Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on October 24, 2005, 05:31:40 PM
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Whoo hoo!! My birthday present arrived today... my very own M39! Has a mirror-bright bore, VKT 1941 barrel, built on an 1898 Tula receiver. Re-arsenaled in 1971 with a new late-war pistol grip stock then cosmo'd and put-up till today. Has about 75% bluing.. really a spectacular feeling and looking weapon. Heavy.. tips the scales at 10lbs unloaded. Still has the re-arsenal tag on it.
(http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/038464000/38464179/pix244949000.jpg)
I'm told that the M39 is the finest example of the Nagant design ever to see service, better sights, better barrel, better stock and better fit and finish then the Russian 91/30's. Reputed to be very accurate.. will certainly be a better shooter than I am.
Got it with a correct used but in good condition leather sling, 20 stripper clips, the cleaning kit with rod extnsion, 500 rounds of 7.62 x 54 Wolf FMJ AND 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 for the SKS at... get this... $300.00!!! Picked it up locally.. no shipping.
I'm just sittin here looking at it.. and the history this thing musta seen..
Russian Civil War 1918-20
Finnish Civil War 1918
Finish-Soviet Border Dispute 1919-20
The Winter War 1939-40
World War II 1941-45
I am just sooooo stoked.. goin down to de-cosmo the bolt now... expect to work it out on the range Wednesday.
Stoked, I tell yah! STOKED!
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Beautiful weapon Hangtime! The history part really amazes me about these rifles also. Who knows where they've been. One day I will add a M39 to my collection. Enjoy your new honey!
This weekend I purchased a nice 1943 M38 Mosin Nagant from Big 5 Sporting Goods for $79. Great sale prices there. Crappy part is now I have to wait 10 days to get it. Damn CA laws.
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Toothpicks. Toothpicks (not Qtips) are the best at removing cosmoline from hard to reach places.
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:O :cry
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Broke the bolt down.. take down is pretty much just like that old argentine mauser i had 25 years ago. No suprises so far. everything looks great! The Bolt components are soaking in a bucket of carb cleaner now. After a couple hours of that, a soft wire brush, a toothbrush, toothpicks and qtips to work the #9 in, then a dry down/blow out with compressed air then a repeat with the lube, followed by another careful wipedown.
Reciever parts are done already.. sear looks mirror smooth; trigger break s already very nice. No stoneing needed anywhere yet, even the firing pin is perfectly polished. The bore looks like plate glass... no corrosion anywhere internally, looks good behind the wood. Small corrosin spot outside the barrel about a 1/2" shy of the crown on the bottom just above the cleaning rod guide. Barrel bands are corrosion free. The receiver is perfect, no pitting anywhere. Hard to belive it's 107 years old.. and the barrel is 64 years old. Incredible.
How much does it cost to re-blue the weapon I wonder... not that I'm seriously considering it.. the gun has a heluva character with the blue evenly worn away on all the sharp area's and off the mag sides... looks freakin kewl.... :aok
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To blue a weapon yourself, I believe you need to put the stuff in the oven.
So unless you have a friggin huge oven, I don't think you can do it yourself.
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I'm told that the M39 is the finest example of the Nagant design ever to see service, better sights, better barrel, better stock and better fit and finish then the Russian 91/30's. Reputed to be very accurate.. will certainly be a better shooter than I am.
Looks really good. 75 percent blue is really good to begin with. My understanding is that there was a pretty notable accuracy requirement for acceptance. Mine has a shim by the front action screw where they corrected the bedding to fine tune it. Stock looks great. Mine is a bit more worn (not rough by any means) but I like them a bit better that way. I'll see about posting a pic tomorrow or so.
If you are interested in getting it scoped there is a no-gunsmithing scout mount that replaces the rear sight without drilling and tapping. No personal experience but a good rep. http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85.showMessage?topicID=133.topic Ther is another one or two I believe as well.
Charon
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Here is a very good site that should have all the info you seek on blueing your weapon.
Links to different types of maintenance and blueing techniques
Gun Maintenance links (http://www.surplusrifle.com/maintenance.asp)
This one really looks interesting and will be my next method.
Interesting way to blue (http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/bluewonderblue/index.asp)
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For home blue that blue wonder looks good (good coverage, no/low odor afterward compared to about all the rest). I might get some of the black for a project Enfield that is already beyond collectability in any real form and has already lost most of its original history. An M-39 might be one where you would want to keep permanent changes to a minimum. They are somewhat limited in numbers (by comparison to many) with a good collecting community behind them and almost certainly some real history behind them.
