Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Seagoon on November 08, 2005, 11:30:05 AM
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Hi all,
I had debated posting this in the "Betting Pool" thread, but opted against it as the idea of endorsing wagering related to misery rubs me the wrong way. Over the years I've learned the most unsatisfying and hollow phrase in the English language when applied to national or personal catastrophes is "I told you so."
Anywho, at present the brighter journalists and commentators are trying to figure out whether what is going on in France is in fact simply, an intifada, Arabic for uprising or insurrection, part of the wider Jihad, or a combination of both. Regardless, what is becoming readily apparent is that the current insurgency in France was inevitable for a number of reasons, and that this is merely the open stages of a tempest that is not going to go away any time soon. For instance, very few news outlets have bothered to report that many Muslim areas of France had become essentially unpoliced and uncontrolled by the central government before the current insurgency, and that since the beginning of 2005 there were over 9000 cases of French police cars being stoned for entering Muslim areas.
Two of the journalists I read on this subject who have a lot of insight into the current situation in the Eurabian community are Amir Taheri, an Iranian expat journalist who writes for British and French papers, and Robert Spencer who has been chronicling the revival of Islamic militancy for many years. Here is an article by Taheri that was carried by the NYP along with an article by Spencer, that I hope will shed a little more light on the Religio/Social roots of the current conflict:
WHY PARIS IS BURNING
By AMIR TAHERI Fri Nov 4, 6:00 AM ET
AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start — and the pattern is always the same.
ADVERTISEMENT
Bands of youths in balaclavas start by setting fire to parked cars, break shop windows with baseball bats, wreck public telephones and ransack cinemas, libraries and schools. When the police arrive on the scene, the rioters attack them with stones, knives and baseball bats.
The police respond by firing tear-gas grenades and, on occasions, blank shots in the air. Sometimes the youths fire back — with real bullets.
These scenes are not from the
West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the intifada that at the time of writing appears beyond control.
The troubles first began in Clichy-sous-Bois, an underprivileged suburb east of Paris, a week ago. France's bombastic interior minister, Nicholas Sarkozy, responded by sending over 400 heavily armed policemen to "impose the laws of the republic," and promised to crush "the louts and hooligans" within the day. Within a few days, however, it had dawned on anyone who wanted to know that this was no "outburst by criminal elements" that could be handled with a mixture of braggadocio and batons.
By Monday, everyone in Paris was speaking of "an unprecedented crisis." Both Sarkozy and his boss, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, had to cancel foreign trips to deal with the riots.
How did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week, a group of young boys in Clichy engaged in one of their favorite sports: stealing parts of parked cars.
Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened, as the police have not been present in that suburb for years.
The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody, telephoned the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her building. The police were thus obliged to do something — which meant entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them.
Once the police arrived on the scene, the youths — who had been reigning over Clichy pretty unmolested for years — got really angry. A brief chase took place in the street, and two of the youths, who were not actually chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned-off area housing a power pylon. Both were electrocuted.
Once news of their deaths was out, Clichy was all up in arms.
With cries of "God is great," bands of youths armed with whatever they could get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee.
The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the police from French territory. So they hit back — sending in Special Forces, known as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.
Within hours, the original cause of the incidents was forgotten and the issue jelled around a demand by the representatives of the rioters that the French police leave the "occupied territories." By midweek, the riots had spread to three of the provinces neighboring Paris, with a population of 5.5 million.
But who lives in the affected areas? In Clichy itself, more than 80 percent of the inhabitants are Muslim immigrants or their children, mostly from Arab and black Africa. In other affected towns, the Muslim immigrant community accounts for 30 percent to 60 percent of the population. But these are not the only figures that matter. Average unemployment in the affected areas is estimated at around 30 percent and, when it comes to young would-be workers, reaches 60 percent.
In these suburban towns, built in the 1950s in imitation of the Soviet social housing of the Stalinist era, people live in crammed conditions, sometimes several generations in a tiny apartment, and see "real French life" only on television.
The French used to flatter themselves for the success of their policy of assimilation, which was supposed to turn immigrants from any background into "proper Frenchmen" within a generation at most.
That policy worked as long as immigrants came to France in drips and drops and thus could merge into a much larger mainstream. Assimilation, however, cannot work when in most schools in the affected areas, fewer than 20 percent of the pupils are native French speakers.
