Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Jester on November 10, 2005, 12:40:30 AM
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I would like to see more armored vehicles myself and as stated in another thread - more ground battle areas closer together.
Here is a partial list of some of the main vehicles we need to see, IMO:
AXIS:
German:
Panther ausf D or G
Stug III ausf F
Marder III ausf M
Sdkfz 251 Halftrack - three versions - (player could pick one) APC, single 20mm AA gun version or version with short 37mm anti-tank or 75mm assault gun.
Japanese:
Type 97 CHI-HA (57mm Gun)
(Version built on this chassy also had an open platform 75mm SP Gun)
ALLIED:
T-34/85
SU-85 Assault Gun
76mm Firefly Sherman
M-3 Halftrack with 75mm anti-tank gun
(To offset the German advantage in armor to some degree. All could be perked)
ARTILLERY:
If it ever becomes where we can use mobile artillery effectively, it would also be nice to see the following:
M-8 Priest 75mm
s.FH 18 Hummel 150mm
s.FH Wespe 105mm
Take into account this list is mostly for "Historical" arenas such as the Events, CT & future TOD. Most will not be used by the MA crowd as they are going to use the Tiger or best non-perked tank - currently the Panzer IV.
S! :aok
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Just as an FYI, the Firefly Sherman carried an English 17 pounder and
the Priest carried a 105mm.
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I think he meant the Sherman 'Easy Eight'?
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My bad... that is what you get for posting while half asleep. :D
Yes, ment the following:
British Sherman Firefly VC with the 17 pdr Gun (How many mm's does that come to? Thought it equaled a long cal. 76mm.)
M-8 PRIEST with the 105mm
Didn't think of the M-3A1E8 Sherman - that is the one with the 105mm assault gun isn't it?
Might also be cool to see a Sherman with a Flamethrower for the Marines. :D
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Originally posted by Jester
My bad... that is what you get for posting while half asleep. :D
Yes, ment the following:
British Sherman Firefly VC with the 17 pdr Gun (How many mm's does that come to? Thought it equaled a long cal. 76mm.)
M-8 PRIEST with the 105mm
Didn't think of the M-3A1E8 Sherman - that is the one with the 105mm assault gun isn't it?
Might also be cool to see a Sherman with a Flamethrower for the Marines. :D
Off the top of my head, I believe the 17 lber is about 77mm. The Easy
Eight Sherman had improved frontal armor and a 76mm gun.
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By the way jester, good list :aok .
Because of the way GV combat is handled in AH now, I think some tank
destroyer units would not be amiss. I know it's sort of an uber vehicle,
but the Jagdpanther would be a fun perkie to play with.(http://afvdb.50megs.com/germany/pics/jgpanth2.jpg)
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Question for the GV historians: How much (if any) "traverse" was available for aiming the turretless german vehicles? I cant imagine that aiming was done with the treads, pivoting the whole vehicle...
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M4A3E8 'Easy Eight' had a long-barreled 76mm gun, heavier armor and upgraded engine.
I still want to see a Pershing in here someday.
And those turretless German PzKpfW (like the Hetzer) were designed more for ambush-style combat than run-and-gun shooting. They could fine tune the aim a few degrees, but it had to pretty much a dead straight-on shot.
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Hey Simaril,
First, you have to remember the vehicles like the Jagdpanzer, Marder, Hetzer, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger, etc. used different tactics than tanks (when possible). Their tactics were "Hit and Run" or fireing from long ranges at unwary targets with their more powerful guns. That is when they did their best. Still dangerous at close range - the advantage started to go over to the tanks the closer the range became.
As you stated the guns on the tank destroyers were not fixed - the did have a limited traverse, elevation and depression. In fact if I am correct - the turrets on the U.S. M-10 JACKSON & M-18 HELLCAT TD's would traverse 360 degrees just like a tank & the Hellcat could do 55 MPH!.
On the German TD's - it varried due to the model but here are some of the major models:
T = Traverse, E = Elevation, D = Depression
MARDER III T: 21 deg L&R E: +13 deg D: - 8 deg
JgdPzr 38 HETZER T: 5 deg L, 11 deg R E: +12 deg D: - 6 deg
JGDPZR IV/70 T: 10 deg L&R E: + 15 deg D: - 5 deg
SdKfz 164 NASHORN/HORNISSE T: 30 deg L&R E: +20 deg D: -5 deg
JAGDPANTHER T: 13 deg L&R E: +14 deg D: - 8 deg
FERDINAND/ELEFANT T: 28 deg L&R E: +14 deg D: - 8 deg
JAGDTIGER T: 10 deg L&R E: +15 deg D: - 7.5 deg
Yea, it would be cool to have the Jagdpanther but I would much rather hunt the tundra for "Ruskies" in a G model Panther! :D Even with the smaller gun. The 75mm KwK42 L/70 on the G was still capable of taking down the big Stalin tanks and litterly blew the turrets off the T-34's.
