Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Udie on December 19, 2001, 10:14:00 AM
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Man I don't feel very good about my thoughts lately. I look at the Al Queda prisoners at Camp Rhino and hope that the Marines are beating them constantly. I actually hope they kill them all slowly and very painfuly. I've never EVER had these kinds of thoughts about other humans before. But the more I think about it the more I end up fantacising about doing the beating and killing myself, to the point that I actually get myself all worked up and my adrenaline is flowing. You guys should have read the post that I wrote last night but finaly deleted due to it's murderous tone. It very descriptive and contained a couple of my demented fantacies of killing Al Queda POW's.
Normaly I would never have these kinds of thoughts on ANY POW's we capture. There's just something about these pukes that makes me want to give them negative mercy. When they surrender then attack their captors and stuff like that makes me want them dead even more. It makes me feel like they don't deserve the safety Geneva convention.
I am wondering if anybody else here is having the same kind of disturbing thoughts about killing POW's in a slow excrutiatingly painful manner. Maybe it's time for me to give in and go see a shrink, I don't know. I just don't like having these kinds of thoughts...
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Your a bad boy, Udie. I say leather whip should do good to discipline you. :D
Actually, I think thoughts of violence after what recently happened on 9/11 are quite normal.
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You're in good company, I have the same thoughts. I commend Bush for not calling off the troops until the mission is complete. The media cryed foul/too much in the Persian Gulf war after we hammered the snot out of them retreating in droves. These same people faulted Bush Sr for not fighting longer and getting Saddam. <shrug>
With few cameras present, I'm hoping these prisoners are getting their respective tulips kicked off camera. Same with Johnny Bin Walker. There should be a long line of Marines waiting to give him "their regards".
Everyday the B52s fly is a good day :)
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Hey Everyone! Udie's human!!!
:cool:
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I'm kinda mixed about the POW situation...
I don't feel there should be mistreatment as a rule... but if something pops up, I don't care how sternly they deal with it.
Basically, if they want to be decent... we'll treat them decently. If they don't, we should come down on them with a fury.
Using gunships to quiet a prison riot excessive? That depends.. were they using .50 or 20mm rounds?
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Using gunships to quiet a prison riot excessive? That depends.. were they using .50 or 20mm rounds?
AKDejaVu
See that's just it. I'm furious that we didn't drop a freakin Fuel Air Bomb or a Daisy Cutter in the middle of that prison.
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They are terrorist arnet thy not e=members of the geneva convention.
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Well, as anyone who works for a prison can tell you, as the prisoners sit there and lament their fate, they might be able to provide some useful information.
I had the same doubts you indicate though, when these Taliban guys were "changing sides". I don't think so. Just a ploy, I say.
But either way, I don't have a lot of respect for the enemy. I beleive those Taliban folks should be used to walk across the areas suspected of having Land Mines...if they live, shoot em. If they are blow up, shoot em. See a theme? :D
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I am far from sympathising with Al-Caeda mutionus prisoners but since I was not there this time to see the truth with my own eyes, the following scenario can easily be imagined and I am sure that was what really happened.
The fighters did surrender after NA and we guaranteed their lifes and decent treatment. Even they did not get explicit reassurances (which I am sure they did), taking someone prisoner in exchange for their stopping of fighting implies that much.
We know that NA are murderous bastards that hate pretty much everyone else (US included). So they were very likely to mistreat prisoners because many were of different ethnicities and general hatred for Taliban.
I don not think that our two (at least) CIA operatives behaved like lambs either if they share 1/10 of the sentiment present on this board.
So the prisoner uprising may have easily been provoked by mistreatment rather then planned in advance.
Why the heck try to smuggle a weapon to the prison to stage an uprising and be bottled up without hope of escape if you could use teh same weapon in the field to achieve same glorious death in the name of Allah?
As for the prisoners not subject to Geneve convention, I doubt that such distinction as explained to them before they were offered to surrender.
BTW - one person's criminal is another's freedom fighter.
Would George Washington troops in 1776 be subject to hanging after they were offered surrender?
In short, if prisoners are not convenient, you do not have to take them. If you need prisoners, take them by force rather then offer them mercy.
You can spare some bloodshed by deceiving people and then mistreating them, but it only works once.
The next bunch that we face will likely remember the Afghanistan lessons and fight to the death - costing us more blood. As Sun-Tsu said - "always leave the enemy a way to save himself".
Besides, once you start total "take no prisoner/kill prisoners" war, it is hard to argue for unlawfulness of killing civilians.
P.S. I sad "this time" in the first paragraph because there is some relavant experience on afghan prisoners that I am sure is repeated in this case.
Shortly after beginning of Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, soldiers of both sides did their utmost not to get into enemy's hands alive.
