Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: kevykev56 on October 17, 2005, 12:26:57 AM
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Saturday night. Was my wife and I alone in the house. My 18 year old daughter was off with her school for the weekend at an event. My 17 year old son, spending the night with the "band" for a practice session.
1 AM, sitting reading this BBS after finishing up AH. I hear something in the back of the house. Wife is in bed, I can see down the hallway, she hasnt left the room. Its quiet in the house. I hear the noise again. I get up to investigate, I walk down the hall, "is it my daughters room or sons room?" as I pass my sons room I hear a thud....adrenaline starts pumping like never before. I swiftly move back to the computer room and open the gun case.
At this moment I made a life or death decision. I decided against grabbing the gun.
Again I swiftly move back to sons room. Very charged up and the lights out I kick open the door. I see two silouets in the room, closest one smaller than the second. I immediatley grab the first one and sling him through the doors and into the closet, I charged past him and went for the second intruder who is still half in and out of the window. I grab him into a headlock and start to wring his neck. Thats when my senses came somewhat back and I heard my son in the closet screaming DAD!!!
He had been kicked out of the band members house where he was staying. The parents didnt approve of the late night session when they arrived home. He had left his key and didnt want to wake up mom and dad. Well, that was his story, but after more investigation he was up to no good and didnt want Dad to find out.
Needless to say I was so angry and fired up that I am still thinking of taking up smoking to calm myself down. Just typing this makes my hands shake 2 days later. I could just as easily grabbed the gun and fired away. Thats the part that scares me the most. The other side of the coin is...it just as easily could have been a real intruder that would have been armed.
I have been trying to decide If I made the right decision in not grabbing the gun, maybe the sound of a 12Gauge cycling as they came throught the window would have been more intimidating than a 285lb man charging headlong at them. But would I have pulled the trigger?...all these things just eat away at me now.
The real problem at hand is my son, getting him straightened out is my biggest concern. I am absolutely POSITIVE that he will NEVER make that same mistake again, nor will his friend. I doubt he will be with the "Band" until after he is 18 and moved out of my house.
Was not picking up the shotgun I have kept for defense of my home for the last 15 years the right decision? I doubt I will ever be sure. But I know this...if anyone ever comes through a window in my house again I can be positive It will not be my son, so the shotgun will come out of the cabinet.
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Make sure you know the identity of what you are shooting at.
I know its a freaky concept, might even get you killed, but living with yourself after having accidently killed a loved one really must not be worth the regret.
Identify your target before opening fire.
I recall the story of the father who, having come home from work unusually - during lunch, heard an intruder bumbling around in his closet. In a moment of absolute poor judgement, the man fired his pistol into the closet. He spent the next several minutes cradling his dying daughter in his arms, who exclaiming her profound regret at skipping school and coming home for lunch, had opted to hide in the closet to evade her fathers rath. The last thing she told her father was that she loved him and was sorry.....
Just make sure you know what you are shooting at and you should be ok.
Sounds like you did ok. Close call though.......
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One of my old bosses blew away his daughter in a scene just like that.
Curious, though... If you didn't grab the gun for what you thought was an intruder, for what occasion are you saving it for?
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Training.
Always, always illuminate and identify.
Glad it worked out ok......
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Training.
Always, always illuminate and identify.
Glad it worked out ok......
Exactly, that’s why next to my gun I have big MAG-LITE.
Always ID target.
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Originally posted by Nash
One of my old bosses blew away his daughter in a scene just like that.
Curious, though... If you didn't grab the gun for what you thought was an intruder, for what occasion are you saving it for?
My only answer to that is I must have ratonalized that it "could" be my son.
Again I have never felt anything like the adrenaline surge I had at that moment. I completly understand knowing your target before firing but in that moment when your emotinally charged I cannot say for positive I would have identifyied the target first.
After hunting deer for years I no longer get the rush when that buck pops out into gun or bow range. This feeling was much like the buck fever I felt with my first few deer, only MUCH more intense.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Just typing this makes my hands shake 2 days later. I could just as easily grabbed the gun and fired away. Thats the part that scares me the most.
That's one of the worrying things about G4A - in the haste with which one needs to react to a perceived threat, it would be so easy for the wrong person to get shot. This story had a relatively happy ending; I'm sure there must be hundreds where it's gone the other way. :(
Kev, you said there were two other people in the room, one of whom was your son. Who was the other? If the key had been left behind, how did they get in?
I'm not so naive to believe I'll never have a visitation from a burglar, which is why I very rarely leave downstairs windows open. My downstairs bathroom window is permanently locked shut, and all outside doors and windows are locked at night. There are three movement sensitive floodlights at points around the house. I have a burglar alarm, but I don't use it. I'd like to have a camera positioned at the front door so I could see who's there before opening the door.
So it surprises me that you apparently take none of these precautions, instead trusting everything to a gun. I'm glad you've been able to see what a disastrous outcome could have resulted from this stance.
Oh, and please do not take up smoking. It makes your clothes smell.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Again I have never felt anything like the adrenaline surge I had at that moment.
Was once I was downstairs at the computer and heard this ruccus upstairs. Scared the bejeezus out of me so bad that, without thinking, I grabbed the monitor and pulled it clean out of the wall/computer and ran upstairs with it... expecting to, I don't know, throw it at someone.
I'd left the sliding door open, and the wind blew over a bunch of stuff. Meanwhile I had destroyed my computer. It was ridiculous, what I did. Like you said - pure adrenaline at work.
I felt like a dork.... but there's something tangible about the realization (real or not) that someone has entered your house that's impossible to explain, and impossible to actually know unless you've felt it.
I thought about getting a gun after that. Not because I expected any big threat.... but because of the useless feeling I had running up those stairs.
I've met a couple of people who regret buying a gun. I've never met a single person who regrets not having bought one. Not like I put a huge amount of thought into it... but I never ended up buying one.
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I dont know any more of the situation than what you described, but its a proven fact that our brains process most of the information running through them without it being a concious thing. Is your son's room the most logical place for an intruder to enter the house? A dangerous one anyway? If not, and given your "it could have been my son" doubt, its very possible your mind was telling you something doesnt add up and you chose not to use the gun. In close quarters like that, a gun can sometimes be a detriment. To truly be effective you need some amount of separation, to prevent being overpowered and having the gun taken away from you. So either way, its likely you made the right choice. If you had taken the gun, then I agree with what has already been said. You never, ever fire a gun without knowing exactly what you are shooting at and whats behind it. Especially in the house.
I think you did exactly the right thing, and NOT picking up the gun showed remarkable restraint. Having a gun requires presence of mind and a sense of responsibility. You demonstrated you have both. Dont second guess yourself.
