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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on November 13, 2005, 01:03:44 AM

Title: Grunz
Post by: Raider179 on November 13, 2005, 01:03:44 AM
Yes I did say that.

We cant win a war on terrorism all we can do is hurt ourselves. There is always gonna be some sneaky terrorist that makes it through. Is that worth ruining America's reputation on? I am not sure on the answer I will admit. What I do know is not committing fully doesnt cut it.

        To me we need to fully engage. It's coming, why dont ya'll see that??? Syria, Iran go check a map, we got them surrouned. I have said it before we need a draft. It's time to assert our power not show our weakness to a guerillia war.
                          Keep thinking liberals are weak and divide us more, I just want to kill the bastards that deserve it and they are in afghanistan/pakistan. We can deal with Iraq later...
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2005, 01:39:36 AM
So you arte saying we should start WW3 in the mid east?  Thats an intersting perspective.

Lets all discuss, does anybody think the proper response to 911 and the general
tend of global extremist islam violence should be an all out US and I imagine Western attack on mide east islamic nations?
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 01:44:57 AM
I'm really confused.  We ARE currently fighting syrians and Iranian jihadists in Iraq but you, raider, are saying we should abandon Iraq and invade these other countrys.

What would that do again?  Seriously I hear the propaganda word "imperialism" used all the time in reference to the US and people who are like you, raider, say this is one of the things that Bush has done wrong.  In essence his "bring it on" statments and Iraq policies cause more terrorist to be created.

Yet you want the same gun boat deplomacy to be done in other countries but don't want it done in Iraq were we are allready fighting them????? :huh
Title: Grunz
Post by: Raider179 on November 13, 2005, 01:51:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you arte saying we should start WW3 in the mid east?  Thats an intersting perspective.

Lets all discuss, does anybody think the proper response to 911 and the general
tend of global extremist islam violence should be an all out US and I imagine Western attack on mide east islamic nations?


Yes we didnt react strongly enough towards those responsible. We shifted the attack to Iraq and that failed. Simple.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Raider179 on November 13, 2005, 01:53:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I'm really confused.  We ARE currently fighting syrians and Iranian jihadists in Iraq but you, raider, are saying we should abandon Iraq and invade these other countrys.

What would that do again?  Seriously I hear the propaganda word "imperialism" used all the time in reference to the US and people who are like you, raider, say this is one of the things that Bush has done wrong.  In essence his "bring it on" statments and Iraq policies cause more terrorist to be created.

Yet you want the same gun boat deplomacy to be done in other countries but don't want it done in Iraq were we are allready fighting them????? :huh


Simple, we are not fighting, we are only doing the least we can. That clear it up???? I am for turing the boys loose...
Title: Grunz
Post by: moot on November 13, 2005, 02:36:54 AM
You're just back from Iraq to give a first-hand non media-biased assesment of the US-led operations?
Title: Grunz
Post by: Raider179 on November 13, 2005, 02:43:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
You're just back from Iraq to give a first-hand non media-biased assesment of the US-led operations?


Seen enough to put it that way. Lost of one of my best friends to a sniper over there... That count enough for you???
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gh0stFT on November 13, 2005, 06:40:28 AM
does any of you even think about the real reason for 911 ???
all i hear is how to react now and more weapons and more blood.
Title: Grunz
Post by: AWMac on November 13, 2005, 07:45:35 AM
Bait the hunted not the Hunter.  We hold in Iraq and Afganistan kill them off as they come.  For us to chase them down in Syria and Iran we then end up as the hunted.

And to the question of all out Global attack on Terrorist GRUNHERZ, I say yes!  You don't place a bandaid on a severed artery...  Imagine if we did nothing after Pearl Harbor in '41.  Would we be speaking Japanesse or German now?

Those that are whining now are the Liberals... I say place guns in the hands of Liberals and sent them forward... either they would come to the realization that the World isn't perfect and there are bad people out there or they'd end up shootin themselves in the foot and blaming the NRA.

To those with sleepy eyes....yes we are at the beginning of WWIII.

Mac
Title: Grunz
Post by: AWMac on November 13, 2005, 08:20:37 AM
Another Cindy Sheehan Micheal Moore USA Bashing production! Lovely!!!

That's Sig material Grunz!