Charon
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Intresting read.. looks like that bluing process would work real well.. wonder how it holds up over time. Thanks for the Links Kev and Charon!
I'm absolutely in love with the way this thing looks.. worn blue and all.
Cann a Finn be sexy?
;)
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(http://www.galenfrysinger.ws/movies/christmas_story_c.jpg)
You'll shoot your eye out
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...at better than 500 yards. ;)
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Good looking rifle, though I can't say I am even passingly familiar with non-US rifles other than the Mauser 98 or Lee Enfield.
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Normally Charon I would agree, keep that thing original. However it all depends on what Hang wants to do with it. If its a range gun and wants it to look new go for it. After all the more originals that get changed makes my collection increase in value.
On your Enfield have you considered reparkerizing it? May want to look at this product.
http://www.kgcoatings.com/gunkote.html (http://www.kgcoatings.com/gunkote.html)
Here is a link with a picture of a finished gun in GunKote
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298674 (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298674)
Its alot more like original than Blue on an Enfield and more durable.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
...at better than 500 yards. ;)
I usually shot 9/10 at the 500 yard line with the M-16 :cool:
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knockin down a silouette target at 500 yards with a m16 (the penetrating power of a spitwad) is a piece of cake.
posting a 4" shotgroup on the backside of a 4x4 at 500 yards with a 106 year old battle rifle is another game alltogether.
:D
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Finnish Defence Force's armoury should still sell spareparts for M39
Fax. 358 3 181 45 859 (358 = country code).
Price for complete rifle in here is ~200€ (from army armoury), hunters are using them with original and custom made stocks; it's accurate and reliable rifle.
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Nice hang... you should be able to afford to shoot the thing too with the russian ammo being so cheap.
I soak in mineral spirits (paint thinner) then use brake cleaner and carb and choke cleaner to get the nasty stuff... toothbrushes pipe cleaners etc..
Las thing... I squirt it all down heavily with clp and wipe it down..
you will still see cosmo oozing out here and there after a day at the range tho is seems like... no big deal.
I am gonna load some 165 hornady's for the garand tonite and you inspired me to go to the range and check em out.... I'll take thurs I guess.
I still have to sight in my $70 98k sporter too.. it shoots to the left but nice tight groups even with cheap 8mm stuff.
lazs
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Thanks Laz! Finished it up last night late.. the action cycles smooth as butter. Friend of mine stopped by this morning to eyeball it.. demanded that I sell it to him since I couldn't possibly do it justice on a range.
He's probably right.. but I ain't selling it.
;)
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Originally posted by Staga
Finnish Defence Force's armoury should still sell spareparts for M39
Fax. 358 3 181 45 859 (358 = country code).
Price for complete rifle in here is ~200€ (from army armoury), hunters are using them with original and custom made stocks; it's accurate and reliable rifle.
Thanks Staga! They sell 'em for about the same price here too, seems to be a pretty good parts supply here also.
With you Finns selling these things off, one would assume that the Civil Guarda is not going to be reformed? ;)
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Here is a very good site that should have all the info you seek on blueing your weapon.
Links to different types of maintenance and blueing techniques
Gun Maintenance links (http://www.surplusrifle.com/maintenance.asp)
This one really looks interesting and will be my next method.
Interesting way to blue (http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/bluewonderblue/index.asp)
I have used that method for a few years, since reading about it in one of the gun mags. You don't need to use Blue Wonder, btw, although it is a good blue solution.
The trick is to get the part fairly hot--the blue should sizzle going on. Then wipe off the residue with very, very, very very VERY fine steel wool soaked in water, then flood the part with water to neutralize the solution, then dry and oil. I dry with a heat gun, to make sure I drive out all the moisture. RIG or Remington Wonder Lube work to protect the metal after bluing--DO NOT USE WD-40, since it attacks the blueing.
Have fun with it!
shubie
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On your Enfield have you considered reparkerizing it? May want to look at this product.
I've considered that. The stock was belt sanded in Ishapore India during a rearsenaling to the point of being misshapen. Really bad heel and toe repairs and so much cosmoline (packed in the stock 1/4" deep in many areas) that the area around the king screw (main screw holding the receiver to the forestock) had started to soften to a wet cardboard consistency. The nasty Indian slop black paint "refinishing" job obscured most of the original metal markings and made the mechanical components sticky and rough to operate.