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one of the best first alerts to an intruder is a good dog. A good dog, like the chow chow that recently bit my face off :eek:
I have always worried about shooting a loved one by mistake. I have guns, but don't keep them loaded under my pillow or anything like that.
Pretty scary story.....glad it turned out okay.
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A Stinger XT (http://www.streamlight.com/stinger-series_specifications.htm) sits in my pistol safe. If I'm grabbing one, I'm grabbing the other.
The button is on the butt end of the light, so you never have to fumble to figure out which side of the light it's on. Pricey, but rechargeable, and one of the best flashlights I've ever used.
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yup. intrusion invokes mans deepest instinctual reactions. We need to channel that..
Training. Gives you an opportunity to make better choices via experience.
You've just had the most outstanding and effective training experience of your life... take advantage of the kick-in-the-ass jumpstart, visit a range (it'll calm your nerves) and work out your guick reaction plan.
Stuff like weapon location, load, notification (wife, police), advance, evaluate, illuminate, identify, communicate...
You da man; yah done good. No reason yah can't improve the odds by doin even better the next time... because if you fire that weapon, even in your own house and ANYBODY goes down, your life is gonna be forever changed unless you did things just right.
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Originally posted by Nash
Was once I was downstairs at the computer and heard this ruccus upstairs. Scared the bejeezus out of me so bad that, without thinking, I grabbed the monitor and pulled it clean out of the wall/computer and ran upstairs with it... expecting to, I don't know, throw it at someone.
That's pretty funny, and it's cool that you have the guts to post it.....one of the things I've always liked about you.
Isn't it strange to think that, even though you were scared, you still ran upstairs to confront whatever/whoever was there?
Personally, a dog and a baseball bat are pretty much my first lines of defense. It would take a hell of a lot for me to go grab my gun.
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The idea of practicing a quick reaction plan is a good suggestion.
I have a basic plan that involves disengagement and immediate security, then finding a phone first at dialing 911 (999 here in the UK) before I attempt any sort of contact. If I'm not already near a firearm, my first go-to item is the phone. I can use the few seconds spent dialing 911 to go over any escape or confrontation plan so I'm not rushing into a confrontation while half asleep or confused.
As for my confrontation plan, there are a few steps I would plan on taking.
Before all of this, my primary plan is avoidance/disengagement and call 911. Then I would try to go with this general basic plan. Obviously if they were actively assaulting someone in the house, the priorities would shift some but at least dialing 911 should still be done prior to the confrontation if at all possible.
1. Locate all intruders if possible, and if they're moving wait until they're in an area that gives them no cover, no escape, and at least 10 ft distance between me and them.
2. Instant illumination of the situation. Their eyes may be better adapted to darkness than mine and you can't be sure you know where everyone is but they'll know right where you are, so might as well turn on the lights.
3. Assess number, size, ID, and weaponry of intruders.
4. Shout something suitably heroic such as "freeze or I will shoot"
5. If I see ANY weaponry or they make any steps in my direction, go 2 to the body and 1 to the head until they're down.
Having a phone by the bed is just as important as any weapons you choose to keep available. If they're ransacking another room but haven't entered your room or don't know that you're there, might as well sit tight and give the cops some time to show up, especially if there are other family members in the house that may not be able to defend themselves. But even if there is an assult in progress, at least dialing 911 and shouting something about them killing your wife and then putting down the phone (don't hang up!) is better than not calling at all, and it only takes a few seconds.
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My daughter got a chance to look down the end of my shotgun barrel one night at 3:00 am. She made an unscheduled change of plans late night and didn't let us know.
She made just a smidge too much noise coming in, was rooting around in the kitchen looking for food when I flicked the light on and racked the action.
Needless to say we both got scared a bit. Her more than me I think.
ALWAYS be sure of your target before shooting.
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I'm just gonna say thank goodness this weekend didn't turn tragic for Kev and leave it at that.
....except to say "Nuke...baseball bat? You should try a cricket bat. You can use the flat side to get your point across and not cause excessive damage, or turn that bad boy around and use the edged side to add some hurt. I can send you one if you can't find it there.";)
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Originally posted by kevykev56
My only answer to that is I must have ratonalized that it "could" be my son.
Again I have never felt anything like the adrenaline surge I had at that moment. I completly understand knowing your target before firing but in that moment when your emotinally charged I cannot say for positive I would have identifyied the target first.
After hunting deer for years I no longer get the rush when that buck pops out into gun or bow range. This feeling was much like the buck fever I felt with my first few deer, only MUCH more intense.
That surge can become addictive. It is usually more then adrenaline! Dopamine can also be within the mix. As well as some other body chemicals. Your body creates some powerfull chemicals under certain situations. If Dopamine was mixed in you probably felt no soreness or pain for as much as 3 days afterward and when it wears off a muscle or something can start bothering you and you can find yourself wondering why because you can't remember doing anything recently to cause it.
Police Officers can expierance it, military personal can expierance it, along with some other professions. It can be VERY dangerous to them and any people around/near them!
In Japan they eat raw Pacific Puffer fish (highly posionus) to get a similar surge.
Colors seem brighter, smells sharper, sense of touch more sensitive, etc. accompanied by a euphoric type feeling. The theroy being one is never so much alive as when one knows they are about to die.
Some people should NEVER take up sky diving because they will wait each time they exit the plane just a little longer before opening thier chute trying for that high.
Some people will drive cars or ride motorcycles in such a manner that they create that surge within themselves.
Fairly recent studies (within the last 20 years I believe) showed that some people that ran several miles every day had become addicted to thier own body chemicals. It shows up when for some reason they can't run. They appeared to go through heroin like withdrawls.
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Originally posted by NUKE
one of the best first alerts to an intruder is a good dog. A good dog, like the chow chow that recently bit my face off :eek:
I have always worried about shooting a loved one by mistake. I have guns, but don't keep them loaded under my pillow or anything like that.
Pretty scary story.....glad it turned out okay.
Bingo. Less expensive then an alarm system. You never have to remember to turn it on, and can identify friend from foe. Or at least identify known from unknown.
LOL I have a dog that will bark at me moving in the house in the middle of the night untill I tell him to shut up.
But he wont shut up for just anyone.
It was 6 months before he would let my father in law come in the house without us there telling him to mellow out.
so I know if someone ever breaks int my house and he doesnt keep barking. Its someone I know.. very,very well.
Kev, Glad things worked out for ya.
amazing what gut instincts we can have sometimes
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first off... I have met lots of people who say that buying a gun was the best thing they ever did... I have also met a few who reggreted that they didn't have one.
Kev... not to get too personal but... I think you knew in the back of your mind it was your son. My daughter and her friends caused me a lot of grief when she was living with me... I allways confront intruders armed. My 1911 has a clip and it can be held in the small of my back very easily... or.. with a revolver I just hold it behind my back..
