Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKSWulfe on July 12, 2001, 12:30:00 PM
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http://www.sim-arena.com/il2/vid5.asf (http://www.sim-arena.com/il2/vid5.asf)
Notice the Fw-189 flying straight and level despite the fact that it's horizontal stabilizer is no longer attached to the plane?
-SW
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The tail-gunner is a true samurai - he keeps on shhoting after "rama" loses her wing :)
Reminds me of good old WB when a B-25 tail-gunner keeps shooting at me flying past my plane in a torn-away rear fuselage :-)
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Did the Soviets use some sort of phosphor that burned green for their tracers in real life?
Or are those planes equipped with Imperial laser cannons similar to TIE Fighters??? ;)
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No, TIE Fighters were equiped with licensed Berezins :)
AFAIK Oleg puts much attention to details like tracer colours. I remember him speaking about different colours of Soviet, German and even Italian tracers. Soviet Army really uses green tracers.
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Only game having tracers like in authentic films is B-17 II. I hope Il2 fixes that :)
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Originally posted by Boroda:
No, TIE Fighters were equiped with licensed Berezins :)
AFAIK Oleg puts much attention to details like tracer colours. I remember him speaking about different colours of Soviet, German and even Italian tracers. Soviet Army really uses green tracers.
Thank you for the answer, my question was serious. It's just that they DO look like they're playing X-wing vs TIE fighter! ;)
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Staga, have you fired an automatic gun in real life?
Tracers do not look like that. It's vibrations from the guns firing (gun cameras were placed close to the guns) that caused the tracers to appear to wiggle.
-SW
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No one cares to comment on the fact that the plane is continuing to fly, even though the horizontal stabilizer is blown off?
The tracers could be multi-colored... but the plane is STILL flying level without a horizontal stabilizer!
-SW
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it didn't get shot off, it was your imagination. :p
wait... OMG!!! that thing is still flying level after losing the stabilizer!!! but, swulfe... it just FEEEEELS right!!! ;)
it's beta... if it was the final product that was shipped and sitting in stores, then I'd be a little more miffed. :)
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Right Nifty, I agree it's just beta.
BUT (there's always one of those, aren't there? ;-), that is an important part of the FM. Which leaves questions in my mind, which is more important-> FM or eye candy?
I hope FM is more important, if I wanted eye candy I'd play WWII Fighters or FS:SDOE! ;-)
-SW
EDIT: Added in FS:SDOE because I happen to own a copy of that! :eek:
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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hopefully it's the FM that's more important. ;) I wish them luck, in either case. :) Maybe they just did eye candy first because it's easier to get done than tweaking the FM. They wanted it to look GOOD while tweaking the FM, yeah that's it! "Damn, the FM just isn't quite the way we want it yet..." "Yeah, but it looks GREAT!"
Speaking of FMs... WWIIOL is supposedly making some changes to their FM in the next patch. Drag calculations will be improved as well as better rudder authority. Whether this creates a more realistic FM, we'll have to see. err, I'll have to see and tell ya about it. :D
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Yeah, I'd like to hear how that turns out Nifty.
My C466 for some reason can't handle sub-Half-Life engine graphics that WW2Ol uses... ;)
S!
-SW
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SW is right, with the stabilizer gone the plane should pitch up violently and immediately.
Boroda is it WB or your host that causes the B-25 problem? My final sortie on that host ended when a 109 flew in front of me, backwards, and shot me in the face. I called him a communistic imbecile and logged off. :)
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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SW if you count light MG, AK-47 and RK-62 as an automatic then answer is yes.
Night shootings with tracers were fun, specially if you loaded clips with only tracers. It was nice sight to see all those tracers bouncing around the sky after they hit rocks in ground.
btw almost every adult male and some female person in Finland has been in army and all of them had their own assault-rifle in duty.
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Yeah, I'd like to hear how that turns out Nifty.
My C466 for some reason can't handle sub-Half-Life engine graphics that WW2Ol uses... ;)
S!
-SW
*ROFL* I amused myself the other night in the game. was defending a town in a A13. I was swinging the turret around looking for panzers, trucks or just idiot soldiers, and sure enough, some German soldier was trying to run in the compound! I hit him with the machinegun. Swung the turret around and what is this??? a German truck trying to go past me??? Fire a AP round into the engine block and the truck stops. German soldiers start popping out (this is really close to me as well) and I basically mowed down 4 soldiers! They didn't even have time to move! :D
Oh, the lag was funny. At least I hope it was the lag that was causing the 109s to fly into and under the ground! :eek:
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Originally posted by Staga:
SW if you count light MG, AK-47 and RK-62 as an automatic then answer is yes.
Night shootings with tracers were fun, specially if you loaded clips with only tracers. It was nice sight to see all those tracers bouncing around the sky after they hit rocks in ground.
Tracers have a straight flight path, don't normally violently change direction then change direction again to move forward at the same velocity.
