Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on October 23, 2005, 09:30:35 PM
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If ever there was a recipe to ruin a great thing, UN oversight of the internet is just the ticket.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/10/20/congress.internet.reut/index.html
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NWIH
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Originally posted by Eagler
NWIH
What he said
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You know the first thing the UN would do if they got their grubby, theiving hands on the reigns would be to figure out how to tax the hell out of the "rich" countries who use the internet.
There are only two reasons I can think of that would would motivate the UN to want control.:
1. Tax
2. Sensorship to "protect" countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and China by blocking content.
What's their beef with how it's run now? Is something not working that they could fix?
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F the UN, they have royally screwed up just about everything they have gottien involved in.
Why would the US turn over the internet? We invented it, we control it, and everyone has access to it. What would be the gain?
Hell no, dont let it go.
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Apparently it's nothing else than moving already existing controls from ICANN to the UN.
Already thought the topic was about something more serious but it was an over reaction instead.
I understand the problem that some countries have with the US based ICANN and they want to have an international organization in its place.
Looks like it could be something else in place of the UN as well, but something not tied to a single country.
This kind of issues becomes ever more relevant as the internet keeps growing and should be under discussion.
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al gore invented the internet just after he invented the light bulb and powered flight. if you outlanders don't pipe down he'll stop the internet and take back the licenses for flying and the manufacture of light bulbs. now behave yourselves or else.
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Thought we already told em "No"
Its ours. We invented it. we created it.
Let them form their own intrnet
Ok We can give control of the Net to the UN so long as we get 100% control of the UN
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ok We can give control of the Net to the UN so long as we get 100% control of the UN
Now there's a good fracking idea!
I say screw the U.N. oil for food bastiges.
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Fix what's not broken?
What does public information have to do with government?
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Far be it from me to stand in the way of a good lynching, but what Fishu said - and it's not actually even the UN's idea or the UN proposing changes..
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Originally posted by Dago
we control it
No you don't. The whole concept of the Internet in its early beginnings was to decentralise information so that if one node took a hit, information could be rerouted. Even by 2000, there were over 200 million nodes in 246 countries. No country is central to its function. That would be like saying that "the US controls the world telephone system", which clearly it does not. As fishu said, and I quote from the article: Though no one country controls the Internet as a whole, the U.S. Commerce Department maintains final authority over the domain-name system that matches easy-to-remember names like "example.com" with the Internet Protocol numbers that are assigned to each computer on the Internet.
- only the domain name registration is centralised, as it would have to be for the reasons quoted.
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How would it improve the internet?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thought we already told em "No"
Its ours. We invented it. we created it.
Let them form their own intrnet
Does that mean we outsiders can take back the things we invented.. like WWW, IRC... and so on? Like.. leave americans without a World Wide Web.
(IRC was originally invented by finns and the first WWW application was by finns, but later remade by a non-finn who was inspirated by the finns WWW model)
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No way, the French made it happen. Minitel and all.. remember?
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porn invented the internet.
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the UN needs to go away. It's only purpose is to gain more and more power.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the UN needs to go away. It's only purpose is to gain more and more power.
Gain more and more power? hmm... shouldn't the US go away too, even more so than the UN?
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Originally posted by Fishu
Gain more and more power? hmm... shouldn't the US go away too, even more so than the UN?
:lol
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Countries that censor online content could use the forum to ban free expression elsewhere, he said.
I don't want any government controlling this.......
This could also give a country a way to protect trade and business(so expect Euro's to be in full support of this)...
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so fishu... you do realize that it is us against them? Yep... If I were a furiner... I would want the US to go away..
As an American... I want the UN to go away.
I realize that many tiny little has been countries see the UN as the only way that they can ever have a say again about how powerful countries run their own government but.... they need to face it... they are irellevant..
and a good thing too... most of em did a terrible job when they had power.
lazs
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The real trouble is the "I" in ICANN stand for Incompetence.
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Originally posted by storch
al gore invented the internet...
SNOPED (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)
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Originally posted by Fishu
Does that mean we outsiders can take back the things we invented.. like WWW, IRC... and so on? Like.. leave americans without a World Wide Web.