One of my daughters "friends" did break in. I showed her the gun behind my back and told her that she was lucky to be alive.... She was so shook up she couldn't even lie well for a minute or two... I told her to get out and not come back because I didn't know her anymore.
lazs
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I bet your son would have been pished off if you would have shot him. My suggestion would be to get a dog. OR get the gun and get good position behind a wall. when the "intruder" comes out of the room identify them. If it is a stranger shoot, if it is your son don't shoot unless you don't like your son. :D
PS i can imagine lazs showing some young girl his gun and saying "you're lucky to be alive, now get the hell out" :rofl :rofl :aok
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yep
I think you should have grabbed your gun. Why else do you have it?
Thank goodness it was just your son - in another scenerio, your family would be wondering why you didn't grab your gun as they lowered you into the ground...
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I think it was more like "you allmost got your bellybutton shot off... you are lucky to be alive"
And... she was old enough to know better... many here would say that she was good enough to vote or fight in a war.... equal... right?
lazs
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Wow..what if it wasnt your son, but a couple of burly mfs. That hallway back to your shotgun may as well been a mile long.
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Originally posted by eagl
1. Locate all intruders if possible, and if they're moving wait until they're in an area that gives them no cover, no escape, and at least 10 ft distance between me and them.
2. Instant illumination of the situation. Their eyes may be better adapted to darkness than mine and you can't be sure you know where everyone is but they'll know right where you are, so might as well turn on the lights.
3. Assess number, size, ID, and weaponry of intruders.
4. Shout something suitably heroic such as "freeze or I will shoot"
5. If I see ANY weaponry or they make any steps in my direction, go 2 to the body and 1 to the head until they're down.
Funny how with all the "expert" manly advice being meted out, no-one (except me) has suggested... - 0. Try locking the damn doors at night
:rolleyes:
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WTG for using your head with age does come wisdom LOL.
All joking aside what you did is the ultimate for of gun control.
If everyone would do like you did fewer family members would be killed in there homes.
I commend you for having the courage for NOT grabin yer gun and come out a shootin:O
You took a big risk that they were not some punks that might have been armed whew Im glad I dont have kids in times like these.
Good job Oh ya might wanna tell your son to use the door next time :confused:
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Originally posted by lazs2
One of my daughters "friends" did break in. I showed her the gun behind my back and told her that she was lucky to be alive.... She was so shook up she couldn't even lie well for a minute or two... I told her to get out and not come back because I didn't know her anymore.
lazs
Had the same damn problem.. my daughters scum of the earth 'friends' stopping by to help themselves to our or her property. The third time this happened I was home and unarmed, still had to go thru a most uncomfortable session with the local police when it was all over. Kid was in the hospital.
I can't imagine how bad it would a been if I'd a plugged the little bastard... on the other hand if I'd a been armed the little salamander would likely not have gotten a well deserved beating and instead just gotten a ride to the police station.. and I would have probably had my weapon confiscated for some BS paper or proceedural oversight. As it was, it still cost me 2 grand in lawyers fees to lump the bastard up.
Only good thing about it.. The vandalism and petty theft stopped instantly.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Funny how with all the "expert" manly advice being meted out, no-one (except me) has suggested... - 0. Try locking the damn doors at night
:rolleyes: [/B]
lol...I think you meant window though.
Anyway, when I get home tonight the training begins.
We will have ERPs (Emergency Response Protocols) established for any eventuality. I think to make it easier we will set up an acronym so that the kids will be able to remember it easily....would be handy for me too, that way I can remember what to do for each potential situation without having to resort to "looking it up" and I will be able to react without my testosterone over-riding my logic.. I will be a finely trained defender of my castle. I shall not waiver. I am strong!!! We are the few...the proud...the Curval Family!
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Only good thing about it.. The vandalism and petty theft stopped instantly.
I'd call it money well spent then :aok
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Originally posted by megadud
..and get good position behind a wall.
No more hollywood for you. Couches, walls and coffee tables do not stop bullets.
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Originally posted by indy007
I'd call it money well spent then :aok
Would rather have spent it on her college, car and clothes instead of having to file counter charges to get the little bastards parents off my back. Still your right, turned out ok; last I heard the little salamander wound up in Rehab and eventually got his act together.
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Beetle,
I'm not sure if you were serious or trying to be funny but my doors and windows were all locked this last Friday when my house was broken into and looted. They forced 2 small windows open and damaged a few other windows and doors before they finally found one door they could rip entirely out of the wall to gain entry.
The point of course is that a determined burglar is going to get in unless you take obscene and expensive measures to turn the house into a fortress, and even then all you're really going to do is slow them down. The question is how much money do you have to spend before you've slowed them down enough to be a real deterrent?
And that doesn't cover other "human factors" issues such as overly complicated locks and alarms that may get set improperly, "inside jobs" where you are betrayed by people you trust, or crooks getting tipped off by people you don't trust but with who you must share at least some vulnerability data (such as movers, electricians/plumbers, etc).
The fact remains that burglars feel free to attempt to enter almost any house, and very few houses can be made secure enough to completely resist or deter a thief who has nothing to lose and does not fear getting caught. A thief in the UK risks little from the occupant or owner other than a good scolding, so there is little deterrent. A neighbor of mine caught someone trying to enter his house and the thief felt so secure that he stuck around for quite a while to shout obscenities and threaten to burn the place down. Further into Cambridge, thiefs have children climb security fences so they can be unlocked or compromised from inside, and there is apparently not much penalty for exploiting children like that. So it only makes sense to have a plan for what happens after an intruder gets into the house.
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What I was taught in the NRA safety class was to identify the target, and also evaluate the threat. My interpretation of that would be to get some distance from the intruder, use my light to identify and then verbally command them to get out. If they go bug-eyed and have that "oh, crap!" look, drop whatever it is they're holding and turn tail running out of my house I have no right to shoot. If they go the other route and come at me or loved ones despite "instruction" otherwise then they deserve to be stopped. I'm aware that how things REALLY pan out during an acutal situation will vary - Mr. Murphy be danged, "no plan survives first contact." Some sort of early warning system like a perimeter alarm or a dog would be a great part of a security plan. You'd get at least a few seconds audible warning (maybe even visual if you have exterior motion detector lights) via bark or alarm to wake up and start your plan.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
No more hollywood for you. Couches, walls and coffee tables do not stop bullets.
:lol :lol
i know but if the intruder didn't see him then he can identify the intruder before ithe intruder does see him. then it comes down to reflexes. does it take longer for our ace to shoot a loaded gun pointing at an intruder or an intruder to notice our ace point his gun in the right position and fire. I would bet on our ace.
and don't forget
"Shoot him Kim!"
