Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BTBit on October 19, 2005, 10:23:59 AM
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I have mixed feelings about Fightertown(FT) on the new map. While I see that it really benefits those of us who like to furball and want to be in a fight fast, I feel that it detracts from the original objective of the game, winning the war. Also it creates an unfair balance in some of the statistics shown online due to the speed of which a player can get back into battle after he dies if he so chooses. This means that people who have huge kills/hour scores due to FT will have a higher ranking than those of us who choose not to partake in such activities.
Would it not be better to have a FT arena with it's own tour stats? This would keep the stats more balanced and allow people the choice of how they want to fly today without adversely affecting their stats. I try to keep my k/d high (maybe unsuccessfully) and therefore aviod furballing. But I do like it. And I would probably venture there if it were a separate arena. It would also be an idea to make the airfields in the FT arena "unporkable" (new word?) so that there would always be fighters and fuel enabled.
Another thing this could accomplish would be to allow bases in the MA to have fuel porked (I believe this was stopped due to people complaining that when someone porked the fuel that ended the furballs). I believe many of these concessions are removing the realism from the game that used to exist when I started playing it. It used to be when we wanted to capture a base we would take the fuel down to prevent those pesky LA's from flying long if they could get up at all.
Maybe the FT could replace the seldom used (IMHO) CT. Or it could be a new arena.
Well I look forward to hearing your comments on this and hope that we can see some sort of action on this.
BTBit...
*** Blue Thunder ***
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You like everyone else, confuse people who like to fight and/or fighting with mindless furbaling. I could not care less about a furbal. However, you will find me in one because thats the only way I can get to fight fast. When other fights are available (Like defending a base), I go there. Killing the fuel, stops people like me from fighting the 'war' (believe it or not, defending a base instead of shooting at buildings, is fighting the war) and makes us go find a furball. Creating a FT arena, will just make me go there after the fuel ot the FHs are gone, and honestly, I will not come back since I am too lazy to log on and off all the time.
Wouldn't you rather have us there? Because no mater how much the building wariers and score hos label us as mindles furballers, the truth is, it is usually noit mindless. Furballs develop after their attempt to capture a base fails due to the fighters deffending it, or their inability to kill the church :rolleyes:
Your war, would not be possible without the mindless furballers because no one would be deffending anything. Deffending a field could have very negative effects on your K/D ratio and score in general so non of the true 'Fight the war' guys would do it. So, everytime you took a base, the enemy would take one of yours. You would end up with base recycling, but hey, the furballers would not be there.
Finally, I would preffer if the generals would stop thinking of me as their resource. I don't work for you. From now on, look at your selfs as MY resource and refer to your selfs as TARGETS. Thats all you are. Targets that talk way too mach after their death. And please, HT, can we have a targets only arena where people can just fly high and run from eachother before they auger trying to bomb the church?
Thank you :rofl :rofl :rofl :cry
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well said.
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Furballing is a waste of time.
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I still don't get how after all these years in AH/AH2, I suddenly have to move to a different arena to fight the other people who play the same online game, so that others still can have the Main Arena for target practice.
While the premise for fighting has mostly been this great "war", I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the primary (and only, for that matter) objective.
In addition, if you're flying a certain way to protect your stats, they've already lost relevance. I don't fly for stats. I find that incredibly dull.
I, like ded, don't simply furball; I intercept bomber raids, defend bases, and occasionally even hop in a tank and shoot things that aren't planes. To insist that I move to another arena because I'm not actively milkrunning, is simply unreasonable.
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If any of these people who continuously suggest that a Furball/FT arena be created, actually did a search for this on this BBS they would find out that it is with out a doubt, absolutely, unquestionably NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
This was stated by the man himself quite a few times in quite a few different ways.
Try suggesting ways to bring the players together in combat, which IMO is the true object of this game, instead of suggesting that we separate the players or that we find ways to prevent one groups of player from playing the game the way they wish.
Lastly, an FT arena was tried in the CT, it failed. Why would HT create a new arena when the experiment failed? This you would also know if you spend a little time researching your suggestion.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Killing the fuel, stops people like me from fighting the 'war' (believe it or not, defending a base instead of shooting at buildings, is fighting the war) and makes us go find a furball.
I certainly do agree that defending a base is part of the war but is it reasonable to think that one should be able to defend a base having it's full resources available until the base is captured?
I know you can take down all the hangers to accomplish this as well. I guess the point is that right now death is without consequence. Defending the base should include defending it's resources. And if that defence was unsuccessful then you didn't do your job. Besides, who says that you have to up from the base being attacked to defend it? Many times upping from a neighboring base is a better choice with better results. In fact, counterstike on the attacking base can be even more defense than defending at the base under attack.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Try suggesting ways to bring the players together in combat, which IMO is the true object of this game, instead of suggesting that we separate the players or that we find ways to prevent one groups of player from playing the game the way they wish.
I tryed to do this with a post a few days ago. I Was trying to make a constructive thread with the idea of getting people to post ideas on how to make a map that would get all types of play to come togeather in combat Fighters vs fighters, fighters vs bombers, vehicles vs fighters, bombers, vehicles and so on.
But ya know what I got????? A bunch of smart *** dip $h1t comments.
This tells me that this forum must only be frequented by smart *** dip $h1ts or that the intelegent people that happen to have a brain and have thoughts on how to improve gameplay FOR ALL not just one faction or other, didn't get to read it befor it was dropped off the page. Or it could be that the people with brains in there heads must not frequent the forums at all knowing that they will just get the replys to halfway inteligent posts and thoughts that I did....
