Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Krusher on October 31, 2005, 10:23:05 AM
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Just kidding, but it is full of rioting Muslims
CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/31/france.riots.reut/index.html)
BOBIGNY, France (Reuters) -- Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday defended his tough crime policies against claims they helped increase tension after a fourth night of rioting in a Paris suburb in which tear gas was fired into a mosque.
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It's not Paris.
And were did you got the rioter were muslim ??
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Originally posted by straffo
It's not Paris.
And were did you got the rioter were muslim ??
LOL straffo nice to see you around :)
i guess he got this information from CNN
Anyway ... you didnt note in other thread, that all extremists and people who cause problems seems to be muslims ?
(at least some of our US mates got that feeling :) )
damm i saw cool french **** .. they had pretty cool gals ( now i have dilema whitch mix is nicer... french+arabs or chinese+arabs).... umm
anyway i got invitation to visit france from one czech guy, whitch i meet in Ukrajine few months ago... So im going to investigate those riots... baaaaa
(btw be carefull about whinning CNN, they might liberate all your frogs and snails )
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It's a fair bet they are Muslim. That's what I would assume also, based on the description of what happened.
I am, of course, available to the Imam of the Clichy mosque to let him have all the details in order to understand how and why a tear gas bomb was sent into this mosque," Sarkozy told about 170 police officers at the Seine-Saint-Denis prefecture in Bobigny, the local authority which oversees Clichy-sous-Bois.
He also met the president of the Muslim community for the Clichy area.
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Originally posted by straffo
It's not Paris.
And were did you got the rioter were muslim ??
Ok a paris suburb LOL
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western europe is being invaded by islam.
Ever notice how the islamic nations do not allow christianity to enter their borders (or keep the tiny christain minorities under strict control) but the stupid christian nations let the muslims in like lemmings.
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Originally posted by Yeager
western europe is being invaded by islam.
Ever notice how the islamic nations do not allow christianity to enter their borders (or keep the tiny christain minorities under strict control) but the stupid christian nations let the muslims in like lemmings.
Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
Unfortunately, the way that extemist islam rides on the back of the mainstream islam that is inevitable.
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Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
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If it is in the interests of national security?
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
Personally I think there should be a limit on people immigrating to the US from crappy countries. Say 250k a year max from Mexico, china,any third world country, combined.
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"It [has] been the wise policy of these states to extend the protection of their laws to all those who should settle among them of whatever nation or religion they might be and to admit them to a participation of the benefits of civil and religious freedom, and... the benevolence of this practice as well as its salutary effects [has] rendered it worthy of being continued in future times." --Thomas Jefferson: Proclamation, 1781. Papers 4:505
If we start to compromise our beliefs in basic human rights because of fear, under the guise of national security, then we as a nation undermine the principals our forfathers paid for with their blood. We will become a hollow nation that cannot practice what we so boldly preach.
There is no compromise. We either stand up for what's right or the great republic our forfathers set up for us fails.
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What France needs to do is open up some White Castle franchises in order to balance out the Muslim influence.
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this is not 1781, defend your country or lose it.
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Originally posted by john9001
this is not 1781, defend your country or lose it.
If we were to use your line of reasoning, than we could say that the Constitution and Declaration are outdated and no longer relevant.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Unalienable rights are timeless and yes even those who follow Islam have the right to pursue happiness in this great country of ours.
To lose your foundation is to lose your country.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
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If it is in the interests of national security?
Then you'd have to bar christians as well. I don't recall any Muslims bombing abortion clinics in the US...
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then you'd have to bar christians as well. I don't recall any Muslims bombing abortion clinics in the US...
ack-ack
I see but I dont recall thousands of christians dancing in the streets when that happened 10 years ago.
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I don't recall any Muslims bombing abortion clinics in the US...
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maybe because the christians are doing a good enough job at killing themselves prenatal without any haji help?
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Unrest spread across troubled suburbs around Paris in a sixth night of violence Tuesday as police clashed with angry youths and scores of vehicles were torched in at least nine towns, local officials said.
...........If this was LA you think it might be called racism?
Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy _ blamed by many for fanning the violence with tough talk and harsh tactics _ met Tuesday night in Paris with youths and officials from Clichy-sous-Bois in a bid to cap days of rioting. But the unrest spread even as they met. Sarkozy recently referred to the troublemakers as "scum" and "riffraff."
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Can you say "Islamic Nation of France"
The european seat of the coming Caliphate?
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For the benefit of Lada, the Washington Post reported in an article which fell all over itself to be sympathetic to the rioters:
"The clashes began last Thursday after two African Muslim teenagers were electrocuted in the northeastern suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois while trying to evade police. On Sunday, as the street fighting continued, a police tear gas canister landed inside a mosque during Ramadan prayers, further inflaming the impoverished communities."
I love the Post, "further inflaming the impoverished communities" - translation, this has nothing, repeat nothing to do with Islam. They are rioting because they are poor and oppressed. The French have bags of money and plenty of high paying jobs they refuse to give to these poor immigrants. If only they would just share, then all their troubles would go away. Better yet, the French should leave the keys to the country on their way out. After all, they'd all fit in Quebec.
The boys, incidentally, were running away from the police and died when they scaled a fence and landed in an electrical substation.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
I love the Post, "further inflaming the impoverished communities" - translation, this has nothing, repeat nothing to do with Islam. They are rioting because they are poor and oppressed. The French have bags of money and plenty of high paying jobs they refuse to give to these poor immigrants.
Actually it's not very far from truth.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Can you say "Islamic Nation of France"
The european seat of the coming Caliphate?
Yeager, why we don't have any troubles like that in Russia, except Chechnya (where the problem is not in Islam but in their traditions)?
Why there are no riots in Tatarstan, Bashkiria or any other Moslim autonomy?
Why there are no Moslim "pogroms" in Moscow, where we have over 10% of Azeri population now officially, and it's not counting other Islamic nations living here, like Tatars, Chechens, Tajiks etc?
Hmmm. I thought about it for a while and came to a conclusion that - I don't know.
I only can say about some accidents when I think something has to be done, like slaughtering a lamb for Kurban-Bairam at the playground in kids sandbox.
