Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: uberhun on November 05, 2005, 01:58:29 PM
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Does anyone have an account with warbirds? And if so what are the differences between the 2 sims?:noid
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I got it as a box sim a while back. The few things I thought were neat about it have been implemented in AH2. FM doesnt hold a candle to AH and graphics werent as good. Im sure they have a newer version out but I havent heard anything terribly exciting about it.
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The latest version has really nice graphics, but the flight model is kind of gamey, IMO.
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War Birds 2005 has excellent graphics, planes require constant in flight trim ( so-called "Full Realisum" ) and are hard as hell to control . Their is no radar what so ever !!!. There is No Relaxed Realisum Arena in WarBirds 2005. ( No Combat Trim mode Like AcesHigh ). Most of the planes in the New main Arena are AI Drone's . So when you read the WB's website and read where their is 90 to 100+ players flying in the New Main , 85 of them are AI Drones.
Of all the WarBirds versions, War Birds II is the very best game offered . WarBirds II is an Old game, one of the longest running online .
It is based on a game that HT & Pyro developed and worked on . In War Birds II you can fly with a version of Relaxed Realisum auto combat trim .
The planes are fast and the game alot fun . Big draw back with WB II, is that once you up a plane their is no radar . Just a dumb little arrow you can bring up on the map........ showing you the general direction of where the a con might be .....The planes in all War Birds games , lose energy way too fast !!
Both WarBirds II & 2005 uses the rolling plane set and that gameplay-feature FLAT SUCKS !!!
CHECKERS
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ditto on checkers opinion
never enough peeps on
and i dont like there inflight view system either
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I have occasionally dabbles in WB (free weekends and such of course...Id never pay). The game itself was at one time the top of the biz, but that is far in the past, while my actual flight experience is extreemly limited, others I know who are actual puilots like AH 'realism' over WB.
While I wont get into the whole busines shenanigans that occured over there, I will say that the community was really lacking durring the critical 1999-2001 period that saw Aces High take off. While we have grown now into a community with a goodly collection of morons, we still hold that core base of dedicated players that help the newbies with at least the basics. I had on several occasion logged into WB and asked a question or two on open channel, the responses were often completely absent, and sometimes outright rude. I do beleive that these types of 'I'm l33t' attitudes is what doomed WB to a paultry position in the massive online flight sim community. Despite huge marketing campaigns, in store game boxes, and what I saw as preferential treetment by gaming magazines and websites, AH has risen to the top.
For once I think the better game won out over the better marketing.....although I dont think you can discount YOU....as the best marketing AH can get....and now we advertise on Discovery wing....err the MiLiTaRy channel...blech :D
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lol i see WB3 players show up en masse when there's a big big scenario, like bob, kursk, ect ect. They got nice collection of jap planes too
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thats the trick with games that are oriented around historical scenarios, not saying wb3 is but for keeping attendance a pretty advanced mission system has to be developed in order for it to keep people playing regularily and not just friday nights.
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1) Actually, the rollin plane set is, IMHO, a good feature. It teaches ppl to fly non-uber planes for the most part of the war. And above all the MA is populated by the right planes (109F and C.202s against SpitMkV and P40s, or 109G-6 against Spit MkIX ... and so on). It is far from perfect but for sure you wont find an arena always full of La7, Nikis, Ki84 and Spitfires IX.
2) WB's (I and II) scenarios and S3 have always been the best around. Well organized and with the best and appropriate plane set. I miss them and cant really understand why AH has never been as good.
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I wouldn't touch Warbirds with a bargepole if it were the last flight sim on earth, the companies managment are lecherous blood sucking scum and a blight on the sim community. They're sueing people for a bogus patent they claim to have.
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IN Warbirds FM's are beeing reviwed as we speak .
More than 20 versions of 109:s for example are beeing tested in Beta now
Most of them are early 109s.
