Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on November 12, 2005, 02:11:24 PM
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It's simply amazing that these people align themselves with democrats and poeple still vote for them.
http://leavemychildalone.org/
(http://leavemychildalone.org/images/recruiter.gif)
From the site.
DID YOU KNOW....
... that the notorious No Child Left Behind Act includes a sneaky section that requires high schools to turn over private information on students to military recruiters?
Yes it's been done this way since the days of modern recruitment. Just like colleges military recruiters from all branches get a list of students who are potential applicants. This is nothing new been that way since at least 92 probably before then.
And that the Pentagon has created an illegal database of 30 million 16-25 year-olds, including names, addresses, email addresses, cell phone numbers, ethnicities, social security numbers, extracurricular activities, and areas of study?
Welcome to the modern age of computers.....
Yikes. What do we do? Any way you look at it, this is a family privacy nightmare, another strong-arming of our local schools, and a creepy warm-up to a possible draft. However, it's also a great reason to get together and take action.
again nothing new here.....this has been done for at least the last 10 years.
EDIT:
A second thought occured to me and that is if these people don't want their children to enlist all they have to do is not sign the papers. Once the kids are 18 they are their own people. I would agree that recruiters are annoying when they CONSTANTLY call but most don't see how stressfull their jobs are. If one annoys you all you have to do is contact the station commander and complain to him and the phone calls will probably stop.
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Man, what a bunch of horrible crazies! Wanting to keep personal information about their children out of the hands of the Pentagon. Those bastards!
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Originally posted by SOB
Man, what a bunch of horrible crazies! Wanting to keep personal information about their children out of the hands of the Pentagon. Those bastards!
They didn't have a problem with this 2, 4, or 10 years ago, what's changed? The pentagon has allways had this info, it's nothing new. We have a volunteer standing army, if they can't recruit are denied the ability to recruit guess what happens then?
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The e-mail I sent to them
You have got to be kidding right?
You people make me sick, I spent my 20 years in the military, so the people like you all would have the right to do **** like this, Well I hope like hell when some terrorist group lands on your front door, that some else is there to save your ass. Because I sure as hell will not even lift a finger to help your sorry tulips out!
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
They didn't have a problem with this 2, 4, or 10 years ago, what's changed? The pentagon has allways had this info, it's nothing new. We have a volunteer standing army, if they can't recruit are denied the ability to recruit guess what happens then?
There wasn't a war going on in Iraq.
You claim a child can make their own decisions at 18 years old. To that I say, I made the worst decisions of my entire life when I was 18. I thought I knew it all when I knew absolutely SQUAT.
Denied the ability to recruit? lol. Thank GOD my kids aren't anywhere near 18 or anywhere near your recruiters.
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These same type of people (some whacked out liberals) have no problem with a 14 year old girl having an abortion without even having to tell the parents.
Why should they have a problem with their kid talking to recruiters in high school?
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Originally posted by Heater
The e-mail I sent to them
You have got to be kidding right?
You people make me sick, I spent my 20 years in the military, so the people like you all would have the right to do **** like this, Well I hope like hell when some terrorist group lands on your front door, that some else is there to save your ass. Because I sure as hell will not even lift a finger to help your sorry tulips out!
So you were only fighting for the freedom to agree with you? I salute your service Heater, but I think you don't quite get this whole freedom thing.
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Originally posted by Curval
There wasn't a war going on in Iraq.
You claim a child can make their own decisions at 18 years old. To that I say, I made the worst decisions of my entire life when I was 18. I thought I knew it all when I knew absolutely SQUAT.
Denied the ability to recruit? lol. Thank GOD my kids aren't anywhere near 18 or anywhere near your recruiters.
Ummm actually there was a war going on in Iraq at the time. Since then the military has deployed to Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, East timor, Africa and many others I can't think of right now. If reqruiters are denied contact information to High School students then They are denied a invaluable tool for recruiting. Either way an 18 year old has the right to sign up if he/she's qualified and a parent cannot stop them. If the applicant is not 18 than the parent has to sign his/her papers. No one is forcing kids into the military at all.