France has also lost another powerful mechanism for assimilation: the obligatory military service abolished in the 1990s.
As the number of immigrants and their descendants increases in a particular locality, more and more of its native French inhabitants leave for "calmer places," thus making assimilation still more difficult.
In some areas, it is possible for an immigrant or his descendants to spend a whole life without ever encountering the need to speak French, let alone familiarize himself with any aspect of the famous French culture.
The result is often alienation. And that, in turn, gives radical Islamists an opportunity to propagate their message of religious and cultural apartheid.
Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.
In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In these areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab" while most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.
The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling alcohol and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local administration.
A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of Bondy, Aulnay-sous-Bois and Bobigny heard a single overarching message: The French authorities should keep out.
"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the local "emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood, to negotiate an end to the hostilities.
President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of
Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community.
That illusion has now been shattered — and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb."
It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.
So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an adviser to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in which Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a new cultural synthesis.
The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the important issue of political power. Who will rule this new Andalusia: Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?
Suddenly, French politics has become worth watching again, even though for the wrong reasons.
Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly "Politique internationale," is a member of Benador Associates.
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Also, in the following link, Robert Spencer tackles the question, "Is this part of a Jihad in Europe?"
Jihad in Europe (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008897.php#more)
- SEAGOON
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Brilliant article. Do you think France could deteriorate into another Bosnia?
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See Rule #2
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Very interesting read.
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Completly cretin and distorted at best it's incompetence at worst it's pure propaganda.
PS: Benador Associates is as fair as balanced as Fox news.
Look at this article from dated 03 Jan 2005
Saint-Sylvestre Trois cent trente-trois voitures brûlées
La France, ses bons vins, ses fromages... et ses voitures incendiées la nuit du réveillon. Avec plus de 330 véhicules carbonisés, la Saint-Sylvestre 2004 n’a malheureusement pas failli à la tradition. Ce bilan, souligne le ministère de l’Intérieur, « témoigne d’une stabilité des phénomènes de violence urbaine » puisque 324 véhicules avaient été incendiés en 2003 et 379 en 2002. La France est le seul pays d’Europe à connaître un tel phénomène, selon une enquête des bureaux de l’AFP à travers le continent.
Dans la quasi-totalité des cas, ces incendies volontaires se sont déroulés dans des quartiers dits « difficiles », comme dans les cités de Sevran, Clichy-sous-Bois, Aulnay et La Courneuve en Seine-Saint-Denis. Ce département figure d’ailleurs en tête des départements d’Île-de-France avec 75 voitures brûlées (47 il y a un an).
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See Rule #5
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Yet another expert :rolleyes:
Perhaps one day you will learn to not to post when you know nothing about the subject ?
Btw SEAGOON I made some research and phone call (I'm not omniscient) about Amir Taheri etc ...
Do your really think that if I make a post about the USA using document coming from here http://www.nsm88.com/
it will be credible ?
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Tikky, what do you mean "OR"?
translation of the above quote:
France, its good wines, its cheeses... and its cars torched the night before christmas. With more than 330 carbonised vehicles, Saint-Sylvestre 2004 infortunately hasn't failed tradition. This tally, underlines the Interior ministry, "testifies of a stability of urban violence phenomenae" since 324 vehicles had been torched in 2003 and 379 in 2002. France is the only country in Europe to experience such a phenomenon, according to an inquiry by the AFP offices across the continent.
In the quasi-totality of the cases, these voluntary fires took place in neighbourhoods called "difficult", as in the (projects) of Sevran, Clichy-sous-Bois, Aulnay and La Courneuve in Seine-Saint-Denis. This department, moreover, figures at the top of the (Paris&surroundings) departments with 75 cars burned (47 a year ago).
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Straffo,
If you want to prove a point or at least lend some credence to a point by posting an article, make sure it's in english or just don't bother.
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Originally posted by straffo
Completly cretin and distorted at best it's incompetence at worst it's pure propaganda.
PS: Benador Associates is as fair as balanced as Fox news.
Look at this article from dated 03 Jan 2005
You probably have never even watched Fox news, just blindly babble what you read others have said.
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This kind of thing might need to dealt with by employing an "iron fist" mentality.
Make it too painful, figuratively and litterally to riot, to destory, to rampage, and maybe these clowns will think twice. Use overwhelming amounts of force, including police and military if necessary.