Which is why I say that B17II's tracers are funky. If you rip out the tracer file in one of the omf mods, you can find out exactly what the various tracer effects are.
One of them is a funky tracer effect that is really wierd, something you would only see from a cameras point of view due to vibration.
-SW
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Just guessing I would say it was more of a bug in the AI than the FM.
Like the AI not being "informed" it has lost that part. I remember something like it could be seen in EAW, where bombers with engines shot out could still keep up with the rest in the formation, until suddenly they changed from "formation-AI" (to save CPU) to "individual-AI" program and fell behind fast.
I am no programming guy, so don't know the technical terms.
Snef
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Snefens, I know what you are talking about. It happened when you smoked one or both engines (not shot out.. just smoking), the planes that were smoked actually became faster than the planes without smoked engines and would extend away from the formation of planes that weren't damaged.
But if you shot out one of their engines (prop stops spinning), they break out of formation and stuff.
Now, if you shoot off a wing then the plane would go down. No arguing about that, that is all part of the FM.
The AI is seperate of the FM, it a part is missing the plane should fall out of the sky despite what the AI is trying to do.
It should go like this:
Horizontal Stabilizer shot off.
Values that Horiz Stab produces go to zero and produces no effect.
Plane loses it's rear lift factor and stability factors.
AI attempts to correct, but with the missing variables it can't do anything except twist the controls while falling out of the sky.
-SW
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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well if you ask me, its to much 3rd. person view ;)
I would preffer to see more action from the pilot view.
Gh0stFT
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Actually, I think the plane lurched the stab was taken off. I'll have to look again at the film.
Well, it didn't lurch, but it did start rolling a bit, then it was corrected/countered. So this would lead me to believe that the stabilizer loss was taken into account by the FM calculations. Perhaps the effects of losing the stab in the calculation is what is off/incorrect.
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Originally posted by Staga:
SW if you count light MG, AK-47 and RK-62 as an automatic then answer is yes.
Night shootings with tracers were fun, specially if you loaded clips with only tracers. It was nice sight to see all those tracers bouncing around the sky after they hit rocks in ground.
btw almost every adult male and some female person in Finland has been in army and all of them had their own assault-rifle in duty.
Geesh, good thing Jihad and his liberal cronies don't live there....they'd be trying to pry those guns away from you irresponsible folks....or tax the daylights out of you :D <jest jest>
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Geesh, good thing Jihad and his liberal cronies don't live there....they'd be trying to pry those guns away from you irresponsible folks....or tax the daylights out of you <jest jest>
When have I ever made an anti-gun argument, or made comments about taxation other than to legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them?
<loads AKS-47 and SKS Paratrooper, takes aim on Le~Pews post> :p
P.S.
I'm not a liberal - just a realist.
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Funked (or can I call you Misha? :)), it was a memory from the times when I flew at the REAL WB server, when the grass was greener, water was wetter, and +HT+ and PYRO ruled that world.
I can't remember when I flew sober that time :) Maybe it was just the alcohol haze? :)
As for our server - we upgraded the connectivity and one brilliant guy from Ukraine wrote a great connection manager for FH, so I think that you'll not experience such problems again. And we have much more players now, since the German free WB server was closed this Monday...
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LePaul,
Have you seen the tax rate in Finland?
You'd scream. :p
BTW, this Liberal (me) supports gun rights. I just despise the idiotic "arguements" (read: lies) used by both sides.
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Edit:
I'm too drunk to speak....
Sorry.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Boroda ]
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Dam I explained it wrong:
Automatic-rifles we were using weren't "ours" but property of army but everyone of us was given his "own" rifle by army.
Thought some ppl in reserve (Already done their time in army) I know have a Ak-47 or Norinco assault-rifle (semi-autos) and are using them in shooting ranges and in some reserve-organizations camps.
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The tracers in assault rifles actually look like lazers. Only thing is their low muzzle velocity, so they do a big arc and when you hold that thing in your hand shooting full auto, the bullets go allover.
If you shoot with normal 1 bullet at time, you can easily lay all your bullets in 50cm area from prone position at 150 meters.
Now if youre seen the tracer lightsow put up by LMG, you know how lazer wars are going to look like in 2100..=) Those bullets go straight and FAST even when shot in 5 bullet bursts. When they hit the sandwall, the tracers bounce straight up looking very unrealistic.
I, like almost every finnish man, have served in army and ive sleeped MANY nights in tent with rifle in my sleeping bag warming me up.. ;)
Thats why your personal rifle is nicknamed "wife" in Finnish army.. :)
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Originally posted by jihad:
<loads AKS-47 and SKS Paratrooper, takes aim on Le~Pews post> :p
I still haven't posted here...yet :D
Cheers
Pepe
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I've seen the movie. I notice the following:
- Very fluid movement.
- Precise shoot landing spots. It seemed that each shot landing on the FW made it fall bits in its precise landing spot.