But again I have to ask this, if the military can't recruit qualified applicants what happens next?
EDIT: there is a war on. But the TRUTH is that the points they make on their website have been there long before the invasion of Iraq and Sept 11th. one could make the connection that this is a direct attempt to undermine the military's effectiveness/strength.
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Military makes a man; man without military is a puss. :)
I believe that military should be 2 years mandatory service. Let ‘em dig ditches or similar physical work…but that’s not possible in US. It’s cheaper to hire Mexican do that labor intense work than for military guy.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
They didn't have a problem with this 2, 4, or 10 years ago, what's changed? The pentagon has allways had this info, it's nothing new. We have a volunteer standing army, if they can't recruit are denied the ability to recruit guess what happens then?
Did they know about this 2, 4, or 10 years ago? I didn't. We do have a volunteer army, and I don't want to deny them the ability to recruit, but rather the ability to gather up information on people's children without prior consent. They can still advertise, and as far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem with them visiting schools on career days and the like.
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Originally posted by Curval
Denied the ability to recruit? lol. Thank GOD my kids aren't anywhere near 18 or anywhere near your recruiters.
No fear Curval, children of wealth and privlege seldom have that worry. In the States or your rock
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Originally posted by SOB
Did they know about this 2, 4, or 10 years ago? I didn't. We do have a volunteer army, and I don't want to deny them the ability to recruit, but rather the ability to gather up information on people's children without prior consent. They can still advertise, and as far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem with them visiting schools on career days and the like.
I've worked in recruiting offices and they request from schools class lists. Usually these lists just has name, addr, and phone number on them. THe military uses these lists for "cold calling" That's calling every name on the list to try and set up appointment interviews. During these interviews the recruiter feels out the kid to see what he's interested in and what he want's out of life. I've never ever heard a recruiter tell a kid not to go to college but does show them the programs that will help pay for them.
Colleges get the same lists from schools and use them in the same way.
This was in 94 when I was first interested in joining the Marines....then 95 when I actually enlisted....and again in 97 when I did 30 days of recruiters assistant. My brother enlisted in 93 and it wasn't much different then and I can only assume that not much was different 10 years prior to that.
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Originally posted by Curval
There wasn't a war going on in Iraq.
You claim a child can make their own decisions at 18 years old. To that I say, I made the worst decisions of my entire life when I was 18. I thought I knew it all when I knew absolutely SQUAT.
Denied the ability to recruit? lol. Thank GOD my kids aren't anywhere near 18 or anywhere near your recruiters.
Kinda makes you wonder what kind of decision they'd make if you
didn't control their choices though, huh?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I've worked in recruiting offices and they request from schools class lists. Usually these lists just has name, addr, and phone number on them. THe military uses these lists for "cold calling" That's calling every name on the list to try and set up appointment interviews.
That's not unreasonable.
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Originally posted by SOB
That's not unreasonable.
That's what I'm saying. Basically what I can assume is that we used to get these lists in a print out, they probably now go into some database and get accessed by computer instead of having huge file cabinates and folders. The fact that they are storing this stuff in a database to me is just modernization.
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Originally posted by Rooster
No fear Curval, children of wealth and privlege seldom have that worry. In the States or your rock
39 posts yet you have me pinned as a person of wealth and privilege? Who are you and why are you posting under a shades account?
There is a reason that the US military is having to resort to gathering info without any form of permission to try and coerce kids into joining the military right now.
I'm very glad that they won't have the opportunity to try it on mine that's all.
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Originally posted by Curval
39 posts yet you have me pinned as a person of wealth and privilege? Who are you and why are you posting under a shades account?
There is a reason that the US military is having to resort to gathering info without any form of permission to try and coerce kids into joining the military right now.
I'm very glad that they won't have the opportunity to try it on mine that's all.
see that's were you are completly wrong. The military isn't "resorting" to anything. They've allways done this. This group seeks to undermine the security of the United States because it fits their political Ideology.
