Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on November 10, 2005, 07:44:26 AM
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November 10, 1975 the bulk freighter Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior with all hands.
(http://www.mhsd.org/fleet/O/On-Columbia/fitz/FITZ-painting-copyright-bud-robinson.jpg)
Fitzgerald cleared Superior, Wisconsin, on her last trip on November 9, 1975, with a cargo of 26,116 tons of taconite pellets consigned to Detroit. Traveling down Lake Superior in company with ARTHUR M. ANDERSON of the United States Steel Corporation's Great Lakes Fleet, she encountered heavy weather and in the early evening of November 10th, suddenly foundered approximately 17 miles from the entrance to Whitefish Bay (47º North Latitude, 85º 7' West Longitude)
Captain McSorley of the "FITZ" had indicated he was having difficulty and was taking on water. She was listing to port and had two of three ballast pumps working. She had lost her radar and damage was noted to ballast tank vent pipes and he was overheard on the radio saying, "don't allow nobody (sic) on deck." McSorley said it was the worst storm he had ever seen. All 29 officers and crew, including a Great Lakes Maritime Academy cadet, went down with the ship, which lies broken in two sections in 530 feet of water.
What a way to go. Think I'll tip a glass in their memory tonight and listen to Lightfoot's ballad one more time.
I've never seen Superior angry, but I have made a wreck dive off of Split Rock Lighthouse, and I know how big and cold she is, even in August. Definitely a lifetime memory for me-- seeing 1" thick steel plating twisted like ribbon strewn over the lake bottom. Even big ships are pretty puny compared to what Nature can muster when it decides to.
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30 years ago today, the Edmund Fitzgerald, with 29 souls slipped beneath the waves of Lake Superior.
Poor bastards.
On another note, in researching the E.F. I was surprised how many times this boat hit stuff and was damaged. Makes me wonder if all that cummulative damage contributed to her sinking.
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Just heard on the radio, it was the cadet's last training trip, and it was to be the Captain and 1st Engineer's last trip before retirement.
This is one of those tragedies that hits closer to home than most. Not sure why, just the nature of the sinking I guess. Happened really quick - the Capt's last words were, "We're holding our own."
Never found anybody, as far as I know. One of the lifeboats washed ashore later but that was probably just ripped off in her plunge to the bottom.
You know, if you put her back together and stood her on end, she'd extend more than 200' out of the water? I always had the image of her at the bottom of a deep, deep lake but that's not a true picture.
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The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.
With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early
The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.
The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind
When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.
The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.
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Can you imagine, 26,000 tons of little pellets?
(http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/GEOPHOTO/Leaverites/DSC02982s.JPG)
Was she over loaded, was that why she sank so easily?
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29 officers and crew. What would the crew number be today considering the skeleton crews that man cargo ships nowadays?
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Was she over loaded, was that why she sank so easily?
No, standard load.
As for the reason for the sinking, it's never been determined. There are two main theories though. One is that she scraped bottom at six fathom shoals, sprung a leak, and took on enough water to make her unstable. The other as that she took on water through a cargo hatch on deck that had been damaged by the storm.
With either theory the end is about the same. She likely plowed headlong into the bottom of a trough between waves and drove her bow under. Cargo and water shifted forward, water on deck made her recovery slow, and she sailed straight under. Snapped in half when her bow hit bottom, flipping the stern half of the ship upside down.
Think I'll pull "Gales of November" off the shelf again; haven't read it since 5th grade. If you're interested in the ship, it's a great book and a fairly quick read.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
As for the reason for the sinking, it's never been determined. There are two main theories though. One is that she scraped bottom at six fathom shoals, sprung a leak, and took on enough water to make her unstable. The other as that she took on water through a cargo hatch on deck that had been damaged by the storm.
I also heard one theory that a set of "rogue" waves caused her to break her back. Two big waves in sequence picked up her stern and bow leaving her mid section unsupported. The ship that was following seven miles behind her (I can't remember her name though.) reported waves that had the size and frequency to potentially cause this.