Ya know that last one must be it because I was a tad buzzed when I posted that thread.... The alcohol must have lowered my IQ just enough to post and hope for adult replys. anyway good luck on getting constructive answers all people seem to want to do is snipe at one another on the forums...
Let the snipeing begin.:aok
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Originally posted by BTBit
I have mixed feelings about Fightertown(FT) on the new map. While I see that it really benefits those of us who like to furball and want to be in a fight fast, I feel that it detracts from the original objective of the game, winning the war. Also it creates an unfair balance in some of the statistics shown online due to the speed of which a player can get back into battle after he dies if he so chooses. This means that people who have huge kills/hour scores due to FT will have a higher ranking than those of us who choose not to partake in such activities.
Would it not be better to have a FT arena with it's own tour stats? This would keep the stats more balanced and allow people the choice of how they want to fly today without adversely affecting their stats. I try to keep my k/d high (maybe unsuccessfully) and therefore aviod furballing. But I do like it. And I would probably venture there if it were a separate arena. It would also be an idea to make the airfields in the FT arena "unporkable" (new word?) so that there would always be fighters and fuel enabled.
Another thing this could accomplish would be to allow bases in the MA to have fuel porked (I believe this was stopped due to people complaining that when someone porked the fuel that ended the furballs). I believe many of these concessions are removing the realism from the game that used to exist when I started playing it. It used to be when we wanted to capture a base we would take the fuel down to prevent those pesky LA's from flying long if they could get up at all.
Maybe the FT could replace the seldom used (IMHO) CT. Or it could be a new arena.
Well I look forward to hearing your comments on this and hope that we can see some sort of action on this.
BTBit...
*** Blue Thunder ***
Where is it stated that winning the war is the original objective of this game?
And when you talk realism, what are you referring to?
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Where is it stated that winning the war is the original objective of this game?
And when you talk realism, what are you referring to?
My thoughts exactly. I thought the focus was on air combat?
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
If any of these people who continuously suggest that a Furball/FT arena be created, actually did a search for this on this BBS they would find out that it is with out a doubt, absolutely, unquestionably NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
This was stated by the man himself quite a few times in quite a few different ways.
Try suggesting ways to bring the players together in combat, which IMO is the true object of this game, instead of suggesting that we separate the players or that we find ways to prevent one groups of player from playing the game the way they wish.
Lastly, an FT arena was tried in the CT, it failed. Why would HT create a new arena when the experiment failed? This you would also know if you spend a little time researching your suggestion.
Although I agree with most of what you say your last paragraph is incorrect.
You can't "try" the "FT Arena" inside the CT. The "FT Arena" would require a different map and adjusted settings, etc..
While the attempt was made to 'simulate' an "FT" environment it was doomed before it even got going (although alot of people tried it for a couple of days as it was and some fun was had!) for these reasons.
1) the aircraft were setup in "CT" fashion, ie: you could get a zeke only at A1 and 109 only at A2.
2) the close bases were soooo close that the ack from the enemy base would fire at you taking off.
3) it allowed for too much greifing due to various settings, map config, etc...
Decent FT Arena Link (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150982)
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Originally posted by Flayed1
I tryed to do this with a post a few days ago. I Was trying to make a constructive thread with the idea of getting people to post ideas on how to make a map that would get all types of play to come togeather in combat Fighters vs fighters, fighters vs bombers, vehicles vs fighters, bombers, vehicles and so on.
But ya know what I got????? A bunch of smart *** dip $h1t comments.
Hehe, just read that thread. Yup sure degenerated quickly. Amazing what one stupic comment can do to a discussion.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Where is it stated that winning the war is the original objective of this game?
And when you talk realism, what are you referring to?
Well if the objective of the game is not to win the war why have capturable bases at all? In fact why not just spawn planes at 15,000 ft over the furballs at top speed with endless fuel and ammo? This is the realism that I am speaking of. It is not realistic to allow infinite fuel at a base and ords and planes etc. etc. etc. There has to be some way of taking down the strategic targets and cripple a base that you are attacking. It's bad enough that death has no consequence because you can reup seconds later in a fresh new plane. At least make inability to defend have some consequence. Defence should be more of a "i/b raid to A1 scramble and interecept" rather than "OMG a1 being hit hard now everyone in LA 7's and re-up until we take them all down". I actually liked in AH1 when bases could be brought down to 25% fuel. It was an awesome counter strike attack that could help with the defence of a base. This does not limit the amount of combat that goes on but just changes the locations of it. Look for the i/b raids and intercept. Plot raids of your own knowing that the enemy will try to intercept. In war the objective is to fight and kill without losing your own life. While in here it is kill as many as you can before you die and repeat. That is unrealistic! IMHO
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Originally posted by BTBit
Well if the objective of the game is not to win the war why have capturable bases at all? In fact why not just spawn planes at 15,000 ft over the furballs at top speed with endless fuel and ammo? This is the realism that I am speaking of. It is not realistic to allow infinite fuel at a base and ords and planes etc. etc. etc. There has to be some way of taking down the strategic targets and cripple a base that you are attacking. It's bad enough that death has no consequence because you can reup seconds later in a fresh new plane. At least make inability to defend have some consequence. Defence should be more of a "i/b raid to A1 scramble and interecept" rather than "OMG a1 being hit hard now everyone in LA 7's and re-up until we take them all down". I actually liked in AH1 when bases could be brought down to 25% fuel. It was an awesome counter strike attack that could help with the defence of a base. This does not limit the amount of combat that goes on but just changes the locations of it. Look for the i/b raids and intercept. Plot raids of your own knowing that the enemy will try to intercept. In war the objective is to fight and kill without losing your own life. While in here it is kill as many as you can before you die. That is unrealistic! IMHO
OK so your interpretation of the game is that it is about winning 'the war', although it's not written anywhere on the game that you are aware of?