What they don't get is the fact that if the military recruiters cannot recruit from High School there WILL eventually be a draft. Right now their kids have a choice of wether to join the military or even TALK to a recruiter. If there's a draft there won't be that choice.
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Everyone needs to send them an E-mail telling them they are wackos
They should be ashamed
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's what I'm saying. Basically what I can assume is that we used to get these lists in a print out, they probably now go into some database and get accessed by computer instead of having huge file cabinates and folders. The fact that they are storing this stuff in a database to me is just modernization.
What I take issue with is the information beyond the name, address, & phone #. Basically, I'd prefer the government to know as little about me and my offspring (assuming i go insane and decide to breed) as possible.
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is selective service still required of 18 yr olds? I had to sign up on my 18th birthday. Used to be the law.
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Originally posted by SOB
What I take issue with is the information beyond the name, address, & phone #. Basically, I'd prefer the government to know as little about me and my offspring (assuming i go insane and decide to breed) as possible.
Tis unfortunate.. but with your SS# resides all the dirty deeds and details of your most unfortunate life... yer uncle sam already knows everything.
everything.
every single little thing.
all of it.
Brittany... the New Kids... the whole deal.
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Hang, SOB,
Here's my view on it. They do not need your SSN, that I'd agree with. The only reason they need SSN is to run a backround/Credit check, wich they DO do IF you want to sign up.
But the other half is that this isn't just some corporation this is the govt, if they wanted your SSN couldn't they just get it? Either way I'd agree with you, the lists we saw did not have SSNs and when I went to high school 10 years ago I don't think my school had that info either.
Nirvana,
Since you're still in High School, does your school have your SSN?
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Originally posted by Yeager
is selective service still required of 18 yr olds? I had to sign up on my 18th birthday. Used to be the law.
Yes kids are still required by law to register on their 18th B-day. They are required to have a selective service number prior to enlisting as well.
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I knew about this for years.
I fail to see what the big deal is.
Just last week a recruiter called asking to speak to my son.
So I turned to my son (now 17) and said to him "Its for you, its an Army recruiter"
My son "Whats he want?"
Me "What the hell you think he wants? Probably wants to talk to you to see if your interested in joining the Army. You interested or not?"
My son (sarcastic look on his face) "No. Im not joining the army"
Me "You sure? Its your call kid"
My son "Dad, Im not joining the Army. I want to go to Rutgers. I told you that. Tell him Im not interested"
Me "Ok. He said hes not interested"
Recruiter "Ok, that you"
Simple as that.
No muss no fuss.
IF he wantd to talk to the man and decided to join I'd support him.
And if he didnt. Well I'd support him in that too.
I figure at 17 he's old enough and he has earned the kind of respect from me to know he's responsable enough to start making alot of his own life decisions.
For now this is the decision he has made. And Im ok with it.
Should he change his mind later I will support that also.
Some years ago I told him I was giving him two choices. He could study hard and go to college. or he could join the marines. Either way he was going to learn something
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WTG dred, that's really all you have to do. My parents gave me two choices.....ok 3.....it was go to college locally and I could live at home. No college and I move out get a job and support myself. Long before I made this choice my best friend came back from recruit training from the Marines and I knew that's what I wanted to do. I was a recruiters dream, I walked into their office as a junior and said I'll give you guys a call when I'm 18. I did and signed up 2 days after my birthday.
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Well, I was given a few choices.
One of them was that my dad would support me completely as long as I stayed "The **** out of the marines."
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Mac <----Dropped outta HS at 16... joined the Army at 17....got a GED and an AS and BS degree... wasn't easy, to many of nights and stretched out years... I am a stickler in my Family now on Education... I push my children hard and at times they regret it...
My oldest Daughter who is as stubborn as I am, Scholarship @ Baylor Medical College, turned down a Congressional and Presidential appointment to West Point, she went and partied 2 years at OU till Daddy jerked her chain,,,Heh... Dads...we can do that chit.
