Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BlauK on November 16, 2005, 08:35:12 AM
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I have been in belief that the one who does most damage gets the kill. Still in many occasions I have doubted it. Now finally I cannot believe it anymore, or there are just some other occasional factors effecting the outcome.
Some days a ago I I had to bail out above the enemy base. The ack was down and none of the GV:s seemed to notice me, so I walked beside the runway nearby the fighter spawn point. Suddenly there was a rolling fighter and I took one shot at it with the hand gun, saw a flash, but nothing else. A minute or two later I got a kill message... one of my squad mates told me on the vox that he had shot that plane with 30mm cannon!!!!! ... he only got the assist while I got the kill!!!
It is a pity that I dont have any film of it, although I dont know if it would help.
....
Soon after that I noticed something small in the end of the runway and began walking towards it... someone had spawned with a bomber and bailed out immediately. He took a shot at me with his hand gun and I hear a hit (ping), but stayed alive and returned a killing shot at him :D True western style shootout. Well.. he got me the second time :)
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Hi,
the same situation was, when I was shot a Tiger (20mm from my La-7).
No result - of course.
1 min later I take a kill .... Tiger was shot down by 2 or 3 our PzkwIV.
I think, the situation on this matter is:
"When You shot 1 bullet first - You got a kill..."
New Bug?
Brgds
Lolo aka 1olo
315 SQ Polish
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Belive what you will. But he who does the most damage gets the kill.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Belive what you will. But he who does the most damage gets the kill.
HiTech
It's true also for GV ?
Last night I put 2*1000 lbs on a tank and someone who strafed the panzer got the kill. I don't think a spit can make a lot of damages on a pzr well not more than 2 thousand lbs bombs.
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I see it daily. I hit something pretty good with 50s, and some guy comes in with cannon and he gets the kill. Seems to me the guy who does most damage gets awarded.
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what i hate is when you see a plane unharmed and shoot off it's wings and tail and get assist. :mad: :furious
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Originally posted by megadud
what i hate is when you see a plane unharmed and shoot off it's wings and tail and get assist. :mad: :furious
Probably because one of us is behind you ready to shoot the hell out of it on its way down. ;)
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Anybody who tries to pop a cap in a plane that's rolling down the runway deserves the kill and some sort of award.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by hitech
Belive what you will. But he who does the most damage gets the kill.
HiTech
Well HiTech, sorry if you are upset about it, but could you at least offer some speculation or explanation on that handgun episode?
Could I have hit the pilot and taken most hitpoints from the pilot and the that 30mm also hit the pilot and only got the remaining points? It does not seem very likely though that the pilot would have taken off wounded and fought for a minute or two, but who knows...
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So...what if a Spit hits some bombers with his .303's, takes out a flap and rudder. I come in with my Tiffie and rip the wing to hell and back and it starts on fire.... Spit comes in for a second pass, (seeing the easy kill), and takes off the guys wing. Do I have the kill or the Spit.... :confused:
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I see it daily. I hit something pretty good with 50s, and some guy comes in with cannon and he gets the kill. Seems to me the guy who does most damage gets awarded.
And that is a big reason not to take a plane that is armed with 50 cals. The American 50 cal armed planes are not as effective in Main Arcade gameplay as cannons. Certainly the guns package is a big reason I select any ride.
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HiTech I would luv to believe you but have had so many circumstances where I have litterally cut a plane in half with MG's and then somebody else puts a ping on him as hes crashing into the ground and gets my kill. Same thing on buffs, I have cut wings off em, set em on fire, all kinds of crap, only to see someone dive down and put a ping on em and kill them... Have even had a few where I shoot until the other plane explodes and I still get an assist because joe blow pinged an aleron off him.... Maybe I am misunderstanding the damage factor. I am under the impression that if I fire 10 rounds and take a fighters tail off and he's falling then someone else comes in and shoots 100 rounds but doesn't converge enough to do any noticable damage does he get the kill ? Let me re-phrase... Is it the the most hits, no matter where or how much damage it causes or is it actuall damage, such as a wing being blown off or a tail being blown off that counts for the kill... So as to say plane A shoots 5 ea 20mm's, and blows a planes wings off. Then plane B dives down and fires ( spray and pray ) 500 rounds and gets hits all over the plane, but doesn't actually do any damage.... who gets the kill ?
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I see it daily. I hit something pretty good with 50s, and some guy comes in with cannon and he gets the kill. Seems to me the guy who does most damage gets awarded.
good point, anytime I see a gv I try and be the 1st person to put rounds on it just for that purpose, i don't care if I'm using .303's firing them at a T34, all I have to do is put a few pings on it, then wait for someone to drop a bomb on it and i get the kill, at least the majority of the time
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Originally posted by BlauK
Well HiTech, sorry if you are upset about it, but could you at least offer some speculation or explanation on that handgun episode?