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Originally posted by Jester
I would like to see more armored vehicles myself and as stated in another thread - more ground battle areas closer together.
Here is a partial list of some of the main vehicles we need to see, IMO:
AXIS:
German:
Panther ausf D or G
Stug III ausf F
Marder III ausf M
Sdkfz 251 Halftrack - three versions - (player could pick one) APC, single 20mm AA gun version or version with short 37mm anti-tank or 75mm assault gun.
Japanese:
Type 97 CHI-HA (57mm Gun)
(Version built on this chassy also had an open platform 75mm SP Gun)
ALLIED:
T-34/85
SU-85 Assault Gun
76mm Firefly Sherman
M-3 Halftrack with 75mm anti-tank gun
(To offset the German advantage in armor to some degree. All could be perked)
ARTILLERY:
If it ever becomes where we can use mobile artillery effectively, it would also be nice to see the following:
M-8 Priest 75mm
s.FH 18 Hummel 150mm
s.FH Wespe 105mm
Take into account this list is mostly for "Historical" arenas such as the Events, CT & future TOD. Most will not be used by the MA crowd as they are going to use the Tiger or best non-perked tank - currently the Panzer IV.
S! :aok
What about the Jumbo Sherman with the thicker frontal armor and the 90mm gun?
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Then again......
The way to go to get more armored vehicles fast would be to build off the vehicles we already have - such as the PANZER IV, T-34 and M-3 HALFTRACK. useing the same chassy as they did historicaly. We have already done this with the FLAKPANZER & M-16 HALFTRACK we have now. This should make less work for the people that make these vehicles.
Some of the versions we could modify this way:
PANZER IV:
Wurbelwund AA Vehicle (quad 20mm AA)
Jagdpanzer IV/70 (Tank Hunter)
Sturmschutz IV Assault Gun
T-34:
T-34/85 Tank
SU-85 Assault Gun
SU-100 Assault Gun
SU-122 Assault Gun
M-3 HALFTRACK:
M-15 AA Vehicle (2x .50 cal MG's, 1x 37mm AA)
M-3 Anti-Tank HT (75mm Anti-tank gun)
M-19 Assault Gun (105mm Howitzer)
Just to name a few. If and when we get the M-4 SHERMAN tank - several of the versions listed in the above posts could also be released.
IMO, The Germans already have a good vehicle set with the Heavy TIGER and Medium PANZER IV. What needs filling out first is the Soviet & US/British vehicle sets.
What would be ideal to see would be an "indigenous" vehicle set for each country with 1x Heavy tank (Perked), 1x Medium tank (Free), 1x SP Gun (slightly perked if the guns are larger than the med tank gun), 1x AA vehicle (Free) & 1x APC (Free).
:aok
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Well thought out plan jester.
Hope HT was in a good mood & listened when he read it!
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Great list but could use some british stuff (just to add some variety):
Here's some ideas:
Churchill tank: Both w/ the 6 pdr and the 95mm howitizer
Sexton: Like the M-7 Priest but with a 25 pounder.
Comwell: A bunch of variations possible here.
Bren Carrier (recon)
And some US:
M-24 chafee (great for recon due to high speed - same gun in this as in the B24 - I think) - basis for the M-18 hellcat.
M-3 Stuart (Uses a rotary aircraft engine and is super quick)
And how about some static Anti- Tank positions (88's, 17pdrs, 76mms etc)near the critical areas (like flak but for GV)?
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Originally posted by Eden
Great list but could use some british stuff (just to add some variety):
Here's some ideas:
Churchill tank: Both w/ the 6 pdr and the 95mm howitizer
Sexton: Like the M-7 Priest but with a 25 pounder.
Comwell: A bunch of variations possible here.
Bren Carrier (recon)
And some US:
M-24 chafee (great for recon due to high speed - same gun in this as in the B24 - I think) - basis for the M-18 hellcat.
M-3 Stuart (Uses a rotary aircraft engine and is super quick)
And how about some static Anti- Tank positions (88's, 17pdrs, 76mms etc)near the critical areas (like flak but for GV)?
