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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Squire on October 26, 2005, 02:37:28 PM

Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Squire on October 26, 2005, 02:37:28 PM
Did a search and couldnt find the answer, so, if you dont mind, what octane did VVS gas have?

87?

100?

The Ki-84 thread got me wondering, as posters were commenting on Japanese fuel quality.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on October 26, 2005, 03:10:50 PM
In 41-42 it had an octane rating of 70-75.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Squire on October 26, 2005, 03:16:44 PM
Yikes, that is low, any idea what it was 44-45?
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: gripen on October 26, 2005, 03:46:57 PM
At least the Klimov M-105 required 95 octane fuel.

gripen
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Tails on October 26, 2005, 04:05:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
In 41-42 it had an octane rating of 70-75.


That IS low. Might that have limited the range of some Russian aircraft? Because of running rich to prevent detonating?
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Tilt on October 26, 2005, 04:56:58 PM
Ash 82 FN used on La5FN and La7 used 4B-78  fuel with a minimum octane level of 95.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: dankes on October 27, 2005, 07:52:58 AM
A gift for everyone interested

[Engine Type] [Fuel Mk (Octane #)]


[M105PF] [4B-78(95)]
[M105PA M105ÐA M105] [3,5B-78 (94)]
[M103A] [3,5B-78 (94) 1B-95 (96)]
[M103] [3B-74(91) 2B-78 (91) B-95 (94-95)]
[M100 M100A M100AÓ] [2B-70(85)]
[AM38] [4B-78(95)]
[AM35A] [4B-78(95)]
[AM34FRNV] [3B-78(93) 4B-74 (92) B-95 (94-95)]
[AM34RNV AM34N AM34RN M17] [2B-70(85)]
[M17] [B-70(70)]
[M88B M88] [3B-78(93) 4B-74 (92) B-95 (94-95)]
[M87B M87A M86] [2B-78 (91) 3B-74 (91) B-95]
[M85] [3B-70(87)]
[M82] [4B-78(95)]
[M63] [3B-78(93-94) B-95 (94-95)]
[M62] [3B-74(91)]
[M62IR M25 M11] [3B-74(91) 3B-70 (87) ARB-70 (70) KB-70 (70)]
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: dankes on October 27, 2005, 07:54:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dankes
A gift for everyone interested

[Engine Type] [Fuel Mk (Octane #)]




Orginal thread here http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/3/archive/404/404924.htm

in Russian
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Tilt on October 27, 2005, 09:11:20 AM
Klimov 107? per Yak9U ?
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: dankes on October 27, 2005, 09:26:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Klimov 107? per Yak9U ?


This info was originally extracted from the aircraft engines reference published in 1943


I suspect same as for M105PF2. AFAIR 107 had lesser compression ratio and significantly higher rpms
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Squire on October 27, 2005, 12:14:50 PM
Looks like @95 octane was a standard fuel then, from those #s, with a few exceptions.

I would be interested to know what types of RAF and USAAF lend lease machines did good or not so good with that fuel. Just for info. I have never read anything about that specifically. Certainly the P-39 had no problem.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: gripen on October 27, 2005, 01:12:27 PM
Here (http://www.fuelcat.co.uk/history.html) is an article, I can't decide if it's just a commercial or historical facts but a good read anyway :) The Russian fuels seem to be rated just at weak micture so it's difficult to say if the rich rating was close the US or UK fuels.

FAF used 87 octane + some amount of alcohol with the M-63 and M-105. Another way was to mix 87 and 100 octane fuel to get about 95 octane fuel.

gripen
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Tilt on October 27, 2005, 01:29:23 PM
I had an article somewhere about a fuel additive that the VVS had to use for lend lease merlins............
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Squire on October 27, 2005, 01:54:35 PM
Thanks, very interesting article.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: dankes on October 28, 2005, 01:40:01 AM
A bit about soviet fuel Mks

4B-78(95) is a mixture of base gas with octane 78 and 4 cubic cms of tetraethyl lead (called R-9) per liter of base gas with effective octane # 95.

From the several cobra (and other lend-lease crafts) pilot's stories, planes were nearly always fueled with lend-lease 95- and 100- octane fuel, at least from the mid 42.

I have no figures though how much lend-lease fuel were delivered.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: Squire on October 28, 2005, 02:57:53 AM
"4B-78(95) is a mixture of base gas with octane 78 and 4 cubic cms of tetraethyl lead (called R-9) per liter of base gas with effective octane # 95."

But does it mix with scotch?

Thx for the info.
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: dankes on October 28, 2005, 05:09:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire

But does it mix with scotch?

Thx for the info.



Finns did that... lol
Title: Question re Russian avgas
Post by: gripen on October 28, 2005, 04:01:54 PM
Well, not scotch but ethanol :) And not only the Finns, also the Swedes used alcohol with avgas and IIRC also the Germans; before the C3, they used C2 which had some alcohol addition.

gripen