Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on November 10, 2005, 11:51:35 PM
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For most of the the new additions:
Speed with WEP at 50 feet flying with 25% gas I measured with E6B:
337 mph for Spit Mk.VIII
343 mph for Spit Mk.XVI
359 mph for Spit MK.XIV
369 mph for Bf 109K-4
347 mph for Bf 109G-14
337 mph for Bf 109G-6
304 mph for Spit Mk.Vb
303 mph for Seafire Mk.IIc
Time to Climb, based on 300 mph at 50 feet for start to 10,000 feet are as follows:
Spit Mk.VIII: 1:44.72
Spit Mk.XVI: 1:38.38
Spit Mk.XIV: 1:44.69
Bf 109K-4: 1:43.19
Bf 109G-14: 1:45.72
Bf 109G-6: 1:53.79
Tested acceleration of Spit Mk.XVI. Time to accelerate from 200 mph to 300 mph: 30.88 seconds. For comparison, the Dora does it in 30.83 seconds and the Yak-9U needs 37.40 seconds....
In terms of handling, we flew lots of duels.
Spit VIII against Spit XIV: Spit VIII is superior in roll, turn rate and radius. Climb is dead even, slight edge in level acceleration by SpitXIV. The Mk.VIII won every fight. The SpitXIV is faster, but not as easy to fly.
Spit XVI vs La-5FN... Lavochkin was outclassed....
Spit XVI vs La-7... Better match up than La-5 was, but results generally same. Eventually the La-7 has to bug out or die.
Spit VIII vs Yak-9U... Yak was in trouble if E was equalized. Spit accelerates faster and outclimbs Yak (easily). Turning was also no contest. Yaks should avoid the Mk.VIII unless it has a good E advantage, and then know when to run.
Spit VIII vs La-7... Similar to Yak, but La-7's better acceleration helps. Can't beat Mk.VIII in vertical, can't out-turn it. Must stay fast and avoid blowing E. In short, the La-7 will be lucky to win starting Co-E, Co-alt.
Spit XVI vs Ki-84... Spit climbs better, out-turns the Ki-84 above 175 mph, and can still hang with it below that, although the Ki-84 turns tighter with flaps out, the Spit can use its better climb and acceleration to keep it competitive. Three duels, Ki-84 lost all three, but it wasn't easy. If the Spit was flown flaps out and stall fighting, the Ki-84 would have advantage. Avoid that trap and the Spit's better performance will prevail.
The Spit Mk.Vb and Seafire Mk.IIc are once again dogs... Just as agile, but not as good in vertical and considerably slower.
Two bugs noticed:
SpitXVI sheds wings under moderate loads, not as rugged as the Mk.VIII in that regard.
109G-14, you can break off the tail if you bounce the tail wheel too hard. Other 109s do not do this.
The Spit Mk.IX just became a hanger queen....
Finally, unperk the SpitXIV and put that perk on the Spit XVI, which will surely be over-used (and it's a monster to boot).
My regards,
Widewing
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All the Spits I have tested shed their wings easily. That would be Mk VIII, Mk IX and Mk XVI.
This seems odd as Spits did not have a reputation for doing so.
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Thanks for the lowdown widewing!:aok
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109s doesnt even break a wing... thats weird
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Hmmm. Turned Combat Trim on and the wings didn't break anymore. I wonder if Spit wings were always this weak? I haven't flown them much since I turned Combat Trim off permanently after flying the Ki-84 a lot.
I did fly the Mk XIV a bit after HTC lowered the perk price and I never shed any wings on it. I don't know.
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Offline they seem fine with combat trim off. I have pulled blackout turns with the 16, wings stay on. Dove at 500+ TAS, no probs.
Arena bug? stick config troubles?
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I've ripped the wings off online and offline.
Dive to 350, roll to the side and pull hard on the stick. It'll grown a bit and then the wings'll pop off.
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hmmm 109s dont even do that, im crying foul!
i tried to break a wing in 109s, nothing happens, just like the new P-38s
u can break p51 and 190s wings but u have to be above 400mph
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Karnak, how excited are you about the XVI?
The only way I could reproduce your problem was to carry 2 bombs on the wings bud :)
Same with the VIII, only with a center bomb will the wings rip off under high-g.
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The Mk XVI performs very well, but I am not a fan of clipped Spits.
The Mk VIII is much more my kind of Spit. It was the least likely for us to get and it was the one I wanted most really.
As to the wing ripping, I don't know what to say. I wonder if there is some factor related to the system AH2 is being run on. My system is very similar to Kev's.
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Uhm, have you guys checked the "unrippable wings" option in the "flying" preferences?
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i'm a sucker, I looked!!!!! :)
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"hmmm 109s dont even do that, im crying foul!
i tried to break a wing in 109s, nothing happens, just like the new P-38s"
So what? They have quite differnt sized wings and their rigidity is obviously different, too.