The wrong approach in the long term would be to coddle, to appease and reward this type of behavior. Sadly, with the lack of spine so typical in most politicians, that is probably exactly what will happen.
But, it's France, so I am not going to lose any sleep over a country that supported Saddam Hussein, that sold its national soul for a few pieces of gold and refused support to the USA, a country that bailed them out twice from foreign domination.
dago
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oh, snap!
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Quick, read before the attack of the evil moderators. :D
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soooooooooo, how many rifles were dropped? have the french capitulated yet?
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When it is french fighting french who do they surrender too? Do they like have to rent a German for a day?:D
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
When it is french fighting french who do they surrender too? Do they like have to rent a German for a day?:D
lol
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This thread is going to end up disappearing too...
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Boy Seagoon I'm impressed with you taking the high road and all. Cos yeah, ya know, wagering on retarded press coverage is worse than posting retarded press coverage.
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Originally posted by Dago
You probably have never even watched Fox news, just blindly babble what you read others have said.
I have watched it.
And your point is ?
Originally posted by Maverick
Straffo,
If you want to prove a point or at least lend some credence to a point by posting an article, make sure it's in english or just don't bother.
Yawn.
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See Rule #4, #5
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See Rule #5
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beet you're starting to type like Zulu6.. curate ipsum.
BGB are you trying to get this thread closed too?
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Lots of inaccurracies (to put it mildly) in your article, Seagoon:
one example:
CRS, special forces? LOL! CRS are 'compagnies republicaines de sécurité', some kind of toned down police force assigned to crowd control (protest marches, big soccer events...). They have less judicial powers than normal police and certainly aren't too tough about recruitment and training.
To see the young migrants in the cited cities as 'muslim integrists' is plain wrong: when they don't cause havoc at night, they steal, deal and use drugs, and commit group rapes. I'm no fan of the coran, but I'm sure that this kind of conduct isn't teached by the prophet!
In a lot of ways, they look and act like the gangs you have in your big cities. Religion isn't the motive, but I agree that the fact that they live in some kind of isolated culture without mixing with the rest of the society is the main cause of the troubles.
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by beet1e
See Rule #4
After how France Constantly tells America how it's lack of culture and compassion will be it's undoing? After France tells America how it's non-flexible stance will be it's undoing? After America gave so many of it's young people to restore France only to be told we have no idea about world politics? After France stood by the muslims that now burn their cars homes and businesses?
(oh that's right, they're not all Muslims...)
I don't see any misunderstanding here.
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I think he meant their hamhandedness.
e.g. in protests you'll hear in chorus "CRS - SS!"
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See Rule #4
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I hate seeing so many people gloating when the French are in trouble. Too many of my country certainly do and I despise them for that.
At least one thing is clear - this is not a racial or a religious or a national dispute, it is a CULTURAL dispute. I never understood immigrants who leave their ****ty coutries only to come to a new coutry and live in a miny version of the coutry they just left. The problem is not a few french with dark skins or french who pray to a different god, it's people who live in france who are not french at all nor wish to be. France is just the current case, but it's generaly true to every western country.
France is perhaps the nation most proud of its culture, and not without good reason. This is one culture I'd hate to see ran over by the american culturization. It's not that I have something against america, quite the opposite, but I'd hate it if everything is to be america.
I'd also hate to see it destroyed from within and become another "multi-cultural" nation - meaning, the same as all other "multi-cultural" nations.
The irony of it is that this is a form of "reverse colonialization". The french had to widthraw from Algire and evacuated the french population. Today, immigrants from those coutries settle in France and "colonize" it in the cultural sense.
Bozon
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Originally posted by beet1e
...and was any of that posted on this board? Erm... don't think so. How many of the ameritards posting here ^ gave their young people to restore France? Erm... well none, actually.
Like I said - quid pro quo...
no blood for baguettes!!!!!!
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There is 2 muslims in my office I feel like an endangered specie !
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Bozon got it right, it's really a cultural problem and also a stupidity issue, we are not dealing with the brightest bulbs here...
This is not at all an organized muslim insurection, most of the kids just think it's a new cool Playstation game, "**** the police" in 3d, odorama and force feedback holodeck program.
of course they yell like stuck pigs when they get *****slapped by the cops, and realize it's for real.
