Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ghi on November 11, 2005, 01:14:49 AM
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Was the best bomber buster in MA, Yep we got K-4, but without gondolas is not eficient,
Wasn't enough room in hangars for G10 ? I flew G14, but doesn't seem to have same climb rate. Lucky bomber pilots!
I see this like a sabotage of axis planes, Why the Spit 14 was not retired, cuz we got 2 new spits also?
G10 was the favoritte ride for a lot of players, it's sad to see it gone!
:cry
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The 109G-10 lives on as a 109G-14 or K-4... hmmmm
I think we need a 109 experten to answer why 109G-10 is replaced with G-14 or K-4. Im confused too
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The Bf109G-10 was replaced by the Bf109K-4. I think mainly because the Bf109G-10 had always been a Bf109K-4, but fudged up to have the 20mm and 20mm gondola options. I think HTC got tired of clueless people begging for a Bf109K-4 when they already had it so they just put in a pure Bf109K-4. The Bf109G-14 was added to fill the huge performance gap between the Bf109G-6 and Bf109K-4.
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The G-10 in AH has always been a k-4. It only had the G-10 name because they allowed a 2cm opiton. Just like other planes were given their correct name (P-47D-30 is now correctly named D-40 etc...) for AH2.
I am a bit puzzled why the K-4 has no gondola option when, historically it did. Read Caldwell, JG26's K-4s were delivered with gondolas ect... They were quickly removed however.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I am a bit puzzled why the K-4 has no gondola option when, historically it did. Read Caldwell, JG26's K-4s were delivered with gondolas ect... They were quickly removed however.
Probably for the bolded reason. HTC seems to want to emphsize the more common combat versions.
The first Spitfire Mk XIVs hac universal wings with two 20mm and four .303s, but that option is now gone. Oddly, despite now having an "e" wing, the Mk XIV also lacks any ordinance capability. Not that it matters as nearly nobody uses perk aircraft for strike missions.
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I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
3cm in the nose is all you need to bag the sexier fighter planes. Leave the dicke Autos alone, they will kill themselves eventually.
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Well the XIV was almost exclusively used for air superiority roles, although it did do Jabo on some occasions. If HTC wants the option off for that reason, I dont see that as a big deal. Like you say, hes looking at real world loadouts not "what could have been" loadouts. Tempest could carry ord as well, but it was never used to do so, and it has no ord in AH.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
Yup, I see it the same way.
Squire,
I agree, that is why I didn't mention it until just now.
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Well, actually our G-10 was a very good buff hunter. The right thing to make a scramble to defend the HQ. In the right hands it was lethal. It was my preferred ride after the C.205.
AFAIK the new G-14 with gondolas hasnt the same performance, as far as speed and ROC are concerned. But I have to check better.
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The removal of the 30mm in G6 and the gondola option on K4 are both unfortunate and unecessary developments and I'd hope to see them changed by HTC..
A cool thing I noticed on 109G6 is the inclusion of the clear head armor with the early heavy framed canopy, thanks for picking up on that one HTC!
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Originally posted by Squire
Well the XIV was almost exclusively used for air superiority roles, although it did do Jabo on some occasions. If HTC wants the option off for that reason, I dont see that as a big deal. Like you say, hes looking at real world loadouts not "what could have been" loadouts. Tempest could carry ord as well, but it was never used to do so, and it has no ord in AH.
Last time I saw the temp in the hanger there was a 2 1k option. Was this removed?
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Musta been thinking of rockets. No, the bomb option is still there for the Temp.
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Originally posted by Squire
Well the XIV was almost exclusively used for air superiority roles, although it did do Jabo on some occasions. If HTC wants the option off for that reason, I dont see that as a big deal. Like you say, hes looking at real world loadouts not "what could have been" loadouts. Tempest could carry ord as well, but it was never used to do so, and it has no ord in AH.
Have you ever come across any photos of ETO based XIVs carrying bombs? When this came up it occured to me I don't think they ever carried bombs. They were always air superiority. The XVIs and LFIXs did the down and dirty bomb carrying work.
Can't find a photo of one that even shows the wing racks like the LFIX/XVI, not even on postwar XIVs. Interesting.....
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I cannot think of any mention of ordnance on Mk XIVs off the top of my head, no.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
I do. I pick one up and butter her up and then make her SQEEEEEEEEL like a piggy :rofl
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Like you say, hes looking at real world loadouts not "what could have been" loadouts.
The same goes for the F-4, only 240 or so F-4/R1s were made, even fewer kept the gondolas out 1800 or so F-4s produced. Or the G-6, only 181 were produced in '43. Out of 12k total G-6 production just 1680 or so were G-6/U4s.
G-6/U4
Produced 1943 : 181
01/1944 : 119
02/1944 : 51
03/1944 : 303
04/1944 : 404
05/1944 : 118
06/1944 : 144
07/1944 : 240
08/1944 : 49
09/1944 : 55
10/1944 : 14
No more '43 scenarios where every G-6 is tooling around with 3cm + gondolas. Same with the F-4. The load outs for the 109 now more representative of what you would run into.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
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imop,G10, was the best german fighter, not only bomber buster,
K-4 with 65 rounds is going to be a hangar queen, like Yak9-T, those big caliber cannos are hard to hit something and the mgs are useless anyway, most players rtb when are out of cannon shells
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looks like 109K-4 will be an elite plane only.
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I wouldn't exactly call the MG useless, ghi. 13mm are slightly larger than US .50 cal (at 12.7mm), and they seem to be able to take some parts off of aircraft when concentrated well. You can also use them to range other aircraft and get them to break off a run-away maneuver. That way they will be put in useful range of that 30mm. I will agree that the spud cannon is hard to aim though... better set convergence out at max, that way the trajectory drop isn't as pronounced (when it's set to D650, it won't have dropped as much by D300, whereas if set to D300 it will have dropped considerably).
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I have been in the G-14 and the K,and they both out perform the G-10.
Maybe if you guys tryed something besides the Ho-N-Go you would see that.:aok
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Originally posted by ghi
Originally posted by Bruno
I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
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imop,G10, was the best german fighter, not only bomber buster,
K-4 with 65 rounds is going to be a hangar queen, like Yak9-T, those big caliber cannos are hard to hit something and the mgs are useless anyway, most players rtb when are out of cannon shells
3cm is 1 shot - 1 kill on any fighter. That's a potential of 65 kills, even if your hit % averages around 10%, that's 6 kills per sortie. 2 to 4 hits to kill a bomber (depending where you hit them) is plenty to down 3 or 4 of them. Comparing it to the 9T is ridiculous. The 9T in no way comes close to the K-4s performance.
fyi,
Late war 109s were not designed for 'bomber busting' anyway.
