Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on November 15, 2005, 02:16:39 PM
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Was watchin' a special on the p51 on the mil. chan. and a guy came on and made the following statment.
"the germans had adopted LONG RANGE armament at this point in the war, and with their 20 and 30mm cannons, could shoot at the American bombers from long range. The American bombers were helpless as their .50cal machineguns were not effective at those ranges."
Was this guy just dumb? SOUNDED to me he was saying the 109's and 190's 20/30mm's cannons allowed them to shoot and down buffs from long distance, distances where the .50 cal could not reach.
Where, oh were do they get these "experts" for these shows?
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The same place that had the folks tell them that the P-38 Lightning was America's premier jet fighter in WWII.
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Originally posted by Golfer
The same place that had the folks tell them that the P-38 Lightning was America's premier jet fighter in WWII.
LMAO, maybe we can get the Jet version one day. Perked of course.... should be a fun plane to fly!
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the military channel constantly shows the wrong aircraft while explaning another one, mis-states the # of guns/cannons, etc....
Just take everything they say with a grain of salt.. after all they have to fill up 24hours a day of programming for junkies like us to soak up.
Balsy:aok
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That may have been the same show where the "expert" stated that the P-51 was feared by the Germans because of it's six 50 MILLIMETER machine guns! I'd settle for one 50 mm machine gun!
Let's see......50 CAL = about 12 mm........so 50mm would be about a 200 caliber, right? I'm afraid that the 6 X 50 MM P-51 would have to be perked!:D
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It would only fly at 150mph, and climb 100ft an hour, but God help whatever was dumb enough to get in front of it.
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The recoil from the 6 50mm guns sometimes caused planes to travel backwards in time. (btw, 2.54cm/inch IIRC, so yeah, damn near 2" shells. WOO WOOOO, let's go vulching!)
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I'd settle for one 50 mm machine gun!
The 262 had an optional 50mm,the barrel is about 6-7 feet long.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The 262 had an optional 50mm,the barrel is about 6-7 feet long.
I believe that was their secret "Johan Sabastian Holmes" version of the 262!:D
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He was dumb, the 50 cals had the distance advantage because they were shooting with the airstream, the fighters were shooting into it. Well that really didn't make sense, think of it as a bomber gun shooting then flying away from the bomber while the fighter is shooting and trying to catch up with the bomber. Know what i'm saying? I'm having a hard time putting it into words.
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Not too radical of a statement if you think about it.
The damage a .50 caliber gun does is based off of velocity. The further out the shot is taken, the less damage the .50 does.
The Damage of a 20mm gun (the majority) is based off of connecting. It is connecting with an airplane that explodes the shell. While speed might help, it is not necessary.
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Originally posted by nirvana
He was dumb, the 50 cals had the distance advantage because they were shooting with the airstream, the fighters were shooting into it
Wind resistance isn't as much a factor as the speed of the aircraft... a FW190 diving on a buff's 6 doing 400 adds his speed to the muzzle velocity giving him a slight advantage vs the b17s which are subtracting their speed from their muzzle velocity.
Speaking of wind resistance, I have read where F-86 pilots would fire much farther out at high alt because the air was thinner, which could also help the historic FW in the same situation.
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You might want to rethink that.
The .50's a Buff is firing at a 190 gain in power the faster the 190 is moving at the buff just as much as the 190 gains from the other way around.
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The .50's a Buff is firing at a 190 gain in power the faster the 190 is moving at the buff just as much as the 190 gains from the other way around.
Kinda like the faster the Pitcher throws the ball the faster it's goin out of the park theory.
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Originally posted by Balsy
the military channel constantly shows the wrong aircraft while explaning another one, mis-states the # of guns/cannons, etc....
Just take everything they say with a grain of salt.. after all they have to fill up 24hours a day of programming for junkies like us to soak up.
Balsy:aok
LMAO you got that right.
I remember wtching a show on the P51 and they kept talking about the P51D over and over again.
Cool.
The only problem was is while they were saying P51D they were showing the P51B
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There is alot of incorrect info on the military and history channel . They said in one show that i watched that the P-38 had a top speed of 345MPH lol. And that the only US fighter that was able to go to berlin and back was the p-51, when the P-38 was also able to do it . 38
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In a situation where the bomber's guns are firing to the rear, won't the rounds fired be losing the forward speed that the bomber is travelling?
Also, I'd think that the fighter would have the overwhelming advantage, in that he is firing fixed guns at a large stable target, while the gunner is firing 2 guns from a flexible position at a much smaller target that is likely maneuvering.
It's hard to say without the actual experience, but if it were my *** on the line, I'd much rather be firing explosive rounds at a bunch of guys standing behind sheetmetal in a schoolbus, than be firing at a single guy in an armored volkswagen with ball ammo.
Someone do the hard math stuff for us, please. The physics involved would seem to be fairly complex.
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Hubs,
Think about the situation not that the bombers guns would lose forward volocity as they would if they were shooting at a stationary target, but their targets approaching the rear are moving at or ahead of their current speed.
Now think that when the 109 fires at the bombers the rounds have to overcome the wind resistance of its current speed plus hit a bomber moving away. Meaning from the moment the round leaves the 109 it has to travel the extra distance the bomber moved from the time it left until it hits, plus with a head-wind of its current speed.
Now when the bomber fires, the round leaves the barrel, gets less resistance due to forward speed of the bomber but strikes the 109 sooner as the 109 is closing on it.
Meaning the bombers rounds would in fact "travel farther in comparison to the 109 due to this conditions" Hope this helps!
Warmest Regards,
Higgins
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I believe that was their secret "Johan Sabastian Holmes" version of the 262!:D
lol
Yup, it was affectionally known as "The Wad".
;)