Or is the Spitfire's wing magically more durable despite of its size?!?
-C+
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I took the spit 14 out against all the Spit 16's. Maybe those people just don't know how to handle a Spit, but the 14 dominated the 16's.
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Originally posted by Charge
"hmmm 109s dont even do that, im crying foul!
i tried to break a wing in 109s, nothing happens, just like the new P-38s"
So what? They have quite differnt sized wings and their rigidity is obviously different, too.
Or is the Spitfire's wing magically more durable despite of its size?!?
-C+
They didn't rip them off. Only time that became an issue was when they first started sticking bombs on the IXs and during pullout if the bomb didn;t come off some shed wings from the extra weight and stress.
They didn't pull them off turning or diving.
That being said, I didn't notice that at all last night flying either the VIII or XVI.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I took the spit 14 out against all the Spit 16's. Maybe those people just don't know how to handle a Spit, but the 14 dominated the 16's.
And it should handle the XVI. People keep wanting to make the XVI a monster because the number is higher then 14. If it's a 16 it must be better right?
lol again, nothing more then an LFIX with an American made Packard Merlin 266 in it instead of a Rolls Royce Merlin 66. They came off the production line together. It was only the engine that determined if it was listed as a 9 or 16.
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Spits ripped wings on me too in offline testing - just dive back to field after pinging drones, pull back full, and *poof*.
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I have been online and offline, and with no bombs, I cannot pull the wings off. No matter what I try. Pulled some wicked high-g blackouts, but the wings stayed on. Weird.
With bombs, yup, a hard high g turn takes em off.
I have all "flight options" unchecked, for info.
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I use combat trim and auto-take-off, I think them's the only options I leave on.
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The wings come off with sudden moves and damage that I've seen. If you have a little bit of damage, you better not jerk the stick.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And it should handle the XVI. People keep wanting to make the XVI a monster because the number is higher then 14. If it's a 16 it must be better right?
lol again, nothing more then an LFIX with an American made Packard Merlin 266 in it instead of a Rolls Royce Merlin 66. They came off the production line together. It was only the engine that determined if it was listed as a 9 or 16.
Yup, people see G-14 or Spit XVI and their assumption is bigger numer designation better plane. I mean XVI is greater then IX isn't it?
You haven't seen 'perk the G-14' mostly because of the K-4. But folks have already made some nutty claims like:
'The G-14 outperforms the old G-10!!!'
I wonder what they expected from an LF.IX / XVI? The assumptions they made based on the AHs Spit F.IX will keep them confused for some time. Eventually, maybe enough of them will grasp the fact that its basically a '43 aircraft, just a really good one.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And it should handle the XVI. People keep wanting to make the XVI a monster because the number is higher then 14. If it's a 16 it must be better right?
lol again, nothing more then an LFIX with an American made Packard Merlin 266 in it instead of a Rolls Royce Merlin 66. They came off the production line together. It was only the engine that determined if it was listed as a 9 or 16.
I dueled sumguy last night. He was in a SpitXIV, I was in a SpitVIII. In short, the Mk.XIV was pwned.... Acceleration advantage goes to the Mk.XIV, but not by much. Climb is dead equal (tested both online and offline). However, the Mk.VIII turns better in both directions and rolls a bit better as well. The only advantage of the Mk.XIV is its speed, and speed often isn't enough. Moreover, it's only 20 mph faster on the deck. You need to be pretty high to have the Mk.XIV really shine.
As to the Mk.XVI, it IS a monster. Fastest climber in the game, rolls almost as fast as a 190, accelerates like a Dora and turns as well as the Mk.XIV (each claim supported by actual testing too). Add to that; a mix of Hispanos and .50 BMGs and you have one of the top 3 MA dogfighters, perked or otherwise.
If gets overused (a real possibility), I'd expect it to be perked like the F4U-1C. However, we're not at that point in time as of yet.
Besides, I lean towards the Mk.VIII myself.
My regards,
Widewing
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People have got to be aware that the old Spit balance with the Spit V being the best Merlin Spit in AH had to be wrong, right? Did people really think that the Spit, with it's vaunted reputation as being among the three or four best WWII fighters, never progressed beyond the mediocre performance of the 1942 Spit Vc and Spit F.IX we had before AH v2.06 came out?
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Originally posted by Widewing
I dueled sumguy last night. He was in a SpitXIV, I was in a SpitVIII. In short, the Mk.XIV was pwned.... Acceleration advantage goes to the Mk.XIV, but not by much. Climb is dead equal (tested both online and offline). However, the Mk.VIII turns better in both directions and rolls a bit better as well. The only advantage of the Mk.XIV is its speed, and speed often isn't enough. Moreover, it's only 20 mph faster on the deck. You need to be pretty high to have the Mk.XIV really shine.