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I have been in the G-14 and the K,and they both out perform the G-10.
The G-10 that had AH had before the last patch has the same performance as the current K-4. The previous G-10 was a K-4 in all but name and a few load outs options (2cm, Gondolas etc...). All they did was fix the name and load outs to be more representative of what you would have seen at the time.
The G-14 is just a G-6 + MW-50 (WEP). Without WEP the G-14 will perform just like the G-6 on MIL power. On WEP, below FTH, is where the G-14 out performs the G-6. It doesn't perform better then the old G-10.
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In which movie does the G-14 outperform the old G-10?
The 13mm are useless. 13mm larger than a 12,7mm? Yes, perhaps in diameter. Have you ever seen an allied .50 cartridge close to a german 13mm?
Late 109 not used as buff hunter in the real thing? Surely it is less unhistorical than those "aces" that:
- use Typhoons (et al) to kamikaze on fields and CVs,
- use big level bombers to dive bomb,
- drop tanks just before the merge, then dogfight with 25% fuel and then ditch if needed,
I mean: the whole arena is full of planes used "unhistorically".
Pulling away the G-10 and his gondolas took off a good chance to intercept heavy bombers. The K-4's theoretical 60 fighter and 10 buff kills are .... well, you can imagine what.
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Late 109 not used as buff hunter in the real thing? Surely it is less unhistorical than those "aces" that:
Who said the K-4 can't attack bombers? In AH they will and do. The 3cm is more then enough to bring them down. However, the K-4 is better dog fighter. Gondolas make it less of an effective interceptor and less a dog fighter, They add weight and drag. Climb rate, top speed and acceleration are all adversely affected by the gondolas.
They didn't 'pull away' the G-10, they simply gave it it's correct name. You can argue all you want for a gondola option, as I said JG26's K-4s were delivered with them, but Kurfürst is a fighter. Putting gondolas on a fighter is just wrong...:p
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Sure, the K-4 is an exceptional dogfighter, even better than the G-10. I'm happy to have it.
What I'm saying is that the G-10 with gondolas was an exceptional buff hunter. And I like buff hunting in the MA. From initial performance tests (speed, acceleration and ROC) the G-14 with gondolas seems much inferior.
No, I dont mix dogfighting with buff hunting ;)
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Originally posted by Bruno
Who said the K-4 can't attack bombers? In AH they will and do. The 3cm is more then enough to bring them down. However, the K-4 is better dog fighter. Gondolas make it less of an effective interceptor and less a dog fighter, They add weight and drag. Climb rate, top speed and acceleration are all adversely affected by the gondolas.
They didn't 'pull away' the G-10, they simply gave it it's correct name. You can argue all you want for a gondola option, as I said JG26's K-4s were delivered with them, but Kurfürst is a fighter. Putting gondolas on a fighter is just wrong...:p
And doing what makes sense for the game is the right way to go. The Spit VIII, IX, XVI and XIV are limited to the 30 gallon slipper tank. You could argue that they also used the 45 and 90 gallon tanks, but that's silly in terms of game use other then to 'game the game'.
K4 was a dogfighter. Did it ever carry gondolas? Yes. Does it make sense in the overall? As bruno points out, no. It's a dogfighter. You want to hunt buffs, take a 190.
To model every possible alternative is overkill. Be thankful we have as many options as we have. The crowd at HTC is doing just fine that way and they also clearly are taking the input from the player base and making the best possible decisions so that their time and resources are used to the best overall advantage of the game itself.
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HTC is doing an excellent work.
The K-4 is an excellent dogfighter. But not a buff hunter.
They pull away a good buff hunter already present in the planeset with no apparent reason. Solution: put gondolas on the K-4.
The G-14 with gondolas doesnt seem as good as the G-10.
We, axis players, need a buff hunter. Use the FW190? :lol Boy, we are not in the real thing where B-17 where chased and downed even by twin engined fighter at altitude. We are in the Main. Take up a 190A-8, get to 25K and then chase buff in the Main. Good luck :rolleyes:
All clear?
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I think that removing the 30mm from the G6 and the gondolas from the F4/K4 will make those rides less attractive in the MA.
What I think will happen is that the use of 109s will decrease in the MA.
I have been flying the F4 and the G6 with the gondolas. My philosophy is that it is much easier to turn with any bogey after you remove his wing. And in that scenario, gondolas don't matter.
I took the Spit 16 up, and if they don't perk that puppy, screw it, I'm going from being a 109 pilot to being a Spit pilot. HT chooses the plane set options, but I get to choose the plane.
I seriously doubt that the G6 or F4 are going to be that competative anymore in an arena full of Spit16's. That Spit16 will probably replace the L Gay 7 as the ride of choice.
I am really getting tired of trying to be competative in something other than the uber rides. The 109F4/G6 used to be a nice balance of firepower and maneuverability in a ride that wasn't just for newbie yank and banker's. Take away the firepower, and now you just have a German Yak with a decent fuel loadout.
Since in all reality, no one gives a rat's behind about what my score is, or in what plane I got that score, why not fly Spits?
I think I'll just join the dweebs :)
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Originally posted by gatt
They pull away a good buff hunter already present in the planeset with no apparent reason.
"apparent reason" is 109K-4 with gondolas wasnt used wide enough to keep them in ord's list.
Want LW buff intercepter? Take Me262 or Me163.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I think that removing the 30mm from the G6 and the gondolas from the F4/K4 will make those rides less attractive in the MA.
What I think will happen is that the use of 109s will decrease in the MA.
I have been flying the F4 and the G6 with the gondolas. My philosophy is that it is much easier to turn with any bogey after you remove his wing. And in that scenario, gondolas don't matter.
I took the Spit 16 up, and if they don't perk that puppy, screw it, I'm going from being a 109 pilot to being a Spit pilot. HT chooses the plane set options, but I get to choose the plane.
I seriously doubt that the G6 or F4 are going to be that competative anymore in an arena full of Spit16's. That Spit16 will probably replace the L Gay 7 as the ride of choice.
I am really getting tired of trying to be competative in something other than the uber rides. The 109F4/G6 used to be a nice balance of firepower and maneuverability in a ride that wasn't just for newbie yank and banker's. Take away the firepower, and now you just have a German Yak with a decent fuel loadout.
Since in all reality, no one gives a rat's behind about what my score is, or in what plane I got that score, why not fly Spits?