:aok

Mac
Title: Grunz
Post by: lazs2 on November 13, 2005, 08:56:38 AM
nope... will be nice to have a foothold in the middle of muslim nutjob land..  it is nice to have volunteers killing thousands of extremists every day... fiter em there not here.  

lazs
Title: Grunz
Post by: Dowding on November 13, 2005, 09:09:52 AM
Quote
We hold in Iraq and Afganistan kill them off as they come.


And thousands of ordinary Iraqis get caught in the cross fire. How very considerate of you. Go freedom!

At least now the average Iraqi has the freedom to go about their daily business and only fear death and disability from suicide bombers... compared to facing death and disability from a dictatorship.

But hey, at least this war is being fought on foreign soil at the expense of a bunch of expendable natives! :aok
Title: Grunz
Post by: lazs2 on November 13, 2005, 09:21:17 AM
well... yeah dowding... other than the occassional poison gassing of their villiage and maybe a few hundred thou here and there rounded up for torture and imprisonment.... other than that... they have a pretty good life.  Pretty much the comment I expected from a socialist... "better to live on your knees..."

lazs
Title: Grunz
Post by: AWMac on November 13, 2005, 09:24:04 AM
I think the term you are looking for is "Collateral Damage"  Dowding.

Nice to see your head out of the sand or prettythang again and posting.

I guess it far worse that it is happening over there and not in your front yard.  Otherwise you'd be cryin "Why hasn't anyone done anything to prevent this?"...  Enjoy your humble pathetic life... we'll make sure you're safe.


Mac
Title: Grunz
Post by: Krusher on November 13, 2005, 09:25:58 AM
...no point in repeating what others have said. I will delete my post
Title: Grunz
Post by: AWMac on November 13, 2005, 09:41:48 AM
We could have been a bit nastier about it all and nuke the Hell out of Bhagdad before we went in... or blow away Mosques during Ramadan.

But that would have just stired up the honets a bit.  What's your answer Dowding?  Please enlighten us.

Mac
Title: Grunz
Post by: VOR on November 13, 2005, 10:42:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
does any of you even think about the real reason for 911 ???


The "real" reason? THE real reason? I'm just dying to know.
Title: Grunz
Post by: moot on November 13, 2005, 10:43:29 AM
It's actually all the US' fault.
American foreign policies brought on 911.
America needs to become more like the rest of the world.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Casca on November 13, 2005, 10:56:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
It's actually all the US' fault.
American foreign policies brought on 911.
America needs to become more like the rest of the world.


You mean frontal lobotomies for everyone in the whole country?  Jeebus that would take a lot of time and money.  Easier just to win the war and go on.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gh0stFT on November 13, 2005, 10:58:17 AM
moot, if they dont understand the truth, they lost fighting forever ghosts.
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2005, 12:54:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
It's actually all the US' fault.
American foreign policies brought on 911.
America needs to become more like the rest of the world.


911 was planned in the late 1990s.

During that time the the US president was bill clinton. Bill clinton had the most pro arab pro muslim forteign policy of any us adminstaration in decades.

He was strongly pro mid east peace process and pushed israeol harder than any us presdinent to make peace concessions to the palewstenian people.

The USA launched major military actions to defend muslim population being slaugfhtered by chrsitians in europe, twice.

The USA send huge aid operations to muslim nations all over the world.

That was the US foreign policy that caused 911.

What does the rest of the world do differently?
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 01:34:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
911 was planned in the late 1990s.

During that time the the US president was bill clinton. Bill clinton had the most pro arab pro muslim forteign policy of any us adminstaration in decades.

He was strongly pro mid east peace process and pushed israeol harder than any us presdinent to make peace concessions to the palewstenian people.

The USA launched major military actions to defend muslim population being slaugfhtered by chrsitians in europe, twice.

The USA send huge aid operations to muslim nations all over the world.

That was the US foreign policy that caused 911.

What does the rest of the world do differently?


Isn't it funny how they think we are doing something wrong and deserve this when in the long run it's there own laws policies and PCness that's going to be the downfall of them.
Title: Grunz
Post by: NUKE on November 13, 2005, 01:44:44 PM
The real reason for 911 lies within the radical extremists, who cannot be appeased.

No other reason and no action or inaction by the united states will change them.