As to the Mk.XVI, it IS a monster. Fastest climber in the game, rolls almost as fast as a 190, accelerates like a Dora and turns as well as the Mk.XIV (each claim supported by actual testing too). Add to that; a mix of Hispanos and .50 BMGs and you have one of the top 3 MA dogfighters, perked or otherwise.
If gets overused (a real possibility), I'd expect it to be perked like the F4U-1C. However, we're not at that point in time as of yet.
Besides, I lean towards the Mk.VIII myself.
My regards,
Widewing
Don't you think that most XIV drivers try and fly it like a Merlin Spit? Last week I was in a Spit V and a guy in an XIV decided to turnfight with me. The second he did that I knew it was over. Spit XIV has to be more dependent on it's speed and acceleration. I think it surprised him that I was turning inside his XIV so easily in a Spit V when it shouldn't have. The lighter the Spit, the better it will turn.
The guys in the CBI that flew VIIIs and transitioned to the XIV had to get past that too.
It was one of the reasons they considered renaming the Griffon Spits something besides Spitfire because in so many ways they were a totally different bird.
I think it's why so many of the vets consider the LFIX the best of the wartime Spits overall as it did many things well whereas the Spit XIV was much more of an E fighter and less of the turn fighter that the Merlin Spits were.
I know I'm biased towards clipped wing Spits, having been a Spit XII fanatic for so many years, so I hate the idea of the XVI being perked as it's as close as I'll get to an XII with the tall tail, clipped wings and low alt performance. By choice I don't fly perked birds, so I'd hate to lose it that way.
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I hope it does not get over used to the point that it ends up perked.
For my part I prefer the Mk VIII, but I am very happy that the Mk XVI made it in as well for people who like the clipped wings like you do Dan. With those two fighters they did a good job of covering both groups of Spit fans.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I hope it does not get over used to the point that it ends up perked.
For my part I prefer the Mk VIII, but I am very happy that the Mk XVI made it in as well for people who like the clipped wings like you do Dan. With those two fighters they did a good job of covering both groups of Spit fans.
These are largely my sentiments as well. I really hope the SpitXVI doesn't get overused. It's impossible to tell until a tour or two go by. New planes get heavy usage at first. Look at the Ki-84 as an example. It is nearly the monster the Mk.XVI is, but it doesn't get a lot of use these days.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Don't you think that most XIV drivers try and fly it like a Merlin Spit?
I know I'm biased towards clipped wing Spits, having been a Spit XII fanatic for so many years, so I hate the idea of the XVI being perked as it's as close as I'll get to an XII with the tall tail, clipped wings and low alt performance. By choice I don't fly perked birds, so I'd hate to lose it that way.
This is why I think the Mk.XIV should be unperked. It is a medium to high altitude fighter. Very fast, agile and dangerous indeed. However, in the MA it must do most of its fighting well below it optimal altitude. Down below 15k it's out of its element.
My concern about the Mk.XVI is that it is ideally suited for the MA, like the La-7 and the Tempest. I'm glad it isn't faster than mid-pack down on the deck, or it would become the newest dweeb ride, like the "LaLa".
If at the end of a couple of tours we find the Mk.XVI with a significantly higher use percentage than the La-7, I'm relatively certain than HTC will perk it, or give it such a low ENY that it will have limited availability when numbers are lopsided. I'm hoping the Mk.VIII will cut into the Mk.XVI's usage. It's really not very far behind the Mk.XVI in speed and climb and does turn somewhat better. Either way, both new Spits are very impressive airplanes, and I'll be enjoying them.
As it is, the Mk.IX just became a hanger queen....
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
This is why I think the Mk.XIV should be unperked. It is a medium to high altitude fighter. Very fast, agile and dangerous indeed. However, in the MA it must do most of its fighting well below it optimal altitude. Down below 15k it's out of its element.
My concern about the Mk.XVI is that it is ideally suited for the MA, like the La-7 and the Tempest. I'm glad it isn't faster than mid-pack down on the deck, or it would become the newest dweeb ride, like the "LaLa".
If at the end of a couple of tours we find the Mk.XVI with a significantly higher use percentage than the La-7, I'm relatively certain than HTC will perk it, or give it such a low ENY that it will have limited availability when numbers are lopsided. I'm hoping the Mk.VIII will cut into the Mk.XVI's usage. It's really not very far behind the Mk.XVI in speed and climb and does turn somewhat better. Either way, both new Spits are very impressive airplanes, and I'll be enjoying them.
As it is, the Mk.IX just became a hanger queen....
My regards,
Widewing
The most noticable difference for me last night flying both the VIII and the XVI was the roll rate. Those clipped wings really helped down low. VIII felt that much heavier in the roll