After stripping the Indian paint with Acetone it is smooth and now slick as butter. What fine engineering. You can cycle the action with the tips of two fingers. More original finish than I though except the barrel tip and the magazine and bands. As it stands now, I will likely just refinish the magazine and bands, since the wood furniture hides most of the barrel and the receiver actually looks pretty good in the white. I've replaced some bands and components with new, unissued that are parked. I may use the blue wonder (black) or GunKote or Durakote on those that are not replaced and the magazine, since the black spray paint stands out a bit and already doesn't wear well.
The big challenge now is proper inletting and bedding with the new stock.
I did have "purists" on the various boards before I started this (and before I saw that it was actually unsafe to shoot) suggest I keep the Indian paint and original misshapen, belt sanded stock from the rearsenaling as "part of it's history." I respect a rifle's history, but when all the markings are sanded off the stock and you can't see the service and proofing stampings on the metal -- you just have that "paint em and store em in a crate for 30 years" history left to show. I'm not that much of a purist :) There is the argument that you just turned a $150 gun (incl. new stock) into a $50 gun. Yeah, that same purist wouldn't have paid the $100 I paid for the very marginal (except the bore) basic gun in the first place, but I bet somebody else would pay at least $150 for a nice looking shooter Enfiled at some point. And I'll get a better return than any of the $300 graphic cards I've bought that are worth $20 today :)
Charon
[edit: I still have the forestock around for measuring with the inletting of the new one. Even wiped down well and at room temprature, the inside oozes cosmoline from the wood like oil leaking from the Arizona.]
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Jeez hang, can't ya afford brand new gear?
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nope. can't even afford this gear. butcha know what? i don't give a damn. it's an awsome old piece of field artillery, i just love the look and feel of it and i'm taking it to the range tomorrow morning early just so i can hear the echo of the boom come rolling back off the hills.
:D
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Grats on a great deal there Hang. My m39 is my favorite old rifle by far. If you ever get into hand loading you'll have a VERY accurate rifle.
Nothing quite like showing up at the range with a "cheap old commie rifle" and shooting tighter groups than the guys with thier $800 scoped deer rifles. :)
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you ain't kiddin!
Just got back from the first time out... lordy, itsa nice freakin rifle. Went right to the 100 yard range and put the first 5 on the paper high with a 4" group. Messed about with the sandbags and the next 5 were tighter and lower, re-thought the sight picture and the next 5 were all where we like 'em. Still not shootin less than 4" average, but I put 70 rounds down range and they stayed pretty consistent. Last two groups of 5 were decidedly the worst, so I pulled the boards and came home 30 shy of my goal of 100.
I'm still grinnin ear to ear.. need to work on a mag feed issue.. occasional hang-ups with the feed reamp guide. (i'll fix that tonight) Not thrilled with the short straight bolt handle.. always shot turned down bolts, but I was starting to get used to it. Not saying I like it.. just gettin used to it. ;) I am very impressed and happy overall.. the gun shoulders beautifuly, the 'c' stock wrist matches my hand perfectly.. finn's musta been big folks. The recoil is moderate since it's such a heavy piece, but you know yer firing a big gun. It's well within the comfort zone thump-wize.. my shoulder feels fine and that 106 year old artillery piece can obviously shoot better than I can.
Nice old gun. Might have to give it a name. ;)
Might get back out there Sunday....
ooohrah.
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Originally posted by TPIguy
Nothing quite like showing up at the range with a "cheap old commie rifle" and shooting tighter groups than the guys with thier $800 scoped deer rifles. :)
Worlds most famous sniper was using a M28, M39's predecessor and he was credited with over 500 "commie" kills; all with iron sights.
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Bingo!
One gent glanced at it and called it a 'russian' rifle. I handed it to him and said "look again..." I had an excellent time educating him. Still makes me smile.. the iorny of the Czar's rifles being captured by Finns, markedly improved and then used to stop communist agression through 5 wars over the course of better than 100 years... he was impressed and amazed.
Now THAT'S a 'hands on history' lesson! :aok
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Originally posted by Staga
Worlds most famous sniper was using a M28, M39's predecessor and he was credited with over 500 "commie" kills; all with iron sights.
He did also use M39
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Worlds most famous sniper was using a M28, M39's predecessor and he was credited with over 500 "commie" kills; all with iron sights.
He also got shot in the ****ing face.
And lived.