Maybe I am a "freak" in terms of "Great-Russian" bigots - but I really like Azeri guys who run small shops in my district. I always show respect - and they do the same thing.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
They are rioting because they are poor and oppressed.
Why not go and get a job?
Here we don't have migrant "ghettos", and no unemployed foreigners. Vietnamese people prefer to live together, but they also work together in markes, it's easier for them to stick together because of language problems.
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well... if the froggies have the right idea about muslims and we are wrong then everything will work out fine for them.
lazs
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Originally posted by Boroda
Yeager, why we don't have any troubles like that in Russia, except Chechnya (where the problem is not in Islam but in their traditions)?
Why there are no riots in Tatarstan, Bashkiria or any other Moslim autonomy?
Why there are no Moslim "pogroms" in Moscow, where we have over 10% of Azeri population now officially, and it's not counting other Islamic nations living here, like Tatars, Chechens, Tajiks etc?
Hmmm. I thought about it for a while and came to a conclusion that - I don't know.
I only can say about some accidents when I think something has to be done, like slaughtering a lamb for Kurban-Bairam at the playground in kids sandbox.
Maybe I am a "freak" in terms of "Great-Russian" bigots - but I really like Azeri guys who run small shops in my district. I always show respect - and they do the same thing.
It's almost always about respect, boroda. That's one reason our only islamIST problems in the USA seem to be imported. The large Middle Eastern/Islamic community here in the Toledo-Detroit area is pretty peaceful, productive, and part of the community.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Are you suggesting that the US, the land of the free and the home of the brave, not allow people to come to this great nation soley on the basis of their religion?
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If it is in the interests of national security?
"Recht ist, was dem deutschen Volke nützt, Unrecht, was ihm schadet."
Adolf Hilter 1933
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Originally posted by straffo
Actually it's not very far from truth.
Don't the French have WalMarts?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Why not go and get a job?
Doubletake...
Originally posted by Boroda
Why not go and get a job?
Would Stalin approve of this capitalist sentiment?
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Maybe they are protesting the French occupation of the West Bank ?
Nov 2, 2005 — PARIS (Reuters) - Violence broke out in Paris suburbs for the seventh night running overnight on Thursday. Youths went on the rampage in a total of nine areas in poor suburbs ringing the French capital to the north and the east, setting alight about 40 cars, two buses, and dustbins, a local authority official said.
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"Recht ist, was dem deutschen Volke nützt, Unrecht, was ihm schadet."
Adolf Hilter 1933
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translated =
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"Is quite, which is useful to the German people, Wrongly, which harms it"
Ok and this should relate in exactly what way with the national security of the united states regarding muslim militant extremism?
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What straffo said. The more things change..
They ran from the cops... and how hard is it to understand (http://www.direct-signaletique.com/images_bdd/bd/pictos/normal/brady692.gif)?
The kids of that clique are uneducated idiots, and they've found a match in bitter and equally stupid locals. I grew up with a lot of them, and their ideals are full of it, top to bottom.
They might not have the means that US deliquents have, but they know their streetfighting.
If you want to see a more or less accurate movie about that lifestyle, rent "Hate" by Matthieu Kassovitz. It's from 10 years ago, but it's still mostly the same.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
The boys, incidentally, were running away from the police and died when they scaled a fence and landed in an electrical substation.
- SEAGOON
Well if i got it right from French media, they are rioting because they belive, that police forced those 2 youths to enter that el. substation. While police insist, they tried to hide there.
At least this was the problem from very begining.
Is it correct straffo ?
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Originally posted by moot
(http://www.direct-signaletique.com/images_bdd/bd/pictos/normal/brady692.gif)
God will bless you inside ? :D
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(http://www.direct-signaletique.com/images_bdd/bd/pictos/normal/brady692.gif)
Beware of Zeus!
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No it points to their necklace (key to heaven) saying 'Enter'.
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Originally posted by lada
Well if i got it right from French media, they are rioting because they belive, that police forced those 2 youths to enter that el. substation. While police insist, they tried to hide there.
At least this was the problem from very begining.
Is it correct straffo ?
I think so
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We'll never know. It's always hearsay, both sides relish on opportunities to accuse the other of responsibility for the neighbourhood going to ****, each for their own reasons.
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Straffo, remember that story about the (pregnant?) white chick who got mugged/raped/whatever by some foreigners in the RER?
That sort of "insecurity" is a joke over there...
The first thing I told the first friend I made when I got back here, was how absurd the sight of regular people bending over to racailles at the smallest hint of danger was. Give em that, and they'll just keep taking more...
I know in Phoenix, that sorta situation would've seen the racketeer get his bellybutton kicked more often than not.
And look at even those fashion trends: shirts with "Produit de banlieue / explosif/whatever" ... too ****in funny.. just unbelievable the leverage those morons have on youth.
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I remember ,she was a psycho.
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Her case was symptomatic of the whole thing is what I mean.
The way everyone, all the way up to Chirac, picked up on it?
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damm moot&straffo .. you made many people sad, that you are not bashing religion stuff overhere :D
lol im looking forward to see that french mess, it might be fun.... anyone want to go for a beer next month ? :D
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religion stuff?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Yeager, why we don't have any troubles like that in Russia, except Chechnya (where the problem is not in Islam but in their traditions)?
Why there are no riots in Tatarstan, Bashkiria or any other Moslim autonomy?
umm because Tatarstan, Bashkiria have "Autonomy", while Checenyan doesnt have it, but want it? ;)
edit: yeep Moot, check first 5 posts.
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You mean religion has no play in this?
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A part la religion du pognon ... non.
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Originally posted by moot
You mean religion has no play in this?
From my point of view .. as straffo said.. non.
At least you do not screaming around about "muslim extremists".
Or do you consider "muslim extremists" to be behind this situation ?
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I said what I thought and I didn't mention religion.
I think the situation sucks, and both sides (generalizing) are about equally responsible for it. As it is, I couldn't defend either. You get what you deserve in life, and somehow the people concerned by these riots and everything related to them got what they deserved.
