Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Oldman731 on November 15, 2005, 07:54:11 PM

Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Oldman731 on November 15, 2005, 07:54:11 PM
To provide an insight into our deliberative process, I pass on Fork's response to a suggestion for next week's setup:

"Italy 43? Yeah, let's troll it. Canada/Britian vs Luftwaffe/Italy.

Spitfire Vb,VIII,IX vs 109 F4,G2,G6,190A-5"

Our sense was that the 109s and Spits were all born again, so this might be a nice map and a nice way to see how they work.

What do you think?

- oldman
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 15, 2005, 09:14:11 PM
sure thing Oldman, I have enjoyed my last 3 or 4 trips to the CT this past week.......anything sounds good to me
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 15, 2005, 10:55:57 PM
205?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Krusty on November 16, 2005, 01:35:47 AM
You run it I'll play it, personal flight time permitting of course.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: AutoPilot on November 16, 2005, 01:43:28 AM
The Murdering of Innocent Spitfires 1 by 1

Sounds like fun
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 16, 2005, 01:48:39 AM
I doubt there were many, if any, Spitfire Mk Vb's left in frontline service by 1943.

Your call, but it may not be appropriate to the time and location.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 16, 2005, 06:11:58 AM
I have to agree with karnak.  it should be a spit IX but the spit V may bring the woobieplane crowd in so, why not.  add the 202 and the 205 for good measure if no one else minds and please don't forget the 110.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Slash27 on November 16, 2005, 09:06:08 AM
202 and 205 will be there.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Oldman731 on November 16, 2005, 11:18:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I have to agree with karnak.  it should be a spit IX but the spit V may bring the woobieplane crowd in so, why not.  

My understanding is that the new Spit V isn't a woobieplane anymore.

This might be a good test.

- oldman
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Guppy35 on November 16, 2005, 11:34:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I doubt there were many, if any, Spitfire Mk Vb's left in frontline service by 1943.

Your call, but it may not be appropriate to the time and location.


Definately Spit Vs still floating around the MTO in 43.  Granted they weren't the early version Spit Vs, but what the heck, can't hurt to give it a shot :)
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 16, 2005, 12:01:16 PM
Just use the Seafire, except for a little extra weight its the same as the later 12+ boost Vc we had. The reason HT changed the V to a Vb instead of the Vc is that the Seafire is nearly identical to the Vc and they could have basically an early and a late V.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 16, 2005, 01:29:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Definately Spit Vs still floating around the MTO in 43.  Granted they weren't the early version Spit Vs, but what the heck, can't hurt to give it a shot :)

Yup, I was refering to the particular Mk V version we have.  I know that Mk Vcs were still in wise spread use as strike aircraft.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 16, 2005, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
My understanding is that the new Spit V isn't a woobieplane anymore.

This might be a good test.

- oldman
since i hardly ever touch the horrid little planes I wouldn't know, but if it's a spit it's highly likely to be over modelled.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 16, 2005, 03:53:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
since i hardly ever touch the horrid little planes I wouldn't know, but if it's a spit it's highly likely to be over modelled.

Demonstrate that any Spitfire is over modeled.  Go for it.  Put your evidence on the table and lets all look at it. Why horde your proof?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Slash27 on November 16, 2005, 04:10:52 PM
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: dedalos on November 16, 2005, 04:20:46 PM
Anything that kills a 190 or a 109, is overmodeled :D
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: wasq on November 16, 2005, 04:28:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I doubt there were many, if any, Spitfire Mk Vb's left in frontline service by 1943.
I have a reliable source that states that the deliveries of Mk. Vb only started in 1943. Of course, that is to the VVS :) so I would believe they didn't scrap all the Spits before they got them.

EDIT: Units using Spit Vb: 7 IAP, 24 KAE, 16 IAP, 67 IAP, 26 GIAP, 57 GIAP, 821 IAP (started using Spit Vb in autumn 1943).
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Krusty on November 16, 2005, 08:44:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
since i hardly ever touch the horrid little planes I wouldn't know, but if it's a spit it's highly likely to be over modelled.


