Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Larry on October 20, 2005, 02:23:09 PM
-
Iv flown LW for years but Iv mostly been a 109/110 guy and havent really mastered the 190s. Flew with the JBz and they always flew the dora but once I last the alt I was prety much dead. Can someone mabey take me the the TA and show me some tips on how the get outa mess when youve lost the alt and speed.
-
What do you mean by "lost the alt"? Do you mean you are in the weeds, or that you're simply below the opponent but still have a cushion below you to work with?
I want to say you're thinking the former because you say you're out of speed as well. If that's the case... You can pray, or play "who can get slower" while trying to dodge their shots, or you can play "who can get closer to the trees", etc...
If you could get ManeTMP into the DA sometime and manage to get on his six when he's low in a tippy or FW or something, he'd show you a pretty mundane but frustratingly effective defense... He basically just gets sooo slow and sooo low and kinda "waves" out of your fire depending where your nose is.
At least that's what I think he was doing.
-
thats exactly what he does except not only does he make you overshoot, he shoots you as you go past also.
TK, just fly it like anything else. All planes are easy mode except the 152 and the yaks!
remember to chop throttle alot more than in allied planes to start your turns is all i have noticed. and dont try to rope a pony.
-
All i fly is the 190 A-5.I can show you some tricks of the trade.
Next time i see you we'll work on it.:aok
-
i fly the dora quite a bit. i also like not getting dead and landing. co-e, la7 can run down a dora on the deck given a bit of time. otherwise, i extend regain the advantage i squandered and then have a go at it again.
better pilots probably know how to force an enemy to squander their advantage after an initial advantage has diminished. or, the even better pilots simply out fly their enemy period. never much been one of the latter classes.
hap
-
co-e, la7 can run down a dora on the deck given a bit of time. otherwise, i extend regain the advantage i squandered and then have a go at it again.
On the deck,there in lies the problem.The 190 performs way better at higher altitudes.When fighting a La-7 at 10-K plus it is easier too force
him to make mistakes,because La-7s dont run well at high alts.
Burning off the forward tank in the 190 usually solves alot of issues
pilots have with the 190.Every person i have told that too,now flys the 190 and the 190 only.
Way back in AH-1 days everyone use to furball at 5-K plus,now its all down on the deck where you have no way of breaking off the fight to regain energy,if you do that you become a dirt torpedo.Where as at 20-K one can dive away and regain alt very easily.The 190 is very good at this sort of
fighting way up in the clouds.The German pilots of WW2 said that they loved the 190 because it could break of combat at will.
But thats just my 2 cents take it for what its worth.:aok
-
"Burn the main tank" -- yeah, it flies better then, because you've got a total of 1/8th a tank left after that.
EVERY plane flies better when they've got no gas at all weighing them down :P
-
Krusty 190 does not have a main tank.Aft,FWD tanks.Thats on the A-5.
The A-8 has 3 internal tanks.The 190 stores the majority of its fuel in the front tank.It cycles through the other tanks before it does the front.
-
The forward tank is the main tank. It holds 75% of all the gas in the plane. By burning the forward/main tank first you're just saying "Fly it with little gas in it, and it does well" -- which applies to every plane in the game.
-
well see there you cant tell somebody somethin who already knows everything,cant believe i forgot that........
-
Originally posted by AutoPilot
well see there you cant tell somebody somethin who already knows everything,cant believe i forgot that........
I'm not saying that Krusty knows everything... But I have heard from many FW pilots to burn the Aft tank first? I suppose I could have heard wrong?
-
Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not saying that Krusty knows everything... But I have heard from many FW pilots to burn the Aft tank first? I suppose I could have heard wrong?
Far from it. I don't know everything. I'm just pointing out the flaw in saying "the trick to flying the 190 is to fly it with no gas in the tanks!" -- because the same applies to every plane.
Meh
(*insert ambivelant shrugging emoticon here*)
-
The majority of the fuel is stored in the FWD tank not the AFT tank.