New FM's beeing tested in Beta :
Bf 109 E-1 A-0
Bf 109 E-3 A-1
Bf 109 E-4 Aa
Bf 109 E-4 N
Bf 109 E-7 NZ
Bf 109 F-1 N
Bf 109 F-2 NZ
Bf 109 F-4 E
Bf 109 F-4 EZ
Bf 109 G- 1 AZ
Bf 109 G- 2 A
Bf 109 G- 5 A Z
Bf 109 G- 6 A
Bf 109 G- 6 AM
Bf 109 G-10 D
Bf 109 G-14 ASM
Bf 109 G-14 ASB
Bf 109 G-14 ASC
Bf 109 K- 4 DB,109
Bf 109 K- 4 DC,109
Bf 109 K-14 L,109
Spitfire M03 Mk I
Spitfire M12 Mk II
Spitfire M20 MkIIc
Spitfire M45 Mk Vb
Spitfire M45 Mk Vc
Spitfire M45M LF Vb
Spitfire M47 HF VI
Spitfire M55M LF Vc
Later varients of the spit ARE in the offing.
AH has better gameplay !
WB has better scenarios !
Remember pyro and HT made WB.
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Gatt
Not only do I strongly disagree, but I take exception to your claims.
Rolling plane set sucks IMO, but even more so apparently it sucks in HT's opinion.
Nuff said on that one.
Warbirds Scenarios & S3 being the best around?
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I've flown in several warbirds scenarios over the years. They were in my opinion no better organised, setup and run than what the AH CM crew puts out.
As to the S3's, well I treid for 3 years to get into that so I could try one.
Never happened, our squad apparently was not "elite" enough.
Fri & Sun squad ops have imo taken the s3 idea & done it one better.
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Ghost,
as far as the rollin plane set is concerned ... well, I say again: it is my humble opinion. BTW, one thing is a wrong RPS (many times the set was wrong in WB), one thing is to prefer a fantasy arena always full of Typh, La, Spits, Ki and Niks.
As far as scenarios are concerned, with all respect for AH scenario designers and managers, I still miss those Scenario Lite I played in WB. And with me my squad members, many of them "ex-warbirders".
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Originally posted by gatt
1) Actually, the rollin plane set is, IMHO, a good feature. It teaches ppl to fly non-uber planes for the most part of the war. And above all the MA is populated by the right planes (109F and C.202s against SpitMkV and P40s, or 109G-6 against Spit MkIX ... and so on). It is far from perfect but for sure you wont find an arena always full of La7, Nikis, Ki84 and Spitfires IX.
I agree with gatt on this one.
I was on WB2 for years, then WB3 for a short time before seeing the light & moving to AH. Generally AH is superior, but I used to enjoy rolling plane set for above reasons.
I guess it's down to personal preference & there's no right or wrong.
Just out of interest, what is it about rolling set you fellers dislike so much?
Regards
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Originally posted by Whisky58
Just out of interest, what is it about rolling set you fellers dislike so much?
Regards
If you're a P-40 fan, RPS's are great.
DmdMax
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Ah yes, if you are an La-7 fan, RPS is not great at all.
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The main difference is the fact that WB (not warbirds) is a thieving POS who could'nt run a game company to save his own bellybutton without ripping someone off. Therefore, I won't even consider downloading any game that might end up putting one penny in his pocket. :aok
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Someone post some pics of the newest WB, don't think I have even heard of it. :(
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Originally posted by save
IN Warbirds FM's are beeing reviwed as we speak .
More than 20 versions of 109:s for example are beeing tested in Beta now
Most of them are early 109s.
New FM's beeing tested in Beta :
....
Spitfire M20 MkIIc
....
There was no such thing as a Spitfire Mk IIc. There was a Spitfire Mk IIb, but it had such horrible jamming issues that it really shouldn't be considered a service aircraft, more a service test of a prototype.
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Was a WarBirder back in WB2 days, was a member of the "Volunteers" (non-historical squad in the Historical Arena) and ran Grupul 7 Vanatoare for a short while in the MA and scenarios (about 6 months, up til I left). I left when WarBirds III came out, I hated it in beta and didn't see it getting any better. Left even though I had been offered a CM slot. I thought it was getting THAT bad.
