Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Boroda on April 12, 2001, 01:58:00 PM
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40 years ago, on April, 12th, 1961, the first representative of the Humanity broke the bounds of gravity and broke into Space.
I am proud that Yuri Gagarin was a Russian pilot, but he started the Great Race that enforced the progress of the whole Humanity.
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Well, ironically, the "race" was for a different reason politically than what the outcome of the race is today...but I agree that it was good for mankind. <S> Yuri!
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He orbited!!! Not just an up and down thingie like Shepherd, but orbited!! John Glen was the USA first orbit after others just "up and down".
Ya, <S> Yuri!! They had no idea if a man could survive!! A few dogs had made it but the great unknown was could a man survive!!
Yuri had to have guts!! BIG TIME!!!
Has it been 40 years<gulp>? Where does the time go????
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 04-12-2001).]
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You guys must be living on some other Earth then I do. The space race is one of the darkest examples of human history.
The race was political and military. All the real progress was made by the time the scientists developed the theory and working plans.
After an the animal surviving in orbit proved that there were no unforseen dangers to life, there were no real reason to sent people there or to the moon. Other then to sucker russians into spending billions they could ill afford... May be cheaper then blowing each others up, but still a waste.
The whole project makes me sick, not proud when I think what the race cost in lives to the Russian people who's country was devastated by war.
If they (russians or americans) were interested in progress, they would have instituted the international program long time ago, pooled resourses instead of duplicating the efforts.
The actual commertial exploitation of orbiting satellites came much later and with much less fanfare.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Miko,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe it would have been better if the space race had never taken place? if the Russians had never orbited a person and the US had never sent a man to the moon?
I agree with you in that they were dark times; but the outcome sure aint dark. When Colombus set out to the Indies he sure wasnt thinking about the good of humanity, he was thinking about gold, spices, Spaniard superiority, and when he got here, raping indian girls.
But look what all that wrong lead to. Great progress.
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Twenty years ago today the US of A launched the 1st space shuttle. This feat has not been duplicated by any other country in the world and doesn't look like it will any time soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-1/index.html (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-1/index.html)
The space race was just another race the Russians lost to the US..
(http://www.twc-tampa.com/mdisalle/flag.gif)
Eagler
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 04-12-2001).]
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<S> Yuri. He went all that way (and back) safely in little more than a tin can, but died in a plane crash 9 years after his pioneering flight.
Ironic.
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The first man to orbit the earth (http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/man.htm) died in space, due to inferior Soviet technology, and his name is still a Red secret.
The second person to orbit the earth was Vladimir Ilyushin (http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/ilyushin.htm). But due to Communist technical incompetence his capsule landed in China, and he was severely injured, so the Reds covered up his mission as well.
Gagarin was launched a day later, and became the third man to fly in orbit. However this only makes his accomplishment more impressive, as it must have required true bravery to strap into a machine which had just killed one man and left another near death!
However his bravery was repaid in cruel fashion, when in 1968 it was decided that he was "unreliable" and too much of a risk to expose the truth because of his feelings of guilt over the whole affair. So his aircraft was sabotaged, and the rest, as they say, is "history".
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Ruskies have never announced any flights up front. They've alway announced a successful mission after the fact. Thus
Vostok 1, Vostok 2, Vostok 7, Vostok8, Vostok 11...
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Hey Mike,
your link does not seem to work. Can you double check it
thanks
[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by Animal:
Miko,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe it would have been better if the space race had never taken place?
Depends on your point of view. It was great and almost bloodless (for americans) way to bankrupt communists - more humane then bombing each other.
But the technology would have advanced no matter what and every passing year the same feat would have been much cheaper - same as the Columbus expedition.
Remember - they did not even have decent computers then and the flight was actually controlled by analog computers because digital ones were too slow.
Few years later many of the experiments could have been modelled on the computer instead of flying into space... Or sending computers into space to perform automated experiments. Of course those times certain computing principles were considered anti-communist in russia with severe concequences to their proponents - same as genetics or botanics...