Could I have hit the pilot and taken most hitpoints from the pilot and the that 30mm also hit the pilot and only got the remaining points? It does not seem very likely though that the pilot would have taken off wounded and fought for a minute or two, but who knows...
You hit the pilot causing fatal injuries that would have resulted in the death of the pilot no matter if someone else came along and removed the wing or blew up the plane with a 30mm cannon burst.
ack-ack
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i'm not one to whine about things on BBS but i was MA doing my usual pwnage in my spit 16 so i see a 109. i go to shoot him and i catch him on fire. i took my eye off him for maybe 30 seconds then folled him watching him burn. He was after a buff so maybe the buff got a ping or 2 on him but he was unharmed whenh i caught him on fire. no one touched him after that. He stops burning and plumbits into the ground and i get a freakin assist. It was some of the biggest BS i have ever seen in this game! :mad:
if your system is right then you need to change it. someone can pelt a plane with bbs and it is fine not smoking or missing anything and i blow him up and get assist>? does that make any sense at all?
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which brings me back to my question, is it the guy that sprays and prays and sees about 200 total pings that hit the plane in diff. positions, or is it the guy who takes off the planes tail with 2-3 rounds that gets the kill.... for example... I'm flying along and come across a bad guy, i do a quick acm and fire 5-10 round burst that takes his wing or tail off... now as he is falling to the ground another plane comes in a sprays all over the place, hitting the falling plane but not converged, causing no real damage, but say he lands 200 hits... who gets the kill ?
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What I seem to have a problem with is shooting the kee rap out of a plane, cannon and machinve gun pings all over the puppy, sometimes parts falling off, and I don't even get an assist.
And every once in a while I get a kill, and have no idea where it came from??? Not a proximity kill, just a kill and no bogey near me. Pretty rare, but it happens once or twice a month.
But the shooting the kee rap out of a bogey and not getting an assist is quite common.
Also, I have shot up a gv, the dude isn't even smoking, some guy lands a rocket or a bomb on him and I get the kill??? Not to often, but it does happen.
All it all, I take it as just part of the game :)
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AKFoder... I experience the same problems... let me ask you this, are u playing on dialup... I am. I know this isn't supposed to have anything to do with anything, just like it doesn't apply when collisions occur and 1 plane walks away untouched( cough, cough, wink, wink ) Sometimes I'll shoot ppl down, get no message, then go land and the points are there, so many times this has happened, 1 sorty I know i had 2 kills, didn't get credit for either, landed, didn't get a kill message, but had 8 perk points from last sorty...
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I have a High Speed cable modem with about 95ms or so ping
Athlon 3200+ 1.5GB RAM, 256MB graphics card.
I only have about 17 services running when I start the game.
WinXP Pro :)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You hit the pilot causing fatal injuries that would have resulted in the death of the pilot no matter if someone else came along and removed the wing or blew up the plane with a 30mm cannon burst.
How likely do you think it that he would have started rolling after getting wounded? At least I would have exited immediately in such situation... or at latest after rolling 1/2 runway (away from the pistolero). Now he took off and fought for some time in air before getting hit with a 30mm cannon.
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Originally posted by hitech
Belive what you will. But he who does the most damage gets the kill.
HiTech
Sooo not true! :( So i see a zero flying around looked like perfect kill. So i go for it (didn't look like he had damage) i had lghey i hit is wing if fell off and he fell to ground and i get assist..
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Originally posted by BlauK
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You hit the pilot causing fatal injuries that would have resulted in the death of the pilot no matter if someone else came along and removed the wing or blew up the plane with a 30mm cannon burst.
How likely do you think it that he would have started rolling after getting wounded? At least I would have exited immediately in such situation... or at latest after rolling 1/2 runway (away from the pistolero). Now he took off and fought for some time in air before getting hit with a 30mm cannon.
Maybe they had auto-take off enabled. The point is, like HiTech pointed out (and since some of you seem to forget, programmed this game) the one that deals the most damage is the one that gets the kill.
Let's use an example that someone used about starting a fire on their target plane and only getting an assist. Sure, they may have started the fire by puncturing the fuel tanks but it wasn't a fatal hit. Now comes this other friendly plane and fires at the damaged target and blows off a wing and gets the kill while the other guy is stuck with an assist. Who did the most damage? The guy that poked a few holes in the fuel tank or the guy that removed the wing?