Personally, I absolutely loved the Rolling Planeset, its one of the things I miss the most. Everytime the set moved up, you would haver a new "uberplane" (or at least uber compared to what was out previously), and for those of us who refused to fly uber rides, it was a good challenge. For example, the first day or two with the SpitV, 109F, and 190A, those planes would rule the sky- until a day or two later, when the plane that was put into service to counter them IRL became available, then the balance would shift back. As the "war" progressed, increasingly the balance would swing toward the Allies as planes like the Pony came out (last few days, that was all you saw). Personally I flew 109s almost exclusively, and once the G6 came out, that was all you would see me in. :)
The other thing I really miss about them is that in the WWII arena, it was Axis vs Allies. You didn't have these silly SpitV vs PonyD vs La7 fights, and you also didn't have the somewhat bizarre (at least in my opinion) situation of of being and buff-busting, B-24 and Lanc killing machine... in a P-38. Early on, the Axis would have a pretty good set, with the Ju88 and Stuka (which is actually a pretty effective plane in an all 1940 arena), Val, Betty and Kate. Then once the American Heavies started to come on, the balance swung to them and never came back- much like IRL. I miss the historical matchups something fierce, but I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that we'll never have them.
And I have to say, if one of your major gripes about a WWII flight sim is that your plane doesn't have in flight radar, then you've been flying AH way too long. ;)
But I have to say, for the major things I miss about WB- and the things I don't like about AH- I wouldn't go back. It used to ba, way back when, that I tried AH and went right back to WB without a second thought. Then it was a tossup between the two. Now AH wins hands down. for all its (IMO) shortcomings, its still the best package out there.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
It is based on a game that HT & Pyro developed and worked on .
...And Natedog, Sudz, Ronni & Superfly.
Why does everyone always leave the rest of us out when talking about WB/DOA/etc.? :cry
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
...And Natedog, Sudz, Ronni & Superfly.
Why does everyone always leave the rest of us out when talking about WB/DOA/etc.? :cry
who are you and why are you here?
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Ah yes, if you are an La-7 fan, RPS is not great at all.
AKA if you're a Rook, RPS's aren't fun at all.
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
...And Natedog, Sudz, Ronni & Superfly.
Why does everyone always leave the rest of us out when talking about WB/DOA/etc.? :cry
If I were you I would be more concerned by the incredible number of "Superfly" who are shot down offline each day :D
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
AKA if you're a Rook, RPS's aren't fun at all.
You evil.
SUPERFLY! The Macchi's dad :) (IIRC)
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
...And Natedog, Sudz, Ronni & Superfly.
Why does everyone always leave the rest of us out when talking about WB/DOA/etc.? :cry
Why ? 1st off, Cuz, I didn't know ........ "Sorry "...
Simple as that ....
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by Whisky58
Just out of interest, what is it about rolling set you fellers dislike so much?
Regards [/B]
What I did not like about RPS ( and one of 3 prime reasons I quit WarBirds )
I did not like being forced to play a game with flying slugs for half a month, not having any choice, being stuck with dumb slow fighters, making for dumb & slow game play .
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
What I did not like about RPS ( and one of 3 prime reasons I quit WarBirds )
I did not like being forced to play a game with flying slugs for half a month, not having any choice, being stuck with dumb slow fighters, making for dumb & slow game play .
CHECKERS
Uhm, "fast and slow", "good turner", "good climber" ... are relative terms in a dogfight, not absolute features. I mean, (and sorry for my english) a C.202 is indeed a slow fighter, but it is quite faster than a Hurricane MkI. Same thing is valid for a Spitfire MkIa and a C.202 as far as turning ability is concerned.
Or you measure speed only looking at the gauges and the trees flying at 100ft?
Its strange how many players feel like fishes out of the water without their late war monsters. Many of those players dont like 1940-43 scenarios for the same reasons. And those scenarios are the most interesting becouse they are *balanced*. But they require skills. At least on the allied side.
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Watch a fight between a well flown 109E and a Spit I, or between an A6M2 and P-40B, etc. Anything but slow and dumb. More like a knife fight in an airline bathroom.
