Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Widewing on November 06, 2005, 10:40:25 PM
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The other night a new player was complaining that he could not get an F4U off of a carrier fully loaded. Invariably, he would wallow into the sea after coming off the flight deck.
Someone suggested he crack the throttle and back up on the flight deck to increase his takeoff run. This seems to be standard practice in the MA.
However, you do not need to backup.
All you have to do is lower the flaps fully and use WEP on the takeoff. When I suggest he use full flaps, several knuckleheads argued that it would not work... Well, to quote Gump, "stupid is as stupid does".
Offline I ran film of me taking off in the F4U-1C, F4U-1D, F6F-5 and TBM-3. All aircraft had the maximum bomb and rocket load AND full fuel tanks. With full flaps, getting airborne without losing any altitude is easy. You can use auto-takeoff or manual takeoff.
I edited the film down to just the F4U-1D. This is adequate to demonstrate a full-flap takeoff. A link to the film can be found below.
Anyone can find out for themselves by simply going offline and selecting a fully loaded F4U-1D. Dump full flaps, power up and engage WEP. Once airborne, raise the gear and begin pulling up the flaps, maintaining level flight until you see 140 mph. Then begin a gradual climb as you continue to bring up the flaps. No drama, no sweating, as easy as easy gets. Just remember, those flaps are there for a reason, use them.
Backing up wastes time. It also leaves you vulnerable by remaining on the flight deck longer than needed.
Click here to download film (http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/CVTO_1.zip)
My regards,
Widewing
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whoever disagreed with you obviously doesnt understand why flaps are even on an aircraft.
another tip that can help is to only lower the flaps half way, hit full power and start lowering them to full as you reach the end of the deck. doesnt make much difference, but you will gain a fraction more speed initially with only flaps down half.
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I just wep it and drop 2 notches of flap at the very end.
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Originally posted by YUCCA
I just wep it and drop 2 notches of flap at the very end.
HEHE try uping a lanc like that u gota do more than that.
Nice film wide...
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I rarely take off heavy off a CV. But if i do, I go WEP and a notch of flaps, full flaps towards the end of the deck. Gear up ASAP. After leaving the deck, i try to stay level till i have accellerated some, usually i follow the slight turn to the left, created by torque.
It starts getting really mean when someone turns the CV...
Thanks for the film WideWing. Its a good show of takeoff, as well as landing.
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i up lancs with no flap at 50% fuel fine.
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dont lancs catch wing tips on the tower and guns on an aircraft carrier anyways????
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i can land and take off in fully loaded lancs (14 x 1000lb's, and 100% fuel)
you do need full flaps and to turn it around and get a full run up (lanc wont back up, so you need to use the engines rudders and brakes to get back. and wasp, the lancs will hit their wingtips if you do not take off manually. you need to select engine 4, go full power with rudder and brakes, and get yourself out onto the port side of the deck. then just roll it (as long as you are reasonably light)
now the hard carrier landings start to come with landing head on at the cv (cv headed towards you). for the carrier borne planes with hooks its easy, but for things linke lancs, b24's its a little more difficult. the fast flying fighters are the hardest (mustangs, 190's, which can be done using a little rudder with the brakes to alter your velocity). i did try it once in a 262, but the wheel brakes have such a small effect, you end up flying off the back (sometimes you can actually go back to full power and keep flying, lol)
if anyone needs help landing on cv's i'd be more than happy to help, i always have lots of fun doing it
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leave gear up, you can stop on a dime :)
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key is to not fall off the deck as well... fly off the deck ... you should be pulling nose up by the end of the carrier....
Get that nose up. Flaps help alot .. but i'm like yucca... few notches of flaps as I hit end of deck nose up .... almost thoughtless
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Originally posted by MajWoody
leave gear up, you can stop on a dime :)
yes, if i want to land, but i usually rearm. lol, i tried doing lancs 100% fuel and full payload earlier in the ta, take off is difficult, but i do it 1/3 times, and i have landed it head on once or twice properly, but its very easy if you hit something, its very hard to keep the plane intact landing, because you either hit the wing on that dang command deck with all the guns (our cv is slightly off scale if its supposed to be an essex class, it should be a tad bigger. you either hit a wing like i said, or you go too far to the right on approach and you buckle the gear when the wheels run over the side, so you slide on your belly.
its a ton-o-fun tho. if you're bored, just jump in the ta anytime and mess about with the cv's. c13 has all planes enabled if you'd like to practise cv landings/takeoffs in non navy planes
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has anyone ever tryed flying at the same speed as the CV going the same direction, above the deck and just dropping on to the deck, applying brakes straight away, just a thought, i guess it could work
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:huh
Er... uh... maybe you lack some understanding of the basic principles of flight....