For pure technological/scientific outcome the same money could have brought bigger return.
Columbus was financed by private funds of spanish kings, US program was financed by US congress democratically elected. US ended WWII richer and more powerfull then it was before it.
Russian space program was financed by the communist clique while their countrymen lived in squalor and died from hunger and sickness.
Don't get me wrong - we would have been in space no matter what - that is inevitable with technological progress.
Those days I can go to the store and by myself a decent airplane for my four month salary, no big deal, or a yacht that would have better chance to make it across the ocean then Columbus ships did. If US had a program to perform a non-stop round-the world aircraft flight in 1910, it would have cost billions and many lives. When such flight actually happened, barely anyone noticed.
Americans had connertial use of satellites for many years. Russian can launch other people's satellites into orbit but cannot make decent ones.
The results of progress is what people can use, not a feather in the hat of a power-mad politician.
miko
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The Space Race aside, Funked's points aside...
I will salute the man, Yuri.
It takes big brass ones to strap on what amounts to an experimental machine and "boldly go where no man had gone before."
(well, at least went & got credit for it, right Funk? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
The Regime? No, not gonna salute that.
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Are you sure the commies even asked him whether he wants to go? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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There is no denying it. There German rocket scientist were faster off the mark than out German rocket scientist.
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Twenty years ago today the US of A launched the 1st space shuttle. This feat has not been duplicated by any other country in the world and doesn't look like it will any time soon.
The space race was just another race the Russians lost to the US..
Isn't the Ariane considered more efficient and profitable?
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Twenty years ago today the US of A launched the 1st space shuttle. This feat has not been duplicated by any other country in the world and doesn't look like it will any time soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-1/index.html (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-1/index.html)
The space race was just another race the Russians lost to the US..
(http://www.twc-tampa.com/mdisalle/flag.gif)
Eagler
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 04-12-2001).]
The fact the NASA choose the SAME date is innocent ?
Btw it won't change anything the race for the 1st man in space was lost 20 year before (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
I doubt that in 100 year anyone cab recall of the shuttle but Gagarine won't be forgiven
as he was a man not a machine
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Yuri Gagarin <S!>
Cosmonauts & Astronauts <S!>
All for the search of Knowledge, and the Truth which lies within.
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ya forgot "Spacionautes" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(for Europeans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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Funked, don't make me laugh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There were 7 launches of Vostok before Gagarin flew, only 3 were successful. But Gagarin was the first man who flew it.
BTW, USSR announced that we launched a man to space immediately after takeoff, so peasants who met Gagarin when he landed already knew he's a cosmonaut, not another American spy shot down.
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Yet Gagarin denied for many years taking a camera with him, when we know that both he and his predecessor ilyushin were snapping photos of American military installations.
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Boroda's new theme song for the USSR:
<Bruce Springsteen: "Glory Days">
Now I think I'm going down to the well tonight
and I'm going to drink till I get my fill
And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days
Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days
Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Toad, unfortunately I have to admit that you are right.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
DDT has a song, written in 1991, called almost like another Sprigstin's song: "Born in the USSR". "Yesterda you were a master of an empire, but now you are an orphan"...
Here is a link to an MP3 file:
http://www.rmp.ru/rus-mp3.asp?i=873 (http://www.rmp.ru/rus-mp3.asp?i=873)
It's a song they sang on the barricades in August, 1991...
В начале был вечер,
Потом настал я.
Вчера слово да ветер,
Сегодня земля.
На кладбище старом,
Где воскресали враги
Я кое-что понял,
Встав с левой ноги.
Припев:
Э..э-й,
Рожденный в СССР!
Э..э-й,
Рожденный в СССР!
Ни секунды без драки,
Верим в жизнь и смерть.
В глаза твоей собаки
Нам не страшно смотреть.
Сегодня, победа,
Пойми и прости.
Нам ничего не осталось,
Но есть, что донести.
Припев:
Ты чем дальше, тем круче
Ты почти закат.