(IRC was originally invented by finns and the first WWW application was by finns, but later remade by a non-finn who was inspirated by the finns WWW model)
Please do, as an old timer who used the internet prior to the World Wide Web I can easily say it was a better place IMO.
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Originally posted by Torque
porn invented the internet.
Not true. The military "invented" the internet. Pron gave it "meaning".
:D
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Far be it from me to stand in the way of a good lynching, but what Fishu said - and it's not actually even the UN's idea or the UN proposing changes..
If control of the naming conventions was transferred to the UN, do you really thing those idiots would wait to start making changes?
It's workin just fine like it is.
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Originally posted by Dago
we control it,
No. You do not :) It's decentralized. Only you control is North-American domain system. All others is under control of local organisations.
IMHO this is the first step to create new tax system. The first thay will want to get is tax for domain name registration. The second: tax for using. And so on.
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As of late the UN is only good for handing out food, water,and medical supplies.
Wait there not even good at that. Can anyone say "oil for food program".
Bronk
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
If control of the naming conventions was transferred to the UN, do you really thing those idiots would wait to start making changes?
It's workin just fine like it is.
I don't know what they would do, but as I read from the article, the UN isn't the only option.
What these other countries wants, is an organization that can't be governed just by one country.
It might be working fine as it is, but for how long.
The question might not be relevant today, but why wait till it is too late if some people see bad signs in the current system.
I'm nowhere saying that ICANN should be transfered to an organization which is felt more neutral in the world, because I don't really know the background of the issue.
However as far as I know about the issue it could be a good idea to discuss about it.
Simply playing ignorant over the issue isn't going to help at all, on the contrary.
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Originally posted by beet1e
No you don't. The whole concept of the Internet in its early beginnings was to decentralise information so that if one node took a hit, information could be rerouted. Even by 2000, there were over 200 million nodes in 246 countries. No country is central to its function. That would be like saying that "the US controls the world telephone system", which clearly it does not. As fishu said, and I quote from the article: - only the domain name registration is centralised, as it would have to be for the reasons quoted.
BALONEY! The early concept of the internet was DARPANET, a method of communications between dissimilar mainframe computing systems. The Internet goes back to the 1960s, FYI.
And it was a wholly US invention--up to the mid-90s. The whole gamut, including HTTP, TCP/IP, RFCs, etc... International participation has brought us many things, such as Nigerian Money Transfer Schemes, Dutch hackers, and so many other wonderful additions to the system.
Why should I trust the UN to manage domain name servers (that's what this is really about, you know, the root servers)? Have they ever managed anything efficiently? What's wrong witht the current setup, other than the fact that us nasty Yankee running dog imperialists are in charge? Has anyone, anywhere ever been denied access to the internet's services through the offices of the US Government? I think not. China, now--China has denied access to the internet to Chinese citizens.
Do I want China to have a say in how the internet works? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!
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So what part of NO did they not understand?
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Are the US censoring anything?
Has anyone read up on the motives for this?
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Originally posted by Fishu
I don't know what they would do, but as I read from the article, the UN isn't the only option.
What these other countries wants, is an organization that can't be governed just by one country.
It might be working fine as it is, but for how long.
The question might not be relevant today, but why wait till it is too late if some people see bad signs in the current system.
I'm nowhere saying that ICANN should be transfered to an organization which is felt more neutral in the world, because I don't really know the background of the issue.
However as far as I know about the issue it could be a good idea to discuss about it.
Simply playing ignorant over the issue isn't going to help at all, on the contrary.
Once you "agree to discuss an idea" you have really agreed to the premise that something is wrong and "has to be changed". The invitation is the pretext to a bait and switch session where you find out you have already agreed to the change by accepting the invitation. Other wise, why did you agree to discuss the idea?
It still aint broken. The rest of the world who's complaining that it needs to be discussed wants control of it. If you notice from the article, the EU has made the decision to no longer accept the validity of the ICANN conventions. Having their own regional conventions means they can tax internet activity and criminalise communications content. Some of you may not know that you can get fined or thrown in jail in the EU now for quoting or publicly speaking parts of the Bible.
