Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 08, 2001, 04:54:00 PM
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From Time Magazine:
What's the story on Uday? Isn't he a crazy party animal?
You party with Uday at your peril. Saddam's eldest at 36, he had been widely regarded as the leader's natural heir, a prospect that sent shudders through many Iraqis given his reputation for drunken fits of homicidal brutality. He’d been most notorious for a 1988 incident in which he’d gotten drunk at a party and killed one of his father’s top aides using a pistol and a battery-operated carving knife. That's probably the pick of the bunch, although the list includes wounding an uncle and killing six dancing girls at a party seven years later.
But the assassination attempt left him partly paralyzed, and in subsequent years he appears to have been eclipsed in the succession stakes by his brother Qusay, younger by two years. Qusay heads up his father’s all-powerful secret service, and in 1996 supervised a bloody purge of senior figures suspected of plotting a coup. Last year Qusay was named as his father's deputy "in the event of an emergency," suggesting paramountcy in any succession struggle. Still, you don't want to count out a rival who may come at you with an electric carving knife.
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I hope saddams whole family dies.. I know this sounds harsh but thats what he does to people and their famalies on a whim, so diddly him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
I hope saddams whole family dies.. I know this sounds harsh but thats what he does to people and their famalies on a whim, so diddly him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ditto here. That idiot should have earned a Darwin award decades ago.
Mav
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Originally posted by Maverick:
Ditto here. That idiot should have earned a Darwin award decades ago.
Mav
So anyone who does not behave the way you like is automatically an idiot?
So he has a spoiled kid - hard not to when you are all-powerfull.
I think that he is a brilliant politician. He is maintaining a minority rule in Iraq where majority is of the same faith as his greatest enemy - Iran. He is a counterweight to the fundamentalist Iran and as such his wellbeing is so important to us (US of A) that we would not let a hair on his head be harmed despite anything he does (attacking Kuwait, committing atrocities, etc.)
Would he even have still been in power if he did not try to invade Kuwait and suffered defeat from US? Iran would have been better off but I doubt that Hussein would still be it's leader.
He uses arab's hatred of America to keep the power. He uses NATO's problems to keep it paralyzed when he needs (just try to promote an independent state for those Kurds - you will really piss off our NATO friend Turkey and Russia with the remainder of Kurd population and Spain with their Basque problem).
He is hated but he is untouchable and he pushes his luck to the limit (but no more). Despite all he has done his population will support him and probably adores him and he has a huge following in the arab's world.
He may not be the same level of genius as Hitler but he is head and shoulders higher then any visible leader in the last twenty years.
And why shouldn't he? He got the power himself in a fight and intrigue against powerfull and ruthless enemies, unlike our current presidents who get elected for the way they look. He kept that power through all the coup attempts and disasters, which he managed to turn to his advantage.
Thinking that just because someone is an enemy or evil he is automatically stupid is a big mistake.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d:
So anyone who does not behave the way you like is automatically an idiot?
So he has a spoiled kid - hard not to when you are all-powerfull.
I think that he is a brilliant politician. He is maintaining a minority rule in Iraq where majority is of the same faith as his greatest enemy - Iran. He is a counterweight to the fundamentalist Iran and as such his wellbeing is so important to us (US of A) that we would not let a hair on his head be harmed despite anything he does (attacking Kuwait, committing atrocities, etc.)
Would he even have still been in power if he did not try to invade Kuwait and suffered defeat from US? Iran would have been better off but I doubt that Hussein would still be it's leader.
He uses arab's hatred of America to keep the power. He uses NATO's problems to keep it paralyzed when he needs (just try to promote an independent state for those Kurds - you will really piss off our NATO friend Turkey and Russia with the remainder of Kurd population and Spain with their Basque problem).
He is hated but he is untouchable and he pushes his luck to the limit (but no more). Despite all he has done his population will support him and probably adores him and he has a huge following in the arab's world.
He may not be the same level of genius as Hitler but he is head and shoulders higher then any visible leader in the last twenty years.
And why shouldn't he? He got the power himself in a fight and intrigue against powerfull and ruthless enemies, unlike our current presidents who get elected for the way they look. He kept that power through all the coup attempts and disasters, which he managed to turn to his advantage.
Thinking that just because someone is an enemy or evil he is automatically stupid is a big mistake.
miko
Miko,
Ya know I never thought that the attempted genocide of a religious faction could be a wonderful addition to the world. Just think, we could use the next mass murderer as a future nobel peace prize example. As long, of course, he / she is a good politician. That factor mitigates ALL the killing in their own and other countries as well.
Hell, lets nominate Hitler for sainthood as well. He was a stellar politician in his early years. What he did in the last 6 years of his political career shouldn't stand in the way of his being thought of as a nice guy who has been vilified unjustly.