It isn't about putting the most rounds into the target, it's about putting the rounds were they will do the most damage. If you want to increase your chances of a kill, aim for the vital areas. Put your rounds in the engine area, cockpit/wing root area or the tail. Solid bursts in those areas will almost always grant you the kill and not the guy that comes in and gets off the one burst and takes what would have been your kill. Works for me and I usually never average more than 20-25 assists per tour.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Sniffle
Sooo not true! :( So i see a zero flying around looked like perfect kill. So i go for it (didn't look like he had damage) i had lghey i hit is wing if fell off and he fell to ground and i get assist..
He obviously was damaged more severly than you thought before you engaged. Game working as designed.
ack-ack
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Are 100 bullet hits spread over the plane equivalent to 100 bullet hits in a single spot?
Do localized hits increase the damage counted?
Perhaps the algorithm should count damage up until the point where the aircraft can no longer sustain controlled flight (dead engine is still controlled flight). At this point the kill is awarded to the pilot that inflicted the most damage.
This would certainly eliminate the kills awarded for pinging a plane on the way down.
Of course if the enemy lands successfully there should be no kill.
Anyway, I imagine damage modeling is non-trivial, especially where network latency is a factor.
-MrD
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
He obviously was damaged more severly than you thought before you engaged. Game working as designed.
ack-ack
No damage vis
Musta had pw but i know i took wing off nobody near me or the zeke..
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Originally posted by MrDick
Are 100 bullet hits spread over the plane equivalent to 100 bullet hits in a single spot?
No. 100 bullets spread all over the place will make a lot of holes that will piss off the ground crew that has to repair them. Might get lucky and have one of those rounds become a "Golden BB" but the odds aren't looking good.
100 rounds in a single spot will however make the pilots life come to an end.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Sniffle
Sooo not true! :( So i see a zero flying around looked like perfect kill. So i go for it (didn't look like he had damage) i had lghey i hit is wing if fell off and he fell to ground and i get assist..
OK lets see.... he wrote the code but you want to argue with him about how it works.
Wow you the man. you know more then the father of the game.
Why cant you guys take it as fact when HT and Co. speak about the game?
Sheese
:rofl
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It seems to me that the experten shots in the game who only take a few shots and fatally wound a plane get stitched up elevator shots are my favourite.
The guy is dead going down but the trigger mashers think oh god look an easy kill thinking that the guy is still alive break him into several pieces and get credit. This annoys the hell out of me because when i know he is down im looking for my next kill. Yea you can call that hes down on vox but people still do it.
Seems like sometimes its the amount of pings registered so i suggest you make sure you put enough lead in so there is no debating who got the kill.
Bruv
~S~
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I just love blowing the tail off of someone and watching them spiral down to their deaths and then one of my brave comrades swoops down and fires a huge burst into the ALREADY DEAD PLANE, stealing the kill. It has happened 3 times to me THIS WEEK. I know it’s more realistic to have a plane go out of control after getting shot up, but its also incredibly gamey to give a kill to someone that basically shoots an already dead plane. Don’t tell me I need to shoot planes more...If I blow the tail or a wing off someone and they are not in control of their planes, I should get that kill no matter how much damage someone puts into it AFTER the fact. It’s different if someone is previously damaged, I understand that.
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Well, I dont doubt HiTech's word about how the system is supposed to work, I am only arguing about how it appears so that I could understand what is going around with these kills and assists.
Like I suggested earlier, maybe I wounded the pilot with my hand gun, but did I then take most point out from the pilot? Is it possible that the 30mm round also hit only the pilot and therefore got only the remaining points? Would it not also cause damage to other parts?
Are these "hit points considered" as total of all the possible plane parts and the pilot? Or are each parts considered separately? Does the pilot include so many points that wounding him with a handgun can count as more severe than the hit of 30mm into the plane?
It is fully logical with the current system that a plane can be filled with lots of damage, but it still looks ok and flies ok. Then someone puts in one more bullet and the points are spent, target explodes, last guy gets the assist and the one who put in most damage gets the kill. But how does this same logic work with the handgun vs 30mm example? I simply have hard time trying to figure how such thing is calculated.
I am no accusing anyone of anything, just writing about my own observation, which seems like it could be caused by some bug or by some other external thing. If there is a logical explanation to this, I have no worries... there is nothing to fix. But if there is no good explanation, then maybe there is something that has been previously overlooked and could be fixed.
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if you want we can go to the DA tonight (22:00 CET ) to do some test && films.
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Lol, I have named the 30mm as a "CWOTAE, complete waste of time and effort"
Try to get that stiff 109 to bend into a single favorable angle and pop a tater on a LaNikSpits wing and happily see him spin into ground without a wing only to receive "Assist on LuckyTaterCatcher". Or strafe a Tiger with .50s or 20mm and fly away waiting for some PzIV or Tiger guy to blow him up and get an assist as YOU get a kill in a fighter.