I bet that if it rains on Paris, they won't even go out and this thing will blow over, they have no cause, no leadership,and sadly not much brains...
20+ years of bleeding hearts socialism in France is the main cause, really : no one tried to get the ghetto crowd out of their situation : the pinkos just sprinkled enough welfare and basket courts to maintain people in poverty, blamed it on capitalist greed and gallic racism, and racked up their votes.
this generation feels like they've been cheated by everyone, and is hopeless.
they were also maintained in ignorance by a flawed educational system who is perverted by the "equality" motto . (noble idea at first : same chances for everybody)
equality now means go for the lowest common denominator, so mediocrity is the norm in french schools, most of the kids write in text message style, and to them success is being selected to participate in a reality show , get money for nothing and the chicks for free...
hey, I forgot to blame Bush !
I'm sure it's a conspiracy ! I blame echelon, the cia and Bed Bath and Beyond !
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by scott123
See Rule #4
We repayed Lafayette at least twice.
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Originally posted by scott123
See Rule #4
I think our main motive in helping the Americans was to swipe a piece of the action and make a buck or two, noble causes are usually a nice smokescreen for greed, lust and power, it's human nature.
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Originally posted by straffo
Completly cretin and distorted at best it's incompetence at worst it's pure propaganda.
PS: Benador Associates is as fair as balanced as Fox news.
Look at this article from dated 03 Jan 2005
Well as someone who watches the news daily AND from different Networks I have to say Fox IS the most balanced network out there.
It's nice to hear both sides of an argument for a change and not 2 or more liberals pretending to know what a conservitive would say.
Most liberals don't like Fox because they are so used to only hearing their point of view that it upsets them to hear what the other side really thinks.
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See Rule #5
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Well as someone who watches the news daily AND from different Networks I have to say Fox IS the most balanced network out there.
It's nice to hear both sides of an argument for a change and not 2 or more liberals pretending to know what a conservitive would say.
Most liberals don't like Fox because they are so used to only hearing their point of view that it upsets them to hear what the other side really thinks.
I've watched Fox in 2003 and if it was fair I'm the next queen of England.
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Long live teh Queen!
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Well as someone who watches the news daily AND from different Networks I have to say Fox IS the most balanced network out there.
It's nice to hear both sides of an argument for a change and not 2 or more liberals pretending to know what a conservitive would say.
Most liberals don't like Fox because they are so used to only hearing their point of view that it upsets them to hear what the other side really thinks.
Teh Libruhls :mad:
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See Rule #4, #5
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See Rule #4
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The rioters are actually ardent environmentalists...that's why they are burning the cars.
What is this thread doing here? The deleted one was a model of decorum compared to this one. :lol
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
See Rule #4
Hmmm ... I think you deserve the gold "out of context" award.
And as far as I know this thread is full of example of how no-american did stir the pot.
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Originally posted by straffo
Hmmm ... I think you deserve the gold "out of context" award.
And as far as I know this thread is full of example of how no-american did stir the pot.
<-----self admitted pot stirer
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Originally posted by straffo
Hmmm ... I think you deserve the gold "out of context" award.
And as far as I know this thread is full of example of how no-american did stir the pot.
How is it out of context, he said he didn't, yet he did. Couldn't think of a better example than this. If anything is out of context, its his initial post in this thread claiming the high ground.
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can i piss into the french wind too?
its never smart to piss into the wind.
the real problem is Gangster type ghetto kids! Muslim/arabic/black/white, it doesnt matter, but in this case its mostly muslim/arabic kids.
That happen to be in France and the French Police and politicions have let it go too far!
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Originally posted by straffo
I've watched Fox in 2003 and if it was fair I'm the next queen of England.
Hope the dress fits you.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
See Rule #4
Nice try, Rip. That post was in a thread about "freedoms"/government nannying, much of which digressed into a discussion about car seatbelt laws in different parts of the world. The complete paragraph was As to actually having a LAW - you have to understand that government is between a rock and a hard place. If a seatbelt law is passed, they're accused of nannying. But if they do nothing to tackle the problem of RTA deaths and injuries, they're accused of complacency - to the accompaniment of a chorus of "why doesn't the government do something"? You only have to look at post Katrina New Orleans to see the effect on a government's popularity when people are dying deaths that could perhaps have been avoided had the appropriate action been taken when it was needed.
and can be found in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/printthread.php?s=&threadid=160165&perpage=482) thread. So if that's the best you can do, it's a bit of a sorry effort! Now quit following me around like an eggy fart and go and post something good about the A380. :D
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See Rule #4
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CRS, special forces? LOL! CRS are 'compagnies republicaines de sécurité', some kind of toned down police force assigned to crowd control (protest marches, big soccer events...). They have less judicial powers than normal police and certainly aren't too tough about recruitment and training.