You have to actually fight the guy, can't just say "well, hes behind me, time to hit the WEP and zoom away at 450mph."
Some of the best fights I had in WB were in the first few days of the tour when a flight of us in 109Es would escort some Stukas or Ju88s to take out a field, and be met by a flight of Spit Is and Hurri Is. Long, brutal fight, and extremely satisfying to survive it.
And if you say that the P-40 against the Zero wasn't a good fight, you never flew with Tarzan or Dracer. :eek:
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Yup. WarBirds hit its finest times, when it defaulted the main arena into WW2 Rolling Plane Set, with Axis vs. Allied rides, planes changing as the war progressed. Was it six weeks or so, when you got from 1939 setting into 1945. There were several variations of the RPS system, with one attempt with "generations", another with steady RPS feeding new types to the fight somewhat simulating the WW2 progression. It was and IS absolute best when you get those planes that are somewhat similar to each other, or well not similar but more or less equal, from same timespan.
It is definitely still worst thing at AH to have this fantasy arena that gives all the monster planes to anybody at any moment, but that is AH's choise. It was the way of Air Warrior too and WarBirds at the old times, and unfortunately it is the way of WarBirds 2005 (WB3) these days as well. It is easiest to cater for the shoot'em'crowd who cannot fly but their single best performing mount, never to enjoy the challenges of other planes. Unfortunately, flying a Hurricane I against hordes of La-7s and P-51s and Doras is extremerely hard, though fun.
And there is nothing like the EMC scenario series in the sim history. S3s, bah. EMCs ruled the historical scenarios. Greatest fun ever, back then. EMCs and S3s are still running, though I don't know how well.
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CT is a rolling planeset / historical matchup arena and it's always empty or close to it. Why don't all you guys fly there all the time???
Flew WB a few years ago for a couple of months. Was not impressed.
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Thank you all for your responses.
It sounds like "TOD" will meet the criterias that are currently lacking in AHII
and emmulate the ones that were existent in warbirdsII.:aok
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Originally posted by gatt
Its strange how many players feel like fishes out of the water without their late war monsters. Many of those players dont like 1940-43 scenarios for the same reasons. And those scenarios are the most interesting becouse they are *balanced*. But they require skills. At least on the allied side.
Do you honestly believe that if I beat you in a late war ride that I cant hand you your bellybutton in an early war ride? What makes you think you have real "skills" because you fly 1940-43 rides? Why does it take less "skill" to fly Axis than Allied? Let me put my boots on before you answer.
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Well looks like your question was answered, and then some. :)
I just want to say how much respect I have for the event CM’s over in WB’s. When I was running events over here I emulated much of what they did. Certainly there are some significant differences between the S3’s and our Squad Operations, but they, (IMHO) are differences that cater to the community. I loved the Scenario Lites they put on, but the Snapshots we have here are quite similar.
I personally enjoyed the rolling plane set they had in WB, but when it comes to service WB can’t hold a candle to Aces High. Ultimately it is the service and my squad that has kept me here with Aces High. Can you just pick up the phone and call someone in WB (or in WWIIOL for that matter) and expect immediate service/help? No, but in Aces High you can.
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For one thing, CT is usually an arena-specific RPS, while the WWII arena was worldwide. If the plane you want is from the right time frame, but wrong theater, you're stuck.
Second, CT is usually just a theater-specific furball. Fun for a while, but it gets old.
Third, its unfortunately always the same 10-15 guys in there, and even if you like them, it gets boring killing and being killed by the same people over and over again. If theres someone in there you don't like to fly with/against, it gets downright miserable in a hurry. Can't just go to a different part of the map like you can in the MA.
I'll pop in there a few times a week, but usually get bored and leave within an hour.
The WB HA was much the same way, but most of the guys I liked to fly with were in there, so it was much more bearable for me.
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It sounds like "TOD" will meet the criterias that are currently lacking in AHII
Don't hold your breath. Two and a half years ago, I thought that the gameplay in the AH main arena was getting a bit stale, and I was tired of waiting (over a year) for the TOD to come in AH, so I opened a Warbirds account (snofox) and it was my premier flight sim for two years. I just loved the rolling plane set in the WW2 arena. My experiences there are the same as treize.