Since I'm nothing more then a lowly fighter dweeb, I don't concern myself with the big picture as realistically it wasn't my job as a lowely fighter dweeb to direct strategy and tactics. I leave that to the GeNeralZ.
My job as a fighter dweeb is to find em in the air and kill them anywhere, anytime baby. That's all that matters to me...although I die an awful lot :)
And as this is a game, and no one really dies and no one really wins the war, I play it to have fun in the way that's fun to me. If strategy and tactics, along with moving mud and taking real estate is your thing, more power to ya. I hope you are cheif of staff before it's over :)
BUT! imagine that Fighter Town is the English Channel from about 1941-1944. No one was taking any ground. The only war was in the air, that battle of attrition between the fighter pilots, with the bombers that went along, essentially bait to try and get the LW fighters up.
That's Fightertown. That's realistic under those circumstances, as long as we're trying to bring 'realism' into this :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I still don't get how after all these years in AH/AH2, I suddenly have to move to a different arena to fight the other people who play the same online game, so that others still can have the Main Arena for target practice.
While the premise for fighting has mostly been this great "war", I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the primary (and only, for that matter) objective.
In addition, if you're flying a certain way to protect your stats, they've already lost relevance. I don't fly for stats. I find that incredibly dull.
I, like ded, don't simply furball; I intercept bomber raids, defend bases, and occasionally even hop in a tank and shoot things that aren't planes. To insist that I move to another arena because I'm not actively milkrunning, is simply unreasonable.
Wow, I was able to understand what you said :aok
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quote:
Originally posted by
BTBit,
I feel that it detracts from the original objective of the game, winning the war.
Objective of game ? Winning the War ? , maybe......maybe not !
Objective of game for me is " Having Fun " I like to fight, on deck , thru trees , and in the fastest planes the game allows ......( read FURBALL ) !
Fighter Town , worked great in Air Warrior ! , you couldn't kill it and it had no effect on what soever, who won the Map .....
just my 2 cents ...........
CHECKERS
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Good ponts but look at it from the other side too.
Originally posted by BTBit
I certainly do agree that defending a base is part of the war but is it reasonable to think that one should be able to defend a base having it's full resources available until the base is captured?
As reasonable as one plane taking the resources out. Just assume that the planes had been filled up with fuel before the fuel was taken out.
I know you can take down all the hangers to accomplish this as well. I guess the point is that right now death is without consequence. Defending the base should include defending it's resources. And if that defence was unsuccessful then you didn't do your job. Besides, who says that you have to up from the base being attacked to defend it? Many times upping from a neighboring base is a better choice with better results. In fact, counterstike on the attacking base can be even more defense than defending at the base under attack. [/B]
How can I defend the resources when a single 190 can make two passes and take that resource out, with out any consern of surviving. They are like terorists :lol they cant be stopped becaus ethey have no fear of death (AND THIS IS JUST A JOCKE< OK?)
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bt... the real problem is that you are really not trying to undersand or give us what we want.... you are simply trying to figure out a way that we will play your game and not complain too much about it.
that is the entire problem with the whole strat/furball arguement..
get it into your head.... we don't care who wins the war and don't want to be any part of it. If we are part of it then we are only there because that is where most of the planes are fighting...
to put it in perspective..... if we (our chesspiece) was minutes away from "winning" the war if only every one would take orders and do boring crap....
and at the same time.... there was a good furball half way across the map that.... by us going there.... would cause said chesspiece to lose the "war"....
we would leave and go there without giving it a second thought.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by dedalos
Good ponts but look at it from the other side too.
As reasonable as one plane taking the resources out. Just assume that the planes had been filled up with fuel before the fuel was taken out.
How can I defend the resources when a single 190 can make two passes and take that resource out, with out any consern of surviving. They are like terorists :lol they cant be stopped becaus ethey have no fear of death (AND THIS IS JUST A JOCKE< OK?)
And therein lies the problem. Perhaps these resources are too easy to take out. Perhaps we need to make it more difficult for one rogue plane to inflict so much damage. Maybe we need to put the equivalent of the CV's 5" mannable guns on the fields? Make auto ack more accurate? Put a price on death. (I know that there have been countless other threads about that but maybe it can be as simple as if you die you can reup right away but only from a different base.)
Why is it that other games like CounterStrike can get away with the "you are out for a timeperiod when you die" but AH players won't tolerate a penalty for death?
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Originally posted by lazs2
bt... the real problem is that you are really not trying to undersand or give us what we want.... you are simply trying to figure out a way that we will play your game and not complain too much about it.
Then I ask you this: Why don't we bring in jet's other than the 262 into the game and guided missiles and laser beams?
Because it is not historically accurate to the time period will be the answer. And if it's not historically accurate it can't be in the game because it would not be realistic that the planes would ever meet.
Now my question is why does this degree of realism remain in the game while death without penalty cannot? Where is the line drawn?
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I just had another thought about this. Maybe TOD will change all of this and the MA will become the FT of AH. It will be interesting to see what TOD brings to the game and how it affects the MA.
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Originally posted by BTBit
[B...........
Why is it that other games like CounterStrike can get away with the "you are out for a timeperiod when you die" but AH players won't tolerate a penalty for death? [/B]
Why ?? Because AcesHigh game play is the best .....
