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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K3 on November 10, 2005, 04:14:39 PM

Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 1K3 on November 10, 2005, 04:14:39 PM
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Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 10, 2005, 05:43:46 PM
I've flown the Spit 16, the Spit 8 and the Spit 1 since the update.

The Spit 16 is friggin amazing.  Not quite as powerful as the spit 14, but a touch more nimbler then it because of clipped wings.

The spit 8 feels a touch faster than the Spit 9 (old spit 9).  Though it feels a bit more sluggish control wise.  It rolls slower (it seems) and doesn't quite have the turning power of the old 9.

The Spit 1 feels to have a good amount of power back.  It's a bit stronger, still rolls poorly and has absolutely great turning characteristics due to the more power in the engine.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 1K3 on November 10, 2005, 05:55:14 PM
i tried seafire, it has a climbrate of a Wildcat

lol
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Sable on November 10, 2005, 05:57:42 PM
Very quick rough test info:

Mk VIII - 18lbs boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 336mph deck speed
Mk XVI - 18lbs boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 342mph deck speed
G14 - 1.7atm boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 345mph deck speed

Spit Mk. V and Seafire now only have peak boost of 12lbs - initial climb rate is around 3000fpm for the Spit and 2750 for the seafire at full fuel!
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 1K3 on November 10, 2005, 06:05:15 PM
spit 1 is now doing 301 mph at deck, thanks to 100 octane fuel used in BoB.  test done in full fuel

before AH2 spitfire update spit 1 was only doing 290 at deck
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 2bighorn on November 10, 2005, 06:15:52 PM
New spit models break wings easily. If you pull hard in spit 8 at 350, wings will come off, not on spit 9 though at the same speed and same Gs :huh
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Karnak on November 10, 2005, 06:49:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
New spit models break wings easily. If you pull hard in spit 8 at 350, wings will come off, not on spit 9 though at the same speed and same Gs :huh

Seems like that would be a bug.  Spits were not known for wing shedding.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Krusty on November 10, 2005, 06:54:11 PM
K-4 rolls as slow as 109s in AH1 did. G6 seems fine. G14 also.

Spit16 is uber as hell. Without wep it was pegged at 4000fpm (maybe 3950, by why quibble??) up to the 10k alt I tested it to (before turning back to waste the offline drones, test out feel/responsiveness).

Hope this baby isn't too badly perked, but I predict it will be (no politics, just opinion based on the feel of the plane).
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: TexMurphy on November 10, 2005, 07:01:36 PM
The XVI is awsome.... though it doesnt turn as well as the other spits but it does roll much better...

You cant fly the XVI like the other spiuts.. should really fly it more on roll and climb...

Tex
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Krusty on November 10, 2005, 07:19:58 PM
I dunno, flew like a spit to me! :)

Tight turns without stalling and very little instability (did they fix the spit14?? I didn't spin out or anything!)
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 10, 2005, 09:18:34 PM
The only wing fragility I've encountered were those spit wings that I've shot.


It seems that the stability of the wing drops quickly as you hit them.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Kurt on November 10, 2005, 09:22:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I dunno, flew like a spit to me! :)

Tight turns without stalling and very little instability (did they fix the spit14?? I didn't spin out or anything!)


Nah, the 14 will still hang you out to dry.... infact with its new horsepower (21 boost now) it might be a little worse in high AOA manuvering.  Use care.  I got it into an unrecoverable inverted spin in the TA...  I haven't had a 14 do that to me since AH1
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 1K3 on November 10, 2005, 09:36:06 PM
kurt the spit 14 is still +18 boost
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Big G on November 10, 2005, 10:35:16 PM
G14 feels like a super heavy G6. The K4 doesn't  feel as powerful  as the G10, new spits are good though
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Widewing on November 10, 2005, 11:12:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
Very quick rough test info:

Mk VIII - 18lbs boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 336mph deck speed
Mk XVI - 18lbs boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 342mph deck speed
G14 - 1.7atm boost, full fuel - 4000fpm+ initial climb, 345mph deck speed

Spit Mk. V and Seafire now only have peak boost of 12lbs - initial climb rate is around 3000fpm for the Spit and 2750 for the seafire at full fuel!