Storch, you ought to fly the spits. The Vb is a different animal now. the VIII is new. The XVI is new. How will you know their capabilities and how to counter them if you don't fly them for a while?

I don't like spits too much on the priciniple that they're "easy mode" planes. However I've been taking the time to rack up a few kills in the new models to know how better to fight them.

They are not infalible. Took out a XVI in scissors on the deck in a 190a5 today. Might not have known I could do that if I hadn't flown a few sorties in the XVI m'self.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Guppy35 on November 16, 2005, 10:20:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wasq
I have a reliable source that states that the deliveries of Mk. Vb only started in 1943. Of course, that is to the VVS :) so I would believe they didn't scrap all the Spits before they got them.

EDIT: Units using Spit Vb: 7 IAP, 24 KAE, 16 IAP, 67 IAP, 26 GIAP, 57 GIAP, 821 IAP (started using Spit Vb in autumn 1943).


And they got hand me down Spit Vbs too.  Some of the photos of the ones passed on to the Russians show some old war weary vets that have been cleaned up a bit.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 16, 2005, 11:30:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Storch, you ought to fly the spits. The Vb is a different animal now. the VIII is new. The XVI is new. How will you know their capabilities and how to counter them if you don't fly them for a while?

I don't like spits too much on the priciniple that they're "easy mode" planes. However I've been taking the time to rack up a few kills in the new models to know how better to fight them.

They are not infalible. Took out a XVI in scissors on the deck in a 190a5 today. Might not have known I could do that if I hadn't flown a few sorties in the XVI m'self.
that sounds reasonable enough krusty.  i have flown spits from time to time but the level of ease associated with the spit is really disgusting.  i'd just as soon leave them for the pink bloomer or the egyptian talisman crowd.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Mister Fork on November 17, 2005, 08:59:23 AM
(cough) Ahem. The RCAF were INDEED using Spitfire Vb's and Vc's in Italy. I can even dig for you nay-sayers the squadron numbers, and how many canadian pilots who were lost if I must. Even names.

Vb was there, it's just that as typical Canadians, we were using hand-me-downs from the RAF. :(
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 09:26:58 AM
when do you infinitly wise and talented CT staffers forsee the utilization of the new 109s in a set up?  with the mkVIII woobiefire present in this setup the G14 may have been warranted.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 17, 2005, 12:14:07 PM
G-14 is a later than '43 plane isnt it?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 12:16:00 PM
yes that is indeed true.  never the less what will offer the woobieVIII a reasonable challenge?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 17, 2005, 12:25:49 PM
109G-2 can handle it, 109F and the 205 can too to a lesser degree.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 01:13:35 PM
I disagree with that statement grits.  the 109G2 is marginally faster that the spitVIII.  the 109G2 cannot outclimb the spitVIII or out turn it or out shoot it.  The 205 and the 109F are completely outclassed.  so if the topic is machine vs machine then this will be a poorly contested week.  That's not saying that a skilled player in a 109 of any flavor couldn't pervail over a less skilled player in a spitVIII, what I'm saying is if the players are equally matched the spitVIII would win every time and that makes for a generally empty arena.  for what it's worth.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: dedalos on November 17, 2005, 01:22:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I disagree with that statement grits.  the 109G2 is marginally faster that the spitVIII.  the 109G2 cannot outclimb the spitVIII or out turn it or out shoot it.  The 205 and the 109F are completely outclassed.  so if the topic is machine vs machine then this will be a poorly contested week.  That's not saying that a skilled player in a 109 of any flavor couldn't pervail over a less skilled player in a spitVIII, what I'm saying is if the players are equally matched the spitVIII would win every time and that makes for a generally empty arena.  for what it's worth.


Just hit them as soon as their gear comes up and it will make no difference what they are in :aok
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 03:43:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Just hit them as soon as their gear comes up and it will make no difference what they are in :aok
well that's one technique.  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 17, 2005, 05:43:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I disagree with that statement grits.  the 109G2 is marginally faster that the spitVIII.  the 109G2 cannot outclimb the spitVIII or out turn it or out shoot it.  The 205 and the 109F are completely outclassed.  so if the topic is machine vs machine then this will be a poorly contested week.  That's not saying that a skilled player in a 109 of any flavor couldn't pervail over a less skilled player in a spitVIII, what I'm saying is if the players are equally matched the spitVIII would win every time and that makes for a generally empty arena.  for what it's worth.