My youngest Daughter is being nominated into the National Honor Roll. There's educational competition between Michelle and Renae...and they each know it.
And my Son..The girls torment him but love him to Death... Tomorrow I'll teach him how to pisss on a Duck...Later as he grows he'll have to pisss on a Bull... Welcom to Manhood!!!
Mac, never a Dull Moment!
:aok
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Originally posted by Curval
There is a reason that the US military is having to resort to gathering info without any form of permission to try and coerce kids into joining the military right now.
I'm very glad that they won't have the opportunity to try it on mine that's all.
Curve I think you know me a bit better than that other guy and I know you as well. Given that, I was rather taken back by your earler statement and the part quoted above.
The kids are not coerced into joining and no one has been forced into the military in this country for some time.
In a way I really do wish that we would adopt a style of government franchise that was spelled out in Heinlien's book Starship Troopers. You can live in the country and take part in the lifestyle. If you want to take part in a position of authority or vote you should be expected to earn it by service to the country in some concrete manner. Those that have invested in the country and placed themselves in a position to actually put deeds, not words, into actions have demonstrated the higher degree of responsibility to exercise that franchise or being responsible for the direction the country is moving.
That made sense to me decades ago and the older I get it makes even more sense given the irresponsible behavior of many people and the IMO abuse of the freedoms others have earned for them. With freedom comes responsibility to exercise it. Many do not understand that in my observation, especially those who gain that freedom through no action of their own other than through luck in birthplace. I have seen that those who are merely given things seldom respect the value of what they were given or the worth of those that provided it for them without any required action on their own. Sad. It's IMO even sadder that there are many who feel it is their right to have things and rights provided for them with no effort to earn them.
<------- gets off of soapbox.
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Kerry's "I Have a Plan.." was great....
Waiting for it to come out on DVD...
:O
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Originally posted by Maverick
In a way I really do wish that we would adopt a style of government franchise that was spelled out in Heinlien's book Starship Troopers. You can live in the country and take part in the lifestyle. If you want to take part in a position of authority or vote you should be expected to earn it by service to the country in some concrete manner. Those that have invested in the country and placed themselves in a position to actually put deeds, not words, into actions have demonstrated the higher degree of responsibility to exercise that franchise or being responsible for the direction the country is moving.
That made sense to me decades ago and the older I get it makes even more sense given the irresponsible behavior of many people and the IMO abuse of the freedoms others have earned for them. With freedom comes responsibility to exercise it. Many do not understand that in my observation, especially those who gain that freedom through no action of their own other than through luck in birthplace. I have seen that those who are merely given things seldom respect the value of what they were given or the worth of those that provided it for them without any required action on their own. Sad. It's IMO even sadder that there are many who feel it is their right to have things and rights provided for them with no effort to earn them.
<------- gets off of soapbox.
How very Jeffersonian.
I agree completely. Serve, either civil or military; you get the franchise. No service, no franchise.
I'd like to add.. tax exemption and guaranteed healthcare for those that chose military service instead of civil service would be nice.
;)
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Hang,
In some types of civil service you could actually see more combat than some military MOS's. :p
Just pulling your chain. ;)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
How very Jeffersonian.
I agree completely. Serve, either civil or military; you get the franchise. No service, no franchise.
I'd like to add.. tax exemption and guaranteed healthcare for those that chose military service instead of civil service would be nice.
;)
Okay I'll bite....
Tell me about "Jeffersonism" Hang.
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Popcorn and beer, sittin in a soft spot.....
enlighten me Hang...
Mac
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It's kinda basic really.. Jefferson proposed that if you own property and pay property taxes, you can vote, run for office, be a judge, etc. Un-propertied tradesmen that had no property (land) also paid no taxes (back then there was no such thing as 'income tax') and therefore they had no rights to the franchise.. ie, no voting rights; can't run for or hold public office, etc. At least as far as I can recall, that was Jefferson's take on it.. I may be off the mark; been 45 years since my Civics class.