The value of his (Saddam) political brilliance FAR outweighs the deaths of those less brilliant people in his own country as well as Kuwait. I just never thought of it. Thanks for opening my eyes to the clarity of political brilliance value and thought.
Mav
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ROTFLOL Mav!
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George Bush Sr. killed one hundred thousand Iraqis to save a buck on a gallon of gas.
Saddam is a small time thug by comparison! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by blur:
George Bush Sr. killed one hundred thousand Iraqis to save a buck on a gallon of gas.
Saddam is a small time thug by comparison! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
One of the students I went to college with (Returned to Kuwait after earning his degree) was tortured and killed by Iraqi troops during the occupation of Kuwait, would you like to tell his mother (Who resides in the U.S) that same narrow mind liberal opinion?
Edit:Never mind.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-09-2001).]
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Blur,
Are you just be a dipshit just for fun or do you really feel that way?
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Blur, you can't possibally believe that... you must be trolling.
George Bush is an honorable man who got the job done... and the raping and pillaging Iraqi soldiers became a "hundred thousand points of light" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
And Bush had the support of the whole country.
Gunthr
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Blur is a product of the ultra left wing kennedyland. (if he is being serious)
I can't take the time to explain the global implications of one dictator controlling the worlds petroleum reserves and the repercussions on everyone's economy to you. You need to find someone who can explain economics, petroleum dependency and politics to you. It wasn't about the price at the pump, but you likely will not believe it as the kennedyland liberals told you a fairy tale that you would rather believe.
Now aren't there any more child molesters to be released there? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Mav
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The only thing Im unhappy with is that we didnt go ahead and kill Saddam, people say nobody knew where he was but I'd wager that they knew what kinda bunny slippers he wore in the morning and what color his toejam was, I guess they didnt want to throw the middle easte into turmoil and make saddam azssclod into a maryter to his "people"
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So I take it that "Three Kings" isn't a very popular film around here?
XX
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Not to bee off subject but Three kings is a masterpiece he way it mixed action comedy and drama, back to the subject.......saddam needs a Drano enima.
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Originally posted by Maverick:
Miko,
.... As long, of course, he / she is a good politician. That factor mitigates ALL the killing in their own and other countries as well.
Mav
Mav, read your post again and then read mine again.
It is not a good style to put words in other people mouth they never said and then argue with them.
You said that Saddam Hussein was an idiot and I stated that he is very smart.
Neither term has anything to do with moral values of a person. There are many well-meaning idiots and there are quite a few evil geniuses. Of course you may be confused by the TV where all "evil geniuses" are actually idiots but that is not the case in real life.
"Smart" or "genius" means that a person has high congitive ability (ability to process information). "Idiot" means that a person has low cognitive ability.
Besides that there are such valuable human capabilities as dearing, decisivness, bravery, charisma, wisdom, education, realistic perseption of reality. Each of those may be posessed by evil as well as good persons.
According to what I know of S. Hussein and A. Hitler careers they are/were very capable persons. I am sure that their I.Q. are very high.
The fact that they engaged in murders genocide only indicates that they were evil people, not that they were stupid.
Of course if you read A. Hitler's memoirs you may get an impression that he thought he was acting in the best interests of humanity and civilization, as he saw them. So he may arguably be called misguded rather then evil.
The real idiots in this story are people who confuse evil genius with stupidity. You would think I mean you but actually I am talking about some of my ancestors who could read "Mein Kamph" for twelve years before Hitler even started genocide and underestimated him and did not get out in time. And politicians who allowed WWII to happen for exactly the same reasons.
When we get to the moral judgements, I think that my statement "Thinking that just because someone is an enemy or evil he is automatically stupid is a big mistake." clearly indicates that I consider Hussein evil and our enemy.
Nowhere did I indicate that S. Hussein was a "good" politician or that any of his actions were "wonderfull additions to the world" (as we perceive it). I just said he was a brilliant politician.
Life would have been much nicer if all the evil guys were stupid and all the good guys were smart. That is mostly true when it comes to violent crime in US - a smart person is much less likely to commit one, but not in international politics.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 01-11-2001).]
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You have to admit that with those qualifications hes brilliance as a butcher shine thru. Think about it. In Iraq they not only have a ruler but a budding Chief Boyardee! What has Bill got on Sad Jr. buddy. Wouldn't he be brilliant at parties. Those people that get a little to drunk and obnoxious could be whipped up into a quick snack. I say he's a man of many talents and we should take our hats off! Salute Saddam Jr.(The Julia Childes of the Middle East!)
