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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K3 on October 24, 2005, 05:44:54 PM

Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: 1K3 on October 24, 2005, 05:44:54 PM
NOW!

(Ali G's voice: theeese's tha bestest spitfiar, it weeeel rule tha skies damnit!)

(runs and hides:D)
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on October 24, 2005, 05:59:38 PM
It's just what the arena needs...

Another Spit in "LA's High"  :cry
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: 1K3 on October 24, 2005, 06:06:23 PM
spit 16

everyone would pee on their pants the 1st time they see it... in flight!:furious
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Morpheus on October 24, 2005, 06:28:34 PM
Yeah perk everything. The hell with flying for fun.:aok

Should perk anything over 30 cal too.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on October 24, 2005, 06:28:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
spit 16

everyone would pee on their pants the 1st time they see it... in flight!:furious


What is the advantage of the Spit 16?   After all, the Spit 14 hardly dominates an arena full of LA7's now.  Is it faster on the deck than the 14 or climbs really good or turns like a Zeke?

I have heard so much stuff about the new uber rides coming like the KI84 or the P47N and how they were going to dominate the arena, they need to be perked (before they were even available). etc.  And now that they are here, you don't see too many of them, even though they are not perked.

So, I am serious here, what is going to be the big advantage of a Spit 16 in the MA as it exists today?
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Morpheus on October 24, 2005, 06:36:52 PM
It wont take long for some of the spit experts to come in here and explain the differences. I have no idea, and am curious. British fighters have never been my strong point. From what I remember furball saying, the clipped wing spit (if thats the one we're getting) was quite a monster. I seriously doubt we will see any plane replace the La7 though.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 24, 2005, 06:46:57 PM
Ok, fine.

336mph at sea level (Spit XIV does 358)

405mph at 20,000ft, IIRC (Spit XIV does 448mph at 27,000ft)

Initial climb somewhere between 4000 and 4500 feet per minute (about the same for the Spit XIV)

Higher roll rate due to the clipped wings.  Slightly worse at turning due to the clipped wings.

Basically it is a better rolling and accelerating, slightly faster on the deck Spitfire Mk IX.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kev367th on October 24, 2005, 06:55:57 PM
Yup - turn is approx 42ft wider (from other thread), rolls a lot better, fitted with low alt Merlin 66, climbs better, compared to the F IX.
F IX still better over 20k.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: NUKE on October 24, 2005, 06:56:24 PM
From what I understand, it's basically a spit IX with a Packard built Merlin with more horsepower and possibly a buble canopy.

It seems like it will be a kick-arse spit IX with a great view.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Slash27 on October 24, 2005, 07:00:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+

I have heard so much stuff about the new uber rides coming like the KI84 or the P47N and how they were going to dominate the arena, they need to be perked (before they were even available). etc.  And now that they are here, you don't see too many of them, even though they are not perked.

 



Ki-84 is one one the best dogfighters in this game. I dont understand why more dont fly it.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 24, 2005, 07:01:22 PM
No bubble canopy on the one we're getting, so same old Spitfire cockpit as from 1939's Spitfire Mk I.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: lasersailor184 on October 24, 2005, 07:42:33 PM
I was under the impression that the engine on the Spit 9 and the Spit 16 were the same.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on October 24, 2005, 07:49:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I was under the impression that the engine on the Spit 9 and the Spit 16 were the same.


LFIX had the Rolls Merlin 66.  LFXVI had the American made Packard Merlin 266

Same bird, different engine maker
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: lasersailor184 on October 24, 2005, 07:49:43 PM
Yet again, I believe it was the same engine, different engine maker.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 24, 2005, 07:51:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I was under the impression that the engine on the Spit 9 and the Spit 16 were the same.

The Spitfire Mk IX was powered by the Merlin 61 and Merlin 63 as the Spitfire F.Mk IX, the Merlin 66 as the Spitfire LF.MK IX and the Merlin 70 as the Spitfire HF.Mk IX.  The Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe's Merlin 266 is the same as the Spitfire LF.Mk IX's Merlin 66.  The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is a Spitfire F.Mk IX powered by a Merlin 61.  It is the earliest Spitfire MkIX and the engine is tuned for higher altitude combat.  The Merlin 66/266 are tuned for lower altitude combat so it gets better low altitude performance at the cost of high altitude performance.  The Merlin 66/266 also run at +18lbs boost compared to the Merlin 61's +15lbs boost.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 24, 2005, 07:54:09 PM
There are many 'Spit IXs' with different engines.

The Spit XVI as modeled in AH and as the pictures reflect are of a Spitfire LF.XVI with a clipped 'E-wing'.