Don't get me wrong - As I said in the post above:
What would be ideal to see would be an "indigenous" vehicle set for each country with 1x Heavy tank (Perked), 1x Medium tank (Free), 1x SP Gun (slightly perked if the guns are larger than the med tank gun), 1x AA vehicle (Free) & 1x APC (Free).
I would like to see a full set of vehicles for every country - but we have to face fact - we are "Second Class Citizens" as AH is primarily a FLIGHT SIM and most of the work is going to go towards new aircraft. With my suggestion above - I was just suggesting to HTC how we might get new vehicles into the works quicker by useing existing material based on vehicles that we already have online.
Yea Ghosth, one can keep fingers crossed and hope. :aok
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Which would be a better candidate for a new BRITISH tank to add to the AH vehicle line-up?
CROMWELL MK. IV CRUSIER
(http://tamiya.com/english/monthly/002korean_war/35221.jpg)
or the
CHURCHILL MK. VII
(http://tamiya.com/english/monthly/002korean_war/35210.jpg)
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Well for the American set it would be nice to have the M-26 Pershing. Late war tank that saw some service in the ETO. Had a 90mm gun and could take out a Tiger. It would probably need to be perked.
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One needs to think of something else while figuring out the tactics on the German tnak destroyers, is that the optics the tank gunners used were more advanced of their allied counterparts, it allowed them to spot the enemy it further distances than what their adversaries could.
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Originally posted by Jester
Which would be a better candidate for a new BRITISH tank to add to the AH vehicle line-up?
CROMWELL MK. IV CRUSIER
(http://tamiya.com/english/monthly/002korean_war/35221.jpg)
or the
CHURCHILL MK. VII
(http://tamiya.com/english/monthly/002korean_war/35210.jpg)
Did you build these?
If so, nice job
Hmm prefer the churchill (due to armor thickness and "interesting" variations)
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Originally posted by Eden
Did you build these?
If so, nice job
Nah, got them off the Tamiya USA website. Mine don't look that good for some reason. :D
I "Googled" to try to find some good combat pics of the real tanks but couldn't find any I liked so I went with the model shots.
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Originally posted by Bonzzz
What about the Jumbo Sherman with the thicker frontal armor and the 90mm gun?
There is no such animal....no "jumbo" shermans were equipped with the 90mm gun (unless a prototype)....from anothet bbs
All original M4A3E2 were built with 75mm M3 for infantry support,this means 254 vehicles. But upgrading former M4A3/76Ws with still the suspension of the second generation (not hVSS) was common as well,these wehicles were armed with 76mm guns.From Military History online...About the original Jumbo's I can't help...sorry.
"An important variant of the M4 was the M4A3E2 Jumbo assault tank. This modified vehicle was heavily armored (although all initial production models were equipped with the 75mm). Few (254) were factory built, however Ordnance workshops of the US First and Third Armies successfully modified many M4s in the field to Jumbos (between January and March 1945 the Third Army alone produced 108 of these "ersatz Jumbos," it appears that about 100 additional were produced in 1944). Allocation of the Jumbo varied. Usually they were found in the armored divisions, although some First Army separate tank battalions also had them. Normally there was no more than one "Jumbo" per company, although some divisions organized them as a complete company within the battalion."
Basically every source I know gives about the same production of ~250 total jumbos + about another 100 "field modified" that more or less were brought up to that level.
Standard M4A3E2
(http://users.swing.be/tkimg2/10520.jpg)
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US variations of the M-4
M4- Continental radial engine; welded hull; 75-mm and 105-mm versions only. Users: US, Britain, Poland. Some very late M4s had composite cast/welded hulls.
M4(105) - Upgraded with 105mm M4 howitzer.
M4(105) HVSS - M4(105) w/ HVSS.
M4A1 - Continental radial engine; one-piece cast hull; 75-mm and 76-mm versions built. Users: US, Britain, South Africa, France (small numbers)
M4A1E4/M4A1(76)W - Upgraded with 76mm M1 gun.
M4A1E8/M4A1(76)W HVSS - Upgraded with widetrack Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension (HVSS), fitted with the 76mm M1 gun.
M4A2 - Diesel-powered; welded hull; 75-mm and 76-mm guns. Users: USSR (M4C), USMC, France, Britain, Poland. No US Army combat use.
M4A2E8/M4A2(76)W HVSS - Upgraded with widetrack Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension (HVSS), fitted with the 76mm M1 gun.
M4A3 - Ford GAA V-8 engine; welded hull; 75-mm, 76-mm, and 105-mm guns. Users: US, France (small numbers). The M4A3 was the preferred US Army vehicle.