I think I'll just join the dweebs :)
So why not take what you like and fly it to the best of it's abilities and yours and see how you do?
I spend the majority of my time in a 38G and that's not going to change. It starts to sound like score and k/d are the higher priority. If you like a particular 109 variant, make yourself the best 109 driver out there. You may die more against the 'uber' rides, but the pleasure comes from beating those guys too in a less then uber ride. Who cares what the rest of the AH world thinks? :)
Nothing feels better then knocking down an LA7 or a N1K in a 38G. It means to some degree that I outflew the pilot in that better performing bird.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So why not take what you like and fly it to the best of it's abilities and yours and see how you do?
I spend the majority of my time in a 38G and that's not going to change. It starts to sound like score and k/d are the higher priority. If you like a particular 109 variant, make yourself the best 109 driver out there. You may die more against the 'uber' rides, but the pleasure comes from beating those guys too in a less then uber ride. Who cares what the rest of the AH world thinks? :)
Nothing feels better then knocking down an LA7 or a N1K in a 38G. It means to some degree that I outflew the pilot in that better performing bird.
That is exactly the reason I've been flying the 109F4 for the last 7 or 8 months. I've kind of migrated to the G6 and G10 a bit. And I take the 190D9 when you just can't survive in a 109. I also like the Hog F4U-1.
But it isn't "score" I am looking for, I just hate getting shot down.
I used to fly the 190A8, freaking awesome ride, but in those days we didn't have the 'kiddie trainer" icons that told you the plane type, so most people thought you were a Dora. After the icon change, the LaLas knew you weren't a Dora, so they would run you down, and the Spits following him would kill you. So I went to the 109's to enable me to fight the Spits.
Now we have a major impacting change, so it would appear that the next logical move would be to go from the 109's to the Spits.
As the game changes, you have to adapt with the changes.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
You want to hunt buffs, take a 190.
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How many bombers at high alt /HQ raids did you shoot down in Fw190s ?
maybe in TA152, but all others 190s are out performed by buffs at high alt,
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Originally posted by ghi
How many bombers at high alt /HQ raids did you shoot down in Fw190s ?
maybe in TA152, but all others 190s are out performed by buffs at high alt,
Buffs usually shoot me down :)
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What I'm saying is that the G-10 with gondolas was an exceptional buff hunter
As Erich Hartmann says,when the enemy fills your windscreen you cannot possibly miss.
It only takes a couple of rounds too kill a bomber with the Mk108.
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I'm confused. Was there a real life G-10? Why do we not have that one anymore?
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The real Bf109G-10 was a mishmash of different configurations ranging from a bit better then our Bf109G-14 to just a hair under the Bf109K-4.
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Any idea why we don't have one or more of the G-10 varients? Simply redundant?
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I don't know specifically, but given the Bf109G-10s entered service in 10-44, the same month as the Bf109K-4, I'd bet it was redundantacy that did it in.
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The real Bf109G-10 was a mishmash of different configurations ranging from a bit better then our Bf109G-14 to just a hair under the Bf109K-4.
I think the spit flyer's and the other than LW flyer's should stick too those planes.The 109 G-14 will dive at up too 550MPH with out compression,as will the rest of the 109's.At 550 MPH the G-10 would lock up and compress,now they do not.
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i am glad the k4 is in the game with no 20mm or gondola option. now you will have to fly it like a man, with 30mm. the skin or textures look a little fuzzy though. is that my gfx settings?
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Originally posted by g00b
Any idea why we don't have one or more of the G-10 varients? Simply redundant?
It would have been redundant with the K-4 (both the G-10 and K-4 have same DB605D engine and entered service 10-44). The K-4 had the better top speed though. I argued to keep the G-10 with a fixed FM to represent the AS engined 109s (G-14/AS, G-6/AS). The G-14/AS saw service in June/Juli '44 same as the G-14.
The AS engine (DB605AS for the G-6/AS; or DB605ASM for the G-14/AS; M = MW-50) has the larger supercharger from the DB603 and gave better performance at higher altitudes but was slower down low. This is the same supercharger that's on the DB605D (G-10 / K-4 engine).
As such a G-14/AS would have been slower then the current G-14 down low but almost as fast as the real G-10* up high. I had hoped to keep the G-10 with 'fixed' FM. Get the G-14 and perk the K-4.
But the G-14 addition is good enough!!!
*real G-10 performance numbers; G-14/AS - 425mph or so top speed compared to 415mph or so for the non-AS G-14 (what is in AH now) and a higher FTH as well.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The 109 G-14 will dive at up too 550MPH with out compression,as will the rest of the 109's. At 550 MPH the G-10 would lock up and compress,now they do not.
Then I have a different flight model on my game. My 109s lock up at just over 450mph, and if you don't get the throttle cut back and bleed speed with the rudder, you eat dirt. In a dive, I am constantly checking my speed in the 109. I think compression has killed me almost as much as bullets.
I will try the G14, if it does in fact handle at speed, it may be worth looking at.
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So 1700 Bf109G6 had the 30mm cannon and HTC removes that option.... Thats just wrong.
And saying that 65 rounds means its 65 kills is utterly false reasoning as very few people are able to hit well with that gun in a 109.
The 30mm should be put back in the G6.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
As Erich Hartmann says,when the enemy fills your windscreen you cannot possibly miss.
It only takes a couple of rounds too kill a bomber with the Mk108.
problem is, with buff guns never jumping from turbulence or recoil and pings possible from 2k from a bomber you wont live long enough to fill your windscreen
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nah, i like the weapons diversity for 109s. keep some *as is* but
* leave the 30mm option only to 109G-14 and 109K-4
* 109G-6 needs the extra 200 rounds of 20mm ammo back
i really like the weapons diversity for 109s and spits
109s
E-4 - 2x MG-17, 2x MG-FF
F-4 - 2x MG-17, 1x MG-151
G-2 - 2x MG-17, 1x MG-151 plus GONDOLAS and bombs for fuselage
G-6 - 2x MG-131, 1x MG-151 plus GONDOLAS, WGr-21 rockets, 1 bomb for fuselage
G-14 - 2x MG-131, 1x MG-151 OR MK-108 plus GONDOLAS, WGr-21 rockets, 1 bomb for fuselage
K-4 - 2x MG-131, 1x MK-108
SPITS
mk1 - 8x 303
mk5 - 4x 303, 2x hispano (120 rounds)
mk9 - 4x 303, 2x hispano
mk14 - 2x 12.7, 2x hispano
mk8 - 4x 303, 2x hispano plus GP bomb for fuselage
mk16 - 2x 12.7, 2x hispano plus wing bombs and rockets, fuselage bombs
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So 1700 Bf109G6 had the 30mm cannon and HTC removes that option.... Thats just wrong.