Здравствуй, древняя Русь,
Я твой нервный брат.
Что вернет нам надежда?
Что спасет красота?
Ты вчера был хозяин империи,
А теперь сирота.
Припев: *2
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Borado, you are very young (under 30 right) and most of the cold war you experienced was at an age that you wouldn't have understood it very well.
No one "won" the cold war, not the US, not Russia, in the long run, we just had a bunch of losers!
Let's drop these Cold Wars we have on the BBS, and accept each other for what we are, rather than spewing arrogance, who did what first, etc. etc. The war is OVER.
Peace Brothers!
(And Borado, don't drink so much! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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Originally posted by Boroda:
Toad, unfortunately I have to admit that you are right.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
DDT has a song, written in 1991, called almost like another Sprigstin's song: "Born in the USSR". "Yesterda you were a master of an empire, but now you are an orphan"...
Here is a link to an MP3 file:
http://www.rmp.ru/rus-mp3.asp?i=873 (http://www.rmp.ru/rus-mp3.asp?i=873)
It's a song they sang on the barricades in August, 1991...
В начале был вечер,
Потом настал я.
Вчера слово да ветер,
Сегодня земля.
На кладбище старом,
Где воскресали враги
Я кое-что понял,
Встав с левой ноги.
Припев:
Э..э-й,
Рожденный в СССР!
Э..э-й,
Рожденный в СССР!
Ни секунды без драки,
Верим в жизнь и смерть.
В глаза твоей собаки
Нам не страшно смотреть.
Сегодня, победа,
Пойми и прости.
Нам ничего не осталось,
Но есть, что донести.
Припев:
Ты чем дальше, тем круче
Ты почти закат.
Здравствуй, древняя Русь,
Я твой нервный брат.
Что вернет нам надежда?
Что спасет красота?
Ты вчера был хозяин империи,
А теперь сирота.
Припев: *2
Everyone ... Sing Along !!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(looking for Russian plug-in translator)
Eagler
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LOL Mike (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There was only one guy who died before Gagarin flew, it happened during some sort of ground test and fire broke out inside of the capsule. He was burned alive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Other then that, there were no other deaths, until much later on. Even Histry Channel doesn't alter real history as much you just did (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
mx22
Originally posted by funked:
The first man to orbit the earth (http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/man.htm) died in space, due to inferior Soviet technology, and his name is still a Red secret.
The second person to orbit the earth was Vladimir Ilyushin (http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/ilyushin.htm). But due to Communist technical incompetence his capsule landed in China, and he was severely injured, so the Reds covered up his mission as well.
Gagarin was launched a day later, and became the third man to fly in orbit. However this only makes his accomplishment more impressive, as it must have required true bravery to strap into a machine which had just killed one man and left another near death!
However his bravery was repaid in cruel fashion, when in 1968 it was decided that he was "unreliable" and too much of a risk to expose the truth because of his feelings of guilt over the whole affair. So his aircraft was sabotaged, and the rest, as they say, is "history".
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Boroda,
I think it must lose something in the on-line translator? Would you care to correct this?
I'm with Rip. I'm just glad the Cold War is over and glad that it ended without a "BANG". We all were (and are) lucky.
I hope everyone realizes NOW how pointless it all was.
I hope and pray that we all don't have to go through this again with the Chinese.
Translated ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) by: http://www.toogeyes3-d.com/trans.html (http://www.toogeyes3-d.com/trans.html)
In the beginning evening was, I have then come.
Yesterday a word yes a wind, Today the ground.
On a cemetery old Where enemies I something revived has understood, Having risen with of the left leg.
Born in the USSR!
Born in the USSR!
Seconds without fight, we Trust in life and death.
In eyes of your dog it is not terrible to us to look.
Today, a victory, Understand and forgive.
To us of nothing remained, But is what to inform
Born in the USSR!
Born in the USSR!
You the further, the more abruptly you almost a decline.
Hi, ancient Russia, I your nervous brother. What the hope will return to us?