"BAM! 'crying'"
Shoot him again Kim!"
...BAM!
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It's TV sure but try watching "It Takes a Thief" on the discovery channel.
These guys if they want in, they get in to your average house. Even afterwards they show the importance of actually using your home alarm and security system.
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Originally posted by megadud
:lol :lol
i know but if the intruder didn't see him then he can identify the intruder before ithe intruder does see him. then it comes down to reflexes. does it take longer for our ace to shoot a loaded gun pointing at an intruder or an intruder to notice our ace point his gun in the right position and fire. I would bet on our ace.
and don't forget
"Shoot him Kim!"
"BAM! 'crying'"
Shoot him again Kim!"
...BAM!
put.... the... remote... DOWN.
now, slowly; back away from the television set.
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Golfer, caught a few episodes of that show... great stuff. Picked up some pointers and even sent the producers a note saying thanks for some useful programing.
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Eagl,
I'm sorry you've suffered this trauma of being burgled. Not pleasant.
However, I read your hypothesis of a burglary...Originally posted by eagl
I'm not sure if you were serious or trying to be funny but my doors and windows were all locked this last Friday when my house was broken into and looted. They forced 2 small windows open and damaged a few other windows and doors before they finally found one door they could rip entirely out of the wall to gain entry.
The point of course is that a determined burglar is going to get in unless you take obscene and expensive measures to turn the house into a fortress, and even then all you're really going to do is slow them down. The question is how much money do you have to spend before you've slowed them down enough to be a real deterrent?
...and frankly, I don't find it especially plausible. If you're not present when your house is being burgled, then having a gun isn't going to make one jot of difference. If, however, you're suggesting that the above scenario plays out with the house occupants present, with burglars forcibly gaining entry, it begs the question as to why the occupants did nothing to stop them. If they were trying different windows to gain entry, and then went on to rip another door right out of the wall, the whole thing would have lasted quite some time, and they would have created a lot of noise - plenty of noise to alert the occupants, who would have had enough time to get to where they were and shout "Oi" - at which point the burglars would have buggered off. Nashwan described exactly this scenario, where he startled some burglars, and they did indeed bugger off.
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FBI: Violent crime rate declines again (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/17/crime.rate/index.html)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. violent crime rate declined 2.2 percent last year, continuing a decade-long downward trend in serious offenses, the FBI said Monday.
All major categories of violent crime in the United States declined in 2004, bringing the rates of the most serious offenses, including murders, rapes, robberies and assaults, to a level 32 percent lower than those reported in 1995, the new figures show.
The rate of property crimes -- such as burglary, larceny and auto theft -- declined 2.1 percent as well last year.
No doubt the primary cause of the decline is the increasing use of a well-timed "Oi!" by the victims. Very few criminals have been able to withstand a single "Oi!" and multiple shouts of "Oi!" have caused some career criminals to surrender themselves at the local police station.
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Maybe Toad...but before you suggest that it was gun laws relaxation (which it couldn't be based upon the moaning about tightening those laws I see here regularly) the article states:
"The annual report offers no reasons for the trends, but the exhaustive statistical data provides criminologists and academics with raw material to examine."
Come to think of it, perhaps the tightening of those laws actually resulted in the decrease...no? NAH!!!!
...and before lazs drops all the reason for the crime that did take place on the black population:
"The report said the number of murder victims and the total of suspects were both nearly equally divided by race. Most suspects were adult men using firearms, and about one in five murder victims was female."
Also, there is some bad news:
"The only category of violent crime in which the number of incidents rose was forcible rapes -- to 94,635 in 2004 from 93,883 in 2003, an increase of 0.8 percent. But accounting for an increase in population, the rate of forcible rapes dropped 0.2 percent."
LOL...talk about twisting stats...the rate actually dropped if you take into consideration an increase in population...are there many people committing forceable rapes under the age of 1 in the US? I don't think so.
Toodles.
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Read most of te posts so I if I missed one I appologise.
All stories are about a father that killeld or almost killed a loved one. Non, about how a gun saved your life. And I do mean your life, not your VCR. Do you guys understand how stupid it is to have a gun in the house for protection? You almost killed your son because you wanted to protect your VCR? What is it about Americans that the first thing the think of is, killing someone? Why not have a taser gun for deffence?
Why instead of going for the gun with the INTENT of killing the potential VCR/TV/Money thief, you call 911, make known that you know they are there adn the police is on the way, take your taser or BBBat (or even the gun) and lock yourself in the bead room? Is that not what a real man should do? A real man must kill someone? If that someone was trying to steal your car you would not think about killing him. Is it because he is in your property, and you think you can get away with killing him that makes you take the gun? Why confront them?
I'm sure people will come up with any possible excuse to have a gun. You are lucky you still have your son. Put an alarm system, get a dog, a taser gun, and a couple of cordless phones. Alternativly, if you guys are so afraid that need guns in order to sleep safelly at night, well, its time to move somewhere where there is not a war going on.
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not vcr's dedalos DvD pleyers!! :D
i don't want people stealing my stuff and i think they should die if they try, 1 less POS to deal with. Jail doesn't work, they got it better then most people who aren't criminals. i don't like guns because it could backfire and shoot me. I would have no problem shooting a man but i am old fashioned i would rather hang them or stone them, tar and feather whatever they want. How long would it take for a taser gun to kill a robber? I would tell the police i couldn't find the off switch or when i tased them the first time they went to get more stuff so i got them again. It's not the fact that we think our possesions are worth the risk of killing a loved one it's the fact that a robber should die for trying to rob. it's called a freakin job. if you are going to have a gun be careful with it.
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Originally posted by dedalos
If that someone was trying to steal your car you would not think about killing him. Is it because he is in your property, and you think you can get away with killing him that makes you take the gun? Why confront them?
If I'm in the car, and they try to steal it, they'll get shot. I drive my wonderful gas guzzling SUV with the windows up and the AC on full blast everywhere I go. My doors automatically lock when I turn the key. If anybody is trying to steal the car with me in it, they had to smashed their way in. If they're crazy enough to attack my car when I'm strapped inside, they're crazy enough to attack me to take the car. It gives me peace of mind to know I can answer their attack with 9mm fire instead of verbal abuse.
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Good lord Kev, glad to hear it turned out alright. I would be scared to have RHIN0 running at me though, I happen to believe (from seeing his picture and knowing his background) he would be a very scary foe, especially at night. His son (seen pictures) had no chance at all. Whatever no good they were up to means a big wallop across the face.
P.S. Any of you have German Shepards that have guard training? Precious until some guy decides to take a detour through your yard.......:(
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Originally posted by nirvana
Good lord Kev, glad to hear it turned out alright. I would be scared to have RHIN0 running at me though, I happen to believe (from seeing his picture and knowing his background) he would be a very scary foe, especially at night. His son (seen pictures) had no chance at all. Whatever no good they were up to means a big wallop across the face.