That's 1700 out of 12000 over a 2-3 year production run...
And saying that 65 rounds means its 65 kills is utterly false reasoning as very few people are able to hit well with that gun in a 109.
The 30mm should be put back in the G6.
I didn't say that, I said:
3cm is 1 shot - 1 kill on any fighter. That's a potential of 65 kills, even if your hit % averages around 10%, that's 6 kills per sortie. 2 to 4 hits to kill a bomber (depending where you hit them) is plenty to down 3 or 4 of them.
The G-6 is fine with out the 3cm. Hopefully, Pyro will add the full load out for the G-6 (200 rounds for the center line and 140 rounds per gondola). The G-14 is just a G-6 with MW-50 and has 3cm. In the main just fly it, it's the same plane as the G-6 late but with better "WEP".
The G-6 will get most of its use in events, scenarios and in ToD. Especially in '43 events. As such there were only 181 /U4s produced. Most G-6s had MG151/2cm, the /U4 variant doesn't represent the typical G-6 that the allies faced regularly in combat.
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Originally posted by Bruno
That's 1700 out of 12000 over a 2-3 year production run...
I didn't say that, I said:
The G-6 is fine with out the 3cm. Hopefully, Pyro will add the full load out for the G-6 (200 rounds for the center line and 140 rounds per gondola). The G-14 is just a G-6 with MW-50 and has 3cm. In the main just fly it, it's the same plane as the G-6 late but with better "WEP".
The G-6 will get most of its use in events, scenarios and in ToD. Especially in '43 events. As such there were only 181 /U4s produced. Most G-6s had MG151/2cm, the /U4 variant doesn't represent the typical G-6 that the allies faced regularly in combat.
You seem to make having more realistic scenarios in the CT as a reason not to have all historical loadouts available in the Main Arena. The logic just doesn't flow.
The MA is not really very historical other than it uses WWII type of aircraft.
If the G6 had 30mms and gondolas, there is no logical reason the main arena shouldn't have those options. Now a historical scenario, the CT or an event is a different story.
I think we need as much diversity in planesets as possible to encourage a more diverse experience in MA game play.
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Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope). I think its the reason why its important to have *historical loadouts*
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I think we need as much diversity in planesets as possible to encourage a more diverse experience in MA game play.
I don't care anything about the main, it won't ever get any 'better' then what it is now. Besides, the G-14 is a far better main arena plane then the G-6, 3cm or not... They both have gondolas.
Diversity means nothing in the main, it never has. There will always be a handful of planes everyone flies because they are the 'bestest'. Folks have already began calling for the Spit XVI to be perked. It seems to me that when ever they introduce a plane to the main that will actually have an impact, other folks cry about it. It's either 'poor me all my fav planes are porked' or 'look at all those dweebs flying those dweeb planes'.
Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope).
ToD won't ever replace the main...
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Originally posted by 1K3
Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope).
That's a big fat negative. ToD is for a completely different audience than the players that currently populate the MA. Once the "new" wears off, I would be shocked if more than 5% of current MA players stay in ToD.
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problem is, with buff guns never jumping from turbulence or recoil and pings possible from 2k from a bomber you wont live long enough to fill your windscreen
Look me up in the TA sometime i'll show you some different attack angles.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope). I think its the reason why its important to have *historical loadouts*
And you base this on what assumption?
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Originally posted by Bruno
That's 1700 out of 12000 over a 2-3 year production run...
The G-6 will get most of its use in events, scenarios and in ToD. Especially in '43 events. As such there were only 181 /U4s produced. Most G-6s had MG151/2cm, the /U4 variant doesn't represent the typical G-6 that the allies faced regularly in combat.
2 or 3 year production run? Thats simply incorrect, G6 enterd production in march 43 and was out of production by fall of 1944, Barely 1.5 years.
1700 Bf109G6 had the 30mm gun thats a huge number, no other variant in AH with that much production has been removed.
It makes no sense.
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Originally posted by Bruno
3cm is 1 shot - 1 kill on any fighter.
This is simply not true anymore.
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Originally posted by 1K3
The 109G-10 lives on as a 109G-14 or K-4... hmmmm
I think we need a 109 experten to answer why 109G-10 is replaced with G-14 or K-4. Im confused too
Because the old G10 was WRONG. BTW, the G10 was my mainstay for a while... but I prefer the K4. Never used those stikin gondies anyways. Learn to aim.
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Originally posted by gatt
HTC is doing an excellent work.
The K-4 is an excellent dogfighter. But not a buff hunter.
They pull away a good buff hunter already present in the planeset with no apparent reason. Solution: put gondolas on the K-4.
The G-14 with gondolas doesnt seem as good as the G-10.
We, axis players, need a buff hunter. Use the FW190? :lol Boy, we are not in the real thing where B-17 where chased and downed even by twin engined fighter at altitude. We are in the Main. Take up a 190A-8, get to 25K and then chase buff in the Main. Good luck :rolleyes:
All clear?
I fail to see your point... Lean the Luftwobbles before you make another dumb comment like this please.
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Originally posted by Bruno
3cm is 1 shot - 1 kill on any fighter. That's a potential of 65 kills,
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Realy, ?! are going to shoot 30mm on .salvo 1 ? Come and vulch me, i want to see if you can fire the 30mm, 65 times one by one:)
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Thats simply incorrect, G6 enterd production in march 43 and was out of production by fall of 1944, Barely 1.5 years.
The G-6 entered squadron service with II./JG 77, II./JG 27 and II./JG 51 in February 1943 (Prien & Rodeike).
Production began some months prior (deployment an production are not the same thing). In late fall '42 production began on the G-6, by the end of the year it was in 'full production'. Production stopped by fall '44 like you said...
less the 3 but more then 1.5 years...
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Originally posted by Scrap
I fail to see your point... Lean the Luftwobbles before you make another dumb comment like this please.
Oh, I was only saying that we now have a less effective buff hunter. But probably your too dumb to understand :D
Edit: Nevermind, judging from your stats you dont even know whats buff hunting
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This is simply not true anymore.
I haven't had any issues...
Realy, ?! are going to shoot 30mm on .salvo 1 ? Come and vulch me, i want to see if you can fire the 30mm, 65 times one by one
I can fire 1 shot at a time, (I made a film but it doesn't show, no flash, tracer or the counter going down...) but you definitely can fire one shot at a time.