As such its engine would be a Packard-Merlin 266 (Ami built Merlin 66).

The Spitfire MK IX in AH is a Spitfire F.XI universal wing (2 x 2cm Hisso's, 4 x .303s) with a Merlin 61.

Max boost for the F.IX Merlin 61 is 15 lbs

Max boost for the LF.IX / LF.XVI Merlin 66/266 is 18 lbs (assuming the modeled the LF.XVI @ 18lbs; with 150 octane fuel it could be run at 25lbs).

However, the LF is optimized for Medium altitude. Some say low altitude but that's not actually true. Between 12 and 20k the LF will easily outperform the F.IX. None of the Spitfires in AH have great deck speed, including the XIV. The F.IX will still be faster the higher you go. With clipped wings the LF.IX/XVI with roll better then the F.IX. Climb and acceleration will also be better (marginally depending on the altitude).

EDIT:

oops was typing when karnak posted...
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Hoarach on October 24, 2005, 08:26:01 PM
We dont need any more late birds.  Bad enough thats all people use but to add another late war plane so people could overuse, BORING.  Hardly see the early war planes excluding the spit 5.  Id rather see the early war plane list completed first before we get the noobs some more uber planes.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 24, 2005, 08:33:59 PM
It's not a late war bird. The Spitfire LF.IX first entered squadron service in 3.43 with 611 Squadron. While the Packard-Merlin 266 LF.XVI better reflects a '44 (post d-day) version in terms of performance its not any better then the LF.IX that entered service in 3.43.

The Spitfire F.IX entered service in mid '42. The only post '43 Spitfire AH has is the XIV, and it's perked.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on October 24, 2005, 08:40:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Ok, fine.

336mph at sea level (Spit XIV does 358)

405mph at 20,000ft, IIRC (Spit XIV does 448mph at 27,000ft)

Initial climb somewhere between 4000 and 4500 feet per minute (about the same for the Spit XIV)

Higher roll rate due to the clipped wings.  Slightly worse at turning due to the clipped wings.

Basically it is a better rolling and accelerating, slightly faster on the deck Spitfire Mk IX.


If I interpet this post and some of the other replies correctly, it would be kind of like this:

A darn nice little plane, but the LA's will still be the main plane of the main arena.

At 336 mph on the deck, it will hardly dominate the place.  Nice climb rate, and Hizooka's, I bet it is popular if it handles a dive well.  Any idea of compression speeds and how it does handle in a dive?
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 24, 2005, 08:45:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoarach
We dont need any more late birds.  Bad enough thats all people use but to add another late war plane so people could overuse, BORING.  Hardly see the early war planes excluding the spit 5.  Id rather see the early war plane list completed first before we get the noobs some more uber planes.

It was needed to fill out the Spitfire's wartime progression.  They are redoing Spits now, so now is the time to fill it out, regardless of whether the MA needs it.

 
Quote
Any idea of compression speeds and how it does handle in a dive?

It is a Spitfire that rolls better.  It'll do fine in a dive.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on October 25, 2005, 11:17:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
It was needed to fill out the Spitfire's wartime progression.  They are redoing Spits now, so now is the time to fill it out, regardless of whether the MA needs it.

 
It is a Spitfire that rolls better.  It'll do fine in a dive.


It sounds like it may outturn / out climb a 109G6, and it will definately out run/out climb the G6.

I imagine it will have a very low ENY.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 25, 2005, 11:20:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
It sounds like it may outturn / out climb a 109G6, and it will definately out run/out climb the G6.

I imagine it will have a very low ENY.

ENY of 5 I would imagine as it will be the top dog free Spitfire.  Remember the Spitfire Mk V is being changed from a Spitfire Mk Vc at +16lbs boost with 120 rounds per cannon to a Spitfire Mk Vb at +12lbs boost with 60 rounds per cannon.  The Mk V is going to see a dramatic drop is use I think as will the Mk IX.  The Seafire may pick up some of that slack, but most will probably go to the Mk XVI.

Compare it to the Bf109G-14, not the Bf109G-6.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Nomak on October 25, 2005, 11:34:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
The Mk V is going to see a dramatic drop is use I think as will the Mk IX.  The Seafire may pick up some of that slack, but most will probably go to the Mk XVI.

Compare it to the Bf109G-14, not the Bf109G-6.


I would guess the N1k will see more migration from the spit V faithfull.

Is the seafire going to remain @ 120rpg and 16lbs?  If it does than everyone will simply move over the the seafire IMO.