I have information from a french friend who thinks otherwise:
People in france are fed up. People in france have seen the limits of the bet gouverment. People living in france have finaly desided to break out with the rioting I guess. Everybody HATES the CRS and municiple police forces also. So actuarly, i'll bet that the rioters are enjoying beating up the forces. If the army gets called in... either their will be a massacre, or ... I don't know how the army soldiers are... but they arn't as stuck up as the CRS in general, well... I guess in time we'll see what happens won't we?
would be fun if the army goins sides with the rioters though :D
(CRS are the ultra violent bloodthirsty riot police (they are military and not regular police)
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Hi Funked,
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Boy Seagoon I'm impressed with you taking the high road and all. Cos yeah, ya know, wagering on retarded press coverage is worse than posting retarded press coverage.
Let me assure you I wasn't trying to play holier than thou by starting a new thread. I felt bad about starting a new thread when there was already one going that touched on the same subject, but that particular thread had already generated a lot of ad homs and bad blood (unfortunately this one seems to be going in that direction too), and I didn't feel right about posting in a thread many of the Euros (I guess that technically still includes me) had already interpreted as Americans being flippant about foriegn misery. I just followed my conscience on that one. If I offended you in the process, I sincerely apologize, and if I gave the impression that I think of myself as anything other than as an unworthy sinner, then I repent in sackcloth and ashes. I hope you will forgive me.
As far as the articles I posted, I try to read authors who not only understand Islam, but who have lived under it, and so know it both in theory and practice. Amir Taheri is a man who left Iran in order to escape from the Islamic theocracy there. As such, he has experienced the radical loss of freedom that comes with the implementation of Sharia law, and understands the Islamic mindset in a way that few Westerners do. I first started reading his occasional columns in the Independent prior to 9/11 and have found he and Bat Yeor to be two of the best assessors of the ongoing process of Islamicization in Europe. To date, neither of them have been proven wrong in their predictions for the course things there would take vis a vis the Muslim community.
Anyway, forgive me for giving the wrong impression.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
See Ruel #4
ROFL - an oblique reference used in the context of an entirely different discussion. And as you weren't even in that thread, I take it you must have done a search through this board looking for dirt, and that's the best you could come up with. :aok
If I were to say "I once lived in London, but have lived in Berkshire most of my life", would I be commenting on London? Erm... don't think so. :p
There's only one person I recall who did board trawls looking for dirt in that way, and that was that prat OneWordAnswer, who claimed to live in NY. I wonder who he really was... ;)
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ok..sorry..
I guess France is doing a DAM GOOD JOB!!!
good luck on your society.....I am pissed abvout our social programs..but we are not on the level of yours. You guys are screwed.
This will not happen in the USA. 13 nights of burning cars? I see it already..."please just stay home...we will put a cresent on our flag!"
Peace Be with you
pfftttt ...LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Hi Straffo,
Originally posted by straffo
Completly cretin and distorted at best it's incompetence at worst it's pure propaganda.
I apologize in advance for the language barrier, French is obviously not a language I am fluent in, and I appreciate your willingness to use English.
Straffo, its obvious you don't agree with Taheri's assessment, and have simply folded him into the "Right Winger" category for easy dissmissal. You seem to prefer to frame the whole situation in terms of socialist political theory and conclude that what needs to happen in order to create paradise is for more economic and social concessions and hand-outs to be given to the Muslim immigrants. In other words, what France really needs is more of the same approach that has so catastrophically failed over the last 4 decades. You also seem to believe that if Muslim immigrants do riot, then it must be the fault of the society, and if we only instituted more entitlements, privilleges, and wealth redistribution, then no one would shout "Allahu Akbar" and stone police cars or burn synagogues. Apparently also, calling off the police, allowing the immigrants to govern themselves and apply Sharia in various areas, keep the hijab and the headscarf, will aid in their assimilation into a French society they clearly do not wish to be culturally assimilated into.