What the beauty will rescue?
You yesterday were the owner of empire, And now the orphan.
Born in the USSR!
Born in the USSR!
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Damn I spend two hours digging up such great bait, and I can't catch any fishies! I was going to make up some stuff but then I found some idiots with that web site, who had already made up a great story. I made up the part about Gagarin by myself though. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The guy who actually died (on the ground) was Valentin Bondarenko. RIP.
<S> to Gagarin for his huge balls (and being the first man in orbit)!!!
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Damn, then I saw Mike's troll, and went digging myself.
I _did_ find sites that actually claimed what Funked said he "made up" about Gagarin.
Evidently, he was drinking heavily and feeling guilty about not being the first, and shooting his mouth off.
It's all a lie; but there's a TV documentary out there that claims to have spoken with "Ilyushin himself" and further substantiate this BS.
This stuff is even more fun than the "faked moonlanding" crap.
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Toad, let me correct the robotranslator and ad some comments. Yuri Shevchuk, DDT leader, writes strange and passionate lyrics, kinda hard to translate. BTW, RedAnt once told me he worked with DDT when they were recording some tracks in NYC.
At the beginning there was evning,
Then came I.
Yesterday there were word and the wind,
Today there is land.
On an old cemetery
Where enemies were resurrecting
I understood some things
After waking up from left foot.
/* "to wake up from left foot" (vstat' s levoy nogi) means to spoil your day from the very beginning, to wake up in a bad or agressive mood */
Not even a second without a fight,
/* "draka" means fist-fight, not a "battle" */
We believe in life and death,
We're not afraid to look
Into your watchdog's eyes.
Today it's a Victory,
So - understand and forgive.
There is nothing left for us,
But we have something to bring to you so you will be able to understand it.
/* my unsuccessful attempt to translate the verb "donesti", please note that "donesti" here is a different word, not "donesti" as a form of "donosit'" = "to inform, to whistle". */
You get harder and harder /* more tough */ as you go on,
You are almost a sunset now.
I greet you, Ancient Russia,
I am your nervous brother.
What the hope will return to us?
What the beauty will save?
/* "Beauty will save the world", a quote from Russian classic. */
You were a master of Empire yesterday,
But now you are an orphan.
Here is a link to a video clip: http://www.ddt.ru/video/cccr.rm (http://www.ddt.ru/video/cccr.rm)
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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To the jingoistic Americans who posted..hold your heads in shame, Boroda posted marking this feat, not as a slur on anyone just making a post to commemorate the occassion. Ripsnort is right, the cold war was over years ago, no winners just a end to a worrying period in time, why you guys have to post back your jingoistic chest beating roadkill is beyond me! <S> To Ripsnort for proving there are rational Americans who can give credit to other countries for their endeavours.
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Revvin, I was kidding. Go order yourself an extra-large sense of humor, tell them funked sent you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Quote:
"the cold war was over years ago, no winners just a end to a worrying period in time"
What "Cold War" are you talking about??? The one i'am aware of had a very definite winner......
Cabby
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What was the end result cabby?
Massive amounts of resources poured into a bottomless pit of arms development to create more powerful weapons to point at each other and scare the crap out of both populations. A crippled, unstable country still holding enough nukes to vaporise large parts of the Earth. The segregation of a continent into one that is vastly wealthy and another which is tremendously poor.
Was it really worth it? It was a pyrric victory really, in a pointless war. Hardly something to be proud of and definitely not man's finest hour.
Like Toad says, we are fortunate we are still here to discuss it.
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No, Dowding, I think you miss it.
It WAS clearly a waste but it had to be done. If you really think about it, there was no other way.
The debut of atomic weapons was a watershed event in the history of mankind. This fact made
IMO, the Cold War was man's attempt to come to grips with the new reality ... that we truly could end human life on earth... with the turn of a few keys in remote silos.
We wasted resources, scared each other witless ... true. But maybe that had to happen for us ALL to see that this was a pointless, zero-sum, losing game.