What killed WB for me was the invention of the too-silly-for-words Main Arena in WB. Most of the "players" are drones, and in some parts of the map there are air starts (you can kill a guy and have him respawn above you). That devasted the player base in the WW2 Arena, which iEN has neglected badly. So, even though I still have a WB account, and belong to a squadron, I don't play there much anymore.
No one does an arcade style arena better than Aces High, and the technical excellence and service in Aces High is superb. So, I am back in AH almost full time, anxiously awaiting the TOD arena. I hear it's coming in two weeks. :O
eh
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Originally posted by Slash27
Do you honestly believe that if I beat you in a late war ride that I cant hand you your bellybutton in an early war ride? What makes you think you have real "skills" because you fly 1940-43 rides? Why does it take less "skill" to fly Axis than Allied? Let me put my boots on before you answer.
The truth is that many players (*) dont like the RPS becouse they dont like to ride 1940-43 allied planes (mainly). This was the main reason in WB I and II. And probably from a commercial point of view, i.e. to attract more casual players, is better to have a MA hangar always full of late war monsters. This means no RPS, more efforts in modelling 1944-45 planes, less early-mid war scenarios and, *IMO*, a less interesting Main.
(*) Dont put your boots on, at least if you are not one of them. And if you are, better to wear a pink pijama ;)
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Well, rereading my first post it comes across a bit snippy so sorry about that. Cutting my teeth on this game in the hey day of the CT makes me a big fan of early to mid war rides. I hope ToD will provide that atmosphere again. Until then Ill enjoy the occasional good night in the CT and the fine work done by our CM Staffers in the SEA. Thats some of the best fun in this game.
I did fly a La7 tonight however, guess I have too break out the pink pj's:(
:D
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Slash ;)
frankly, I've been a little ass*ole talking about allied planes and skills in that way. Lets say, provocative. Anyway, judging from your excellent stats I'm happy you arent going to wear your boots and chase me ;)
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I came from Warbirds II when Aces High Beta started.
at the time warbirds II was still more attractive but was rediculously expensive with its pay per hour/minute cell phone ripoff billing mantra. ah was free and I was a poor college kid and AH was new and fun.
warbirds went downhill in stagnation and horrible graphics of wbIII it just was horrible colors and graphics and never really improved despite being technologically more advanced than wbII. they even followed AH's lead of monthly subsribtions but with variable rates and strange fees and charges. unfortunately warbirds is also managed by a businessman with a reputation for corruption and fraud which makes giving them your credit card numbers a very disconcerting proposition.
AH had a mass influx in its player base due to lowered subscribtion rates from 30 bucks to 15 bucks and also when Air Warrior was disolved by the soul crushing buracracy known as EA Games most AW players chose AH over WB and it seems many that chose WB ended up at AH anyway.
what is really impressive about HTC is they don't have to use double doors to get there heads inside their office :) sure they have ego's but so does everyone else. They however are able to stay relatively grounded and in tune with the community that has formed around Aces High.
the level of interaction between this team and its customers leaves all other games in the dust. name one other game company that would "waste" its time listening to what players want or don't want or want changed or want changed back. naturally many ideas and gripes fielded by players are bad ideas some are good though. the fact that this team has more online experience than anyone else seems to make them able to filter through it.
HTC has been unprecidented in its support for player contributions to the game. first with the players that organize scenarios and events, then the Terrain Team that makes all the maps for the scenarios and more recently with AHII HTC has become a new alternative to those who enjoy building plastic models with its incoorporation of player made skins into the game.
I haven't built a plastic model since AH started accepting player skins. I think I am not the only one in the skinning community who has found the level of enjoyment and realism offered by making skins for the whole community is much more rewarding than its plastic counterparts could ever be.
well I am rambling on and reminiscing about what I have seen over the years of following Aces high...
bottom line is:
if you want to find the best online WW2 flight sim this is it. and if you think you can contribute somthing to it that you think will improve the game for yourself and others...
HTC will let you step up to the plate and take a swing at it.