CHECKERS
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OK lets face it......the MA is NEVER going to be perfect. On the other hand it DOES have MOST the ellements of this "IMHO" great game included. You want to furball, you can. You want to bomb the crap out of something, you can. You want to drive a tank, you can. No one can tell you NOT to. The MA is not there to fight the "war". It's there so everyone has a place to go and do what they do best. Furball, toolshed, pork run, drive tanks, talk smack, hang out, whatever.
The arena to fight the "war" is the Special Events Arena. That is where the structured campaigns take place. Friday Night Squad Ops, Close Escort, Snapshot, and all the other events that take place there, with the exception of the Racing Leauge which is just plain FUN for the sake of FUN.
If you want to play this game on a more realistic setting, i.e. missions with a clear objective, command structure, target asignments, and the like, try checking out those events. If you want to have a good time and do "whatever" go to the MA. Thats what it's there for.
Even though I might complain from time to time about the "gamey" aspect of the MA, everyone there pays their $14.95 a month same as I do to do what they please in there. Therefore who am I to complain? In the MA I'm nobody just like everyone else, I'm also the king of the world just like everyone else.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Where is it stated that winning the war is the original objective of this game?
And when you talk realism, what are you referring to?
Sigh. I thought that EVERYBODY knew the answer to that question, Guppy.
Aces high help, first paragraph:
Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High. The arena terrain is divided into three countries, with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country. All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war.
To keep the answer short and simple,
HITECH CREATIONS SAID IT.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Sigh. I thought that EVERYBODY knew the answer to that question, Guppy.
Aces high help, first paragraph:
Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High. The arena terrain is divided into three countries, with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country. All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war.
To keep the answer short and simple,
HITECH CREATIONS SAID IT.
Ahhh but it doesn't say winning the war!
You can capture territory til the cows come home without fighter town effecting the outcome either way. You can also go back and forth capturing territory all day long without the war being won.
And if you want to take it even further, everytime one of the fighter drivers downs an enemy aircraft, he's capturing that airspace, so he's helping the overall cause that way.
But it does not say anything about winning the war :)
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Aces High II is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.
Off of the game info page.
From what I've always understood, the game was about WWII air combat. Land grabbing was just one of the many features of the game. While I could be, and probably am, wrong, this is how I perceived it.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Sigh. I thought that EVERYBODY knew the answer to that question, Guppy.
Aces high help, first paragraph:
Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High. The arena terrain is divided into three countries, with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country. All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war.
To keep the answer short and simple,
HITECH CREATIONS SAID IT.
But Shubie, where does it say that if you joins Aces High you are required to participate in this? Sure wasn't part of the "Terms of Service" I read.
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Originally posted by rshubert
To keep the answer short and simple,
HITECH CREATIONS SAID IT.
I'd like to keep my answer short and simple (but it wont happen)
The real problem with the so called furballers is very similar to the LA7 problem. Once in awhile, they show up and mess up your little scorehoin vulch runs, and they kill you.
So the short answer is: "NO WTFG FOR YOU!!!!" cause you died running again. Please HT, make furballers go away. :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
But Shubie, where does it say that if you joins Aces High you are required to participate in this? Sure wasn't part of the "Terms of Service" I read.
No. But it does mean what it says. Pretending that it doesn't say that makes no logical sense. Pissing and moaning about how those that participate in the game as it was designed makes no sense, either.
The point of it all is that there is NO GUARANTEE in the terms of service that you will be able to do whatever you want to in the game, unaffected by the actions of the other players. Hell, if you want that, there are a number of excellent box sims out there where there ARE no other players.
If you choose to play this MMOG, you must expect that the others that also choose to play will have an effect on the game. It's kind of basic to the whole idea, you see?
Therefore, nobody should complain about how others play. You bought into THEIR gameplay when you bought into the game. It's that simple.
shubie
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Originally posted by DipStick
While the attempt was made to 'simulate' an "FT" environment it was doomed before it even got going (although alot of people tried it for a couple of days as it was and some fun was had!) for these reasons.
1) the aircraft were setup in "CT" fashion, ie: you could get a zeke only at A1 and 109 only at A2.
2) the close bases were soooo close that the ack from the enemy base would fire at you taking off.
3) it allowed for too much greifing due to various settings, map config, etc...
I think you missed the second time we tried it, DipStick. Your account here accurately describes the first time, in the area where we placed the early-war fighters. Those bases were too close together. In that setup we didn't have the same ack difficulty with the mid- and late-war planes, where the bases were further apart.
The second time we tried Fightertown in the CT, we used the Tunisia map and made no distinction between Axis and Allies (although we still maintained the time period divisions, so that P-51s wouldn't be fighting Hurricane Is). As with the first setup, we got one or two nights of high attendance, and basically no one for the rest of the week.
Both of these setups were well-advertised, and clearly people saw the advertisements. We've wondered about the poor response rate quite a bit - I, in particular, yearned for the days of AW's old FR Fightertown arena. I think our principal conclusions were that even a Fightertown setup won't draw people in unless you always have a certain (unknown) minimum number of players. Squad allegiance also plays a big part, I suspect.
One way or another, I have joined the ranks of those who say that a separate Fightertown arena won't work. For MA furballers, it's probably a great idea to have an area on the MA's main map that will serve that function - same as the atoll in Big Pac in AW. We've pretty much rejected the idea in the CT, though.
- oldman
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Originally posted by dedalos
I'd like to keep my answer short and simple (but it wont happen)
The real problem with the so called furballers is very similar to the LA7 problem. Once in awhile, they show up and mess up your little scorehoin vulch runs, and they kill you.