Dave
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Krusty on October 25, 2005, 11:42:22 AM
Well if what I remember comes to pass, the Seafire will be changed, it won't be a Seafire IIc (a heavy spitV with carrier landing stuff) but it will instead be the more common Seafire III (a heavy spit9 with carrier landing stuff) -- it will probably perform better and still have 120RPG for hispanos.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 25, 2005, 11:44:42 AM
The Seafire will be even better if they model a Seafire MK III as some have been suggesting they would.

The current Seafire is a MK IIc
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 25, 2005, 11:45:45 AM
Seafire L.Mk III isn't a Spit IX.  It still has the earlier single stage Merlin unlike the Mk IX which has the two stage Merlin 60 series.  The Seafire L.Mk III was the first Seafire to have folding wings.  It did have 120 rounds per cannon though.  It marks the divergence of the Spitfire and Seafire lines.  From the L.Mk III on they are no longer directly comparable.

I really don't know what to expect from the Seafire L.Mk III in terms of performance.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 25, 2005, 11:48:58 AM
I haven't read anything about them modeling an L.MK III specifically. I don't think its for sure what version of the Mk III they will model, or even if they re-do the Seafire at all.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 25, 2005, 11:49:55 AM
As I understand it there is only one version of the Seafire Mk III. So far as I know they were all Seafire L.Mk IIIs.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 25, 2005, 11:52:17 AM
No there was an F.MK III as well

Quote
Supermarine Seafire III: Developed from Supermarine Seafire II with double-folding wings (mainplanes up, tips down) for improved stowage aboard carriers. Prototype (MA970) converted from first production F Mk IIC, first flown November 1942. Basic production Supermarine Seafire F Mk III (Supermarine Type 358) normally powered by Merlin 55 (but Merlin 45, 46 and 50 also used), and four-bladed propeller; featured improved u/c for deck operations and, after first small batch, deletion of outer cannon bays in 'C'-type wing. Provision for RATOG and bombs, as Supermarine Seafire II.

 Major variant was Supermarine Seafire LF Mk III (often also called L Mk III) fitted for low-altitude operations with Merlin 55M. Small number of LF Mk Ills fitted with vertical and oblique cameras, as in FR Mk IIC, and designated Supermarine Seafire FR Mk III; first conversion, by Heston Aircraft, completed June 1943. Total Supermarine Seafire III production, 1,263, by Westland (913) and Cunliffe Owen (350), included about 30 initially with fixed wings, known as L Mk IIC Hybrid until converted. First production Supermarine Seafire III completed May 1943; service use began November 1943, with No 894 Sqn.
Data for LF Mk III: Max speed, 348 mph (560 kmlh) at 6,000 ft (1,830 m). Initial climb, 4,160 ftlmin (21.13 m/sec). Time to 5,000ft (1,525 m), 1.9 min. Service ceiling, 24,000ft (7,315 m). Range (with drop tanks), 513 mis (825 km). Empty weight, 6,204 Ib (2,814 kg). Gross weight, 7,640 Ib (3,565 kg). Span, 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m). Length, 30 ft 2'/2 in (9.21 m). Wing area, 242 sq ft (22.48m2).
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: gatt on October 25, 2005, 12:01:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
It sounds like it may outturn / out climb a 109G6, and it will definately out run/out climb the G6.

I imagine it will have a very low ENY.


Ah sure, it will eat alive our early G-6. It should be compared with a 1,800hp MW late G-6 or later model.

I hate to meet everything that seems a Spitfire, La, Nik or Ki in the MA, but I must admit that there was a huge hole between the Spitfire Mk.IX and the Mk.XIV. We needed a later Spit.

Now HTC, wheres my Fiat G.55?
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Krusty on October 25, 2005, 12:16:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
Now HTC, wheres my Fiat G.55?


For bribes... (http://www.internetwines.com/pa95154.html)
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: dedalos on October 25, 2005, 12:28:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Ki-84 is one one the best dogfighters in this game. I dont understand why more dont fly it.


Cause it curies the PW and flap curse.  I love it, but if you hear a ping, it comes with blod on the glass or a missing flap (that is actually stuck down, even though it is gone).  Kind of like a P40.  You get pinged, you lose a flap.

HIJACKING:  What do you think?  5 more years and the flap problem will be fixed?  Got to finish with the 10 foot grass first.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slimm50 on October 25, 2005, 12:59:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Ki-84 is one one the best dogfighters in this game. I dont understand why more dont fly it.

I keep trying, but I don't like the way the flaps won't engage till yer reel slow. Also, the speed in the Frank creeps up on ya and before you know your doing near 400 and wondering why your blacking out...

...but I keep trying.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Squire on October 25, 2005, 05:35:53 PM
Seafire L.III was the more common type, but yes there were both.