- It would go with snefens. I see a bit of the Hrz. stab still attached to the left boom, dunno if that could explain. Besides that, the FW pitches violently when back section of left boom blows, as if THEN is when the stab goes away.
- I am stunned with what happens from that moment on. Did you see the spin? From my point of view, the spinning fall is very well modelled. From the first pitch movement to the final one, where FW seems to stabilize the spin, falling with its no winged boom pointed to the earth....and the fuel leaks...hmmm. I really liked it.
This is a pretty big post so Jihad can aim easily. :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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EDIT: Added in FS:SDOE because I happen to own a copy of that! :eek:
SWulfe - shut up, you are not the only one! :D
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From my observations, .50 cal tracers go down range straight (hopefully in short bursts)and without the heavy "rocket trails" in AH. I have seen the trails in various gun camera film (RAF? or Luft.?)but not in RL -- as far as I can remember :) Maybe it was an old phosporous compound. When they hit something the round (or most likely just the phosphor) frequently "ricoches" up in the air.
I did see a gun firing where the barrel was shot out. The rounds spiraled down range much like the rail gun effect from Quake 2, only much faster and tighter.
Charon
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The smoke trails are left by the burning phosphorous. Yes, the AH smoke trails are wrong.. they aren't big enough and don't spiral.
The spiral is formed by the fact that bullets/tracers spin down the grooves of the gun barrell so that the bullets maintain a straight flight path.
-SW
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Personally, I never saw ANY smoke trails when firing .50s (my main weapon on the M-113), just smoke from the cartridges. We even lit up a full belt of tracers on occasion (not a good thing to do really, but WTH) and it looked like a laser :) At night, though, you could see unburnt powder grains floating back down the barrel and sparking and crackling.
The spiral I talk about was the exception, not the rule, and came from a barrel that had been burned out to the point where there were barely any groves left – a smoothbore M2 :) The round itself visibly began to corkscrew as soon as it left the barrel and continued in ever wider spirals as it went down range -- a radius (hope its the right term) of several feet or more in the spiral. I still can't figure out how the various forces interacted to create this effect, but then I'm a writer and not a mathmatician.
Charon
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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Uh I'm shamed: I can remember only four last digits from my RK's serial-number...
Thought I guess they're not going wake me up in middle of the night and ask questions like that after 13 years in "reserve"... :D
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My use of ANY was perhaps a bit too extreme where smoke trails are concerned. In thinking about it a lot, and doing some offline shooting and looking at a few films, very light smoke trails (as seen by the firer) may not be too far off.
Still, the only time smoke trails ever registered to me mentally when firing the weapon was when the phosphorous would occasionally dislodge from the round and go bouncing around. What set me going, I suppose, was the heavy appearence of smoke I sometimes see when others are firing at D 1+ from my aircraft.
Charon
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
The smoke trails are left by the burning phosphorous. Yes, the AH smoke trails are wrong.. they aren't big enough and don't spiral.
The spiral is formed by the fact that bullets/tracers spin down the grooves of the gun barrell so that the bullets maintain a straight flight path.
-SW
Actually, they spin to keep from tumbling :p
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I belive thare are different kind of tracers.Some are lit up,some will only trail smoke.
there`s a guncam film of a RAF (it`s from cockpit,I dunno wether it`s spit or hurc)fighter shooting at a formation of He111s.
I saw it a million times,and I can`t see no tracer bullets,only smoke trailing the bullets.
Il2`s tracers are the closest I`ve seen so far to the guncam films,but they`re still not perfect.Hopefully they ill fix em up by the time it`s released.
(http://members.home.net/fhmen-temp/_private/190.jpg)
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I've seen that too Caligula, and also on some Korean war footage (high alt F-86)where the trails showed up well. At the same time I've see gun camera footage with virtually no smoke and the jittery tracers from the vibrating camera that SWolfe spoke about. Maybe heavy trails has something to do with atmospheric conditions, or the use of incendary rounds, which I don't believe were linked when I was firing (ball and tracer only). Still, certainly not a major issue in any case.
Charon
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Two observations:
1) I don't think I've ever been in a BB with so many people who have (or have had) first hand knowledge of automatic weapons. Draw your own conclusions, but I think that's pretty funny, in a cool sort of way!
2) In my minds eye, reveiwing a lifetime of guncam footage from WW2, I can remember both effects...smoke AND/OR bouncing tracers caused by vibration...it seems to me subjectively that maybe ambient light level in flight would have a LOT to do with how those trails appear to a camera. But I guess the crux of it is this...some of us ( a few) have firsthand eyeball experience of tracers coming out of nearby wingtips at altitude in combat. Part (I think) of the programmer magic is maybe not always perfect realism, but our EXPECTATION of what that reality is? See what I mean?
But my inner twelve year old says,"Take out the Thunderbolt Story video RIGHT NOW, and just enjoy the stuff blowing up in the countryside below."
Hehehhee :D
PapaH
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great film!
Good stuff!