So the short answer is: "NO WTFG FOR YOU!!!!" cause you died running again. Please HT, make furballers go away. :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
Where do you see me saying that you shouldn't furball? I have made MANY posts about this, saying that you should have a good, furry time with it. My objections always start when you (the furball crowd, and if you're in it, you personally) start biotching about how the strat players ruin your fun, and should stop doing that.
There have been exactly ZERO attempts by strat players to change the game to ruin it for furballers. On the other side, we have the fuel porkage changes, the addition of more hangars to the bases, the changes in the strat system, and now the "fighter town" map area. Not to mention that abortion of a map known as FesterMA, designed specifically to make strat play unproductive and to promote furballing.
Here's the bottom line: The furballers want to have everybody accomodate their play style, without making any accomodations for the other players. I say that is wrong.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Ahhh but it doesn't say winning the war!
You can capture territory til the cows come home without fighter town effecting the outcome either way. You can also go back and forth capturing territory all day long without the war being won.
And if you want to take it even further, everytime one of the fighter drivers downs an enemy aircraft, he's capturing that airspace, so he's helping the overall cause that way.
But it does not say anything about winning the war :)
Well, duh. You're parsing that pretty carefully, guppy. Open those big blue (or brown?) eyes, and read the whole thing. A few paragraphs down:
Winning the War
The war is won when any country is reduced to one field. At that time, the arena is reset, a different terrain is rotated in with the country territories randomly set, and a perk point bonus is awarded to players that have been in the winning country for a minimum of 12 hours prior to the end of the war.
And yes, the rules have changed a bit since that was written. Now the base count for the win is a little higher. That was to make winning the war easier, I guess.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Ahhh but it doesn't say winning the war!
You can capture territory til the cows come home without fighter town effecting the outcome either way. You can also go back and forth capturing territory all day long without the war being won.
And if you want to take it even further, everytime one of the fighter drivers downs an enemy aircraft, he's capturing that airspace, so he's helping the overall cause that way.
But it does not say anything about winning the war :)
thas right!! my objective is to secure my own personal territory, i.e., airspace... you violate my airspace you better pray you have help!!
:aok
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It's amazing to see the Bk who spit on and dispise so much the horde strat player behave on this BBS exactly like what they pretend to dispise the most.
Fire at will Bk's
Flame suit ON
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Originally posted by BTBit
Why is it that other games like CounterStrike can get away with the "you are out for a timeperiod when you die" but AH players won't tolerate a penalty for death?
Because when I do find the time to "fly", which isn't much (the same reason I dont fly bombers or goons often), I dont want to be penalized for not having countless hours of practice that some guys seem to have. Not to mention the fact that it seems to take forever to fly between bases on most maps anyhow, that alone could function as my "time out". But really, all I want is to up, grab 2k, and fight. Any further penalties and I'd probably take my $14.95 elsewhere.:aok
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Originally posted by rshubert
Well, duh. You're parsing that pretty carefully, guppy. Open those big blue (or brown?) eyes, and read the whole thing. A few paragraphs down:
Winning the War
The war is won when any country is reduced to one field. At that time, the arena is reset, a different terrain is rotated in with the country territories randomly set, and a perk point bonus is awarded to players that have been in the winning country for a minimum of 12 hours prior to the end of the war.
And yes, the rules have changed a bit since that was written. Now the base count for the win is a little higher. That was to make winning the war easier, I guess.
And it still has nothing to do with a Fighter town, as the war can be won, while the furballers are enjoying thier ACM experience in AH.
Again nowhere does it say that it is required to win the war. It doesn't tell me that I'm obligated to move mud or capture bases as part of winning the war.. I fly AH to have fun and for me that involves looking for a good furball. If it helps capture a base, so be it, but I don't go out of my way to play strat wars.
I have no problem if that's how you want to play the game...with emphasis on game. I won't interfere with your war unless I can find a good dogfight in the midst of it. Generally it doesn't work that way however as the fastest way to win the war is to avoid the conflict.
I don't care if I die as long as I had a good time trying to stay alive against some other guy in a fighter trying to do the same. And since I don't really die and I get a free plane everytime I go down, it really doesn't matter does it :)
The funny part is winning the war means going back to the beginning, so it's kinda pointless in the end. Yeah! We won the war!....oh wait, it's 1939 again....what happened? Where's the victory parade?
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There have been exactly ZERO attempts by strat players to change the game to ruin it for furballers.
im taking it that you missed the FT bases all belonging to the bish a week ago or so?
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Originally posted by dedalos
I'd like to keep my answer short and simple (but it wont happen)
The real problem with the so called furballers is very similar to the LA7 problem. Once in awhile, they show up and mess up your little scorehoin vulch runs, and they kill you.
So the short answer is: "NO WTFG FOR YOU!!!!" cause you died running again. Please HT, make furballers go away. :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
Uhh,,yeah sure, O.K. thats the real problem all right. Hell, any pimple faced, snot nosed kid can take me out. Being attacked by some self exhalted Quaker just means you took the fun from the aforementioned pimple faced, snot nosed kid, unless of course you are one? If so congratulations. WTFG! :p
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Originally posted by Guppy35
...Again nowhere does it say that it is required to win the war. It doesn't tell me that I'm obligated to move mud or capture bases as part of winning the war.. I fly AH to have fun and for me that involves looking for a good furball. If it helps capture a base, so be it, but I don't go out of my way to play strat wars...
