies.
so yes, i need a 50cal, or preferably 20mm hispanio.
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You can't even own a gun for trap or skeet shooting?
We should all be greatful for the 2nd Amendment:aok
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yup but at least only the idiots and criminals here have guns........er....hang on..:huh
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drr gunz r fun thay mak big booom:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by storch
I went fishing last night and I hooked a tarpon this big but he got away.
And your point being? It doesn't agree with your position so it must be a lie?
Or are you just restating the old adage about "All fisherman are liars."
Congratulations on the Tarpon, too bad he got away so you have no proof.
Cheers