You may be surprised by this, but I can understand and sympathize to a certain extent with the immgrants desire not to be assimilated. As a culture in your midst and yet looking from the outside in on French society, their general assessment (reflected in the sermons of the vast majority of Imams in France) is that French society is decadent and dying. They see pornography, promiscuity, adultery, feminism, abortion, divorce, homosexuality, drug abuse, and the way these things have been normed, and they are repulsed. They see the catastophic decline of marriage and family throughout Europe and they conclude that if they were to adopt the French culture, this would be their inheritance. Their assessment is accurate, but their solution is worse than the cultural decay afflicting French (and European) society - namely Islam and the specifically the implementation of Sharia.
Now, you are free to continue to treat this is an economic problem and continue to offer them concession after concession and continue to blame yourselves, and capitalism, and of course the hated Americans, but the short term result of that plan will be to simply to bring about what Taheri, and Yeor, and Spencer are warning you of, and what the Imams are promising - namely to establish areas in France which are effectively part of the Dar-El-Islam. No "assimilation" will resort from this approach. The long term effect on the other hand will be that their culture eventually overwhelms and replaces yours. There are many reasons for this, the simplest of them being that they naturally do something native Frenchmen have to be paid to do these days - build families and have kids. Additionally, they actually believe in something so strongly they are willing to kill and die for it, a feeling which is mostly just a dim memory for most Europeans. In many ways, what is going on in Europe is an eerie parallel to to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. We have a different set of barbarians at the gate, but the scenario is just the same.
The above will be an unpopular assessment, then again Churchill's assessment of what was going on in Germany in the late 20's and '30s was equally unpopular in all the same places. There we were told an underprivilleged people were simply reacting against economic hardships imposed upon them by the heartless West and that it was our duty to make concessions to them.
You are also free to conclude I'm just another ugly American right-winger without the sophistication necessary to understand Europe, but then again I was born into an English family, and gained my University training there, and have at least travelled throughout Europe including France. I'll also freely acknowledge that US culture is decadent as well, and I have grave fears that the US will not be able to stand up to Islam in the long run either, but at least the US isn't quite as far along in the slide into cultural decay as their ancestors across the Atlantic.
Incidentally, I'll let people draw their own conclusions regarding Benador, whose website is located here (http://www.benadorassociates.com/). They were founded by Elena Benador, and include commentators from a number of different cultures, with their specialty being the Islamic world. You may not like their take on things, but like their founder, they tend not to be idiots. Here is part of the founder's CV:
"Eleana Benador, who is Swiss-American, was born in Lima, Peru. After living most of her life in Europe, Paris, Vienna and Geneva, she moved to the United States. A linguist by nature, Ms Benador studied interpreting and translating at the Sorbonne and the Universite Catholique de Lille. She also studied psychology at the Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos in Lima, Peru, as well as political science in Vienna, Austria, and in Geneva, Switzerland. She is fluent in French, English, German and Spanish, understands and speaks Portuguese, Italian and Dutch, and reads Hebrew and some Russian."
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
This will not happen in the USA. 13 nights of burning cars? I see it already..."please just stay home...we will put a cresent on our flag!"
Better check the history of your own state. http://www.lasell.edu/images/userImages/fweil/Page_495/watts_riot.pdf
Watts Riots, Los Angeles, 1965. 50 cars burned by the end of the first night. And the reason? A white police officer had pursued an African American motorist, and subsequently arrested him for drunk driving. Hmmmm, the pursuit, the arrest, the mixed race nature of the incident.... remarkable parallels with France 2005.
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Gosh Seagoon, don't you know elequent words and common sense won't get you anywhere around here? You last post was one of the best ones I've read in a long time. Probaby since I read one of your other posts...
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I have information from a french friend who thinks otherwise:
Your friend is a liar of pretty misinformed , the CRS are part of the Police not the army.
cannot make the wiki link work
got to this page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_National_Police
and click on Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité
or he confused with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Gendarmerie#The_Gendarmerie_Mobile
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And with that happy note, it will end. Do not start another one of these threads folks. It is painfully clear this crowd cannot discuss this topic without taking cheap and/or derogatory shots.