The funny part is winning the war means going back to the beginning, so it's kinda pointless in the end. Yeah! We won the war!....oh wait, it's 1939 again....what happened? Where's the victory parade?
You point out the pointlessness of "winning the war", and at the same time the pointlessness of furballing. You're dancin', dan.
None of this has any real point. We're playing a game, which is (in my case) a stress reliever, pure brain candy. I don't hope to gain any useful skill, or any useless skill, either. I just want to have fun.
Letting your actions get me all riled up takes away from my fun. So, I don't get riled up. If I lose control of my emotions and get all pissed off, I have increased the stress level, not reduced it. I usually quietly log off if that happens, and go do something else.
I suggest you take a page out of that same book. If somebody else's actions piss you off, try to understand why you're mad. When you do that, you get less angry. If you get your anger under control, yo have more fun. If you have more fun, you get more out of the game.
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ROFL, FesterMA only inhibits strat play if you can't deal with enemy planes, or are too impatient to fly buffs any higher than treetop level.
It would seem to me that strat play would consist of its root word, strategy. However, as we all know, this is far from the case. When a group of guys gets together and plans something and runs it (think Filth's buff missions), they are usually a spectacular success.
So do me a favor, don't call it strat play, becuase it isn't. Strategy is well thought out and executed in a precise way. Toolshed horde milkrunning isn't.
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I have mixed feelings about Fightertown(FT) on the new map. While I see that it really benefits those of us who like to furball and want to be in a fight fast, I feel that it detracts from the original objective of the game, winning the war.
TOTAL CRAP ... thats your objective ... not mine. What make yours better than mine ?
Also it creates an unfair balance in some of the statistics shown online due to the speed of which a player can get back into battle after he dies if he so chooses. This means that people who have huge kills/hour scores due to FT will have a higher ranking than those of us who choose not to partake in such activities.
TOTAL CRAP ... You obviously no nothing about scoring and achieving rank.
Would it not be better to have a FT arena with it's own tour stats? This would keep the stats more balanced and allow people the choice of how they want to fly today without adversely affecting their stats. I try to keep my k/d high (maybe unsuccessfully) and therefore aviod furballing. But I do like it. And I would probably venture there if it were a separate arena. It would also be an idea to make the airfields in the FT arena "unporkable" (new word?) so that there would always be fighters and fuel enabled.
TOTAL CRAP ... segregation at its best.
Another thing this could accomplish would be to allow bases in the MA to have fuel porked (I believe this was stopped due to people complaining that when someone porked the fuel that ended the furballs). I believe many of these concessions are removing the realism from the game that used to exist when I started playing it. It used to be when we wanted to capture a base we would take the fuel down to prevent those pesky LA's from flying long if they could get up at all.
TOTAL CRAP ... this is an assumption, at best. The "fuel porking" was virtually eliminated by HT and crew at the onset of AHII and the new fuel burn multiplier. It had nothing to do with anybody applying thumb-screws to HT and getting it "their" way.
When fuel could be porked ... an La-7 with 25% fuel could do some serious damage when it came to base defense, so think of another excuse.
If you are a real serious "base taker", then there is no need to level ANYTHING outside of the the VH, ACK, and TOWN. If ya can't take a base without making it a smoking hole ... then YOU SUCK ... and as Stang pointed out ... you really had no strategy to start with.
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Originally posted by killnu
im taking it that you missed the FT bases all belonging to the bish a week ago or so?
Ahem..... And then Monday nite when the Rooks & Nits both at one point had Tank Town.....
Must have been an error... Rooks & Nits NEVER do things like that...
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Originally posted by BTBit
I feel that it detracts from the original objective of the game, winning the war.
[/b]
The original objective of the game was air to air combat. I wonder if anyone besides HTC kept a copy of the game description from the first half of its existence.
In the beginning, "winning the war" was never mentioned. There wasn't even a strat system. It was all about air to air combat. There were no vehicles, no ships, none of that BS.
THAT was the original objective of the game: AIR TO AIR COMBAT.
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Originally posted by BTBit
Well if the objective of the game is not to win the war why have capturable bases at all?
The only real reason for capturable bases was to promote an Air-to-Air fight.
Again, you may not have been around since Day 1, but base capture was so simplified that you probably can't imagine how simple it was. And just as easy to recapture.
The only point of base capture is to give the dogs a bone to fight over. If you ever reach that understanding you will finally have realized the original purpose of this game.
Think this way: There were no buffs in the beginning. There were no vehicles. No manned ack, no shore guns, no troops, no "fuel supplies", no "ord", no "barracks".... NONE of that BS.
Why because ACES HIGH was about AIR-TO-AIR COMBAT.
Ponder a while.
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U mean I'm suppose to fight other aircraft:eek:
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Originally posted by rshubert
Where do you see me saying that you shouldn't furball? I have made MANY posts about this, saying that you should have a good, furry time with it. My objections always start when you (the furball crowd, and if you're in it, you personally) start biotching about how the strat players ruin your fun, and should stop doing that.
There have been exactly ZERO attempts by strat players to change the game to ruin it for furballers. On the other side, we have the fuel porkage changes, the addition of more hangars to the bases, the changes in the strat system, and now the "fighter town" map area. Not to mention that abortion of a map known as FesterMA, designed specifically to make strat play unproductive and to promote furballing.
Here's the bottom line: The furballers want to have everybody accomodate their play style, without making any accomodations for the other players. I say that is wrong.
Well said!!!!
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Originally posted by rshubert
You point out the pointlessness of "winning the war", and at the same time the pointlessness of furballing. You're dancin', dan.