It's a big pot of boiling ****, and my plan, if I had authority over the matter, would be to start with a clean slate.
As an individual, it's just not worth my time. Best thing for me to do is find somewhere else to live, where common sense and courtesy still are public domain.
and about islamists. You want to make sure people here (this forum) get it right, the clear-cut, well-defined definition of islamism and islamists and its different varients etc, what they did and what they didn't do, in the news and in the real world today or yesterday.
I think that's beside the point; I sure dont give a **** what they are beyond whether they **** with me or not. It doesn't matter if it's islamic or anarchist or communist or what the **** ever, if it believes I should give up my natural rights to it or its agenda, it's all in the same pot.
Living in those suburbs, it's no difference whether it's all the corrupt govt's, or the police's, or the whole macrosystem of society and religion and politics' fault: the result is the same.
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yeeep it make sense.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Would Stalin approve of this capitalist sentiment?
JFYI: in USSR it was a crime not to have a job.
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So harvesting the rewards of one's work without sharing with complete strangers absolutely unrelated to you was a crime?
Oh wait, they were related - in soviet russia, job owns you! [/derail]
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Originally posted by lada
umm because Tatarstan, Bashkiria have "Autonomy", while Checenyan doesnt have it, but want it? ;)
Chechnya has absoutely the same autonomy as above-mentioned Moslim republics. De facto Chechens have more autonomy now, they have their own armed forces and they get lots of Federal aid. The difference is that Tatars didn't throw non-Tatars from their homes, take their possessions or kill and rape anyone who didn't have a Kalashnikov.
Russian Empire and then USSR and now Russian Federation are really different from Westen countries.
In Russian Empire there never was any kind of national discrimination. In USSR there were 15 national republics and dozens of autonomies inside that republics, where local nationality got all kind of support for language, culture and traditions. Even now we have autonomous republics where official language is not Russian.
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Originally posted by moot
So harvesting the rewards of one's work without sharing with complete strangers absolutely unrelated to you was a crime?
Oh wait, they were related - in soviet russia, job owns you! [/derail]
It's not that easy.
USSR was a state of working people (ňđóä˙ůčĺń˙), I don't know how to translate this term closer to the original meaning.
"Parasitism" was a crime. But it doesn't mean that, for example, housewives had to get a job.
State guaranteed a job, accomodation and education for everyone. There was no such thing as unemployment, working hands were nessessary almost everywhere, anyone could get a job according to his qualification and education. Such terms as "unemployment", "inflation" or "homless people" was literally unknown, and it led to strange ideas about life in the West.
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Originally posted by Boroda
JFYI: in USSR it was a crime not to have a job.
True. Even the prisoners were employed.
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Originally posted by Boroda
It's not that easy.
USSR was a state of working people (ňđóä˙ůčĺń˙), I don't know how to translate this term closer to the original meaning.
"Parasitism" was a crime. But it doesn't mean that, for example, housewives had to get a job.
State guaranteed a job, accomodation and education for everyone. There was no such thing as unemployment, working hands were nessessary almost everywhere, anyone could get a job according to his qualification and education. Such terms as "unemployment", "inflation" or "homless people" was literally unknown, and it led to strange ideas about life in the West.
By the same token, bread lines were unknown, strange ideas in America.
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Originally posted by Suave
True. Even the prisoners were employed.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by NUKE
By the same token, bread lines were unknown, strange ideas in America.
It's happened before. If you have any family members over 80, and they're still relatively coherent, ask them about it.
(http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/T/1/gd8.gif)
(http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/b/1/gd41.gif)
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In America, anyone who wants to work, and is able to work, can find a job.
If you wish to be a bum in America, you can survive and probably live a better life than about 99% of the world's other bums.
America is still the land of opportunity and no other nation on earth has more opportunity.
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Originally posted by NUKE
By the same token, bread lines were unknown, strange ideas in America.
I have never stayed in a bread line for more then 5minutes. Bread = basic, most important food. No bread in stores = local authorities in big trouble. In 1964 problems with bread were one of the reasons to overthrowing that bald **** Mikita.
I have told you about "bread lines" many times, but you always know better. Unfortunately, 99% of so-called "free world" doesn't know anything about life in USSR, it's a great propaganda achievement, my hat off.
Again, JFYI: in USSR food ration cards were cancelled in 1947. Ask someone when in happened in UK. Cards were re-introduced in 1989, as a result of "democratisation" and "reconstruction".
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Originally posted by indy007
It's happened before. If you have any family members over 80, and they're still relatively coherent, ask them about it.
Yeah, it happened for a couple a of years in the 30's in America, as opposed to happening from the 30's through the end of Soviet times, at least
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Originally posted by Boroda
I have never stayed in a bread line for more then 5minutes.
I have never stood in line to get bread in my entire life. And we never have had food rations of any kind.
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Weird Boroda I could swear that I frequently read news about breadlines in soviet russia - and I was born in the early 70's. Or maybe that was just propaganda? Or maybe it was Boroda's MOTHER that stood in the breadline all days? LOL. Then again Borodas family was a priviledged one if I recall right his father being a high ranking military officer who certainly got several perks others didn't receive. Then again maybe Soviet time was really how you see it:
There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money. People were happily singing party approved songs even after they were being ratted by family members and sent to gulags.
I guess people had everything so great during soviet regime that they got so fed up with having no problems that they started a revolution. There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money.
Then, after the revolution, capitalists quickly destroyed all the jobs, ruined the economy AND polluted 90% of inhabited soil in a couple weeks. Correct me where I'm wrong Boroda.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, it happened for a couple a of years in the 30's in America, as opposed to happening from the 30's through the end of Soviet times, at least
Yes, such things happened in USSR in 1941-47, when a country was at war and laid in ruins. After industrial and agricultural production reached pre-war level in 1947 (it took only two years to literally build everything again) - there was no starvation in USSR.
I wonder what could happen in the US if, like Russia, it was at war in 1914-22 (in 1918-22 - all over the country), with all the industry destroyed, then - building everything from nothing in 15 years, then again 4 years of war that destroyed the whole country and took 20+ million lives, and again complete reconstruction in 2 years.