All I know is I hope that we don't start electing people to be president of the United States that have that kind of prowess with kitchen utensils. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) My friends Great Uncle told us about Hitler's rise in Germany. He said most people just laughed at the guy. He was at some speech where Hitler fell of a bridge (if I remember the story right) and everyone got a kick out of it. He said all his friends and everyone he knew thought the guy was a crack pot. The next thing they knew he was in charge. People in the United States used to think Hitler was brilliant. Hitler made the cover of TIME! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) Their is a great old Capra film called Divide and Conquer that talks the subtle way Hitler smoothed into the harts of Germans and many Americans with his "brilliant" conquests at the beginning of the war. My friends parents are Dutch. They moved to the US during WWII. In 1982 there was a huge military practice maneuver that was held where I live. The paratroopers landed around my friends house. His mother went into hysteria. She remembered the German paratroopers landing around her house. The war was still that close to her after all that time. Anyone who can talk of people that can cause that kind of terror after 40 years with admiration still have a little bit more to learn about life. We can't argue that people like this a tenacious, driven, stubborn and a lot of other things. But to admire them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Miko,
I re read your post and my response to it. I still stand on what I said. The thought that an evil person is or is not stupid was not the issue. The IQ of the person committing the atrocity does not reduce the seriousness of the atrocity. You want to think saddam is a bright person, go right ahead. His actions in the gulf do not indicate a bright intellect. They indicate, IMO, a cruel depraved power hungry despot who controls through brute force. It's kinda hard for his countrymen to object when he has the total control of the armed forces in his country. Look at those members of his regime who have objected to his practices. They seemed to have gotten kinda dead. That did include family too. I seem to recall a brother or son in law that fled then stupidly returned. He's not around anymore.
The type of "brilliance" you seem to think is so wonderful is the result of having the guns and manpower to enforce whatever whims he has. The control over the media in his country tells his population what he wants them to hear.
A final note and an indication of the "love" his countrymen have for this hemorrhoid is shown in the lack of public appearances. It seems he is only seen on televised controlled circumstances TV. In other words I firmly believe this individual knows someone out there is going to pop a cap and put him down.
I don't give a fart in a high wind for the political brilliance of any despot, mass murderer, homicidal maniac or other person who lives through harming their fellow man. The world would be better off without them no matter what their IQ is.
Mav
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Saddam wanted all out war with the United States....NOT VERY BRIGHT!
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
Saddam wanted all out war with the United States....NOT VERY BRIGHT!
Very, very good point! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Originally posted by miko:
"Of course if you read A. Hitler's memoirs you may get an impression that he thought he was acting in the best interests of humanity and civilization, as he saw them. So he may arguably be called misguded rather then evil."
To suggest that somone who exterminated 6 million human beings is "misguided" is just plain sick.
Tread
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Heh come o guys, eeven the republicans gotta admit that the war against Iraq was about oil primarily and freedom as a distant second.
Not that I feel that the US should be ashamed of defending its interests, and oil is a BIG one thanks to the gas guzzlers in the US (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
But invaded to avenge/save kuwaiti women? Nah, I don't think so - first of all then the US would be forced to invade a helluva lot of places where worse opression take place. Secondly, the Kuwait regime isn't exactly working hard for an equal democratic society.
Let's just call a spade a spade and be done with it. No need for big words, when small ones suffice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Oh and yeah, death to the Husseins.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht
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I will keep it short.
I think it is silly to concentrate on Saddam Hussein
as the Man of the Evil Empire.
Who ever lived in the Middle East like me will quickly realize that, there are a lot of similar Oriental Regimes in the Middle East that are officially supported by the USA.
But no Western Country will put their finger on them or on the USA.
I think it is rather amusing to see all these frightened Royals running around in the West and buying lots of Property.
Strange I wonder what they are afraid of?
Maybe of their own People?
But why are the People so upset?
I always thought the USA supports Democratic regimes.
But anyway the end is near if the West likes or not.
(But you should not forget that in the World nothing seems as it is.)
[This message has been edited by ICEWIND (edited 01-13-2001).]
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Originally posted by miko2d:
He uses arab's hatred of America to keep the power. He uses NATO's problems to keep it paralyzed when he needs (just try to promote an independent state for those Kurds - you will really piss off our NATO friend Turkey and Russia with the remainder of Kurd population and Spain with their Basque problem).
er...excuse me...I'd like to know one thing, as Basque and Spanish...
how the hell is going to piss off Spain that the Kurds get they own nation?.
Out of curiosity, I'd like to know in what you are basing on. If you talk about the Kurd parlament doind sessions in Vitoria, yes that caused some pollemic but in another completely different dimension and because motives that have nothing to do with an independent kurdistan.
Please, care to explain your words?
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-13-2001).]