P.S. Any of you have German Shepards that have guard training? Precious until some guy decides to take a detour through your yard.......:(
Yes
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/242_1129589411_odindriveway.jpg)
:cool:
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Nice dog silat. Is it "properly" trained, or is he just mean? A properly trained guard dog of the right breed can pretty much be trusted to look after babies, but a poorly trained one is just an accident waiting to happen.
I was always impressed by a neighbor's golden retriever... Great with kids and it would protect any child it ever met and any adult he was formally introduced to. I don't know if it had any training other than basic obedience, but good breeding and a caring owner seems to make the difference between an intelligent protector and a dangerous brute.
One reason I don't have a dog is because I don't think I have the time or energy to be a "good" owner, and it wouldn't be fair to the dog or the neighbors.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Saturday night. Was my wife and I alone in the house. My 18 year old daughter was off with her school for the weekend at an event. My 17 year old son, spending the night with the "band" for a practice session.
1 AM, sitting reading this BBS after finishing up AH. I hear something in the back of the house. Wife is in bed, I can see down the hallway, she hasnt left the room. Its quiet in the house. I hear the noise again. I get up to investigate, I walk down the hall, "is it my daughters room or sons room?" as I pass my sons room I hear a thud....adrenaline starts pumping like never before. I swiftly move back to the computer room and open the gun case.
At this moment I made a life or death decision. I decided against grabbing the gun.
Again I swiftly move back to sons room. Very charged up and the lights out I kick open the door. I see two silouets in the room, closest one smaller than the second. I immediatley grab the first one and sling him through the doors and into the closet, I charged past him and went for the second intruder who is still half in and out of the window. I grab him into a headlock and start to wring his neck. Thats when my senses came somewhat back and I heard my son in the closet screaming DAD!!!
He had been kicked out of the band members house where he was staying. The parents didnt approve of the late night session when they arrived home. He had left his key and didnt want to wake up mom and dad. Well, that was his story, but after more investigation he was up to no good and didnt want Dad to find out.
Needless to say I was so angry and fired up that I am still thinking of taking up smoking to calm myself down. Just typing this makes my hands shake 2 days later. I could just as easily grabbed the gun and fired away. Thats the part that scares me the most. The other side of the coin is...it just as easily could have been a real intruder that would have been armed.
I have been trying to decide If I made the right decision in not grabbing the gun, maybe the sound of a 12Gauge cycling as they came throught the window would have been more intimidating than a 285lb man charging headlong at them. But would I have pulled the trigger?...all these things just eat away at me now.
The real problem at hand is my son, getting him straightened out is my biggest concern. I am absolutely POSITIVE that he will NEVER make that same mistake again, nor will his friend. I doubt he will be with the "Band" until after he is 18 and moved out of my house.
Was not picking up the shotgun I have kept for defense of my home for the last 15 years the right decision? I doubt I will ever be sure. But I know this...if anyone ever comes through a window in my house again I can be positive It will not be my son, so the shotgun will come out of the cabinet.
Picking up the gun doesn't obligate you to shoot someone. Not picking up the gun doesn't give you that option, though. Had it been an armed intruder, after he'd killed you and your wife, he may have gotten a decent price for your unfired shotgun.
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Thanks guys for all the constructive comments!
I would like to answer the few questions or comments people had.
Yes I have a dog, he is old and was asleep in the room with my wife. Dog is tired in his old age and doesnt bark at night anymore. I am a constant insomniac only sleeping on average 3 hours a night since birth. I guess Im the watch dog.
All my doors were locked, I had assumed the windows were locked as well. My son who has been having some issues of late with making bad decisions. He left it unlocked for just this reason. He knows there are firearms in the house and it never crossed his mind before he came through the window.
The second person was one of his friends.
Since I am awake almost all night and usually awake when my wife gets up that I dont feel a need for an alarm.
As far as range time, I have had lots. This year alone I have been though at least 10,000 rounds. And thats not counting the .22 There IMHO is no real training for this unless your an officer who has to experience this multiple times. I was USAF, not Army...lol.
I really am now starting to think It was the right choice. Maybe it was in the back of my mind it was my son. I now dont regret not taking the gun. I would rather sacrifice myself than take a family members life. Hindsight is always 20/20. This is one I am thankful I made what I now think was the right choice.
My training may be old school, it was grandpa's training when I was a kid. "Son, Never ever point a gun at anyone unless you plan on killing them." Yes its old school but has served me well so far. I feel I stuck to that training with this incident and still will follow his words. He had lots of Army training in France.
Dedalos, bottom line is I dont have a gun to protect my VCR. I have it to protect my family and our lives. Not just against home invasion there are more reasons than need to be discussed here. I dont want to turn this into a gun control thread that gets locked. It is about a choice that sometimes people have to make. I was looking for input on the choice I made and have appreciated all comments including yours Dedalos, thanks!
This night will have long lasting affects on my family. Mostly my son, his issues go deeper than just climbing through a window. I will be concentrating on him even more now to help him throught his troubles. I just need to get over mine so I can help him better. This thread has really helped me to start the process. Thanks to all!!
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Originally posted by Martlet
Picking up the gun doesn't obligate you to shoot someone. Not picking up the gun doesn't give you that option, though. Had it been an armed intruder, after he'd killed you and your wife, he may have gotten a decent price for your unfired shotgun.
No it doesnt obligate you, However I can now see how accidents of this nature happen. I never knew this emotion before saturday night. And I will be a bit more prepaired for it if it ever happens again.
Without the gun only my life and my wifes were at risk. I would rather risk those than either of my kids.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Would rather have spent it on her college, car and clothes instead of having to file counter charges to get the little bastards parents off my back.
See nows here's a very big part of the problem.
the Parents and this I no spankee you no spankee my kid BS.
In the old days had this happened Not only would Hangtime have beat the crap out of the kid. But after the kid got picked up by the parents at the cop shop or hospital and got home the Parents would have also beaten the crap out of the kid.
there wouldnt have been a lawsuit
Then again. There is a good chance this might not have happned to begin with because in the old days most kids wouldnt have done it to begin with Not because they might get caught and have the crap beat out of em by the homeowner, Not because they might gt arrested.
But because they were afraid of what their parents might do to them if they found out.
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Curval, I warn you sternly: "Oi!"
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See...a good "Oi" can work.
;-)
Good post Kev.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
No it doesnt obligate you, However I can now see how accidents of this nature happen. I never knew this emotion before saturday night. And I will be a bit more prepaired for it if it ever happens again.
Without the gun only my life and my wifes were at risk. I would rather risk those than either of my kids.