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That's true Boroda, and I agree. The US is lucky and has not had to bear that burdon.
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Actually, the US is lucky and I thank God for it. We are oceans away from 98% of our threats. No nation could hope to invade us.
We are no better than any other nation in history, but we are more fortunate than most.
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What about Canadians NUKE? Err.. I take that back. :D
The mexicans are slowly invading your country from within as inevitably as Global warming progresses. So really you're not oceans away from threats, you have one huge one as border neighbour. Just as we do. :D
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Weird Boroda I could swear that I frequently read news about breadlines in soviet russia - and I was born in the early 70's. Or maybe that was just propaganda? Maybe Soviet time was really how you see it:
There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money. People were happily singing party approved songs even after they were being ratted by family members and sent to gulags.
I guess people had everything so great during soviet regime that they got so fed up with having no problems that they started a revolution. There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money.
Then, after the revolution, capitalists quickly destroyed all the jobs, ruined the economy AND polluted 90% of inhabited soil in a couple weeks. Correct me where I'm wrong Boroda.
Well, it's again not that easy.
We had many good things in Soviet times. Unfortunately - the "revolution" (that in fact was nothing but treason and spreading enemy propaganda on our own expense) was a result of complete misunderstanding of so-called "capitalism" by 90% of the population. I was among that happy idiots who traded free medical treatment for chewing-gum and coca-cola.
USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.
About "gulags" - well, every state fights it's enemies, and people who were in prison for political crimes in the 70s should better be kept there - they are still enemies of Russia.
Another thing that you have to understand: noone except Russians needs strong prospering Russia. US don't need a "free and democratic" Russia, it needs it weak and starving. So it goes. Alexander III, the only Emperor that didn't wage wars, said: "Russia has only two allies: it's Army and Navy".
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Forgot to say: we had a lot of bad things in Soviet times too, but they are as hard for you to understand as for Soviet people to understand "unemployment", "inflation" or "homeless people" :(
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So you believe the russia was rebuilt in 2 years after the end of WW2 ? If so, how many lives were lost as a result of the forced labor and minimal rations ?
O never mind, it doesnt matter that those people were what we call here in the west "slave labor".
You really need to get out and get informed Boroda :O
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So you think that the bubble wouldn't have burst finally? That you could have continued to live your life and support the nation with technology dated 40 years back?
So you think that the foolish communists who immigrated to russia to build a new great workers country should still be locked in gulags simply for having second thoughts and trying to un-immigrate back home?
How many DDR escapees should be shot again on or under the wall in your opinnion? Clearly they were guilty of serious crimes against the nation.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, it's again not that easy.
We had many good things in Soviet times. Unfortunately - the "revolution" (that in fact was nothing but treason and spreading enemy propaganda on our own expense) was a result of complete misunderstanding of so-called "capitalism" by 90% of the population. I was among that happy idiots who traded free medical treatment for chewing-gum and coca-cola.
USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.
About "gulags" - well, every state fights it's enemies, and people who were in prison for political crimes in the 70s should better be kept there - they are still enemies of Russia.
Another thing that you have to understand: noone except Russians needs strong prospering Russia. US don't need a "free and democratic" Russia, it needs it weak and starving. So it goes. Alexander III, the only Emperor that didn't wage wars, said: "Russia has only two allies: it's Army and Navy".
Are saying that the US had'nt seen a war in 150 years?:confused:
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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, it's again not that easy.
USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.
The US is one reason why you even exist today. We have seen and fought wars from the begining of our existance. Your "planned" economy was a joke.
Why did you take part in the arms race? We ( US ) took part in the arms race and STILL live better than most of the world.
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As a sidenote Boroda, nothing would please me more than to see a Russia so prosperous that it never needed to invade another country again or spread its crime across the borders.
I'm really wishing that our neighbour giant will be one day a place where I can go to visit cool places and shopping without fear of being bullied by a corrupt police force or the mob. I really wish your industry will develop technically so that it will pollute less. In fact, I recently talked to an engineer who is currently building the St.Petersburg waste water purifying plant and he told me that this partly EU/Finnish funded project has been successful. Wtg!
So now a couple millions of persons will not dump unpurified wastewater to the Gulf of Finland anymore.
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Originally posted by Boroda
It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.
How is it obvious that a planned economy is more efficient? You had an arms race with the "less efficient" American economy, and lost by a HUGE margine.
Who forced you into an arms race?
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Originally posted by Flit
So you believe the russia was rebuilt in 2 years after the end of WW2 ? If so, how many lives were lost as a result of the forced labor and minimal rations ?
O never mind, it doesnt matter that those people were what we call here in the west "slave labor".
You really need to get out and get informed Boroda :O
Yes, I am living here, all my family lives here for hundreeds of years, and someone who watched a show on history channel and read a comic book calls me unimformed. True Western approach.
US made plans of attacking USSR since 1946, and they were frightened and surprised when in 1949 they discovered that USSR already has a Bomb. Reconstruction was a matter of survival. Do or die. Just like before WWII.
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Originally posted by NUKE
How is it obvious that a planned economy is more efficient? You had an arms race with the "less efficient" American economy, and lost by a HUGE margine.
Who forced you into an arms race?
According to Boroda, it was a country that had'nt seen war in 150 years, so that leaves out the US:D
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Originally posted by Flit
Are saying that the US had'nt seen a war in 150 years?:confused:
Last war you saw was a Civil war.
Or I missed something and you had your country occupied by foreign invaders who planned to eliminate all your population? Or you had whole cities bombed down to ashes? Or millions starved in siege?
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Boroda your version of the story contradicts the reality where the western countries were lightyears above your standard of living.
I can say this from personal experience because I've witnessed it. That you can't deny.
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Originally posted by Boroda
US made plans of attacking USSR since 1946, and they were frightened and surprised when in 1949 they discovered that USSR already has a Bomb. Reconstruction was a matter of survival. Do or die. Just like before WWII.
You are full of watermelon and/or brainwashed. We had 5 years with abosolute A-Bomb premacy.....and we had the means to deliver it almost to anywhere in the world. We were not frightened by your pathetic afforts.