I usually take 50% onboard fuel and a drop tank.
from take off too 17-K at full wep auto climb.
once at 17-K FWD tank is at 50% and i switch over too drop tank.
so even if i do engage someone i dont have to drop the tank.
Everyone i have told this to now mainly flys the 190.
feels like i got DeJa Vu
-
Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not saying that Krusty knows everything... But I have heard from many FW pilots to burn the Aft tank first? I suppose I could have heard wrong?
Wasn't that something they fixed in one of the patches to AH2? I'm pretty sure that this was a well-known bug that has now been eliminated.
- oldman
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
Wasn't that something they fixed in one of the patches to AH2? I'm pretty sure that this was a well-known bug that has now been eliminated.
- oldman
You know that could definately be true... I've been gone longer than I thought I guess :)
-
It wasn't a bug, it was just the preferred fuel burn order. I flew the A8 for my primary ride in AH1. As a dedicated 190 guy, I burned the AFT tank first since that helped improve stability. You still had plenty of fuel left. So technically, everyone is correct. The plane WILL fly better with less gas, however, you should burn the AFT tank first for better stability. In AH2, HiTech put the AFT tank first, that way it was less confusing.
It's kinda the same argument in the P-47N. If you take 75 or 100% fuel, the wings have fuel in them. So, I take 50% and 1 (or 2) drop tanks. That way, I don't have to worry about fuel in the wings. If for some reason I DO have fuel in the wings, I always use Shift + F to burn the wing tanks first since that helps roll significantly. Good luck with the 190!
-
The plane WILL fly better with less gas,
That was not what i was trying to get at.The 190 in particular when the fuel
is not even bothered with is very top heavy and does not want
to manuver well.By letting the fuel out of the front tank it allows the aircraft
too fly more smoothly.
-
Hi Autopilot,
So in other words, you burn the fuel from the front tank first to move the CG of the plane aft? That makes sense. Similarly, the P51 should have the aux tank burned first or it will be less stable. I like the A5 as well. As an aside, are there any 'items of note' or tips to landing the A5? When I approach with full flaps and throttled back the plane gets unstable just before touchdown.
Regards,
Malta
-
As an aside, are there any 'items of note' or tips to landing the A5? When I approach with full flaps and throttled back the plane gets unstable just before touchdown.
Yes.Hold down the spacebar as you are touching down so that the brakes are on while landing.It helps stabalize it and keeps it from bouncing.
The Ki-61-Tei is the same way and prolly IMHO the hardest aircraft in this
game to land.It bounces all over the place.
On a side note;
The A-5's flaps will not come at 250 MPH 15-K or lower.Try climbing up over
15-K and deploying flaps at around 230 MPH.Kinda crazy it has combat flaps but only at 15-K or better.
-
surely you dont want any mass at the back. its better to be nose heavy in most planes when it comes to turn fighting, E fighting or even BnZ i would have though. thats how i do it any how.....always burn wing tanks - aft tanks - main/fwd tanks in that order.
having fuel in the ings and tail is a good way to catch fire also.
ever noticed that a plane with wing tanks will set on fire from one direct 20mm hit to the tank?
try draining the wing tanks on a plane totaly dry, then see if you catch fire that sortie.
leaving even a drop of fuel in the wing tanks is going to seriously increase the fire risk in real life, and i always considered it to be the same in AH2.