I hope it is over and that the lesson has been absorbed by all.
I have my doubts, however. Some nations are still rushing to build more of these weapons.
What a shame if we have to do this all over again.
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Sorry, what hurts is that both sides had their share of humans and of amazinhunks. In the end, the amazinhunks won out, and we had the cold war.
Sorry guys, you wanna believe the commies started it? Uhhh... The commies rose up against the old regime. Those of us with an economic interest in the old regime worked to combat that.
Now, fast forward to post-WW2, who's the bad guy? In one corner, there's the Dictatorship of Stalin, the man who introduced the world to the industrial application of the airbrush.
On the other hand, there's the Henry Ford-(btw, big financial supporter of "nationalist movements" in places like Germany in the early thirties)inspired amurricans who wanna claim that the God-hating communists had been planning to take us over from day one. Given the clear and present danger to the American Way of Life™, we had no choice but to challenge their pinko asses.
The answer, as our Russian colleagues are happy to point out, can probably be obtained by "reading between the lines".
For those of you scoring at home: morons and ideologues on both sides got us in to this fcin' mess. And the USA is probly the only country left not to realize that morons and ideologues are essentially identical.
Dinger
(pissed off, stinking drunk, "sure, I'm going to hell; my wits have left me, but common sense hasn't")
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Quote:
"; my wits have left me, but common sense hasn't")"
You could have fooled me........
Yeh, kiddies, wars suck(even cold ones)so it's always a good idea to WIN 'em if you are gonna participate. Some of the Old World "enlightened" nations can be SO beastly to the losers.
Another advantage of winning the Cold War is that the authors of some of the revisionist BS posted above have been relegated to the looney fringe of the old-and-in-the-way Leftover...er Left Wing.......
Cabby
[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 04-14-2001).]
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Ahh, Cabby,
<smooch>
We haven't won the cold war, we've only changed the battleground. Hell, we still want to spend ridiculous amounts of money on ridiculous projects like SDI II.
Sure we outspent the rooskies, but don't even start to think about what we could have done with that money if both sides weren't so terribly afraid of the Other Guy.
On the other hand, if we won the Cold War, then we would have brought Democratic Enlightenment and the Glory of Capitalism to the former Warsaw Pact countries. The standard of living in those places will have skyrocketed, and the happy masses will once again breathe the fresh air of Freedom.
As it stands, those lucky to have jobs work for GE Capital.
Now, that's not entirely true. I remember seeing a lot of well employed Russians, Bulgarians, Rumanians and Ukrainians last year when I was on Cyprus. They were working in the sex-slave industry.
Yee-haw! We kicked them Rooskies asses! Now all their women are belong to us!
So in the end, our side is still looking to fight the cold war with somebody, and the other side has suffered 10 years of turmoil. Our war has not been won, and human tragedy no matter for celebration, regardless of what the gun-toting bible-thumpin' redneck right wing might claim.
Now, if I did believe that we had won, I certainly wouldn't think it prudent to celebrate the fact. Perhaps this example will illuminate my prospective. Last year I was in Lebanon, or more precisely between the Lebanon and the Translebanon -- you know, you drive along the road and see Zsu-23s emplacements, nice arrangements of SA arty, T-72s, the works. Over some of these camps there's the flag of Lebanon; Over others, that of Syria; still others have the flag of the Hezbollah.
I stop at some place and buy a coke, paying with a US dollar bill.
The guy selling it to me does so while muttering some anti-american insult in arabic. I smile and think "Scoreboard".
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 04-15-2001).]
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I'm still waiting for that "peace dividend".
So far... massive base closures, reduction in force, acquisition reform that so far has more failures than successes... and... oh hey... my taxes haven't went down yet...
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Before you fellas run out to the garage to start beating that sword into a plowshare. You might remember that there are entire generation of Russians that were taught from birth to hate Americans. Not to mention a few hundred million Chinese that think we are all thugs and bully's.
It ain't over, until its over.