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Originally posted by NUKE
How is it obvious that a planned economy is more efficient? You had an arms race with the "less efficient" American economy, and lost by a HUGE margine.
No other country have built industry from nothing in 15 years. In the beginning USSR didn't have enough specialists or even literate people, and 15 years later we withstood a most horrible war in the history of mankind.
Originally posted by NUKE
Who forced you into an arms race?
Sure, we could simply refuse to take part in it and be burned by humanitarian peace-loving West, this time without any chance to survive.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Boroda your version of the story contradicts the reality where the western countries were lightyears above your standard of living.
I can say this from personal experience because I've witnessed it. That you can't deny.
Can you imagine what could happen if we could build cars instead of tanks?
Please, don't take it personally, but Finland is IMHO a good example of what could happen in Russian Empire without wars. Finland was just a backwards province of the Empire...
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Sure, we could simply refuse to take part in it and be burned by humanitarian peace-loving West, this time without any chance to survive.
Was this before or after signing the pact with the nazi Germany and invading half of europe? :lol
The arms race was always more about defending against your expansive aspirations.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Sure, we could simply refuse to take part in it and be burned by humanitarian peace-loving West, this time without any chance to survive.
But, you did spend all that money on an arms race, and lost...yet you survive. So why did you spend the money? We won, yet you still live on in the manner is which you choose.
Seems like you wasted your money on nothing.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Yes, I am living here, all my family lives here for hundreeds of years, and someone who watched a show on history channel and read a comic book calls me unimformed. True Western approach.
US made plans of attacking USSR since 1946, and they were frightened and surprised when in 1949 they discovered that USSR already has a Bomb. Reconstruction was a matter of survival. Do or die. Just like before WWII.
ROFL
It is this exact attitude that is holding you back
You and your family have been fed the "Party Line" for let's see, 7 or 8 generations now ?
And your exactly right about reconstruction, both before and after WW2.
Toe the party line or you die.
Speak out about injustices and you die.(Or go to the Gulag, then die)
The sooner you figure it out, ( I can't help you, this is something you are going to have to do on your own) the sooner you and your countrymen's lives will get better.
But first, your going to have to learn to see thru the Bull****, which you are obviously not ready to do yet.
Good luck, your gonna need it.
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In Russian Empire there never was any kind of national discrimination.
Boroda, that's classic BS.
In the czar's time it was class descrimination. Then in Soviet times it was a bit more 'national'. The destruction of the 'white russians' via starvation and mass murder in the 20's and 30's under stalin comes to mind. You guys also seemed to have a thing about poles, slav's and the populations of asian descent.
Ukraine Genocide (http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm)
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Originally posted by NUKE
You are full of watermelon and/or brainwashed. We had 5 years with abosolute A-Bomb premacy.....and we had the means to deliver it almost to anywhere in the world. We were not frightened by your pathetic afforts.
Documents say different things.
Americans admitted that even without a Bomb Soviet Army could get control of all Europe, Mediterranian coast and Middle East in no more then 6 months.
Try to find something about Drop Shot plan.
Other plans I remember were called Charioter and Fleetwood.
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Can you imagine what could happen if we could build cars instead of tanks?
Can you imagine what could happen if your country never attacked us, crippled our industry, forced us to pay $4.8 billion (translated to current currency) penalty after the war in addition to freezing a near billion worth of German funds in the economy?
15% of the national budget went to payments for several years - but the payments were made in full.
Your economy rose in 2 years because of leeching other countries you either invaded or tried to invade. That's a fact. And still we kept ahead.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Last war you saw was a Civil war.
Or I missed something and you had your country occupied by foreign invaders who planned to eliminate all your population? Or you had whole cities bombed down to ashes? Or millions starved in siege?
You guys were stupid enough to hook up with Germany, then were to stupid to see Hitler for what he was,then After we saved your butt, along with the rest of Europe, were too stupid to stay in freindly relations with the US.
And the reason I use the word stupid, is because ignorance can be fixed.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, that's classic BS.
In the czar's time it was class descrimination. Then in Soviet times it was a bit more 'national'. The destruction of the 'white russians' via starvation and mass murder in the 20's and 30's under stalin comes to mind. You guys also seemed to have a thing about poles, slav's and the populations of asian descent.
Ukraine Genocide (http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm)
Hang, in Russian Empire there was only religious discrimination in some fields.
In USSR there was national discrimination only for Russians. For minorities there were quotas almost everywhere.
What you mean by "white Russians"? White Guards or Belorussian nation?
And don't tell me about "Ukraine Genocide". I am half-Ukrainian myself. If you count starvation in the Ukraine in 1933 - then why not count starvation at Volga region at the same time? In Russian Empire such starvations happened every 3-4 years, and only Bolsheviks stopped it. There were no mass starvations after 1947.
It's funny to watch you speaking about things that you don't understand.
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Originally posted by Flit
You guys were stupid enough to hook up with Germany, then were to stupid to see Hitler for what he was,then After we saved your butt, along with the rest of Europe, were too stupid to stay in freindly relations with the US.
And the reason I use the word stupid, is because ignorance can be fixed.
MUAHAHAHA!!!!
:rofl
Go read something.
You saved our butt my ass!
US investments in Gemany were protected during WWII, for example: Opel was owned by GMC since 30s, and American bomber crews had special signs on flight maps where they shouldn't drop bombs because American capital was invested in some enterprises.
USSR "hooked up with Germany" only after all attempts to make an alliance with France and UK failed - they simply wanted USSR to fight Hitler alone. Damn evil Russians, they didn't want to die for foreign interests!
As for friendly relations with the US - we did our best, but again we couldn't afford to sponsor enemy regimes installed in Western Europe.
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Ignorance is Blessed
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As usual Boroda will wave facts and data off as "propoganda", but while he relishes in denial, the rest of you can learn from history:
Food shortages after 1947 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3284/is_n4_v12/ai_8274317)
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When I talked to people living in soviet russia they all had a common problem:
They had loads of money, nothing to spend it on. Shops were empty.