That's here-nor-there what I said was:
That's a potential of 65 kills, even if your hit % averages around 10%, that's 6 kills per sortie.
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Oh, I was only saying that we now have a less effective buff hunter. But probably your too dumb to understand
If you can't shoot down Bombers with a single Mk108 then you are the one too dumb to understand.
Nevermind, judging from your stats you dont even know whats buff hunting
Just because someone's stats are low or high doesn't mean a thing.If you can't shoot down a bomber with a single Mk108 then i know Scrap will hand your arse any way you want him too.
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Seen someone said the K-4 doesnt have Sufficient Fire Power, a LIE i am in love with the K-4 not only is it an EXCELLENT bomber ESCORT at 30k feet the climb rate is outrageous you can climb 20k feet in a matter of minutes, and its 600 13mm and the 30cm are well fighter killers just get 400 out and wait till they are dead ahead or in a turn pop a 30 right into there wing and watch that wing dissapear. The 109-K4 is the best 109 i have flown in a long time =]. Not to mention the Perfomance at all Altitudes. it gets a bit slow at climbing when u hit 30k but hey it rocks your socks! Escorted a bomber he was at 22k , Me and a Squadie was at 30k in 2 109-K4s we went over a HOT airfield and passed nearly 20 Planes and not 1 of them dared come near him because we had the Advantage =]. In other words im trying to point out that the 109-K4 is SWEET. If you havent flown it FLY IT.
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Originally posted by outbreak
at 30k feet the climb rate is outrageous you can climb 20k feet in a matter of minutes
why would you want to fly at 50k?
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Originally posted by outbreak
Me and a Squadie was at 30k in 2 109-K4s we went over a HOT airfield and passed nearly 20 Planes and not 1 of them dared come near him because we had the Advantage =]
LMAO...thats probably because the 20 guys you passed over were at 3k or less and knew you were a harmless alt-monkey who would never risk coming down to where the fight was, and therefore were less of a threat to them than the trees. :aok
To stay on topic, yeah the K-4 is good, as was the G-10 it was called before.
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LMAO...thats probably because the 20 guys you passed over were at 3k or less and knew you were a harmless alt-monkey who would never risk coming down to where the fight was, and therefore were less of a threat to them than the trees
Maybe one day those same people that "fight" down on the deck will realize that the plane they are flying,fly's alot better at a higher altitude.
Everybody cryin cuz dey cant get dey furball on,or a La-7 ho-n-go'ed me.
No La-7's above 15-K,why not furball at a higher alt?The noobs that everyone complains about not check 6ing them,ramming them,stealing thier kills,none of those people are smart enough too climb up above 5 -K,and if they did it would be over to quick.
Just my 2 cents
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1st of all i wasnt at 50k i forgot my . i was at 30k feet and i was saying that the K4 climbs outgrageously fast, 2nd The cons where at about 18-20k feet not at 3k they didnt dare touch the bombers because i mean hey when u got high alt Escorts id be scared to =]. And yes i like to fly at 30k in the K4 it is awsome that thing manuvers like a beauty.
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I was merely pointing out why those guys below him didnt climb up to him as he flew over a "hot" base. He seemed to think it was his 109K they were avoiding, and I corrected that mistake. I do, however, have opinions on alt-monkeys:
Altitude is a crutch for the skillless. 98 out of 100 (but not all) people that fly at 30k dont know how to use an altitude advantage and do so because they can avoid the risk involved in a fight. The very rare times I do get to 30k for some odd reason, I find the quality of the fight those astronauts put up is rather lacking no matter what plane they are in.
Again to stay on topic, flown with some skill, the K-4 (just like the G-10 before it) is an outstanding "in the weeds" furballer. Its unfortunate more dont use it for that instead of cherrypicking.
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Actual test show superiority in every aspect to the target 109. Based on factual data the 109 was clearly a better airframe and would be hard to improve in the current configuration. According to recorded data the rates of performance could not match the ratio of development time/cost. So it's time as a front line asset was dwindling.
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The MA is boring. Same thing day after day. I support any move for TOD to replace the MA as the dominant arena. Aces High is long overdue for a change in gameplay. New graphics are great but they should be a secondary priority.
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Maybe one day those same people that "fight" down on the deck will realize that the plane they are flying,fly's alot better at a higher altitude.
Everybody cryin cuz dey cant get dey furball on,or a La-7 ho-n-go'ed me.
No La-7's above 15-K,why not furball at a higher alt?The noobs that everyone complains about not check 6ing them,ramming them,stealing thier kills,none of those people are smart enough too climb up above 5 -K,and if they did it would be over to quick.
So, what are you gonna do if a La-7 meets you at 15k+ , mingles a bit and then gets disadvantaged, and then runs to deck, where he's got the advantage in speed, climb, accel, maneuverability and etc?
Fights go downwards, not upwards. A superior climber like the 109 can go upwards to find temporary shelter or tactical advantage, but what goes up, must come down sooner or later. Unless there is a specific reason why planes should fly high, the MA is, and always will be, a low-alt slugfest.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
If you can't shoot down Bombers with a single Mk108 then you are the one too dumb to understand.
Just because someone's stats are low or high doesn't mean a thing.If you can't shoot down a bomber with a single Mk108 then i know Scrap will hand your arse any way you want him too.
No one said the Mk108 is not enuff to down a bomber. True is that a single Mk108 is for sure not the best weapon to hunt bombers, be effective and stay alive. Boy, you look pretty dumb.
BTW, I'm not used to personal attacks.
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Originally posted by ghi
imop,G10, was the best german fighter, not only bomber buster,
K-4 with 65 rounds is going to be a hangar queen, like Yak9-T, those big caliber cannos are hard to hit something and the mgs are useless anyway, most players rtb when are out of cannon shells [/B]
I don't agree, in the G10 and former G6 I always only used 30mm and no gondolas, takes some time to learn to hit with the cannon but it is very rewarding when you know how to aim with it.
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Originally posted by scspook
The MA is boring. Same thing day after day. I support any move for TOD to replace the MA as the dominant arena. Aces High is long overdue for a change in gameplay. New graphics are great but they should be a secondary priority.
Damn I agree with that!
Unfortunatly, I fear ToD, when it is finally released, will be nothing more then a bigger, more development expensive CT with almost no players in it.
Take a look at the pressent AH community, it's not a community that has their goals on realistic gameplay. It's a community that rather spends time flaming eacother online and in the forums while finding or flying in the biggest possible gang against the lowest possible enemy numbers.