None of this has any real point. We're playing a game, which is (in my case) a stress reliever, pure brain candy. I don't hope to gain any useful skill, or any useless skill, either. I just want to have fun.
Letting your actions get me all riled up takes away from my fun. So, I don't get riled up. If I lose control of my emotions and get all pissed off, I have increased the stress level, not reduced it. I usually quietly log off if that happens, and go do something else.
I suggest you take a page out of that same book. If somebody else's actions piss you off, try to understand why you're mad. When you do that, you get less angry. If you get your anger under control, yo have more fun. If you have more fun, you get more out of the game.
I think we're on the same page in terms of recognizing it's a game. Believe me, there is nothing about AH that gets me worked up :) It's my escape from the real world and purely for enjoyment.
My part in the discussion was more to point out that there is no right way to play AH, outside of having fun, regardless if it's mud moving or furballing.
The debate seems to be should they seperate the furballers from the MA. I think that the fightertown set up allows for folks to step into the furball should they feel like it, while still hanging out with the crowd that might be capturing bases. One does not need to exclude the other.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I think we're on the same page in terms of recognizing it's a game. Believe me, there is nothing about AH that gets me worked up :) It's my escape from the real world and purely for enjoyment.
My part in the discussion was more to point out that there is no right way to play AH, outside of having fun, regardless if it's mud moving or furballing.
The debate seems to be should they seperate the furballers from the MA. I think that the fightertown set up allows for folks to step into the furball should they feel like it, while still hanging out with the crowd that might be capturing bases. One does not need to exclude the other.
AMEN! :aok
Who cares how someone else enjoys to play, just do what is fun for you. Toolshedders & Furrballers make the game fun even if it inconviences people.
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May be we need new separate arena for grabers&porkers? :huh
Personally i dont care about neither "winning war" (aka Porkers The Greate Goal :lol ) nor furball, i more like 1 vs 1 fights. Bombers, attakers, GVs, field capturing and other just making "war environment", game will empty without them for me. Because of that i dont want to go in DA though it more suit to my preferences.
Isolate furball area is very good idea, i want we have it in every regular MA map. Also i want to see them unporkable, uncapturable, w/o troops and ords so they cannt be used for anything exept furball. And dont count them in reset algorithm.
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And then Monday nite when the Rooks & Nits both at one point had Tank Town.....
did you bother to read what i responded too? i could care less the country, this statement was made, and wrong...
There have been exactly ZERO attempts by strat players to change the game to ruin it for furballers
FT is for furballers, was known to be for furballers, was known that one side could win war without ever touching them fields, but they were taken to make the furballers mad, to ruin thier fun.
lets not turn this into a country vs country thing, not what it is.
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Originally posted by Stang
ROFL, FesterMA only inhibits strat play if you can't deal with enemy planes, or are too impatient to fly buffs any higher than treetop level.
It would seem to me that strat play would consist of its root word, strategy. However, as we all know, this is far from the case. When a group of guys gets together and plans something and runs it (think Filth's buff missions), they are usually a spectacular success.
So do me a favor, don't call it strat play, becuase it isn't. Strategy is well thought out and executed in a precise way. Toolshed horde milkrunning isn't.
Get a grip, stang. Keep the anti-personal bombs to a minimum. (oooh, I coined a new phrase) If yo continue to make nasty, snide little comments, people will think you are a nasty, snide little person.
And before you tell me how little that reputation means to you, let me ask you why you feel the need to interject your two cents worth, if the community opinion means so little?
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Originally posted by MINNOW
AMEN! :aok
Who cares how someone else enjoys to play, just do what is fun for you. Toolshedders & Furrballers make the game fun even if it inconviences people.
I'd even disagree with the "inconvenience" bit, at least for me. I find it challenging and fun to try to outthink and outmaneuver the defenders (especially those last-minute lalas from the next field over) when I am attacking a field, and I also enjoy being the "spoiler" when I am on the defense.
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Originally posted by Toad
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Why because ACES HIGH was about AIR-TO-AIR COMBAT.
Ponder a while.
Pondered. I can't agree with it. I will bet real money that the reason that there was no strat in the beta version of AH was the software development cycle, not any desire to maintain the purity of your air quake experience.
Ponder on that one, toad.
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bt...it is really really simple... the strat guys need to affect the furballers game in order to have fun... the furballers couldn't care less about the strat guys except when they affect the furball.
give the furballers a palce to fight and they won't even know the mouse wielders exist until said maouse weilders come to ruin the furball game. Juat like when their moms made the other kids play with em... the mouse wielding toolshed battlers need the game contorted in such a way that they can make people play their game.
who ever herd of fighters needing buildings in order to take off? who ever heard of one man flying 3, 10 man crew bombers and having a god like view of everything and controlling all the guns with one button? vehicles sprouting from thin air?
furballers aren't playing realisticaly?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
bt...it is really really simple... the strat guys need to affect the furballers game in order to have fun... the furballers couldn't care less about the strat guys except when they affect the furball.
give the furballers a palce to fight and they won't even know the mouse wielders exist until said maouse weilders come to ruin the furball game. Juat like when their moms made the other kids play with em... the mouse wielding toolshed battlers need the game contorted in such a way that they can make people play their game.
who ever herd of fighters needing buildings in order to take off? who ever heard of one man flying 3, 10 man crew bombers and having a god like view of everything and controlling all the guns with one button? vehicles sprouting from thin air?
furballers aren't playing realisticaly?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
It's really all about how wonderful you are, and how much everybody else sucks, isn't it, lassie? There is certainly no logic or sense in your points.