Well, if you wanted a Vic20 back in 1987 it cost you a years salary. I was surprised to see them at the shops as importing western hardware was banned back then. So there was SOME use I guess. :o
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'm really wishing that our neighbour giant will be one day a place where I can go to visit cool places and shopping without fear of being bullied by a corrupt police force or the mob.
Been there. Twice. Didn't get robbed. The taxi drivers didn't screw me very much. Police didn't pester me. The locals, once they found out I couldn't speak Russian, left me alone.
Russians were very wary of us foreigners. They didn't have the fake smile so often found in the West, where we try to sell *whatever* to someone. They weren't openly hostile and they weren't unfriendly. Most of the time. Some were absolutely amazing to hang around with. And gender roles differ a lot from what I am used to in Scandinavia. They also must eat something other than what we do here because physically, the young women were more fit than in the west. The men is a totally different story however.
At the DZ, I got a very good look at the social stratification in Russia. I can tell you this: the bridge between the have and the have nots is enormous. There are basically three layers: the ultra rich (who could afford to skydive - even in Russia it costs a lot of money, even for a northern European), the ordinary people who don't have much but get by, and immigrants, who get by on a sh|t on a piece of paper. Same with the elderly.
Whatever misconceptions I and others may harbour about Russia and the Russian people, you will find that there is a great deal of people who, materially and socially, were better off during Communism. Ratting on your neighbor, risking being sent to Gulag and deprivement of basic human rights were just things you had to pay for that.
I will tell you one thing though: Russians, as a people, are incredibly resilient and tough. They may come off as laconic and depressed to some, but they can take an amazing amount of crap and keep going, and they need very little to do so. Underestimating the Russian people is common in the West; from my personal experience, I think Russia will grow again because its potential is incredible.
Just an example: three years ago, the dropzone had a tent. And three big AN-28's and a military Mi-8 helicopter. Two years ago, they had a run down bunkhouse and a manifest as well. A year ago, they added more buildings as well as two packing tents. This year, they had cafeteria, a restaurant of sorts, showers, 20 new bunkhouses, a new aircraft and were paving the runway.
All because one Russian dude had an idea and acted on it.
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boroda sounds like a skit from SNL, is he for real or just yanking your chains?
"white russians"= russians who supported the short lived russian republic that was formed after the fall of the czar and lasted until the commies created the workers paradise.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Just an example: three years ago, the dropzone had a tent. And three big AN-28's and a military Mi-8 helicopter. Two years ago, they had a run down bunkhouse and a manifest as well. A year ago, they added more buildings as well as two packing tents. This year, they had cafeteria, a restaurant of sorts, showers, 20 new bunkhouses, a new aircraft and were paving the runway.
All because one Russian dude had an idea and acted on it.
damm captalist
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SO ... about the rioting in Paris ...
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StSanta the last visit I made there was mid 90's and I know things have changed a lot there. Around those times our local travel agencies cancelled all trips to russia because of the systematic robbing of the tourists.
They were shaken immediately after stepping out of the bus, sometimes with the local police standing next to them.
After the cancellation of trips the local commandant swore to root the crime in the city. Never really happened though - the thugs just moved into sidestreets instead of the open market square.
On our trip to St.Petersburg we got stoped only once by a police whom we promptly bribed and continued on our way. No way you can trust a police that you can buy with $5 value. Even worse would have been getting to an accident. When Boroda speaks of free healthcare he forgets to mention they're STILL using washable cyringes in russian hospitals. HIV anyone?
OTOH I walked 3 hours around the most infamous areas of St.Pete at 3 am and I'm still alive. Can't recall what the area was called, there was channels and a draw bridges that got opened for the night - we got stuck after returning from a nightclub.
At the club I saw people being frisked for guns / drugs and one physical assault where a club security punched a drugdealer in the face. On arrival to the hotel we got a call from 'room service' offering hookers to the room.
All in all I saw deep rooted poverty and above all, crime all over. That was around 1993 - I hope things are better now.
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Originally posted by DJ111
SO ... about the rioting in Paris ...
Still going last I saw. Shooting at the police and all that.
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Originally posted by Flit
Ignorance is Blessed
You are absolutely right.
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Originally posted by john9001
boroda sounds like a skit from SNL, is he for real or just yanking your chains?
"white russians"= russians who supported the short lived russian republic that was formed after the fall of the czar and lasted until the commies created the workers paradise.
Which one of "the short lived russian republic that was formed after the fall of the czar and lasted until the commies created the workers paradise"?
Again, you speak nonsence. Sorry.
First of all - there were no such "republics", at least in large scale. Second: there were "supreme governors" at two different parts of Empire. One of them slaughtered runaway "legislative council" members. Bolsheviks let them go, and they got killed by White Guards. Bolsheviks were 200% more democratic then White Guards.
You use terms that you don't understand.
Half of my family, Cossack officers, fought in White Army. My GrandFather fought in Red Army. You don't understand anything about it.
White Russia = Belorussia = Belarus. It doesn't have anything common with White movement during the Civil War. Russian Emperor was a Czar of Great, Small and White Russia, King of Poland, Geat Prince of Finland etc.
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Originally posted by indy007
Still going last I saw. Shooting at the police and all that.
I wonder if it is all a trap for Sarcazy. Or a way for him to get more popular....
Talked to some French-speaking people here, they all wonder and don't understand if it is a provocation for or against him...
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Originally posted by StSanta
Been there. Twice. Didn't get robbed.
Santa, can I quote your opinion at some other places?
From what You wrote before - I thought that your description of "nevermind, we'll fix it" opened my eyes. It's so Russian that I never notice it myself, but I have this attitude all the time.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
On our trip to St.Petersburg we got stoped only once by a police whom we promptly bribed and continued on our way. No way you can trust a police that you can buy with $5 value.
You, Finns, are probably the only nation that's satisfied with your police.
I know it on my personal experience, believe me, our "gangsters" are much better then our beloved Militia.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Even worse would have been getting to an accident. When Boroda speaks of free healthcare he forgets to mention they're STILL using washable cyringes in russian hospitals. HIV anyone?