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Originally posted by rshubert
BALONEY! The early concept of the internet was DARPANET, a method of communications between dissimilar mainframe computing systems. The Internet goes back to the 1960s, FYI.
I know - the internet goes back to 1968. The first node was UCLA. The communication between dissimilar computing systems would have been dealt with by TCP/IP, but that came along later. - 1983?
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By the way, whats broken with the internet such that it is no longer a wonderful tool for unlimited freedom of expression, speech, ideas, and commerce?
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Originally posted by bustr
Once you "agree to discuss an idea" you have really agreed to the premise that something is wrong and "has to be changed". The invitation is the pretext to a bait and switch session where you find out you have already agreed to the change by accepting the invitation. Other wise, why did you agree to discuss the idea?
It still aint broken. The rest of the world who's complaining that it needs to be discussed wants control of it. If you notice from the article, the EU has made the decision to no longer accept the validity of the ICANN conventions. Having their own regional conventions means they can tax internet activity and criminalise communications content. Some of you may not know that you can get fined or thrown in jail in the EU now for quoting or publicly speaking parts of the Bible.
Do you know that throught the ICANN the US already Tax ?
Originally posted by bustr
By the way, whats broken with the internet such that it is no longer a wonderful tool for unlimited freedom of expression, speech, ideas, and commerce?
It never was free.
woops !Cut'n paste error
last sentence didn't belong to this post ... in fact it even didn't belong to this BBS :D
<= le Suck
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Originally posted by beet1e
I know - the internet goes back to 1968. The first node was UCLA. The communication between dissimilar computing systems would have been dealt with by TCP/IP, but that came along later. - 1983?
Actually, the first protocol used (from 1969 on, when ARPANET went online) was something called Network Control Program, or NCP. TCP became the "official" transport protocol in 1973.
But we digress. What is so wrong about the country that developed the internet retaining control of it? Why the HELL should we turn it over to an "international group" that may (or may not) be as good a steward of this important resource?
I know--give us Britain's share of the North Sea oil fields, and we will manage them for you. Trust us. We only have the entire world's best interests in mind. Really.
We wouldn't abuse that power, no siree.
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Originally posted by straffo
Do you know that throught the ICANN the US already Tax ?
It never was free.
In the bible belt perhaps , but not here.
ICANN charges a fee for domain registration. It's not what I would call expensive. It also covers the costs of ICANN (registation, root servers, etc.) and very little else.
In the USA, the phone companies install and pay for the physical layers of the internet. When you (in France) register a domain, the transport of data to and from the root servers costs money. ICANN pays the phone companies for that transport.
The rest of ICANN's budget comes from US taxpayers. Like me.
What's this about the internet not being a place for free exchange of information? Who is shutting down your website? Or limiting access to you? It doesn't happen here. Even illegal activities are discussed on the 'net. Not very smart, since the authorities can see the information, too, and use it to make arrests. BUT, we Americans are still fairly picky about free speech. You might get criticized for saying something, but you still have the right to say it.
Has that changed in France? If so, TAKE BACK YOUR COUNTRY!!!
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Originally posted by rshubert
But we digress. What is so wrong about the country that developed the internet retaining control of it? Why the HELL should we turn it over to an "international group" that may (or may not) be as good a steward of this important resource?
I don't think it's quite like that. The Internet has evolved to allow globalisation of commerce. The WWW came long after 1968 as we know. It is now possible to "go shopping" in foreign countries from the comfort of our own living rooms, book hotels/cars in other countries etc. The only way to have retained control of it would have been to isolate all US domains from the rest of the world - what would be the point of that? In any case, there's nothing to stop other countries from building servers and adding them to a network which serves multiple countries. I understand that TCP/IP was developed in the US, but had it not existed, I'm sure someone, somewhere else would have come up with something similar.
The telephone was invented by a Scotsman, but I don't see people in Scotland protesting that other countries now have their own phone systems.