Your kids lives would only be at risk if you shoot when you aren't sure of your target. I guess if you don't trust your gun handling skills, you were right not to take it. Then again, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.
If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless. Sounds like a risk to me.
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"If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless. Sounds like a risk to me."
"Conjecture."
"Sustained."
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Originally posted by Martlet
Your kids lives would only be at risk if you shoot when you aren't sure of your target. I guess if you don't trust your gun handling skills, you were right not to take it. Then again, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.
If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless. Sounds like a risk to me.
Growing up parentless = Growing up
Better than not growing up at all.
Before Saturday night I was just as sure of my gun handling skills as you are today. I ask you, would you handle a gun while intoxicated? No you wouldnt im sure. Any sensable gun owner would not. I was somewhat impaired due to the emotinal state I was in.
Would I have made the right decision if I had pulled the gun out and charged into the room? I would like to think I would have. But unless you have ever felt the way I did at that moment you just dont know.
Do I think I Shouldnt own a firearm becasue I made a rational decision under duress to not pick it up becasue my actions and judgments could be impaired?
Well, I dont plan on chopping them up anytime soon.
Some of them are nice to look at and shoot, not all are for home defense :aok
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/kevykev/GunLineup005.jpg)
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The mosin Nagant 38 is for homedefense. It's a carbine with a hellofa bullet. Anything that isn't imploded when hit will be deaf and blind from the muzzle flash.
Kev, I have been thinking about this recently. A lot of people here say that they would take a flashlight along with a gun.
But I came to the conclusion that it would take major major balls, brass, cahones, however you want to say it to actually turn that light on.
Every single person here would want to keep the advantage in their own territory. Turning on the light would give away a lot of information and would be very confrontational. And you would have no idea where the confrontation would go.
While I don't think people would just start blasting away in the dark, I do think that very few people would actually hit the switch on the flashlight.
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Well, I've read through the entire thread and see several points that seem valid upon the surface, but are woefully inadequate in practice.
First, getting into a physical encounter in a dark room with zero information is, and I mean this with all due respect, a very bad choice. The single most dangerous factor is a total lack of knowledge of what you are dealing with. Indeed, with or without a firearm, this could lead to tragic consequences.
Since you have the advantage of being aware of intruders, and the intruders are unaware of your presence, you surrendered your edge when you kicked down the door. Had these been real criminals, and they were armed, you may very well be dead.
Let's assume these were dangerous criminals, not your son and his friend. You know where they are. With a firearm you can contain them, and keep them where they are, inasmuch as they cannot get loose inside your house.
First and foremost, you keep them isolated by making exiting the door into the hallway suicidal. Item number one is always "contain the threat". Second, you turn on the hall lights. It is absolutely essential that you be able to see the intruder and determine if they are strangers or family. As long as they remain the room, that doesn't matter. You have them confined. If they don't notice the lights going on, make sure they are aware that they cannot exit the room by announcing your presence and informing them of you intention to kill them should they attempt to exit the door. Position yourself to the strong side of the door, well beyond reach and preferably down below the normal line of sight. Since virtually all interior doors open inward, they must expose themselves to your line of sight to open the door, even a crack to see out. Your eyes have adjusted to the bright light, their eyes have not. That gives you another edge.
Now, all of the yelling and lights on will wake up the rest of the household. Have someone dial 911 while you keep these guys isolated. The odds are that they have already evacuated. Have your wife watch for the police, but tell her not to open the door until she has visual confirmation that its the cops at the front door and not the bad guys.
This scenario accomplishes the goals of:
A) Isolating the threat.
B) Neutralizing the threat.
C) Minimizing the risk to you and your family.
D) Being able to identify the threat as intruders or family (thus the absolute need to illuminate the area of likely confrontation).
E) If the intruders are family, you have not shot them and they will surely identify themselves when challenged.
F) You allowed the bad guy(s) a way out, thus greatly reducing the probability of a deadly confrontation.
G) Limited the loss or damage to one room and its contents.
H) Virtually guaranteed that they will never return.
Remember this also; being armed does not mean you must shoot. It means you have that option should the need arise. Being unarmed means being at extreme risk if the bad guys are armed. Defending against home invasions or night burglers is all about being reducing risks and maximizing your options. Sleep with bedroom doors closed and locked. Any obstacle is better than nothing. Lock all exterior doors. Don't leave windows open or even unlocked at night. Some windows have mechanical locks that allow the window to be partially opened. These are ok for bedrooms, where the racket required to defeat those locks will surely wake you. Don't depend on them in unoccupied rooms. Invest in a few window airconditioners if it's warm. The AC unit is a substantial obstacle. Leave a light on inside and outside. I have four motion sensing halogens that illuminate the property like the Sing Sing's yard should someone approach the house. Alarm systems have a place, but make sure you invest in panic button pads for all bedrooms. Rhino shoud get a second, more proactive dog.. There's nothing quite as useless as a useless dog. For added effect, invest in dummy video cameras and mount them outside so that it appears that all approaches to the home are covered (this is highly effective at getting your house ruled out by a casing burgler). If your house looks like serious thought has gone into security, the average thief will simply move on to a easier target.
Most burglers are opportunistic. Eliminate opportunities and you substantially eliminate the threat.
My regards,
Widewing
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You know, this thread has been fascinating to me, and that is without any sarcasm or cynicism. First, I don't have any problems with reasonable, responsible people owning guns. I've fired off enough .223, .38, .45, 12 gauge and even .50 cal rounds to understand the fun and/or 'testosterone' factor of it all.
The fascinating part is the mindset of fear. Fear and preparation for what seems like the inevitable invasion. The tactical and strategic defense systems of... your homes?
I've gotten completely out of that mindset and my situational awareness about my personal safety has fallen off the scale. I don't even think about it, except when I travel. In almost 15 years, I've never been in a situation where I've felt the adrenaline from fear of being in some neighborhood or situation where the fight-or-flee instinct has kicked in.
No wonder you guys are so high strung about everything. No wonder you're always ready to pick a fight and are confrontational about little things. It's like you're living in fear of your lives everyday. I suppose I would be the same way too, given the state of the societies you are in.
To me, that just sucks.
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Routine activities theory states that crime requires:
1) A motivated offender
2) A suitable target
3) Lack of a capable guardian
Remove any or all of these requirements and crime will not occur.
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Widewing, I enjoyed your post. Yes every point you made is true and valid. I do not take offense and yes it was dumb to go into the room without protection and going in blind to confront the situation.
I cant pick apart all my thoughts at that moment. Honestly it was less than a 20 second timeframe from first noise to bursting into the room. One reason I started this post is, I really had no clue why I chose to handle it the way I did.
I can sit back now and try and analyze it. Not sure at this point it helps. I can however learn from this situation and change the way I react if it ever happens again. This is an advantage I have that someone in a real intruder situation may not have.