Hmm. I was in a hospital in April, spent more then 2 weeks there. No washable cyringes. AFAIK there are no more such things here for about 15-20 years.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
OTOH I walked 3 hours around the most infamous areas of St.Pete at 3 am and I'm still alive. Can't recall what the area was called, there was channels and a draw bridges that got opened for the night - we got stuck after returning from a nightclub.
Most infamous areas in SPb with channels and opening bridges?! LOL!!! :D
I lived in Dachnoye, "Prospekt Veteranov" subway station (it was built in 79 instead of old Dachnoye open-air station). It's 10km to the South from "channels and bridges". It was a "dangerous" place back in late-70s, according to Soviet conditions. I still walk there at night without any problem. A drunk Finn lying on the grass or snow near the local liquer store wasn't a surprise for anyone when I lived there. I moved to Msk in 1982.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
At the club I saw people being frisked for guns / drugs and one physical assault where a club security punched a drugdealer in the face. On arrival to the hotel we got a call from 'room service' offering hookers to the room.
Clubs in Leningrad, er, SPb are really often searched for drugs, it's their local Militia sport :mad: I don't think that punching a drug-dealer in the face is bad.
Phone calls about "do you want a girl?" are a common thing in province even now, in Msk and SPb it's over for 10 years now. Hmm, sorry, last time I got such phone calls in hotels in Rostov-on-Don or Volgograd was in 1999.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
All in all I saw deep rooted poverty and above all, crime all over. That was around 1993 - I hope things are better now.
In 1993 we literally didn't have anything to eat. Thanks to Democracy and Free Market. Now we are doing 100 times better. For example, I am one of the poorest, and right now I enjoy good beer with "omul' " - the tastiest fish from lake Baikal %-] Tomorrow we have a holiday...
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Originally posted by Boroda
I wonder if it is all a trap for Sarcazy. Or a way for him to get more popular....
Talked to some French-speaking people here, they all wonder and don't understand if it is a provocation for or against him...
Honestly when I first heard about it, I assumed it was a football riot.
Maybe it's a trap.. can't say I'm current on french politics though. However most conspiracy ideas (theories are provable) never seem to pan out. From an outsiders prospective, looks like it's mainly a problem with the recent immigration crackdowns and poverty in immigrant communities. The 2 kids that got killed were just a spark. Saw similar happen in L.A. a few years ago.
Makes me wonder what would happen if something like this broke out in Houston. The only thing I know for sure... should violence somehow spread into my suburb... rioters violating my perimeter without knowing the password wouldn't live long enough to regret it.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
When I talked to people living in soviet russia they all had a common problem:
They had loads of money, nothing to spend it on. Shops were empty.
That's one of the things that I thought is impossible for Westerners to understand, like unemployment for Russians.
Anyway - you could buy anything if you had enough money. Money was easy to earn, if you didn't mind some job where you didn't have to sit on your arse from 9 to 6.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Well, if you wanted a Vic20 back in 1987 it cost you a years salary. I was surprised to see them at the shops as importing western hardware was banned back then. So there was SOME use I guess. :o
What is Vic20?
Western hardware was in "commission" shops and sold openly, but for different money. You have to understand that food and other vital stuff was much cheaper in USSR while electronics was much more expensive then in the West. So it goes. We lived in a different way.
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I get a kick out of Borodas posts. His boots on the ground viewpoint I find interesting. His responses are intelligent and articulate despite all the needleing and the many on one that he faces posting on this board. Let's face it, there aren't a whole lot of Russian people here.
We, meaning U.S., people were raised on our own form of propaganda. Schools, media, government all participated in it. I hope both countries get past the past, past the propaganda, and can seperate the wheat from the chaff.
I can remember the bad old days. I was watching TV as a kid when it was interruped by the Civil Defense Network with the "THIS IS NOT A DRILL." message and waiting for a bright light from the direction of Wurtsmith Air Base. It was a spooky 10-15 minutes until they issued an all clear. Turned out some airman had inserted the wrong tape during a normal "For the next sixty seconds there will be a test of the emergency broadcast network..." that used to happen regularly.
I was part of the speedbump for the Fulda Gap to slow the Soviet invasion so somebody somewhere could figure out where they put the bullets. Thankfully that never happened. I guess what I'm trying to say I hold no ill will and some things we think we know was biased from the beginning and we need to keep an open mind. I now return you to your normally scheduled fisticuffs.
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Originally posted by DJ111
SO ... about the rioting in Paris ...
It is spreading.
BTW I don't know what the gun laws are like in France but the Freedom figh errrr rioters are shooting at cops and firemen now.
AULNAY-SOUS-BOIS, France Nov 3, 2005 — Rampaging youths shot at police and firefighters Thursday after burning car dealerships and public buses and hurling rocks at commuter trains, as eight days of riots over poor conditions in Paris-area housing projects spread to 20 towns.
Youths ignored an appeal for calm from President Jacques Chirac, whose government worked feverishly to fend off a political crisis amid criticism that it has ignored problems in neighborhoods heavily populated by first- and second-generation North African and Muslim immigrants.
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Indy007, Houston and Paris, and Houstonians and Parisians, let alone whatever immigrants Houston hosts and Parisian immigrants are worlds apart.
Due retribution is deep and old and well-seated in most rioters of those suburbs. They get a kick out of this, if for no other reason, because every other day is spent doing more or less nothing productive.
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French immigrant are more welfare bum than immigrant, at least the current "young" generation.
I'm myself 2nd generation immigrant and I work 14 hour per day (not for welfare as you can guess :D)
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Heh, more alike than I thought then. I see our hardworking, productive immigrants that learn the language, get naturalized, do their bit for society... they're the minority of the new majority. The rest are busy demanding signs in all languages, free healthcare, welfare checks, and citizens rights.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I have never stood in line to get bread in my entire life. And we never have had food rations of any kind.
Actually, Nuke, we did have rationing during both world wars for many items such as food, gasoline, tires...
But the rationing programs were kept as short as possible.
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Straffo, they'll be something else than immigrants when they integrate.
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Originally posted by Krusher
It is spreading.
BTW I don't know what the gun laws are like in France but the Freedom figh errrr rioters ...