This would be a good week for some JG54 "teamwork" wouldnt it?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 05:56:38 PM
or bvss "alternative lifestyle" flying.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Grits on November 17, 2005, 06:40:18 PM
Well, as you know, I always go to the side with the least numbers in the CT, so if I do fly this set I expect to be in a 109F, G-2 or a 205 the whole week.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 17, 2005, 07:23:03 PM
good, I like colorful alternative lifestyle people.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: TheBug on November 17, 2005, 08:33:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
This would be a good week for some JG54 "teamwork" wouldnt it?


Careful what you wish for.  Their idea of teamwork involves the radio buffer and sometimes this forum.


Oh I forgot sometimes it involves a circle too.  :)




Crown Bug '06 :aok
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: dedalos on November 18, 2005, 04:15:03 PM
I have seen the light.  NO more easy mode twisty DweebFires for me.  From now on, German planes for ever.  Have the 110 available and I will be there.


I AM THE HO MASTER!!!!!!!!1
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Mister Fork on November 25, 2005, 09:16:56 AM
This setup has now been posted. Enjoy!
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2005, 02:44:46 PM
Well,  I think I sahll consider the CT dead now.

Let all future setups be P-40Bs and Boston Mk IIIs vs Fw190D-9s and Bf109K-4s so the Luftwaffe fanatics can be the heros they want to be and the rest of us never have to worry about it again.

Heck, change the name to the "Luftwaffe Revisionist History Arena" and have done with it.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Oldman731 on November 27, 2005, 05:55:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Well,  I think I sahll consider the CT dead now.

Let all future setups be P-40Bs and Boston Mk IIIs vs Fw190D-9s and Bf109K-4s so the Luftwaffe fanatics can be the heros they want to be and the rest of us never have to worry about it again.

Heck, change the name to the "Luftwaffe Revisionist History Arena" and have done with it.

What am I missing here?  I expected exactly the reverse sort of comment.

- oldman
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: TheBug on November 27, 2005, 06:19:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
What am I missing here?  I expected exactly the reverse sort of comment.

- oldman


The sky is BLUE!!



Let's see how many that draws in Oldman. ;)






Crown Bug '06
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2005, 04:17:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
What am I missing here?  I expected exactly the reverse sort of comment.

- oldman

I am just tired of the Luftwaffe mafia and their constant whining coupled with their endless insinuations about any body that chooses non-Luftwaffe aircraft.

They can fly their manly men aircraft in an empty arena for all I care.  That is want they seem to want, just to declare themselves the victors.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 28, 2005, 06:56:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I am just tired of the Luftwaffe mafia and their constant whining coupled with their endless insinuations about any body that chooses non-Luftwaffe aircraft.

They can fly their manly men aircraft in an empty arena for all I care.  That is want they seem to want, just to declare themselves the victors.
I'm just curious mind you, when was the last time you were in the arena?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2005, 10:12:18 AM
A couple of weeks ago.  I have been out of the game for a long time and am now coming back.  Getting RL sorted sometimes takes more time than one guesses.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Krusty on November 29, 2005, 11:40:01 AM
Well last night the CT was downright decent! Aside from a few minor gangings (on both sides) we had some 4v4 (or was it 5v5?) fights going on. The 190 seemed to be popular amongst the axis (but the 205 did make a good showing) and the fighting was rather well balanced between that and the spitties. Spit9 sure does scare me at times when I'm in a 190. Can't run away in a 190 anymore... just doesn't pull away, despite being 20+ frickin' mph faster than the spit9.

Good match. I think the LW actually got the better on this one, by a small margin. That's not to say I didn't rack up a 3-4 kill sortie in a spitV :P I like the new spits, really. We should use them more in the CT. My only gripe was the ONLY real fighter available for the allies was a spit (3 dif marks, but just spits nothing else). The mossie sucks arse. I tried vertical fighting and literally could never get the enemy off me arse. It just can't turn for chit. So that leaves, a spit a spit and a spit.