-
i posted this in the landing section hoe it helps, applus to all planes not just the F4U we were talking about
1 more thing you can do to help is to raise your flaps back up all the way as soon as your ready to flare, that basically takes all the lift off of the wing and actually puts pressure on it ( pushing you down ). I usually come in riding full flaps and right as I flare or maybe just a split second after I do ( right b4 wheels touchdown ) I raise my flaps all the way back up and hit both brakes... I have never tumbled one yet or any plane for that matter, I use this method with any plane, also very usefull for cv landing if you don't have or miss the hook... Sometimes if I need to stop extra quick I'll turn off the engine as well... I would suggest doing some touch and go's practicing using flaps do dump the wing lift..... If you are leaving the flaps extended or down while trying to stop on the runway you are landing incorrectly. Because while you are trying to slow down the wings are still trying to lift the plane back up, thats why you see allot of people skipping or hopping as they land, there wheels are on the ground and there smashing the brakes, the only prob is the plane is still goin over 50-60mph and the wings still have allot of lift, so the plane is trying to climb and get airborne again. in some planes such as zekes and nikis this is criticle if u want to stop quick, because those planes will skip and bounce down the runway until you get under about 40mph.... with the F4U this also allows you to pull back on the stick once you get wheels down which will help keep u from tumbling nose over. if u had flaps extended and u pulled back on the stick the plane would mosst likely lift off the runway, but if your flaps are up, it will help keep your tail wheel on the ground and also keeps it straight so your not having to use differential brake or rudder constantly to stay in the mid of the runway... Using this method you only need about 1/8 of the runway to stop... if I'm reloading i'll just glide the 1st 3/4 of the runway then i'll raise my flaps and release all that lift and bammo i'm already at the refuel pad, no need for that 10 minute taxi... play around with it enough and eventually you will be able to land right next to the pad on the small cross road that the pad sits on that connects to the big runway... Also works in reverse if you are taking off, if u need to up quickly just drop some flaps and that will add extra lift to the wings, just remember they are down so that when you want to auto climb or whatever remember to raise em back up... The norm is to not use any flaps during takeoff, but if you are rearming a lanc on a cv they are a must in order to get airborne again
-
How do you select which fuel tank you want to use? I read that burning the FWD tank first is best but what is the command to switch tanks?
ONEiJAQ
-
shift-f, i believe. ck the keyboard commands via the help page. the planes are set to shift tanks automatically unless you manually drain the tanks. using shift-f you can also return to the automatic funneling of gas. the gas gauge "tank source" reads in one color for manual another for automatic and there used to be an "a-" to indicate automatic flow.
hap
-
Shift F for fuel selection.White is Auto and yellow in manual.
-
I tried the shift f and it worked. I found out that once you go to manual it won't switch tanks unless you make the switch. I was flying along trying to manuver on a spit when my engine quit.... took only a couple seconds to sort it out but got my tail shot off in the mean time. It was kinda funny and I more than likely would of gotten flamed anyway to no big deal. Thanks for the help.
ONEiJAQ
-
Originally posted by AutoPilot
The majority of the fuel is stored in the FWD tank not the AFT tank.
that is incorrect in at least the Dora.
the AFT tank is almost 2 times as big as the FWD tank in the 190 D 9
TK, do a search in this forum for a recent post by me talkinf about the dora in a 190 A5 help thread.
i describe sort fo the "wallow" manuever they are talking about with maneTMP and others. i have used it many many times in the past. i am bad with words though, so you kind of need some imagination when i am describing it LOL.
it isn't going to work 100% of the time, but if you take what is mentioned, and add a few variations of it, you can at least get away many times to reset, especially in a horde. if you get lucky in a big furball, you can pull out, someone else will dive on the guy chasing, or the guy chasing will pull off to get an easier target (rare, but hey you can wish :rofl)
alone, in a 1-1, well, get REALLY good riding the plane tipped 90 deg and 120 MPH stall edge. just get REAL used to using the rudder to do every manuever, and use the wings just to stop you from flipping over.
-
The new 190s have a wonderful gas gague. It has a small red needle on the outer edge. This indicates your entire fuel load, not just the tank selected. In the 190As, when you burn your aux and aft tanks and ONLY have 100% in your front/main tank left, this "little red needle" is still at 60%-75%. By far most of the gas is in your front/main tank in 190As.
From memory, the same goes for the dora. Check it out. It's a lovely gas gague and I'd love to see it on every plane (but that wouldn't be historical)
-
Originally posted by bigsky406
I tried the shift f and it worked. I found out that once you go to manual it won't switch tanks unless you make the switch.