:D :rofl
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Originally posted by DJ111
:D :rofl
After seven nights of riots by youth in predominantly-Muslim sections of Paris, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin (who is a man) announced today that police would pull out of areas where dozens of cars burn each night to “let the freedom-fighting insurgents govern themselves.”
“Just like the United States should not force democracy upon Muslims in Iraq,” said Mr. de Villepin, “we should not impose our own provincial thinking about the so-called ‘rule of law’ on Muslim immigrants who have established a homeland in Paris. We’re withdrawing our occupation forces immediately.”
The Prime Minister, who, when he was Foreign Minister, vigorously opposed the U.S.-led war against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, today enthusiastically endorsed self-determination for “these peaceful religious people in our midst.”
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Originally posted by Krusher
After seven nights of riots by youth in predominantly-Muslim sections of Paris, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin (who is a man) announced today that police would pull out of areas where dozens of cars burn each night to “let the freedom-fighting insurgents govern themselves.”
“Just like the United States should not force democracy upon Muslims in Iraq,” said Mr. de Villepin, “we should not impose our own provincial thinking about the so-called ‘rule of law’ on Muslim immigrants who have established a homeland in Paris. We’re withdrawing our occupation forces immediately.”
The Prime Minister, who, when he was Foreign Minister, vigorously opposed the U.S.-led war against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, today enthusiastically endorsed self-determination for “these peaceful religious people in our midst.”
cave-in
one week and they surrender already.
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Originally posted by Krusher
After seven nights of riots by youth in predominantly-Muslim sections of Paris, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin (who is a man) announced today that police would pull out of areas where dozens of cars burn each night to “let the freedom-fighting insurgents govern themselves.”
“Just like the United States should not force democracy upon Muslims in Iraq,” said Mr. de Villepin, “we should not impose our own provincial thinking about the so-called ‘rule of law’ on Muslim immigrants who have established a homeland in Paris. We’re withdrawing our occupation forces immediately.”
The Prime Minister, who, when he was Foreign Minister, vigorously opposed the U.S.-led war against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, today enthusiastically endorsed self-determination for “these peaceful religious people in our midst.”
Got a link for that ?
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Actually I think they did pretty well...
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Originally posted by Flit
Got a link for that ?
pssssst
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Ah. freaked me out:lol
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Originally posted by Boroda
JFYI: in USSR it was a crime not to have a job.
De-Propagandiasized Translation:
"The guys we had doing quality control on Lada's would have been unemployed in America."
(http://membres.lycos.fr/jdd2003/lada.jpg)
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Since you have no clue whitch one of those 3 is me, keep trolling
:cool:
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paris... russia... what's the difference?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
paris... russia... what's the difference?
lazs
Major diference is, that french gals arent that ugly after 40s.
(sorry boroda ;) )
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does this mean we hafta invade france ....again?
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Are the Boy Scouts busy?...
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Boroda excellent posts! I always considerd my american education equal parts brainwashing/propoganda and its nice to see that even though your several thousand miles away our educations were similar in value...
Could you also suggest a good brand of Vodka please!
TJ
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Better yet, the French should leave the keys to the country on their way out. After all, they'd all fit in Quebec.
- SEAGOON
SEA the only thing the French Quebec people hate more than the English is the French.:)
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Originally posted by Krusher
Maybe they are protesting the French occupation of the West Bank ?
Nov 2, 2005 — PARIS (Reuters) - Violence broke out in Paris suburbs for the seventh night running overnight on Thursday. Youths went on the rampage in a total of nine areas in poor suburbs ringing the French capital to the north and the east, setting alight about 40 cars, two buses, and dustbins, a local authority official said.
Hehe !!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
As usual Boroda will wave facts and data off as "propoganda", but while he relishes in denial, the rest of you can learn from history:
Food shortages after 1947 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3284/is_n4_v12/ai_8274317)
My Russian immigrant friends have a good laugh over Comrade Borodas assertions and manipulations of history.
They say he would make a Propoganda Minister.
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La Haine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Haine
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If anyone is interested in what may have led to this problem they might want to read this article.
Link (http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html)
This can happen in any country given the same circumstances.
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The state, while concerning itself with the details of their housing, their education, their medical care, and the payment of subsidies for them to do nothing, abrogates its responsibility completely in the one area in which the state’s responsibility is absolutely inalienable: law and order. In order to placate, or at least not to inflame, disaffected youth, the ministry of the interior has instructed the police to tread softly (that is to say, virtually not at all, except by occasional raiding parties when inaction is impossible) in the more than 800 zones sensibles—sensitive areas—that surround French cities and that are known collectively as la Zone.
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Originally posted by T0J0
Boroda excellent posts! I always considerd my american education equal parts brainwashing/propoganda and its nice to see that even though your several thousand miles away our educations were similar in value...
Could you also suggest a good brand of Vodka please!
I drink Medal from Moscow Kristall distillery, it's smooth and contains amber acid, 66 rubles for a half-litre in my local shop. For about 90 rubles you can get a half-litre of luxury vodka made on birch-tree buds. ($1=28.5 rubles now) As for exported brands - I think that the best stuff is "black" Crystall or Ukrainian Nemiroff (Nemiroff is slightly different in taste, it's "gorilka", not Russian vodka, and they make exellent honey-and-pepper).
Unfortunately - 90% of what I post here is a result of my own thinking. Back in late-80s we all thought that Soviet propaganda is a set of clumsy lies, but, unfortunately, it becomes more and more obvious that it was almost all true. It is my own opinion, based on what I see from here.
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Back in late-80s we all thought that Soviet propaganda is a set of clumsy lies, but, unfortunately, it becomes more and more obvious that it was almost all true. It is my own opinion, based on what I see from here.
Crikey.
We're doomed.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
We're doomed.
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img/g/o/gotb/sputnik.jpg)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then you'd have to bar christians as well. I don't recall any Muslims bombing abortion clinics in the US...
ack-ack
Alas, you are right, I think there has been .00031 abortion clinics bombed for every 1 million Christians in our country---If you take away the ones Rudolf hit, mebbe .000000000021:D