So I'd suggest a better selection for the allies next time.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Shifty on November 29, 2005, 03:12:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Well last night the CT was downright decent! Aside from a few minor gangings (on both sides) we had some 4v4 (or was it 5v5?) fights going on. The 190 seemed to be popular amongst the axis (but the 205 did make a good showing) and the fighting was rather well balanced between that and the spitties. Spit9 sure does scare me at times when I'm in a 190. Can't run away in a 190 anymore... just doesn't pull away, despite being 20+ frickin' mph faster than the spit9.

Good match. I think the LW actually got the better on this one, by a small margin. That's not to say I didn't rack up a 3-4 kill sortie in a spitV :P I like the new spits, really. We should use them more in the CT. My only gripe was the ONLY real fighter available for the allies was a spit (3 dif marks, but just spits nothing else). The mossie sucks arse. I tried vertical fighting and literally could never get the enemy off me arse. It just can't turn for chit. So that leaves, a spit a spit and a spit.

So I'd suggest a better selection for the allies next time.


Yeah I'd like to have seen something besides Spits only. Not that I've had any luck in any of them. However I don't wear pink bloomers. Mine are light blue, so maybe a P-47, or P-38 , or even a P-40 would have been nice.:aok
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 29, 2005, 03:47:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
A couple of weeks ago.  I have been out of the game for a long time and am now coming back.  Getting RL sorted sometimes takes more time than one guesses.
ahhh RL the curse of the gaming class.  ok well we'll be here and if you show and fly a spit we will gladly "taunt yew a second tama"
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Eagler on November 29, 2005, 04:02:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Well last night the CT was downright decent! Aside from a few minor gangings (on both sides) we had some 4v4 (or was it 5v5?) fights going on. The 190 seemed to be popular amongst the axis (but the 205 did make a good showing) and the fighting was rather well balanced between that and the spitties. Spit9 sure does scare me at times when I'm in a 190. Can't run away in a 190 anymore... just doesn't pull away, despite being 20+ frickin' mph faster than the spit9.

Good match. I think the LW actually got the better on this one, by a small margin. That's not to say I didn't rack up a 3-4 kill sortie in a spitV :P I like the new spits, really. We should use them more in the CT. My only gripe was the ONLY real fighter available for the allies was a spit (3 dif marks, but just spits nothing else). The mossie sucks arse. I tried vertical fighting and literally could never get the enemy off me arse. It just can't turn for chit. So that leaves, a spit a spit and a spit.

So I'd suggest a better selection for the allies next time.


great fights Krusty
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Furball on November 29, 2005, 05:29:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
To provide an insight into our deliberative process, I pass on Fork's response to a suggestion for next week's setup:

"Italy 43? Yeah, let's troll it. Canada/Britian vs Luftwaffe/Italy.

Spitfire Vb,VIII,IX vs 109 F4,G2,G6,190A-5"

Our sense was that the 109s and Spits were all born again, so this might be a nice map and a nice way to see how they work.

What do you think?

- oldman


HOW MANY TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is [size=8]BRITAIN[/size]

NOT

[size=8]BRITIAN[/size]

silly umericans :mad:
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Shifty on November 29, 2005, 07:39:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
HOW MANY TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is [size=8]BRITAIN[/size]

NOT

[size=8]BRITIAN[/size]

silly umericans :mad:


Easy Furball your lucky we can spell UK.:aok
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Slash27 on November 29, 2005, 09:13:57 PM
Is that near Europe?
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Krusty on November 29, 2005, 09:58:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shifty
Easy Furball your lucky we can spell UK.:aok


:rofl

To quote our Aussie pals, "Too right!"

However I've never mis-spelled Britain unless I was typing too fast and my left fingers hit the key a second slower than they should have.

It's british that I often spell with two "t"s lol
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: storch on November 29, 2005, 10:41:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Is that near Europe?
actually it's near belgium, the capital of holland.
Title: vox populi, vox Dei
Post by: Slash27 on November 30, 2005, 03:42:53 AM
Thats the city built on stilts and has all the giant mushrooms right?