Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on October 26, 2005, 02:00:48 AM
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Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah? Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html
We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah? Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."
From Chairboy's link
In other cases, agents obtained e-mails after a warrant expired, seized bank records without proper authority and conducted an improper "unconsented physical search," according to the documents.
Seems to me this story is about illegal searches and surveillance, things that are illegal and prohibited within the PA and other federal law.
Robbing a bank is not abuse of anti-robbery legislation, it is breaking the law. The abuses spoken of in the article are violations of the law.
I would think an abuse of the act would be about using the legal avenues the PA opens up for nefarious purposes, not what is noted here.
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Ah yes, but here's where you made your mistake Chairboy, they are the FBI, they can do WHATEVER THEY PLEASE. Give me a break, when you give someone the right to conduct surveillance on whoever they want for whatever reason they find fit, they can and will abuse it. I've known this since The Patriot Act came to my attention (come on i'm 16:huh ).
On a side note Jello Biafra, who many might not even give a flying monkey about what he says, has said in his Oprah interview that he could relate to NWA's song about police (yes "that" one) because his house was broken into and ransacked by 2 LAPD and 7 San Francisco police in the middle of the night for no reason. They went through his address book comparing names. They had him sit on a chair in a robe, "it was a subtle form of rape, in a way". He also relates them to KGB agents. 2 monthes later files are charged against his record label, Alternative Tentacles, and a year and a half later it came to trial. Now of course most of that centers around Tipper Gore and the PMRC, but I digress.
He also mentions artist Jock Sturgis who's house was also split apart by the FBI, they had planned to take everything he had but left his clothes and animals. Not totally sure when this speech was, but he hadn't had charges brought against him (Jock Sturgis) up to that point and I think it had been several years.
Love your government:p
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Originally posted by nirvana
...he could relate to NWA's song about police (yes "that" one)
Love your government:p
I like the Bone thugs cover of that one alot.:aok
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"Yawn"
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah? Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html
We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....
Proof? LOL! Hey, I bet the FBI has never done this in its 96 year history, has it!? ;)
Incidently, from your article:
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Proof? LOL! Hey, I bet the FBI has never done this in its 96 year history, has it!? ;)
Incidently, from your article:
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed
how dare you introduce logic into the thread rip :O
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah? Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html
We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....
Why do you even post this stuff. You've been around this board long enough to know that you could have stacks and stacks of material on violations of our rights by the Patriot Act and since most of these guys aren't interested in even considering new info that might change their beliefs, they'll never really hear what you're saying.
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Yeah, you're right, but it still frustrates me so much. This board is full of people who profess how much they love their freedom and liberties, yet when people start threatening those exact rights, they just roll over and take it.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Yeah, you're right, but it still frustrates me so much. This board is full of people who profess how much they love their freedom and liberties, yet when people start threatening those exact rights, they just roll over and take it.
Sorry but your bait just wasn't all that stinky. Having read the article it seems to me at least that it didn't take outside intervention to have aleged abuses of the system and violations investigated. Thus the system is working.
What I don't like is how people that post this stuff scream the loudest about sept 11th and the intell failures. PARTS of the patriot act correct those failures and is long overdue. There are PARTS of the patriot act that are very much worth keeping while others I don't agree with.
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed
Then there's this little gem:
Most such cases involve powers granted under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which governs the use of secret warrants, wiretaps and other methods as part of investigations of agents of foreign powers or terrorist groups. The threshold for such surveillance is lower than for traditional criminal warrants. More than 1,700 new cases were opened by the court last year, according to an administration report to Congress.
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See Rule #4, #5
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chair...after you defended a FAR LEFT Child molestetrs defending Anti-religion Socialist group.. ACLU
Its not worth talking about other subjects with someone in my opinion who is so clouded in their judgement.
I hav ejust recenlty read the BIO of the current presiden tof the ACLU..wow hopefully we will empower the WAR powers act ...Round them up..and put them in detention
and btw..Patriot Act is needed ..Im sure it Can be refined ..but defntly needed..Tahnks to groups like ACLU..we are afraid to "lablel " terrorsits..ya cant say look for a towel head huh?
The Odl grandma looks just as dangerous
Its this PC crap that is ruining our country
My girlfriend is a teacher....They are no longer alooowed to say ..Halloween...How ghey is that...I spit on the ACLU..
IF you want to protect your First Admen...Thats what the 2nd Amend does..we are here to protect the First .................
NRA
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Let the monkey ninja's handle it. They will save us!!!
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Greencloud, I may disagree with the ravings of a lunatic who tilts at windmills, mistakes friend for foe, and frantically shouts mindlessly (with bits of spittle spattering from its mouth as it froths) at those who work to defend it....
....but I will fight to the death to protect your right to do so. :D
BTW, those of us who defend our 2nd ammendment rights will be those best suited in the long term to protect our families from those abusing the Patriot Act and its progressively anti-liberty children (the legislation that will follow once the sheep accept the concept of trading further liberty for temporary security). You may think you're against me now, but a generation from now, we may be back to back against a common foe.
Don't lose sight of the long term, that's how they (the people who will inevitably abuse this legislation) get ya.
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Just my .02
The Patriot Act is an abuse.
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
-B. Franklin
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If their names have lotsa of a's and i's and hyphens, give em an anal search every day and twice on thursday:aok
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The patriot act is voted on every year by congress and signed into law like same by the CIC, then it is challenged in the courts per the usual MBLA/NAACP challenges. Everything is working as it should.....I guess
The one thing the patriot DOES do well is bring out all the limp wristed pixies who like to fantasize about Bush being worse than Hitler and how just the thought of carl rove gives them chubs in the middle of the night :O
Hmmm,
Havent had an attack in 4 years. Something is working correctly, and it isnt the move'on-dot'org crowd, thats fer sure and fer certain.....
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Originally posted by Yeager
Hmmm,
Havent had an attack in 4 years. Something is working correctly
Great logic. There weren't any attacks like that from 1776 to Sept 10 2001 either, all with no Patriot act.
Repeat after me: Correlation does not equal causation.
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The one thing the patriot DOES do well is bring out all the limp wristed pixies who like to fantasize about Bush being worse than Hitler and how just the thought of carl rove gives them chubs in the middle of the night
I'm actually a Bush supporter....I just don't like the idea of the Patriot act...stuff like this just keeps chipping away at the our rights and giving the government more dangerous powers.
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Great but none of you who don't like the patriot act have yet to say anything bad/good about the wall between intel gatherers that it breaks down.
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Why was there a wall in the first place?
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well ASTAC, thats cool. Do your duty (if so inclined) and contact your elected reps and let them know how you feel, so they can take that into account next time they do the right thing and extend the patriot act.
Like I said, there is a check and balance system in place to prevent the abuse of power. Some of the limpier wristers would have us think the PA is exempt from congressional/judicial oversight, it is not. If it were, I would be in the front of the line dangling my limp wristies.
Two new changes that I have heard being proposed for the PA involve allowing a prosecuter the ability to appoint a new jury in the penalty phase of a trial if the first jury failed to impose a death sentance as requested by the prosecuter. This coould be a problem (it could be a solution to a problem....) anyway, I dont like it. Go for a mistrial and retry. The other change involved adding 300+ new definitions to the list of terror crimes punishable by death. I dont know what they are, but the artical also stated that there was congressional resistance to both proposed changes.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Why was there a wall in the first place?
I beleive it had to do with the CIA's charter not allowing itself to operate on American soil. If the CIA had info that would benifit the FBI or vis versa they were not allowed to share it. One part of the patriot act brought down this wall.