Again I appreciate all good and bad comments. Yes I screwed up in some ways, In others I feel I handled it OK. The thing I did most right in this incident was scare the crap out of my son. I think maybe this has had at least made him understand how a simple decision to enter the window could have resulted in his life ending.
And as for the dog, lol, Its 0139 and Im still awake. I have to go to work in 3 1/2 hours. I dont sleep. Until either I die or start taking drugs I will be the watchdog. accept tonight Im traveling for work in a hotel 1000 miles away from home. So the dog is all they have besides the guns. Hopefully the training my wife and kids have had with what to do in this situation would save them. Im sure not going to lose sleep over it, my daughter can knock a man down 10 outof 10 times at 10 yards. shes a good shot :aok
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damn, rolex... ..that's a heluva endictment.
ever occur to you that we could all just be lookin forward to killin our kids and neighbors at the drop of a hat? Just got my cat back from attack school.. she's been trained to rip the eyes outta trespassing sleeping babies in carriges by attacking from on top of the door.
Im ready fer anything.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Kev, I have been thinking about this recently. A lot of people here say that they would take a flashlight along with a gun.
But I came to the conclusion that it would take major major balls, brass, cahones, however you want to say it to actually turn that light on.
Thanks. I do it on average probably about once a week. The light goes on when I need to see something, turns off when I don't.
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I need to check out that attack cat training - have a link, Hang?
Here's what I've done to fortify my home defense system:
I invite my friends over for a BBQ and we usually do some target practice (after a case of beer... :) ).
(http://tech-rep.org/bbq.jpg)
You can see that I've had a landscaper come in and clear the land around my place so the buggers can't hide in the bushes. I recommend a Daisycutter. Also, I've got a nice perimeter set up for any firefight or breach of outer defenses.
Then, I usually take the Cobra up to take out any of the riff-raff that might spill out from the Walmart parking lot about 3 klicks away.
(http://tech-rep.org/cobra.jpg)
I've also installed the new M18A1-N Claymore mines around the perimeter. Note the 'N' designation... this is the new tactical nuclear model:
(http://tech-rep.org/claymore.jpg)
Here is Fluffy checking out the new Claymores I put out near our watchtowers:
(http://tech-rep.org/spot.jpg)
Unfortunately, we lost Fluffy to a freak accident when she accidently bit through one of the wires. We're gonna miss her.
(http://tech-rep.org/boom.jpg)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Kev, I have been thinking about this recently. A lot of people here say that they would take a flashlight along with a gun.
But I came to the conclusion that it would take major major balls, brass, cahones, however you want to say it to actually turn that light on.
Every single person here would want to keep the advantage in their own territory. Turning on the light would give away a lot of information and would be very confrontational. And you would have no idea where the confrontation would go.
While I don't think people would just start blasting away in the dark, I do think that very few people would actually hit the switch on the flashlight.
Actually, illuminating a person does 1 of 2 things 99% of the time. They either freeze and stare into the light, or they freeze and look away. Not sure why, but people's instinct seems to tell them if they don't move, you can't see them... One of those things you pickup playing 26 hour paintball games. That other 1% are the people trained to immediately open fire on the light (not your average intruder, in which case the drop is still to you). When you're on the receiving end of these lights, especially the newer hi-power models, you can't see anything on the other side of it at all. The key will always be though don't use it until you have their silhoutte already lined up.
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widewing gave excellent advise... especially the part about you can have a gun but it doesn't mean you are gonna shoot.
Rolex... you live in fear every day I bet... I don't wear a sissy and useless seatbelt most of the time.. I have never been in a wreck where I needed one and the odds say that I won't... the odds are at least as good I will be attacked in my life tho. so.... you go around with a piece of nylon rubbing your neck raw your whole life.... living in fear of something that will probly never happen... It is not inconvienient at all for me to take out a firearm when I am home or pack one in my baggage... I like the look of the things in any case. Fear? you are the one with the stupid seatbelt on. seriously tho... do you think people should be allowed to choose to own a firearm or not?
curval... your arguement would make sense if over half the people in the U.S. were black. Let me ask you....
If whites were less than 17% of a population but commited more than half the crime.... would you maybe see some sort of trend there? If most of the unsloved or crimes without any suspect at all were in white neighborhoods... would you expect that those unsolved crimes might be more likely to also be "white" crimes?
If I were a burglar and you came at me with a cricket paddle.... you would not need a back operation... After I inserted it... you would be standing very straight indeed.
lazs
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Oooooooo...lazs doing the tough talk on teh intardnet.
I'm not worried that you would be a burglar lazs...you are so white afterall. Good Ayrians like yourself don't break into houses. :aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
lazs
Lazs....... you are truly one demented SOB.
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well.... curv... It appears that half of the criminals are white so It is possible.. It has also been my experiance that criminals are somewhat more violent and less moral that pink shorts wearing cricket paddle weilders.
They think that talking and reason are good ways to stall said paddle weilders while they or their bud flank said paddle wielders.
skywolf... thank you.
lazs
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Rolex strikes me as a very intelligent and wise person. I've read this thread with the same sort of morbid fascination he has, but wasn't able to form such a stunning conclusion.
Kev's words keep sticking out in my mind:
The other side of the coin is...it just as easily could have been a real intruder that would have been armed.
Or Laz:
I don't wear a sissy and useless seatbelt most of the time.. I have never been in a wreck where I needed one and the odds say that I won't... the odds are at least as good I will be attacked in my life tho.
The belief that there is a 50% likelyhood that an unknown person behind a door in your home is an armed intruder, or the notion that statistical analysis would bear out the chances of you being the victim of a violent crime are equal to those of being in a serious car accident. These conclusions seem completely delusional to me. Or do you guys really live in such violent and lawless circumstances that your beliefs are actually well-founded? If so, I have to echo Rolex-- that just sucks. What a sorry indication on the state of our country.
I'm very relieved Kev's son and friend weren't hurt in the incident, however rightly or wrongly we think it played out. And as a disclaimers, in the main I support gun owner's rights, and in general I choose not to wear a seatbelt. I also thought Widewing's post was well-thought out and rational.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Dedalos, bottom line is I dont have a gun to protect my VCR. I have it to protect my family and our lives. Not just against home invasion there are more reasons than need to be discussed here. I dont want to turn this into a gun control thread that gets locked. It is about a choice that sometimes people have to make. I was looking for input on the choice I made and have appreciated all comments including yours Dedalos, thanks!
Gun control? lol. I have nothing against guns. I've been around them since I was a baby. However, they were for hunting and shooting at targets. There were never a mention of the gun being there to protect anyone. Thats the point I was trying to make and was not referring just to you, but people in general. How many of the posters in this thread ever had to use one to save their lifes or know of anyone that did? How many know of someone that killed a loved one or came close to?