How would you like to apply that same, ignorant argument to the attacks against civilians in:
 Spain, Jordon, India, Uzbekistan, Suadi Arabia, Indonesia, Tajikistan, Kenya, Manilla, Pakistan, Peru, Tunisia, Russia, Israel, Philippines, Columbia, Morocco, Turkey, Japan and others?

Maybe those countries need to all snap in line and stop making radicals so upset. Yeah, that's the answer.
Title: hook, line, sinker?
Post by: moot on November 13, 2005, 01:45:14 PM
:p
Title: Re: hook, line, sinker?
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 01:47:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
:p


nice :aok
Title: Grunz
Post by: straffo on November 13, 2005, 02:15:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What does the rest of the world do differently?


Likely because the rest of the world is looking at Israel.

Well it's my hypothese.
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2005, 02:23:29 PM
Lets be serious here, in the late 1990s WHEN 911 WAS PLANNED the Palestenians were closer to independance and a state than any time during the whjole peace process precisekly because the USA was putting huge pressure on Israel yet thats when the AL Qaeda were plannin g 911 and blowing up us embasies all over the world.

So clearly the issue of Palestenian stehood and independance is not a driver of AQ terrorism.

Now maybe if the USA could convince the israeli government to evacuate the country and move the pesky jews away somewhere then the terrorists would like us.  Is there space for a bunch of immigrant Jews in france? Maybe in germany? Do you think they could get their pre ww2 homes back?
Title: Grunz
Post by: straffo on November 13, 2005, 02:26:02 PM
Where did I wrote I'm or France is part of the "rest" of the world ?
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2005, 02:33:16 PM
What did you mean then?
Title: Grunz
Post by: straffo on November 13, 2005, 03:04:06 PM
I was thinking of the middle "rest" of the world :)
the one who was likely to act.
Title: Grunz
Post by: NUKE on November 13, 2005, 03:05:53 PM
911 was planned by Bin Laden and his group mostly because HE didn't like the US presence in the Middle East as a result of the first gulf war.

I stress HE, because his native country's government along with most in the area, and many from around the world DID want and supported the US presence in the middle east, in order to drive Iraq out of Kuwait.

So basically one guy and his radical group of followers carried out the attack for their own personal reasons.

The US never mistreated Bin Laden or his family that I know of. In fact, he had many family living in the US, plus he was filthy rich..... so there goes the "oppressed" victim argument too.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gh0stFT on November 13, 2005, 04:34:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
911 was planned by Bin Laden and his group mostly because HE didn't like the US presence in the Middle East as a result of the first gulf war.


as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would your plan be to get them out?
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 04:36:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would you do to against it?


it was AT the REQUEST of his country.  ANd it's not so much that we were there it was the fact that he offered his "Mujahadeen" (SP) to help defend mecca and he was shrubbed off by the royal family.  it was embarrasing and disrespectfal all at the same time.
Title: Grunz
Post by: NUKE on November 13, 2005, 04:51:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would your plan be to get them out?


So, if I were banashed from of America because I was trying to overthrow the government ( like bin laden was in S.A.) and then one day the US invited Russian troops to help control the Mexican border, I would be justified in flying some airliners into some buildings in Moscow because I personally don't like the Russian presence?
Title: Grunz
Post by: NUKE on November 13, 2005, 04:53:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
it was AT the REQUEST of his country.  ANd it's not so much that we were there it was the fact that he offered his "Mujahadeen" (SP) to help defend mecca and he was shrubbed off by the royal family.  it was embarrasing and disrespectfal all at the same time.


Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gh0stFT on November 13, 2005, 05:05:46 PM
Nuke, responsibility!
what russia's Gov. did was wrong, they earning the horror today.
but this is no exuse how other nations act!
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 05:12:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.


You gotta love revisionist history!
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gh0stFT on November 13, 2005, 05:30:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.


the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 06:03:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?


Study some history.  OBL was personally insulted that he was snubbed by the saudi royal family.  Being from the 2nd richest family in Suadi Arabia this didn't set well with the spoiled rich kid.  Top it off with US troops on Arab soil at the request of the royal family he flipped out.

Study some history.
Title: Grunz
Post by: NUKE on November 13, 2005, 06:08:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?



What does the American oil industry have to do with revolts in those countries?

 What does any of that have to do with Bin Laden getting banished from his own country because he wanted to overthrow the government, then attacking innocent civilans in the US just because his country allowed us to operate out of there?