Is it rational and sencible exchange - torturing prisoners to death at a cost of your own soldiers that are bound to fall into enemy hands? How many american lives is it worth to torture a thousand afghan prisoners? In my opinion one is too many.
You can argue that we do not suffer any casualties or prisoners in Afghanistan but neither did russians when we captured it.
It's occupying that proved to be difficult. Or living with the concequences afterwards. As Soviet Union and US both learned, those guys have no problem coming to us where we live.
miko
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Use them as test subjects for Aids and Cancer cure research.
Keep them chained and give them food pellets and alpo I say.
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MIKO YOU LEFTIST USA HATING SOB !!!
BURN IN HELL YOU COMMUNIST, YOU UNPATRIOTIC BASTARD !!!
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Was that a good impression for you guys ?
I definately lack his temperament :D
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We are bound to follow the Geneva Convention and it is not a matter of "these guys are bad so lets not follow." We must follow it to protect the rights and safety of our future prisoners of war. There is a popular question I've been asked in a few military boards over the years. It's something like this: Q:"Why should we follow the Geneva Convention even if other countries don't?" A:"Because we are required by treaty to follow it and by doing so we may influence other countries to follow it."
The bottom line is if you we don't follow it we just give countries a good excuse to mistreat our POWs in the future.
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Not to mention such acts would only strengthen the enemy's will to resist.
If these people are treated decently, other Al-Quaeda members that are cornered in the future will be much more apt to give up than fight to the bitter end. If they believe a bullet to the head is coming if they surrender, then you can bet that they won't, and we'll wind up having more of our own soldiers wounded or killed in bringing them down.
Emotionally, its understandable, Udie. I wouldn't sweat it unless you started capturing and eviscerating stray cats or something.
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Originally posted by Lance:
Emotionally, its understandable, Udie. I wouldn't sweat it unless you started capturing and eviscerating stray cats or something.
I love cats too much to do that! I still miss Zoom, he was Boom's brother but died a year ago. So now I'm stuck with a psycho cat named Boom. EEEK I'm hijacking my own thread!
Seriously though, I understand wnat you guys are saying, and deep down inside I know we have to respect the Geneva convention. It's part of what makes us so called civilized. It's one of the things that seperates us from the terrorist. BUT STILL[/i] Sometimes I want to get down on their level and do to them what they have done and will do to us in the future.
I'm glad I wrote this post. It's good to see that people think similarly to me (that's scarey!) Though I'd still like to kick some teeth out. So are we better people if we restrain ourselves or do we play into their hands?
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]
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"I'm hijacking my own thread"
NOW ive seen everything.
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Actually, the Geneva Convention does NOT apply. These "combatants" were captured under arms, while they were not in uniform or carrying identification that they are legal combatants of a country.
IE they fall under the classification of sabotuers, spies, assasins or terrorists. Therefore, they are legally subject to summary military justice, up too and including immediate execution.
I'm not saying thats what should be done, or that we would even consider it under these conditions, but from my military training about the Geneva convention, it would be entirely legal if not appropriate.
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Don't execute these prisoners. They could be useful for testing Anthrax vaccines and treatments, or for airliner crash testing.
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Originally posted by funkedup:
Don't execute these prisoners. They could be useful for testing Anthrax vaccines and treatments, or for airliner crash testing.
I agree! We can help my sick demented imagination and PETA all at the same time. Take the monkeys out of the labs and put in the terrorist. HMMM let's see how this new acid based fingernail pollish remover reacts in an unprotected human eye. Wait! we better test it with a cut human eye too, nurse hand me the razor blade please. :)
See I'm going rabid again senario'ing about what I would do to these, these, these, I can't think of words vile enough to describe them.....
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..or for airliner crash testing.
Poetry. :)
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The men that were fighting in the civil war. IE the afgani nationals deserve the protection of the Geneva convention.
The terrorists have made their own rules. They will not respect anything else but death I believe. It is what they long for isnt it. Death in the Jihad? That is not what will happen though. They will be sent back to thier counties to be cheered as heros and do it agian. Or they will be sent back to their countries to be slapped on the wrists.
Surrender can just as easily mean I dont want to suffer any more as fight any more.
End the suffering.
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At the risk of a good flaming, I say... "Let’s not become like them".
Sure, I would like to slow roast the bastards! However, the U.S. is better than that. Respect the Geneva Convention.
Then put them to work at a pork processing plant.
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Dress 'em in a white jumpsuit, put 'em in an all white cell without windows. Total absence of color stimulus. Guards, everything is white. Feed 'em cream of wheat with milk .
See how long it takes 'em to go nuts. :)
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<doesn't read udie's post>
Yes, you're a very evil person. You'll be punished for this. I'm glad you finally realized how wicked you are.
Come visit me by the Lake Of Lava, if The Master allows you to do so.