M4A3(75)W - M4A3 w/ 75mm M3 gun.
M4A3(105) - M4A3 w/ 105mm M4 howitzer.
M4A3E2 Assault Tank - postwar nickname "Jumbo" - extra armour (including 4" on front), vertical sided turret, but about 3-4 mph slower. Built with 75mm gun but frequently re-armed by the using units with 76-mm guns. Users: US, France (one vehicle)
M4A3E4/M4A3(76)W - M4A3 w/ 76mm M1 gun.
M4A3E8/M4A3(76)W HVSS (Easy Eight) - Upgraded with widetrack Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension (HVSS), fitted with the 76mm M1 gun.
M4A3E9/M4A3(105) HVSS - Upgraded with widetrack Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension (HVSS), fitted with the 105mm M4 howitzer.
M4A4 - Chrysler A57 engine; welded, lengthened hull; 75-mm gun only as-built. Many re-armed with British 17-pounder guns ("Firefly"). Users: Britain, France, China
M4A5 - No US vehicle was built with this designation; the number was meant to signify Canadian production.
M4A6 - Diesel engine; composite cast/welded hull lengthened similarly to the M4A4; 75-mm gun only. Only a few dozen of this variant were built and none were used in combat.
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you forgot the Japanese Ha-Go dont know what type
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Humble,
I think he is talking about the M-36 JACKSON Tank Destroyer which was equipted with the 90mm main gun.
The first model M-36 carried the 90mm gun in a new turret on the old M-10 Tank Destroyer hull. (M-10 left with 3"/76mm gun, M-36 with 90mm gun on the right)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/selfpropelledguns/usspg-M10-M36.jpg)
The later M-36B1 version had the same turret placed on the standard M-4A3 SHERMAN tank hull. This increased armor protection over the old M-10 hull as well as provided a bow .30 cal machine gun position that was missing on the M-10 hull.
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/selfpropelledguns/usspg-T71-M36a.jpg)
The later M-36B2 went back to the old M-10 type hull but incorporated a type of overhead armor that none of the previous tank destroyers had. (M-18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer in the background).
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/selfpropelledguns/usspg-M36-full.jpg)
The 90mm main gun of the M-36 JACKSON could penetrate 6 inches of armor at 1000 yards, and with 2 rounds, penetrate 5 feet of concrete.
Production quanities are as follows:
M36 - 1413
M36B1 - 187
M36B2 - 724
If we ever do get the M-4 SHERMAN, it would be very easy to do the M-36B1 version with the 90mm gun. All that would have to be changed is the turret and the balistics for the gun, the hull is the same as the Sherman.
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oooooohhhhhhh me wants
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Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
you forgot the Japanese Ha-Go dont know what type
TYPE 95 "HA-GO"
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/type95.jpg)
The "Ha-Go" made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is basicly just a light tank armed with a 37mm gun and a pair of MG's. Though they saw lots of action in the Pacific and China - they mostly came out on the bad end when matched against American armor. Marine M-3 STUART and M-4 SHERMAN tanks made short work of a force of them during the Invasions of Tarawa & Peleliu.
TYPE 97 "CHI-HA"
(57mm gun version)
(http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/axis/szt97.jpg)
(47mm gun version)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/Type-97-Shinto-Chi-Ha.jpg)
The TYPE 97 "CHI-HA" with the low velocity 57mm gun or with the improved hi velocity 47mm gun is about the best Japanes tank to have seen combat.
TYPE 3 "CHI-NU"
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/type3-medium-chinu.jpg)
About the only Japanese tank that would have a chance slugging it out with a Sherman would be the TYPE 3 "CHI-NU." It had a 75mm gun and improved armor but only 66 were produced and all of them were kept on the Japanese Main Land for the expected US invasion. None saw combat.
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And the Wirbelwind to protect them from those pesky IL2's & Hurri's
(http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/artykuly/wirbelwind/Wirbelwind_big.jpg)
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Interesting, that Type 3 Chi Nu does not appear to have been riveted. That is the only WWII Japanese tank that I can recall seeing that was not riveted.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Interesting, that Type 3 Chi Nu does not appear to have been riveted. That is the only WWII Japanese tank that I can recall seeing that was not riveted.
Yea, that is kind of interesting - never noticed it. However it is only the turret of the TYPE 3 CHI-NU that is welded. It has the same rivited hull of the TYPE 97 CHI-HA. You can just barely see it in the pic.
Would be interesting to see how CHI-NU would have fared against USMC Sherman's if they had seen combat. Don't think the Japanese tank had the armor to slug it out with a Sherman.