Terror
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http://www.ssefo.com/
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Terrible tragedy, strange circumstances, great song.
there is an article on the front page today about the man Edmund Fitzgerald. he was a head of Northwest Mutual here in Milwaukee, and going back many generations his family were mariners on the great lakes.
personally i subscribe to the 2 giant waves lifting the boat and snapping it in half theroy. all the other possibilities allow some time for a radio call of distress to be sent out.
she probably did bottom on the shoal, but it probably only weakened here, and helped the waves deal the death blow.
just read that Edmund Fitzgerald (not the son Edmund B.) never heard the Gordon Lightfoot song, and had refused a meeting one time back in the 80's.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Can you imagine, 26,000 tons of little pellets?
How much would that weigh???
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Originally posted by midnight Target
How much would that weigh???
uh lessee here maybe about 52,000,000 lbs or 23636363 kilos or 26,000 tons. :p
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I remember vacationing on Whitefish Bay in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. It would have been 77' or 78'-not too many years after she went down. I remember looking out at the endless water and thinking about Big Fitz. An earry memory to this day.
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Originally posted by Terror
I also heard one theory that a set of "rogue" waves caused her to break her back. Two big waves in sequence picked up her stern and bow leaving her mid section unsupported. The ship that was following seven miles behind her (I can't remember her name though.) reported waves that had the size and frequency to potentially cause this.
Terror
The rogue wave theory doesn't hold up very well because it's not likely she broke at the surface. The two pieces are very close to each other, and their orientation suggests that she plowed into the mud with the stern still sticking up and snapped when she buckled.
It is possible that they were what drove her under though.
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A sudden, cold, and violent demise for the crew though. .
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Originally posted by Tarmac
The rogue wave theory doesn't hold up very well because it's not likely she broke at the surface. The two pieces are very close to each other, and their orientation suggests that she plowed into the mud with the stern still sticking up and snapped when she buckled.
It is possible that they were what drove her under though.
i think you may be thinking about the way the titanic broke at the surface, and the miles of sinking to seperate the two parts.
if the bow did get driven down, what drove it? the screws would be in the air even withe the bow on the bottom of the lake.
i think it had to break in 1/2 on the surface, at least part way. if that happened, the middle of the boat would go down first, pulled by the release of the hold. when the ship gave in and fully snapped it is easy to see the bow slapping down onto the bottom, and with the screws probably still partially moving, the stern twisting as it sank and hit the bottom.
in fact, if it went down middle first, the stern may have had a large pocket of air holding it up for a moment or two, to further disorient it from the bow.
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quote:Originally posted by midnight Target
How much would that weigh???
uh lessee here maybe about 52,000,000 lbs or 23636363 kilos or 26,000 tons.
MT wins for the day.
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There's lots of published stuff on the Fitzgerald, and pretty much all of it says that she broke underwater when her bow hit.
Originally it was thought that it broke at the surface, but when they found the wreckage it was pretty conclusive that it hadn't. The USCG report said it took on water due to faulty hatch covers, while the NTSB's report says it was damage to the hatch covers, while the Lake Carrier's Association report found it was due to scraping bottom at the shoals. No official source maintains that it broke at the surface.
I'm no naval architect, but it seems reasonable that with a changing CG due to pellet and water shifting, coupled with a couple fatefully positioned waves could easily drive a ship underwater. Once it goes under it woudn't come back up fully if at all, especially if the hatches were damaged.
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Fate plays often strange games. I seen this post this morning and was VERY hesitant to reply. I am very proud that you all respect the Fitz. She was a great ore bearing boat.
I grew up in Toledo Ohio as my Father did. He was young and did a stint in the Navy during the Korean War and got out of the service. My Father was a Machinist Mate in the Navy. After he got out and back to Toledo he had held jobs for Libby Glass working medial jobs on the night shift which was slowlky killin him.
I was born in '58... Dad finally quit Libbey Glass and got a spot as an Oiler on the Fitz. I remember being so poor in the early '60's that we had Thanksgiving dinner in the Fitz in '64 and '65. Dad stayed on until '67 and with wife ack from my Mom rejoined the Navy.
I seen my Dad cry the hardest in '75 when the Fitzie went down.. I didn't understand it then but with age I know a part of hin went down also. He knew many of the crew.
Years ago when Gordon Lightfoot came out with that song it touched my Dads heart very much.
I would call him tonight and say I love you for going back into the Navy..but tomorrow is Veterans Day and I can roll it up all in one phone call. Dad did 28 years in the Navy I did 20 in the Army..Army/Navy Game is BIG in our Family... But I know he will soon be gone. lost his right lung to cancer.