:confused:
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technically, the telephone was invented in America by an American, not that it matters too much :D
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rshubert I edited my post cause : "last sentence didn't belong to this post ... in fact it even didn't belong to this BBS'"
(to make it clearer)
Free speech don't exist in France, it's close to free speech but not to the extend you can have.
For example if I start a pro-nazi site I'll take the risk to face charges.
In the USA, the phone companies install and pay for the physical layers of the internet.
Exactly like France.
When you (in France) register a domain, the transport of data to and from the root servers costs money. ICANN pays the phone companies for that transport.
it's more complex than that but it's an acceptable comparison.
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Originally posted by NUKE
technically, the telephone was invented in America by an American, not that it matters too much :D
We invented copper wire !
off to bed now cya gents :)
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Originally posted by straffo
We invented copper wire !
off to bed now cya gents :)
LOL... check mate :rofl
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Originally posted by bustr
Some of you may not know that you can get fined or thrown in jail in the EU now for quoting or publicly speaking parts of the Bible.
I wish.
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Originally posted by straffo
We invented copper wire !
off to bed now cya gents :)
Yea well we invented plastic without which your copper wire would be useless, cept maybe in the desert :D
or you would still be importing Shellac from asia
It aint over till its over Soda ;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yea well we invented plastic without which your copper wire would be useless, cept maybe in the desert :D
or you would still be importing Shellac from asia
It aint over till its over Soda ;)
I know...
sock it to emmm.
:)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yea well we invented plastic without which your copper wire would be useless, cept maybe in the desert :D
or you would still be importing Shellac from asia
It aint over till its over Soda ;)
And there is no end ! :D
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here's the deal, world. it's our damn internet. we have control.
if we go down, no porn for you.
no porn for us. no porn for anybody.
don't mess with us.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
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if we go down, no porn for you.
no porn for us. no porn for anybody.
don't mess with us.
::Screaming:: NOOOOO NOOOOOOOO!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
LOL
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straffo! 5.55am? Tu t'est levé ŕ la bonne heure!
Been thinking about this internet "ownership" thing a bit more. Anyone who thinks that any particular country "owns" it or "controls" it doesn't have a clue about the very nature of it. If there was a power failure in the whole of the US, I bet I could still access websites in Europe, Australia etc. Granted, it might be slower because of longer routing (to OZ) and the increased amount of traffic competing for the same routing, but I'm sure it could be done. The Internet was designed to be decentralised.
And who needs pron when Amsterdam is a 40 minute flight away.
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Anyone who doesn't live 40' from Amsterdam.
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Originally posted by beet1e
straffo! 5.55am? Tu t'est levé ŕ la bonne heure!
Yep , I'm working in Paris now so I've about 2*1h45 commute time :(
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Originally posted by NUKE
technically, the telephone was invented in America by an American, not that it matters too much :D
The conception of the Telephone took place during that summer visit to my father's residence in Brantford in 1874, and the apparatus was just as it was subsequently made, a one-membrane telephone on either end ... The experiment of August 10, 1876, made from Brantford to Paris, was the first transmission, the first clear, intelligible transmission of speech over the real line, that had ever been made."
- A. G. Bell at Boston, Massachusetts, March 13, 1916
bell was a brit, and became a naturalized american in 1882. he and his wife are buried in nova scotia.
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Originally posted by Torque
The conception of the Telephone took place during that summer visit to my father's residence in Brantford in 1874, and the apparatus was just as it was subsequently made, a one-membrane telephone on either end ... The experiment of August 10, 1876, made from Brantford to Paris, was the first transmission, the first clear, intelligible transmission of speech over the real line, that had ever been made."
- A. G. Bell at Boston, Massachusetts, March 13, 1916
bell was a brit, and became a naturalized american in 1882. he and his wife are buried in nova scotia.
Good find, and who really knows if it's even true. Technically it was invented in America by an American, where it was patented.
It's like people who claimed to have flown before the Wrights. No proof verses proof.
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Wright bro's were more involved in research than A.G.Bell who simply patented an invention he didn't research.
Or are you also claiming that Macrosoft invented double clicking?
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Antonio Meucci .