Its really a low alt dogfighter in terms of its engine which is a Merlin 55M.  

Ammo is still 120 rpg for its 20mm, as its based on the Spit VC airframe and universal wing. Can carry a DT or a bomb as well.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 25, 2005, 06:18:28 PM
Quote
Seafire L.III was the more common type, but yes there were both.


Yup, most (by far majority) were L.III and as such one would expect an L.III if they really re-do the Seafire. But that said the only IX AH has had was the least produced F.IX Merlin 61.

I have even seen pictures of clipped-wing L.IIIs...

Real close to that LF.Vc CW we talked about in the other thread...:p
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 25, 2005, 06:46:52 PM
I don't think they ever clipped the wings of Seafires.  It would make it a little harder to get off the deck.

The Seafire Mk III's wings fold at two points, the second of which is pretty much where clipped wing Spits are clipped.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: weaselsan on October 25, 2005, 06:50:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Ki-84 is one one the best dogfighters in this game. I dont understand why more dont fly it.


Cause it ain't got a purty new cockpit and skin. I will be back when they get the new purty cockpit in the Ki....my deflection shots are so good...I once shot myself in the butt.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Krusty on October 25, 2005, 06:56:06 PM
Uh.. weasel? It *does* have a new cockpit. It was one of the first to GET the new cockpit. Unless I misunderstood what you meant?
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Karnak on October 25, 2005, 06:58:54 PM
Yup, the Ki-84, B-24 and T-34 were the first units done to the AH2 standard, which is why they don't look quite as nice as the newly redone units.  NATEDOG and SUPERFLY were still figuring out how much room they had to play I think.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Krusty on October 25, 2005, 07:01:53 PM
Well, Karnak says they don't look as nice, I say it looks great! :D

The cockpit is very roomy, with plenty of room for pilot-wounding bullets to pass through. :eek:
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: weaselsan on October 25, 2005, 07:03:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Yup, the Ki-84, B-24 and T-34 were the first units done to the AH2 standard, which is why they don't look quite as nice as the newly redone units.  NATEDOG and SUPERFLY were still figuring out how much room they had to play I think.


They need to redo the ki 84  to the new standards. The spit looks nice.
Also what ever happened to those beautiful clouds from a few years back.
Lots of fun hiding in them and sucker punching someone.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Krusty on October 25, 2005, 07:06:11 PM
Weasel: Look at a6m. Look at P40. Then look at Ki84. It is the new standard :)

What, specifically, don't you like?
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 25, 2005, 07:59:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I don't think they ever clipped the wings of Seafires.  It would make it a little harder to get off the deck.

The Seafire Mk III's wings fold at two points, the second of which is pretty much where clipped wing Spits are clipped.


(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/334_1130288275_seafire3.jpg)

Labeled Seafire III
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Guppy35 on October 26, 2005, 01:00:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Well if what I remember comes to pass, the Seafire will be changed, it won't be a Seafire IIc (a heavy spitV with carrier landing stuff) but it will instead be the more common Seafire III (a heavy spit9 with carrier landing stuff) -- it will probably perform better and still have 120RPG for hispanos.


4 bladed prop and multiple exhaust stacks do not always a two stage Merlin Spitfire make :)

Much closer to an LFVc as it's still a single stage Merlin in the Seafire III
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kev367th on October 26, 2005, 01:08:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno
Yup, most (by far majority) were L.III and as such one would expect an L.III if they really re-do the Seafire. But that said the only IX AH has had was the least produced F.IX Merlin 61.

I have even seen pictures of clipped-wing L.IIIs...

Real close to that LF.Vc CW we talked about in the other thread...:p


LIII should be a bit of gem -

18lbs boost
DT and ord options
240 rounds cannon?

Be like our soon to replaced Mk V, but with a steroid boost.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bruno on October 26, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
Exactly Kev, those who currently fly the Spit V in AH with its 16lbs boost will be real comfortable in an L.III. As Guppy says its closer the the LF.Vc then the current Spit V, Spitfire F.IX, or Seafire IIc.
Title: P3RK $PiT 16!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: weaselsan on October 26, 2005, 04:00:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Weasel: Look at a6m. Look at P40. Then look at Ki84. It is the new standard :)

What, specifically, don't you like?


The KI is better than the old pasted on 2D look but not as good as the
new cockpits such as the P47 P51 or new spit. It greatly increases the realism aspect of the game with the new cockpits. These along with the new tour of duty will have me back in the game.  Was in air warrior for several years then, switched to aces high because of major improvements. Now it is getting better and better. It just takes a little more serious hardware. No problem, I got the latest alienware.