I only hope I am wrong about ToD.
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Didn't read all the replies but i will give a schort history of the 109.
The Bf109-G10 was not a straight modell. It was a modification of the 109-G5 and 109-G6 and some others.
The main modification was the "Erla-Haube" and the DB605-D engine with 1.800 PS (PS is a bit more than HP).
It had different weapon-sets and ofcourse u could mount gondolas.
The G14 was more a straight line than the G10, but even on this Modell you find different shapes. The enigine of the G14 had 1.475 PS and so it was not as fast as the G10.
The last serie was the K, K stands for "Kurfuerst".
The 109-K4 was equiped with 2 machineguns and 1 MK108 30mm cannon.
Later versions like the K6 had Gondolas.
So the G10 in AH was what it said. A bunch of modified G5's and G6's with the DB605-D engine.
The 109-G6 was never equiped with a MK108 30mm cannon. Only the version 109-G6/R4 could carry 2 MK108 as gondolas.
HTC did now all well and the versions are like they where historical.
I like it, keep it HTC.
NghtFire
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No one said the Mk108 is not enuff to down a bomber. True is that a single Mk108 is for sure not the best weapon to hunt bombers, be effective and stay alive
Plenty of "REAL LIFE" german pilots shot down bombers with single Mk108,maybe they sould have landed more kills so they could get their name up in lights,because that is what it's all about.
So, what are you gonna do if a La-7 meets you at 15k+
That's one dead La-7 at 15 -K,and let him runaway that's what they are good at.Ever wonder why there was very few Russian Aces?Prolly the same reason why Erich Hartmannn would shoot 4-6 of them down at a time.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Prolly the same reason why Erich Hartmannn would shoot 4-6 of them down at a time.
Hartmann usually got one kill and RTB, he rarely had more than one, and I have never heard of 4-6 in one sortie.
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I personally don't think the K4 will be a hangar queen, IF people actually get in and try the thing. I got stuck into a couple of giant furballs with numbers heavily against us, and I was flying a K4. I had quite the opposite experience of what I was expecting, managing to get get kills and leave the fight at will, thanks to the magical ROC, and startling acceleration in a shallow dive with WEP on.
It feels faster and nicer than the G10 used to, but I'm no 109 experten.
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Originally posted by Grits
Hartmann usually got one kill and RTB, he rarely had more than one, and I have never heard of 4-6 in one sortie.
He plenty of multi-kill sorties:
193 26.2.1944 9:08 P-39 9./JG 52 29 381: at 3.000m
194 26.2.1944 09:16 P-39 9./JG 52 29 384: at 3.000m
195 26.2.1944 11:45 P-39 9./JG 52 29 524: at 4.000m
196 26.2.1944 11:48 P-39 9./JG 52 29 521: at 3.000m
197 26.2.1944 11:53 P-39 9./JG 52 29 514: at 3.000m
198 26.2.1944 11:58 P-39 9./JG 52 29 524: at 2.500m
199 26.2.1944 12:03 P-39 9./JG 52 29 524: at 2.000m
200 26.2.1944 14:40 P-39 9./JG 52 29 552: at 2.500m
201 26.2.1944 14:45 P-39 9./JG 52 29 531: at 3.000m
202 26.2.1944 14:50 P-39 9./JG 52 29 512: at 2.000m
279 22.8.1944 12:20 P-39 9./JG 52 11 274: at 3.000m
280 22.8.1944 12:30 P-39 9./JG 52 11 335: at 2.000m
281 22.8.1944 12:31 P-39 9./JG 52 11 339: at 2.000m
282 22.8.1944 15:17 P-39 9./JG 52 11 411: at 2.000m
283 22.8.1944 15:22 P-39 9./JG 52 11 271: at 1.500m
I can post more but you get the idea...
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Originally posted by Bruno
I can post more but you get the idea...
Was that typical or did he "usually" get one and RTB? Werent you the one that posted the fact that he did not push for more once he got a kill or was it someone else? I know fairly recently there was a thread about LW aces where someone mentioned that his normal tactic was he used his wingman as bait, got a kill, and went home.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope). I think its the reason why its important to have *historical loadouts*
From everything I've read, Tour of Duty will not be a very attractive place.
I just want to furball, screw this TOD stuff, I think HT is wasting time on something that we can do withouth.
Just give me a fun MA to play in.
Historical means nothing to me, especially when you are flying a 190, your wingman is in a Spit, and your other wingman is in a Hog.
And then you bounce a 109 with your 190 as an LA7 tries to save the 109's butt.
Who cares about historical loadouts in a scenario like that?
Give me a break. :(
Oh! And TOD will be released in two weeks. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Historical means nothing to me, especially when you are flying a 190, your wingman is in a Spit, and your other wingman is in a Hog.
That means you would be leaving both of them behind.
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(if Aces High ToD is released today...)
Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.
(hmmmm what a dream come true for those who want to see more people playing in ALLIES vs AXIS match:))
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ToD shall by the design has the different target audience.
Sure MA will stay. It may be even more people in MA when ToD arives (may be not at once, but after couple of months).
Success of ToD will depends on many factors. Despite it development takes so long, we still have high hopes for it, and trust HTC design. If it will be what I want and what I hope for, I will mainly fly it, keeping MA as a training arena. If it won't, I probably will cancel account, because I am burned out with MA and its gameplay model. MA is a great arcade arena, it has a lot of people, lot of good friends, great people, great pilots, often very fun fights, but just after 6 years in a game I simply can't motivate myself to fly seriously in it.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Damn I agree with that!
Unfortunatly, I fear ToD, when it is finally released, will be nothing more then a bigger, more development expensive CT with almost no players in it.
CT is unstructured. Just a correct planeset does not make it historic.
I still think it is quite possible to make it around ~120 people at pick hours. As scenarious shows, stuctured environment can be fun. It also a lot of people who cares about immersion.
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Originally posted by Grits
Was that typical or did he "usually" get one and RTB? Werent you the one that posted the fact that he did not push for more once he got a kill or was it someone else? I know fairly recently there was a thread about LW aces where someone mentioned that his normal tactic was he used his wingman as bait, got a kill, and went home.
Multiple kill sorties weren't typical for any pilot, especially not in the 4-6 range. However, in Hartmann's case he happened to get numerous multi-kill sorties (2-3 range), at least enough of them that it wasn't 'unusual'.
His claims for 26.2.1944 represent 3 sorties for a total of 10 P-39 claims.