Your contradictory arguments are this:
On one side, you say you need the MA for the "unpredictability factor". On the other hand, you say that the very existence of the other MA players is beneath your notice, unless they come within range of your guns.
Explain the dichtomy.
And, btw, I am really and truly sorry your mom had to hang a pork chop around your neck to get the dog to play with you. That's typical of inDUHvidualist players like you, though. You resent that other people can work together as a team to acheive goals, whereas you piss so many people off that they won't work with you.
You want to change the game? Provide leadership. Leadership has very little to do with smack talk and chest beating, which is all I see and read from you.
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It doesnt inconvience me.... But obviously it does inconvience some or would this thread even exist??
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Originally posted by MINNOW
It doesnt inconvience me.... But obviously it does inconvience some or would this thread even exist??
Heh..... A new thread about a shocking new problem. At least it will finally be resolved. :D
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no shubie... you missed the point yet again.... it's not that we resent that the ants can work together to achieve a worthless goal.... it's that we don't care about the goal so long as it doesn't affect us unduly.
You have to admit that without fighters your ants would have no game... without you.... fighters would have a better game.... case in point... the fightertown in the middle...
why would the mouse weilders even go there? explain that to me.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
no shubie... you missed the point yet again.... it's not that we resent that the ants can work together to achieve a worthless goal.... it's that we don't care about the goal so long as it doesn't affect us unduly.
You have to admit that without fighters your ants would have no game... without you.... fighters would have a better game.... case in point... the fightertown in the middle...
why would the mouse weilders even go there? explain that to me.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Oooh, cool facile swapping of terms there, lassie. Fighters are good, fighters are a challenge, fighters are fun. I use fighters to defend fields, and to attack other people.
Mindless furballing is what you're about, though. Yes, you use a fighter. But it's not about the tool, it's about how you use it. You choose to furball. I choose to use my fighter in a different framework. You think that because you are "better" at furballing than most people, you are somehow at a higher level of karmic development (or something like that) than the rest of the players. I, and most other players, take a different view.
Why do I think my view is better than yours? Because I don't seek you out, trying to make you change your gameplay to somehow match my desires. In fact, I prefer that you keep on doing what you enjoy so much. The flight sim stuff--not the nasty childish stuff you seem to enjoy more.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Pondered. I can't agree with it. I will bet real money that the reason that there was no strat in the beta version of AH was the software development cycle, not any desire to maintain the purity of your air quake experience.
Ponder on that one, toad.
You're just wrong. Again.
If anyone had kept the original description of the game posted on the website by HTC for a long, long time, you'd see just how wrong you are.
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:rofl :rolleyes: :rofl :rolleyes: :rofl
Igor, take this one to the "worn out" pile
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Originally posted by Toad
Think this way: There were no buffs in the beginning. There were no vehicles. No manned ack, no shore guns, no troops, no "fuel supplies", no "ord", no "barracks".... NONE of that BS.
Why because ACES HIGH was about AIR-TO-AIR COMBAT.
Ponder a while.
Yep, I agree...back in the day. The good old days. How things usta was. The original DOOM was great!....years ago. Things evolve. This Aces High isn't that old aces high. I would guess there are a lot more players now than then, with more diverse interests. Nostalgia is not a bad thing, but the past is past.
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Oh, Aces High changed all right... but the addition of those things didn't make it better.
And it is more than clear what the "original intent" of the game was. Well, it's probably not clear to the johnny-come-latelys.
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Originally posted by lazs2
who ever herd of fighters needing buildings in order to take off? who ever heard of one man flying 3, 10 man crew bombers and having a god like view of everything and controlling all the guns with one button? vehicles sprouting from thin air?
furballers aren't playing realisticaly?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Just to make a point. Whoever heard of fighters, and bombers for that matter, taking off through the bomb craters on the runway. How much "realisim" would you like? I sure that cratering the runway would effect fighters much more than bombers so is that a concession to the Quakers? By the way, the planes sprout from thin air spotted at the end of the runway with the engine cranking over. The vehicles you have to actually start the engines. Another concession?
*Devils Advocate*
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Ever hear of a "landing mat"?
My dad trained on a mile square field in texas that had no "runways". The pilots landed into the wind on the mat. Multiple simultaneous approaches by many airplanes were standard.
Ever seen those movies of Spits scrambling during the BoB? Line abreast takeoffs on a grassy field, not a runway?
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK lets face it......the MA is NEVER going to be perfect. On the other hand it DOES have MOST the ellements of this "IMHO" great game included. You want to furball, you can. You want to bomb the crap out of something, you can. You want to drive a tank, you can. No one can tell you NOT to. The MA is not there to fight the "war". It's there so everyone has a place to go and do what they do best. Furball, toolshed, pork run, drive tanks, talk smack, hang out, whatever.
The arena to fight the "war" is the Special Events Arena. That is where the structured campaigns take place. Friday Night Squad Ops, Close Escort, Snapshot, and all the other events that take place there, with the exception of the Racing Leauge which is just plain FUN for the sake of FUN.
If you want to play this game on a more realistic setting, i.e. missions with a clear objective, command structure, target asignments, and the like, try checking out those events. If you want to have a good time and do "whatever" go to the MA. Thats what it's there for.
Even though I might complain from time to time about the "gamey" aspect of the MA, everyone there pays their $14.95 a month same as I do to do what they please in there. Therefore who am I to complain? In the MA I'm nobody just like everyone else, I'm also the king of the world just like everyone else.
Well said. Besides real life issues limits online time for some people. So fighter town serves a purpose for these individuals.