Note the color of the label when you're on auto. There is white and there is yellow. When you SHIFT F you will change the color (indicating manual). Keep shifting until it goes back. I can't remember right now which is manual and which is auto. But you toggle in a circle. If you go all the way around it will go back to auto. :aok
-
Originally posted by Krusty
From memory, the same goes for the dora. Check it out.
i have seen it and though i have not flown in a month i did fly the dora for over 7000 kills and almost always my main ride in AH for over 3 years.
trust me, in the new 190's they drain the AFT first (no AUX) then the FWD.
when flying when it got to the FWD i knew i had to start RTB because i had only maybe 7 min flight tops at MIL power.
back in AH 1 it would drain the FWD first, and you could empty it before 20k on climbout.
-
EDIT: The question for me was not which tank drained first, but which had more gas. /EDIT
Wow... well I just did a test and we were both off a bit.
Took a plane up 100% no DT, fuel burn at 20x, when the tank switched I noted fuel left on e6b.
Dora: before eng start: 139
aft tank dries up, auto switches to main: 61
A-5: before eng start: 139
aft tank dries up, auto switches to main: 61
A-8: before eng start: 169
aux tank dries up, auto switches to main: 139
aft tank dries up, auto switches to main: 61
Interesting. I was off. I thought that one tank had significantly more gas than the other, but it looks almost like a 50/50 split
I think I thought this was so because I rarely took 100% (75% was good for me) so the aft was always lower, and I assumed that the rest was in the aux tank (which only the a-8 has).
Good to know!!
-
cc i was mentioning the burn because thats how i watched the fuel is all...
those tests mean the AFT holds 18 more "units" of fuel than the FWD, 29% more (if i did that math right ROFL)
R*B=P
X*61=18
18/61=.29....
X=29
well 18 is 29% of 61
-
Well 60 and 60 is 120, so at 139 it's pretty damn close to 50/50
-
new math: 61 / 139 = 0.4388[...]
So Front = 43% total, aft must be 57% total (14% more)
-
18 is 13% of the total volume, but i dont know if we are doing this right....
if you want to know how much more than the other tank in volume (independant of the total as if they are 2 seperate units) i think the math i did is the right way, but if you want the % of the total volume each is, yours is right.
i'd be interested in what the fuel burn is at MA settings, full power no wep.
i want to say it uses something like 180 units / hour but i may be wrong.
that number would let us figure out the time in minutes each tank had. (more important in the MA IMHO.
either way this is way off the topic of the 190-d9 dogfighting tips :rofl
since i can not run the game @ work, and only offline @ home, i am out of this now.
-
Oh, I was going by "14% more... of the total" rather than "18% more than the front tank" -- to me it's too close to quibble. 15 gallons is a very small amount :)
EDIT: Gallons... liters?? Whatever -- I think the E6B shows gallons on all planes, as it rates things in GPH.
-
trust me, in the new 190's they drain the AFT first (no AUX) then the FWD.
The 190-A-8 has an aux tank and it carry's more fuel.
The D model IMHO is like a spit V or a G-10,La-7....Dweeb ride.
Not saying people who fly them are dweebs,they are just easier planes to handle thats all.I like my game play too have a degree of difficulty.
-
dora's a dweeb ride because people run. It doesn't handle better. G10 isn't a dweeb ride, in my opinion. 109s are harder to fly than most.
EDIT: Sorry, that was off-topic :)
-
dora's a dweeb ride because people run
From what i have been reading(German archives)the german LW pilots loved the 190 for its ability to break off combat at will.They did it so why not we do it?Now keep in mind i am not covering the "HO and GO"
aspect.When I am engaged and lose energy i break off combat manuvers
to regain E and approach fight again.
-
it is only a dweeb ride in the hands of a dweeb :p :lol
personally, i flew it below 5k generally, and spent all my time "learning" ACM in the weeds with all the spit V's :aok
Morph made a film for me, "to the top" IIRC, you can see how i generally flew it.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
dora's a dweeb ride because people run. It doesn't handle better. G10 isn't a dweeb ride, in my opinion. 109s are harder to fly than most.
I don't find running dweebish at all, in fact, it must've been the best thing to do when you think you're being out-matched
Also, fast planes don't turn that well, maybe the "dweeb-ride" just gets some seperation, and attack again