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ok why would it not work explain plz if u know so much lol
sorry im not a master of CV flyin dude!!
was only asking
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Originally posted by Wasp
has anyone ever tryed flying at the same speed as the CV going the same direction, above the deck and just dropping on to the deck, applying brakes straight away, just a thought, i guess it could work
I think you can do that in a TBM.
Maybe D3A. Try full flaps and full dive brakes/flaps.
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yeah thought it could be done thanks for backing me up dude :)
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Rofl, wasp, you're right, I was a bit rude... I'm not a pilot or an engineer, too, I just read a couple of things: anyway, if I correctly interpreted what you wrote:
1) CV speed are too low for a plane to fly at...
2) assuming that you can fly straight and level at that speed, you would have some difference in height with the deck, unless you get to fly over the deck exactly with your gear at some centimeters (oops! inches :D) above it... and, once you're basically "hovering" on the deck, just like a helicopter... the only way to "drop" the plane on the deck would be to stall it and make it fall on the deck... not advisable IMO... (or, of course, to dive on the deck, not advisable, too)
I could have said just a bunch of senseless things, above, if so, please, someone correct me! :D
EDIT: Ooops, missed Schatzi's reply... well, I don't think it would work... at least, in real life it shouldn't... maybe only with a plane with slow stall speed and a lot of ahead wind...
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dont worry about it thanks for look up the stuff dude it does seem to make sense i just tryed it with a sea fire very very hard managed to hit the deck but took off my gear i was at nearly the right speed and flaps did help, probably more trouble than its worth lol maybe just practice conventional way:aok
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Lol, it must have been a high tension scene! :) Yep, better to practice the conventional way, after a while, it's not so hard. ;)
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actually, Gian, the AH CVs are way too fast for their own good. 43 mph IIRC.
While sustained level flight (without any descent) is impossible at that speed, you can still 'helicopter' or float at that speed.
Wasp, while i wouldnt recommend that as a standard landing procedure, i firmly believe its good to learn to fly your plane on the edge of its envelope. That includes *low* speed handling....
When i want to familiarize myself with a new plane, i usually go to TA and do some 'stunts'. Fly through any hangar available in any position possible. Snap stall it around. Deliberatly flatspin.... land on CV.....
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Originally posted by Wasp
has anyone ever tryed flying at the same speed as the CV going the same direction, above the deck and just dropping on to the deck, applying brakes straight away, just a thought, i guess it could work
It can easily be done in a "Val" with full flaps ... I have landed on the cruiser doing this.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
It can easily be done in a "Val" with full flaps ... I have landed on the cruiser doing this.
You can land a B5n on a Destroyer... Aft gun mount usually eats the prop though..
My regards,
Widewing
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with 19mph of headwind you can hover a val right above the CV. maybe with less wind even.
and you can land it on the control tower, if you are steady enough :)
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/film117.ahf
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There is a film some where on the BBS where this guy lands a 262 and an Ar234 on the CV
its hard enough landing a 234 on an airfield let a lone a carrier but this guy (sorry mate cant remember you name) made the 234 and 262 CV landing look like child play
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Landed once a F4Ud on the cruiser and got a dicth :cry :cry
And worst the film is porked !
It show 200 yard behind the cruiser (but landed :))
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<-- I did some 'proof of concept' films on 262 and 234 cv landings. Just right click and save, then open in film viewer.
262 film >> (http://tech-rep.org/ah/262.ahf)
234 film >> (http://tech-rep.org/ah/234.ahf)
Note: You can't see the view setup I have for the 'Forward View,' where I'm looking down the left side of fuselage for alignment with the 262 unless you use the left arrow and Page Up keys.