Mav's spin on it is based on service to the Nation rather than property ownership/taxpayer status.. serve the nation for 3 years, then you can vote, hold office, etc. Decide not to serve, no onus.. but no right to vote or hold office.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
It's kinda basic really.. Jefferson proposed that if you own property and pay property taxes, you can vote, run for office, be a judge, etc. Un-propertied tradesmen that had no property (land) also paid no taxes (back then there was no such thing as 'income tax') and therefore they had no rights to the franchise.. ie, no voting rights; can't run for or hold public office, etc. At least as far as I can recall, that was Jefferson's take on it.. I may be off the mark; been 45 years since my Civics class.
Mav's spin on it is based on service to the Nation rather than property ownership/taxpayer status.. serve the nation for 3 years, then you can vote, hold office, etc. Decide not to serve, no onus.. but no right to vote or hold office.
He's talking about the book Starship Troopers wich is absofrickenlutly NOTHING like the move. On a level of greatness the book gets a 9/10 the movie gets a -57/10.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It's simply amazing that these people align themselves with democrats and poeple still vote for them.
http://leavemychildalone.org/
(http://leavemychildalone.org/images/recruiter.gif)
From the site.
Yes it's been done this way since the days of modern recruitment. Just like colleges military recruiters from all branches get a list of students who are potential applicants. This is nothing new been that way since at least 92 probably before then.
Welcome to the modern age of computers.....
again nothing new here.....this has been done for at least the last 10 years.
EDIT:
A second thought occured to me and that is if these people don't want their children to enlist all they have to do is not sign the papers. Once the kids are 18 they are their own people. I would agree that recruiters are annoying when they CONSTANTLY call but most don't see how stressfull their jobs are. If one annoys you all you have to do is contact the station commander and complain to him and the phone calls will probably stop.
You mean the far left. I could go find the same kind of bs from the far right and post it as mainstream right but its a waste of time. You have a lame duck president and its time to face it.
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Originally posted by Raider179
You mean the far left. I could go find the same kind of bs from the far right and post it as mainstream right but its a waste of time. You have a lame duck president and its time to face it.
these people arent that far to the left. I hardy see what the "far right" does that's worse than this. Besides we've allready established because of the "you should denounce" thread that it means everyone.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
these people arent that far to the left. I hardy see what the "far right" does that's worse than this. Besides we've allready established because of the "you should denounce" thread that it means everyone.
O’REILLY: You know, if I’m the president of the United States, I walk right into Union Square, I set up my little presidential podium, and I say, “Listen, citizens of San Francisco, if you vote against military recruiting, you’re not going to get another nickel in federal funds. Fine. You want to be your own country? Go right ahead.” And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we’re not going to do anything about it. We’re going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.
So basically O'reilly says its ok to take out San Fran because they are un-american for exercising their right to disagree. Sad day for America if you on the left support this bs.
That clear up what I am talking about?
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Wow, raider's back for more punishment. After a month's hiatus.
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Another Cindy Sheehan Micheal Moore USA Bashing production! Lovely!!!
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Wow, raider's back for more punishment. After a month's hiatus.
Naw just came back to see you guys stick with bush all the way down.
I realized tonigh that we cant win the war on terror. That is just a bs statement to begin with. Those sneaky (%&)'s will always be able to sneak in create acts of terrorism. I think we just have to learn to absord and minimalize the damage as much as possible. Katrina showed me that the Bush administration is STILL uncopmletely prepared for a major catashrophy. To me we are still in 2000 when we should still be living as if its 9/12/01. Man I miss that country. We were all there. Anything and everything. Nothing left to be said, I am sad it feels like my reps and senators are ruining our counry. Together they are screwing all of us, and our leader can do nothing about it.
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Did a liberal just sayu that we shouldnt even try to fight the terrorists and should just hide and learn to "absorb" the damage done in terrorist attacks?
:aok