I'm 47 now and even when I was very young and thought my Dad was a total AHole it stuck in me... now as I'm older. I love him and will hate to lose him now.
Just a lil piece of Mac...
mac
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Mac, you can call twice you know. Cherish the time remaining, no one knows the time they have and we all end up wasting too much of it.
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Fitzgerald cleared Superior, Wisconsin, on her last trip on November 9, 1975, with a cargo of 26,116 tons of taconite pellets consigned to Detroit. Traveling down Lake Superior in company with ARTHUR M. ANDERSON of the United States Steel Corporation's Great Lakes Fleet, she encountered heavy weather and in the early evening of November 10th, suddenly foundered approximately 17 miles from the entrance to Whitefish Bay (47º North Latitude, 85º 7' West Longitude)
Funny, it took Enron to sink Arthur Anderson
(sorry, couldn't resist)
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Originally posted by Maverick
Mac, you can call twice you know. Cherish the time remaining, no one knows the time they have and we all end up wasting too much of it.
Amen Mav. When my Grandpa (USMC 43-46) had his operation for Colon Cancer in Feb, 1998, my Wife (then Fiance) and I visited him in the Hospital. When we got there, we chatted for a couple minutes, he showed me his scar from the operation. The nurse asked us to leave so they could bring a new patient in, I reluctanly agreed. We went in 5-7 minutes later, he was sleeping "Let him sleep, he needs to rest" we both said to each other. I never saw him conscious again, he fell into a Coma shortly afterward. We married in Dec. 1998.
Mac, call twice. If you need an excuse for a second call to him, tell him I thank him for serving the best damn country on the Earth.
<>
Karaya
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Well, one theory was the that the hatches that keep the water out were loose. They had clamps that held them down. These openings were quite large, they were opened to pour the ore in. Steel plates were put over these openings and clamped down. I believe the ship was scheduled to have some of these clamps replaced. As the waves beat on the ship, these clamps loosened and water entered. The pellets were pourous and absorbed alot of water, making the load much more heavy. As you know, in between each wave is a gap that dips down. As one wave traveled along the ship, another wave hit the ship. So you have a wave at the front of the ship, and a wave at the rear. In the middle of the ship is the dip between the waves. The middle of the ship being filled with ore and water was too much for the structure to handle, and split in two. It's like taking a 2x4, putting wooden horses at each end holding it up, and putting an elefant in the middle of the 2x4, it would snap in two.
It had a violent launch when it was finished being built, saw the film, it crashed into an adjacent dock. Some say it was cursed. :noid
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Mac, thanks for sharing that story.
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My Dad sailed on the lakes for 15 years. He sailed on the EF for about a year in the early 70's. He knew quite a few of the crew that went down. Shortly after the sinking, he got out. He said he couldn't help thinking of those guys all the time and he didn't want to take the chance of his family losing him. He always got a real pale look on his face whenever he talked about it. Right up to the day he died. I could never imagine that feeling.
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Called my Dad. Great chat. Talked about the past. Talked about the Fitz and he grew quiet. Changed subject and went to more "Common Heart" things.
I can say it's better each time we talk. I can honestly say that my Dad is a Best friend. Alot in common but when yer young you think you know it all. I'll say the older I get I learn how much I don't know. \
He talked a lil about Nam, and I talked a lil of Panama, He talked of Korea and he knows I spent 11 years there. Finally we met face to face or ear to ear on the phone, and instead of Soldier and Sailor we became again Father and Son. We talked of Deer hunting and Walleye fishin...Pop was great when I was a kid. He'd have the day off and had to drive me to 1st Grade...Normally I walked... loaded up in the station wagon was a bunch of cane poles and his fishin rod and reel... we headed to my school.......if front of the school he asked me well do you want to go to school or go fishin...*he was good at times* Best remembered fishin day I hever had in my life and will be in memories.
It hurts to feel that times go by so fast and we have to learn about things so late. At the end of the call we were both choked up, Sailor, Soldier, Father and Son.
Just another piece of Mac....
Mac
I think I'll call him again tomorrow.
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It was a U-boat that did it; a number of them were never accounted for.
eskimo