I never said Hartman only got 1 kill at a time. In the past I have said he was what the main would consider 'timid', 'Hit and run'. However he would hit hard, especially into tight formations. He wouldn't stick around to 'dogfight to the death'. See the times on his claims, minutes apart then nothing until the next sortie. In the other thread about Hartmann I said that his exact kill claims / types claimed / totals were hard to narrow down.
FYI:
ToD will be a continuous ongoing war in that AI is there to fill slots. Since ToD is mission oriented you don't need an arena of 500 players, you just need enough to make a mission fun. I don't care much about fighting AI myself but we can choose the mission and times we fly. When their are enough human players in a mission then I will fly. The CT is different in that 90% of the day there are less the 5 people in the arena. Not many will head there because there will be nothing to do. ToD will at least have AI to put up some semblance of a fight.
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Ahh...I remembered it wrong, thanks.
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Amen IK3, I hope they do that.
How about "Main Arena"=ToD
Then "Furball Arena" under that.
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Originally posted by 1K3
(if Aces High ToD is released today...)
Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.
(hmmmm what a dream come true for those who want to see more people playing in ALLIES vs AXIS match:))
It's not a very nice thing to say, but pay your money like we do, or STFU about closing the arena you're too cheap to pay for. I like the MA, I don't give a rat's bellybutton about H2H. ToD won't replace the MA; it's not intended too. It'll give the scenario people, and the box sim crowd, an alternative to the MA. Remember, lil H2H dude- you guys have never made a single cent for HTC- the MA puts food on their table.
Carry on.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.
LOL, yeah sure. How about we remove H2H and make you slackers start paying for the services you get from HTC. I like that idea better.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I like the MA, I don't give a rat's bellybutton about H2H. ToD won't replace the MA; it's not intended too. It'll give the scenario people, and the box sim crowd, an alternative to the MA.
:aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
ToD won't replace the MA; it's not intended too. It'll give the scenario people, and the box sim crowd, an alternative to the MA.
This man speaks wisely.
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Damn Hub stop playin over 12 hours at a time.He is welcome to an opinon as well as the rest of us,and how do you know he doesn't play in MA?With all these shade accounts floating around you never know.
ToD shall by the design has the different target audience.
Sure MA will stay. It may be even more people in MA when ToD arives (may be not at once, but after couple of months).
Success of ToD will depends on many factors. Despite it development takes so long, we still have high hopes for it, and trust HTC design. If it will be what I want and what I hope for, I will mainly fly it, keeping MA as a training arena. If it won't, I probably will cancel account, because I am burned out with MA and its gameplay model. MA is a great arcade arena, it has a lot of people, lot of good friends, great people, great pilots, often very fun fights, but just after 6 years in a game I simply can't motivate myself to fly seriously in it.
I feel the same way you do Fariz.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
how do you know he doesn't play in MA?With all these shade accounts floating around you never know.
He has stated that he only plays H2H.
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Originally posted by 1K3
(hmmmm what a dream come true for those who want to see more people playing in ALLIES vs AXIS match:))
You must be kiding?! Axis vs Allies ?! AXIS planes are already mutilated, hadicaped , they fly like bricks, and this pach "fixed" the firepower,
I wonder how did Galand, Priller and many more shot down 50-60 spits, if the 109s,Fw190s were soo bad
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I wonder how did Galand, Priller and many more shot down 50-60 spits
They had too.Factor in the lack of good pilots on both sides.Those planes that you say suck so bad actually fly better then the old version of them did.
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They are not bad GHI. They are good. Just use them accordingly -- start with alt advantage, attack while you have advantage, then, when you out of your advantage -- run.
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I can't say much about the 109's. I like FW-190 for long time. In AH FW-190 never had a fair fighting chance, was never treated fair, EVER. Here if you are in a D9 you either run like a chicken or die. A8, you can't really call it a fighter. A5 is fun, but just compare it with it's contemporary enemies.
I used to play AH a lot, but Il-2, Forgotten battles, and the way that game evolved now is what made quit playing this game. In that game you always had a fighting chance in FW, If you meet an enemy at the same altitude you had a chance. Not here.
I just subscribed to AH again to try the new patch. Nothing is changed. I think this is the only game out there that has the fully loaded Lancaster outrun a FW-19A8 at altitude. It's just silly.
My opinion is that the game is slightly biased and you'll see all this in tour of duty: You have the best version of Spitfire Mk5, P-51B for some strange reason got Malcolm Hood ( what % of 51B's had it?), energy bleed in turns feels fishy, those Hispano cannons.....
Oh well, I tried for the third time. I'll be out of here at the end of the month. I won't bother to come back.
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Originally posted by Bruno
I for one don't care anything about gondolas, who gets in a sports car to pick-up fat chicks?
Bet you do:lol
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I can't say much about the 109's. I like FW-190 for long time.
yet your avatar is a 109 pilot.
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It's been there for long, I forgot about it.:D
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Originally posted by gatt
Nevermind, judging from your stats you dont even know whats buff hunting
if you are that interested in stats, look up JB73 from maybe a year ago, to longer and look at 190 d9 vs. any bomber.
it doesn't matter what plane you fly really, if you know how to attack bombers.
ask 999000 and tatertot, they know what i am talking about.
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(IMO) of course. And as best i can tell from the way things have developed.
Here it is ghi. Plain and simple. The Plane Set in AH2 isn't being overhauled, added to, designed nor modified for MA use. The MA is just a place where you can fly them all, If you dare! rofl.
I believe the plane set is being developed for the up and coming (Some Day) TOD.
This is why HTC is being so purest about their decisions as to AC design, inclusion or exclusion and so forth. I flew both the G14 and the K4 and dont like either one for the reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread (K4s Tater Tosser) and the G14's stiff high speed performance Roll rate at 400 sucks). I will stick to the 190D9 and A5 for my German rush.
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And Jaws those games you desctibe may be better at graphix but none of them allow you too play that many people in 1 arena,talkin to at least 20 of them them on the same channel.
Maybe you should spend the rest of your month in the CT,or check out the SEA events like the Weds. snapshot.Not everyone in this GAME agree's with everyone else but some of us do like to have fun still.
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Originally posted by Bruno
3cm is 1 shot - 1 kill on any fighter.
I wish that were true. I dont know how many times Iv hit allied planes in the wing just to see thier wingtip come off and see them fly away. Some with P38s and hiting them in the engine most the time it just takes out the oil.
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
I can't say much about the 109's. I like FW-190 for long time. In AH FW-190 never had a fair fighting chance, was never treated fair, EVER. Here if you are in a D9 you either run like a chicken or die. A8, you can't really call it a fighter. A5 is fun, but just compare it with it's contemporary enemies.