The US helped a lot of countries oil industries.

I'm sensing that you are going down the path of saying that we deserved to be attacked by terrorists. If you are, I'm done with you.
Title: Grunz
Post by: AWMac on November 13, 2005, 06:40:02 PM
Face it all... Osama Bin Laden is dead.  He is no more.  Mother Nature took his arse.  Lets all say "EarthQuake" together.    He may as been dead Months before. Bad Kidneys and no medical assistance.  When was the last time he made a film or tape?  He's dead along with his second in charge.

Sir this is a Dead Parrot.  

Takin bets here...

Dead:   ?

Alive:    ?

Prove to me that he is still alive.... AQ/Taliban is covering up the fact that he isn't dead in order to keep the Jihad alive.

*places Crystal Ball back into Bowling Ball case*

Mac
Title: Grunz
Post by: Gunslinger on November 13, 2005, 06:52:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Face it all... Osama Bin Laden is dead.  He is no more.  Mother Nature took his arse.  Lets all say "EarthQuake" together.    He may as been dead Months before. Bad Kidneys and no medical assistance.  When was the last time he made a film or tape?  He's dead along with his second in charge.

Sir this is a Dead Parrot.  

Takin bets here...

Dead:   ?

Alive:    ?

Prove to me that he is still alive.... AQ/Taliban is covering up the fact that he isn't dead in order to keep the Jihad alive.

*places Crystal Ball back into Bowling Ball case*

Mac


there may be some truth to that.  It's been over a year since anyone's heard a peep out of him.
Title: Grunz
Post by: Staga on November 13, 2005, 07:05:39 PM
My bet is he's still alive and should be hunted down and brought to court.


At same time world should work together to get rid of the reasons why extremist groups can recruit people; cure the reason behind the sicknes and not just the consequences.
Title: Re: Grunz
Post by: bj229r on November 13, 2005, 07:16:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Yes I did say that.

We cant win a war on terrorism all we can do is hurt ourselves. There is always gonna be some sneaky terrorist that makes it through. Is that worth ruining America's reputation on?.  


Ruining our reputation with WHOM? France? Germany? Russia? All 3 had a vested interest in seeing the status quo with Iraq stay the same. I've come to the conclusion that no country on this Earth's opinion is worth a damn, save maybe Great Britain..and vast majority of their government is leftist/socialist-leaning
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2005, 07:30:46 PM
The dominat forces in the mid east during tyhe 1950s and 1960s were the UK and France.  Your mind numbing hatred of the evil bugaboo oil companbies nad the evil USA is amazing and it really seems to blind you to simple facts.  Just ask yourself who was it that invaded egypt in 1956, for example? Who armed the Israeli state until the 1970s?

France and the UK! Why? Because they politically "owned" the mid east and practically all those areas were recent colonies or post ww1 and post ww2 creations of those two nations.

The USA only started getting seriously involved in the 1970s because the French and Brits cowardly gave in to arab rumblings because the arabs constantly got humiliated by the numerically insignificant Jews armed with French and British equpment. You can clearly see that in the pattern of israeli military hardware for example as all thought the 1960s the Israelkis used British and French equipment. The coward french withdrew their military sales support for israel because of Arab pressure as did the brits due to similar pressures. The USA simply stepped in.
Title: Grunz
Post by: straffo on November 13, 2005, 11:50:51 PM
Thank for the kind words Grun.
Now open a book and look at the name of the companies acting in the middle east from 1930 to today.
Title: Grunz
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 14, 2005, 12:01:01 AM
Companies?

Why fret about companies when the great nation states of Western Europe were the key players toying with the fates of thir former mid east possestions, colonies or protectorates till the 1970s... Certainly companies are no match for freat nations like France?

So with that important matter of scale of power and influence in mind, I blame the french. And especially for supporting israel in the 1950s and 1960s, idf it wasnt for the evil meddling anmd arms supplying of the french and british during these two key decades israel could have been wiped off the map and none of these muslim terrorist problems would exist today. Becuause we all know evil Israel opresses all those poor hundreds of millions of muslims in the mid east, africa and pakistan and thats why they attack us.

I blame france and the UK for helping israel survive the 50s and 60s and this I blame then for the 9-11 attack!!!

Bastards!!!!