Flying with 25% gas I saw:
337 mph for Mk.VIII
343 mph for Mk.XVI
359 mph for MK.XIV
369 mph for 109K-4
347 mph for 109G-14
337 mph for 109G-6

Time to Climb for all of these, based on 300 mph at 50 feet for start to 10,000 feet are as follows:
Spit Mk.VIII: 1:44.72
Spit Mk.XVI: 1:38.38
Spit Mk.XIV: 1:44.69
Bf 109K-4: 1:43.19
Bf 109G-14: 1:45.72
Bf 109G-6: 1:53.79

So, the Spitfire Mk.XVI is now the climb king (up to 10k, at least). Its rate of roll is close to the 190A-5. Acceleration was timed and it's a dead heat with the Dora from 200 mph to 300 mph. Combine that with decent speed on the deck and you have a fighter that will be a beast in the MA. I see no reason to keep a perk price on the SpitXIV. If anything, the Mk.XVI should have a small perk to keep it from being over-used.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: WilldCrd on November 10, 2005, 11:37:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Big G
G14 feels like a super heavy G6. The K4 doesn't  feel as powerful  as the G10, new spits are good though


hmm must really really mean what he said lol
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Booz on November 11, 2005, 12:18:11 AM
jugfood, all jugfood
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Big G on November 11, 2005, 10:14:22 AM
Apologize  for the multiple  posts, don't  know how that happened. I'm using my HP ipaq and maybe it was an issue  there ?
Anyway, Am I right in saying that the K4 will still be the speed king of 10k +  and climb rate for 10k +
cheers
Big G
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Big G on November 11, 2005, 12:48:41 PM
Apologize  for the multiple  posts, don't  know how that happened. I'm using my HP ipaq and maybe it was an issue  there ?
Anyway, Am I right in saying that the K4 will still be the speed king of 10k +  and climb rate for 10k +
cheers
Big G
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 11, 2005, 01:12:58 PM
I hate to be the doubter Widewing, but those climb times really don't mean anything.


It would be a better test to go from 125 or 150 and then up.  That is really what climbing is about, not just E retention.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 11, 2005, 04:38:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184


The Spit 16 is friggin amazing.  Not quite as powerful as the spit 14, but a touch more nimbler then it because of clipped wings.

 


The clipped wings gives it a better roll rate at the expense of turn performance.  Not that's its a major reduction but the clipped wings that allow it to roll so well (almost on par with the FW190-A5) does come at a price.



ack-ack
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Widewing on November 11, 2005, 06:27:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I hate to be the doubter Widewing, but those climb times really don't mean anything.


It would be a better test to go from 125 or 150 and then up.  That is really what climbing is about, not just E retention.


E retention is all about drag...

I measure a combination of zoom climb and steady rate, which gives a better balanced look at combat attributes.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 11, 2005, 06:50:49 PM
No, in a combat situation where climb is absolutely needed the two planes would most likely be slow, not going 300 mph.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: 1K3 on November 11, 2005, 07:46:50 PM
man the new 109F is sweeeet!  109F can keep up with spits 8, 9, 14, and 16s in turns.  109F is almost like flying a spit!
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Grits on November 11, 2005, 08:41:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
man the new 109F is sweeeet!  109F can keep up with spits 8, 9, 14, and 16s in turns.  109F is almost like flying a spit!


Placebo, its only a new 3D model.

They did not change the flight models, only the 3D model, otherwise they would have noted it. The same thing happened when the 109's first got remodeled to AHII specs last year. It happened when we got the new 3D models for the P-38's. It happened when we got the new 3D models for the P-47's. It happened when we got the new 3D models for the 190's. Now it has happened with the 109's again. None of those times did HT actually change the flight models, its all in the minds of those who perceive differences. If HT changes a flight model it will be listed in the release notes for that patch, if it is not in the release notes, there is no change.
Title: Any FM changes on spits/109? how does 109K-4, G-14 and Spit XVI fly?
Post by: Widewing on November 11, 2005, 11:52:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, in a combat situation where climb is absolutely needed the two planes would most likely be slow, not going 300 mph.


I took a 109K-4, 25% fuel. I started the stopwatch on throttle up. Time to reach 2,000 feet from wheels stopped on the runway. I then repeated the test with the Spitfire Mk.XVI, also 25% fuel.

Times were as follows:
Bf 109K-4: 44.59 seconds
Spit Mk.XVI: 44.34 seconds

So, starting from zero speed, the Spitfire still wins. Not by much, just .25 seconds, but it gradually pulls away until the it runs out of WEP.

I have flown the Mk.XVI against the 109K-4 several times. I had no trouble closing on the K-4 in a straight climb from 150 mph.

Both the Mk.VIII and Mk.XIV reach 2,000 feet from a stop in a tad over 45 seconds, or 45.09 and 45.12 respectively.

My regards,

Widewing