I used to play AH a lot, but Il-2, Forgotten battles, and the way that game evolved now is what made quit playing this game. In that game you always had a fighting chance in FW, If you meet an enemy at the same altitude you had a chance. Not here.
I just subscribed to AH again to try the new patch. Nothing is changed. I think this is the only game out there that has the fully loaded Lancaster outrun a FW-19A8 at altitude. It's just silly.
My opinion is that the game is slightly biased and you'll see all this in tour of duty: You have the best version of Spitfire Mk5, P-51B for some strange reason got Malcolm Hood ( what % of 51B's had it?), energy bleed in turns feels fishy, those Hispano cannons.....
Oh well, I tried for the third time. I'll be out of here at the end of the month. I won't bother to come back.
190s are under modeled in AH and if you dont think so go read some of crumpps posts. He even posted a document showing 190 combat flaps deploy around 300mph but Iv yet to see that in AH, but who cares about 190s when you can fly all the best spits that were ever made.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
And Jaws those games you desctibe may be better at graphix but none of them allow you too play that many people in 1 arena,talkin to at least 20 of them them on the same channel.
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I'm talking about how planes are modeled here (FM, DM, weapons, ammo, .....). It has nothing to do with graphics, is all clear there. You see, to me is important that planes match their historical counterparts.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Maybe you should spend the rest of your month in the CT,or check out the SEA events like the Weds. snapshot.Not everyone in this GAME agree's with everyone else but some of us do like to have fun still. [/B]
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Already did, CT is fun but it has 3-7 pople online at one time. That's not masive multiplayer.
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
I can't say much about the 109's. I like FW-190 for long time. In AH FW-190 never had a fair fighting chance, was never treated fair, EVER. Here if you are in a D9 you either run like a chicken or die. A8, you can't really call it a fighter. A5 is fun, but just compare it with it's contemporary enemies.
Are people seriously complaining about the 190D9?
Even the A8 is pretty darn good as long as you make sure to get some altitude under you before you engage. It may turn like a truck, but the roll rate is awesome, and it's a very stable gun platform ... combine that with the 4 x 20mm that makes any snapshot an instant kill. Everyone whines about people HOing them with LA7s and such - well the A8 is you answer. And the A8 can outrun the new Spits on the deck with it's boost. Honestly I think it's one of the better perk farmers out there right now - it's got enough ammo for someone like me with 5% gunnery to land 5 and 6 kill sorties repeatedly.
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Originally posted by SpinDoc1
I wouldn't exactly call the MG useless, ghi. 13mm are slightly larger than US .50 cal (at 12.7mm), and they seem to be able to take some parts off of aircraft when concentrated well. You can also use them to range other aircraft and get them to break off a run-away maneuver. That way they will be put in useful range of that 30mm. I will agree that the spud cannon is hard to aim though... better set convergence out at max, that way the trajectory drop isn't as pronounced (when it's set to D650, it won't have dropped as much by D300, whereas if set to D300 it will have dropped considerably).
Greetings..
Question... as I've never figured it out... does the convergence setting in AH2 affect drop of the round? As I understand it, convergence isn't designed to take elevation into account but rather to adjust the horizontal convergence of the guns. On nose mounted guns, convergence settings should be much less important than A/C with wing mounted guns. I didn't think elevation was modeled in AH2.
As for the K4..
I have several concerns with the implementation of the 109K4.
The information I give here isn't necessarily correct, as with German Aircraft it is highly possible to find differing facts. However I offer the following.
The K4 was a pressurized version of the K2. In the early model K0s the Germans used both the 20mm /13mm configuration of the G10 as well as a 30mm/15mm configuration. With the K2 and K4 they settled on the 30mm/15mm configuration. AH2 lists the K4 with 30mm/13mm. According to my source.. "The Great Book of WWII Airplanes" this would be incorrect.
The K4 at SL had a max speed of 378mph. At 19,685' it maxed out at 452mph.
Offline... with 75% fuel the best I could manage on WEP, auto pilot, was 368mph at SL and 443mph at 19,685. Thus I would suggest that the K4 is somewhat slower than the quoted performance figures. The speed numbers appear in multiple locations on the WEB and in the quoted source above. The armament issues are inconsistent depending on source with some quoting the 30mm/13mm vice the 30mm/15mm.
In any event, I think the K4 is close... but it needs to be tweaked to be truly representative of the historical aircraft.
SOUP
4510
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Originally posted by SOUP
Greetings..
Question... as I've never figured it out... does the convergence setting in AH2 affect drop of the round? As I understand it, convergence isn't designed to take elevation into account but rather to adjust the horizontal convergence of the guns. On nose mounted guns, convergence settings should be much less important than A/C with wing mounted guns. I didn't think elevation was modeled in AH2.
[/b]
It wasnt in AHI, but it is now. Moving the convergence distance also changes the verticle trajectory.
As for the K4..
The K4 was a pressurized version of the K2. In the early model K0s the Germans used both the 20mm /13mm configuration of the G10 as well as a 30mm/15mm configuration. With the K2 and K4 they settled on the 30mm/15mm configuration. AH2 lists the K4 with 30mm/13mm. According to my source.. "The Great Book of WWII Airplanes" this would be incorrect.
[/b]
That book is wrong, the 15mm was never used in a cowl gun.
BTW, welcome back Soup. :)
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Heya Grits....
That is interesting about the trajectory... good info.
I was playing with the settings the other night on a 190D9. With conv set to 400 and firing at a 400m tgt... the MGs would hit at or slightly above aimpoint... the cannon would hit at or slightly below.
What confused me was when I moved the tgt to 100m the cannon hit significantly below aim point. I would have thought in close the cannon would be higher.... (until REAL close of course as the cannon are in the wings below the gunsight)
In anyevent.... for cannon hits I should aim "high" at close ranges? (seems counter intuitive)
Never have got my aim points figured out in here.
As for the 15mm... I've not found another source that corroborates the K4 having 15mm and as I mentioned in a "qualifier" trying to decide what the Germans had on their aircraft is often very hard as they had so many versions.
Anyone else tried some speed runs to see if the speed is accurate on the K4?
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Originally posted by ghi
You must be kiding?! Axis vs Allies ?! AXIS planes are already mutilated, hadicaped , they fly like bricks, and this pach "fixed" the firepower,
I wonder how did Galand, Priller and many more shot down 50-60 spits, if the 109s,Fw190s were soo bad
Cherrypicked.