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...and it won't EVER be over.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
I'm still waiting for that "peace dividend". my taxes haven't went down yet...
Hey, been watching what's happening in Congress lately? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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of money on ridiculous projects like SDI II.
Wonder what you'd think about SDI defense after the Chinese lob the first nuke at LA in say 10 years or so. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Or are you still a MAD doctrine kind of guy?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Let's see.
China lobs a nuke at Los Angeles.
US deploys all kinds of gee-whiz technology: Orbital X-ray lasers, 747-mountain lasters, brilliant pebbles, the works.
whooosh! we miss.
Hollywood beach turns into glass.
Eh. Who cares about LA anyway?
The only way SDI "Works" is by scaring the other guy into spending more money than he can afford on equally ridiculous countertechnologies.
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 04-15-2001).]
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Dinger,
I'll bet there were two different crowds hanging out around the bicycle shop in Dayton too.
Most of them were probably telling Orville and Wilbur that it was the dumbest, most expensive waste of time they had ever heard of.
The few were probably saying that this would be really nice. How can I help?
Galileo probably had the same situation.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hehehe. You're absolutely right Toad. SDI is gonna cause a paradigm shift of Galilean proportions. We will realize without a doubt that the universe actually revolves around a soft-xray laser just outside the Earth's atmosphere. Or like Wilbur and Orville, herald in a new era in transportation. In a couple generations, we'll wonder how anyone ever got by without a big-ass antimissile laser on their jet transports.
Technology Transfer, is the "Trickle Down Theory" applied to science. It's cheaper to do the research without wasting money.
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"You might remember that there are entire generation of Russians that were taught from birth to hate Americans"
And an entire generation of Americans taught from birth to hate Russians..
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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To dismiss the entire cold war as simply two identical sides posturing is extremely ignorant.
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PS - Bad place for this argument anyway, this thread is about Yuri remember?
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My point, Toad, is that it was definitely not something to be proud about, like your favourtie team winning at whatever sport you follow. Inevitable? Who's to say, but I don't believe there was any real progress or achievement - more like coming full circle.
Eastern Europe is as free as it was in 1930 and, like then, Russia has had a new government for about 10 years.
Globally, things have changed, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Hopefully that will be the case.
You seem to optimistic about the lessons learned. But I don't see that, I see a world rapidly running out of resources, while trying to control a population explosion already out of control in many parts of the world. Resource limitation has always been a source of conflict, and I can't see that ever changing.
I'm worried about it, because certain things are going to come to a head, probably in my lifetime and quite definitely in my children's.
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Originally posted by Fatty:
To dismiss the entire cold war as simply two identical sides posturing is extremely ignorant.
You mean there was a more noble cause? Hell... I thought we did it because war is good business. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Worked for some things... After all, the U.S. is the world's biggest arms exporter.
I can't complain... warfare and paranoid republikans help pay for my house, my cars, this computer... yadda yadda yadda
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Originally posted by Daff:
"You might remember that there are entire generation of Russians that were taught from birth to hate Americans"
And an entire generation of Americans taught from birth to hate Russians..
Daff
Hey Daff... which generation was that? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yes, the Berlin Airlift was solely so that hopefully someday we could sell them ammunition.
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Fatty,
You are right. Wrong thread. So, I'll hold off. I'm certain there will be yet another opportunity. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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You can take anything out of context and make it sound different from what was intended.
If you read the posts before mine. And my entire post. It should be obvious that I was talking to the "we won the cold war" people.
America has a bad habit of decimating its military between wars. This, for example, led to the unnecessary deaths of many American service men at the beginning of WW2.
My point was, our potential enemys are still very well armed. The Russians didn't shove billions of dollars worth of hardware into a hole, and cover it up. They still are capable of waging war. And unfortunately so are many others.
History has proven they wont leave us alone because they love peace. And they sure as hell aren't going to do it because the love Americans. Our best hope for peace, is a very healthy respect for our military's capability.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 04-16-2001).]