If that was an intruder and was there to just steal and run, confornting him with a gun would have forced him to use his. This can be argued over and over and over and no one will ever agree.
One thing that tells a lot about our society is that our reaction to property being stolen is to kill. Really, I think it is the fact that at that point we think we have the right to kill and that we will get away with it that makes us want a gun for protection. Not peper spray, taser, or what ever else. We have the oportunity to kill and we are willing to take it. Just make sure when the time comes that you don't blink, cause if you have to wait a scond to ID your son, the boogyman will get you. so kick the door down, shoot first, and ask questions latter and hope it was not your day.
PS. By you, I mean the reader. Not you kev
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ded... I wouldn't shoot someone over them trying to steal my property (so far anyhow)... I would shoot them because of the threat that someone who would have such a morals as to break into my home... the threat he represents. If he has no compunction about breaking into my home.... what might he be willing to do to take my property or to escape without getting caught?
When someone has broken into your home... what is his state of mind? Where does he draw the line? You don't know... you do know that he has gone farther than you ever expected anyone to go.... It is a comfort to know that you have a tool that could negate further antisocial acts form him.
In most cases... him simply knowing that you have a firearm will modify his behavior to your benifiet.
chain saws are dangerous but if you need a tree cut down you use a chainsaw.... carefully.
oboe... I believe that the numbers in some areas say that you have something like a 1 in three chance of being a victim of a violent crime like robbery, rape, burglary etc. in your lifetime.... I believe that getting into a wreck where a seatbelt would save you is about the same number. I could be foggy on this tho and will bow to any real data that somone dredges up.
lazs
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Originally posted by kevykev56
And as for the dog, lol, Its 0139 and Im still awake. I have to go to work in 3 1/2 hours. I dont sleep. Until either I die or start taking drugs I will be the watchdog. accept tonight Im traveling for work in a hotel 1000 miles away from home. So the dog is all they have besides the guns. Hopefully the training my wife and kids have had with what to do in this situation would save them. Im sure not going to lose sleep over it, my daughter can knock a man down 10 outof 10 times at 10 yards. shes a good shot :aok
Well, everything worked out ok and that's the most important factor.
As to useless watchdogs... I had a Siberian Husky. Those pale blue eyes would scare the bejesus out of people. Yet, she was a sucker for attention and loved everyone. Her only vice was an utter lack of respect for other dogs. If a strange dog failed to show proper courtesy, she morphed into a 60 pound buzzsaw.
When my oldest daughter was 13 (now 21), she was walking the Husky on its leash. A neighbor had a rough and tumble pit bull-lab mix named Jack. This dog had already bitten two people and was one more bite from being put down. His owner was still careless, allowing the dog to run in the yard instead of chaining him to a post. Apparently, their kids left the gate open, because as my daughter walked past their house Jack flew out of the yard, heading straight for her. I was raking leaves in the backyard and saw the whole thing unfold. As the dog neared my kid, I saw a flash of color and Jack went flying through the air like he had been hit by a truck. In a blink, the Husky had him by the neck and tossed the 50 pound dog around like a limp noodle. She finally let loose and Jack lay spawled in the road for a minute or so (meanwhile, I had jumped the fence and was sprinting to them). He then staggered to his feet and wobbled back to his yard, bleeding profusely from the neck and head. One of his ears was badly ripped. Aside from being stained with the other dog's blood, the Husky was untouched, as was my daughter.
I went over and rang their doorbell. I explained to the husband what had happened and he immediately loaded Jack into the car and drove him to the vet.
For all the fierceness of that Husky, she was totally useless as a watchdog. She never barked and would gladly allow a burgler to enter, as long as he stopped to rub her ears.
Jack remained in the animal hospital for several days and ran up a substantial bill. After he picked up the dog, he stopped by to show me the $1,400+ bill. He had the audacity to ask that I pay for the dog's care. If I wasn't so damned angry I might have laughed in his face. I reminded him that his dog was running loose and had a history of being aggressive. My dog, on the other hand, was on a leash. "Sorry pal, but the liability is all yours."
I found the Husky in the Southampton Animal Shelter, where she was serving time for killing a small doe. She was "apprehended" dragging the dead deer down the road by its broken neck. Huskies are hell on wheels for deer. While the deer is faster in a sprint, the Husky is genetically programmed to run all day. They will eventually run the deer into the ground.
Anyway, the shelter manager told me she had also killed about a dozen chickens. Hmm, I thought; "my kind of dog". They told me that despite her wild side, she simply loved people and she licked my face like I was a long-lost uncle. I took her to a groomer directly from the shelter as she was far too dirty for the house. Not only was she gentle with the lady, she carried on like a complete whimp, whining and yelping when the girl tried to clip her nails/claws. My girls loved the dog and she loved them back, being extremely protective.
We lived in the middle of several thousand acres of pine barrens (eastern-central Long Island). I would take her out to hunt rabbit. She did the hunting, I merely watched. Never did one get away once flushed from its hide.
So, we had no fear of home invasions by rabbits, deer or dogs. However, a mass murderer was perfectly welcome, especially if he brought a chewstick.
(Edit) I forgot to mention that about a year later Jack bit a young boy who lived down the road. A judge ordered him put down.
My regards,
Widewing
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The judge should have also had the owner charged with assault. Carelessness with a dog is jsut as bad with a gun. As for protecting your house and loved ones guns arent always the right wepon. I ALWAYS have my knife on or near me.
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Cool story Widewing. :aok
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Not a dog lover. any dog will do tho... better to have a little dog that sleeps in the room and is hyper vigilant. all the dog needs to do is wake me up... I can take care of the rest.
I had a boxer. they are very gentle dogs(except with other dogs). It only growled once and it was not a false alarm. but..
Took care of that dog for 14 years... talk about your inconvienence... kids are less trouble. I can't imagine anyone who would take care of a dog saying that guns are difficult to own... it is laughable.
lazs
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Huskys are beautiful dogs IMO. Although that dog Jack was a pit-bull mix and not pure, it still seems pretty impressive to me for a Husky to be able to take one on like that. I won't be able to own any dog for the forseeable future, but fortunately almost everyone on my street has at least one dog. It's funny because you can tell whether someone is walking up or down the street by listening for who's dog goes off first. Eventually all the dogs on the street are barking - makes for a great warning that someone strange is on our street, or someone is walking their dog. Some of the neighbors dogs still bark at the other neighbors as they walk by. Neighbor on my right has a little pomeranian-chihuahua mix that still comes up to their screen door and growls at me while I'm doing yard work after more than a year living next door. No complaints from me though, a former city condominium dweller.