Sure BlauK is a lier then? He's been here since year 2000 and a part of a very skilled squad and hardly one of those who go around whining and moaning how the game sucks if their personal skills are lacking. And then HT honors us by dropping by saying "Believe what you will"?!?!? Thats just too cool. "Thanks for being our customer for five years but we think this is the answer you deserve at best." :aok
Plus some fanboy who has hardly fired a 30mm online chimes in claiming that to be normal. There IS a big difference between .50 Cal and 30mm, ya know. Firstly you only have 60 pcs of the latter, seconly it is hard as hell to hit with those on a maneuvering target. And if they do not do what they are supposed to, then there is obviously something broken, dont' you think.
If a plane catches a fire its not critical? You gotta be kidding me...
:mad:
-C+
PS. To remind you what we are talking about:
http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/weapon/mk108blenheim.jpg
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Originally posted by Charge
Sure BlauK is a lier then? He's been here since year 2000 and a part of a very skilled squad
Huh? Who said that BlauK was a liar? Stop being needlessly defensive. I'm going to guess that in this situation, something freaky occurred that played to the system's weakness. Perhaps killing the pilot occurs before doing plane damage, so if you hit the pilot he dies and goes to the tower before the game figures out how much damage you did to the plane itself. If that's the case, then someone who popped a .45 into the cockpit and already wounded the pilot would receive a kill rather than the guy who shot a 30mm into the cockpit and ended the pilot's life before the game considered other damage accumulation.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Scootter
OK lets see.... he wrote the code but you want to argue with him about how it works.
Wow you the man. you know more then the father of the game.
Why cant you guys take it as fact when HT and Co. speak about the game?
Sheese
:rofl
Maybe its a bug?...
Arrrg..
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I smell a bug somewhere.
Last night I strafed an already damaged tiger in a Ki84 (only with MG) to help a country mate (in a GV) spot the tiger.
And I was awarded the kill.
IMO the sequence to check is :
player 1 make a lot of damage and get killed
player 2 make light damage
player 3 finnish the work
Look like player 2 got his + player 1 damage.
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Originally posted by BlauK
I have been in belief that the one who does most damage gets the kill. Still in many occasions I have doubted it. Now finally I cannot believe it anymore, or there are just some other occasional factors effecting the outcome.
Some days a ago I I had to bail out above the enemy base. The ack was down and none of the GV:s seemed to notice me, so I walked beside the runway nearby the fighter spawn point. Suddenly there was a rolling fighter and I took one shot at it with the hand gun, saw a flash, but nothing else. A minute or two later I got a kill message... one of my squad mates told me on the vox that he had shot that plane with 30mm cannon!!!!! ... he only got the assist while I got the kill!!!
It would be possible for you to get the kill if the pilot who actually did the most damage had "died" long enough before your victim.............
This quite often happens when two ac die as a result of headons......the last one to die can have his kill awarded to some one who only pinged him some time prior the "final" incident.
and of course if the hapless fellow augered with your pistol shot as the only damage.....
The confusing statement above is the claim of the squad mate who
A) claims to have been awarded an assist
B)claims to have hit with a 30mm round.
I believe that damage is added and kills awarded from maths performed on the victims FE............ I can only surmise that the victims FE never recieved a 30mm hit packet from your squad mate.............maybe he recieved none at all or maybe he recieved just a 13mm hit packet and maths decided that the part of the ac you hit was more critical or maybe indeed your squad mate got an assist for someone else entirely
I note your squad mate does not claim to have despatched the victim.
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Tilt,
he finished the plane, but I dont know if the plane exploded or just lost parts and crashed. I have asked about it... we'll see.
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Are 100 bullet hits spread over the plane equivalent to 100 bullet hits in a single spot?
As far as scoreing goes. Yes theyare equal.
I agree about stoping score after a plane is none recoverable. I.E. missing an entire wing.
As to the example how it is scored.
Chute hit pilot leavng very little damage left to be done to kill the pilot. As an example 45 cal does 50 points damage. And 40 is aplied to the pilot wound. Now lets say another 10 points is required to kill the pilot.
The next bullet that hits the pilot would do that 10 damage , at witch time the plane is killied and the kill awarded. So the 45 did 50 and the other guy 10.
The bullets that strike after the pilot is dead would not be counted.
But do to lag you would not see the plane explode for some amout of time, and continue to see hits on the plane.
HiTech
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Thanks for the explanation :) It sounds possible that the 30mm has just by a chance been a pilot hit.
But lets assume it was not a direct pilot hit... if the 30mm hit just nearby the pilot, would it be counted also by how much damage it made to the cockpit, or some other parts (e.g. 100 points) plus what it did to remaining pilot (those 10 points). Would the 30mm shooter then get the kill?
.. or would the pilot get killed before the damage is applied to the cockpit or nearby area? ...thus resulting only as assist with those 10 points?
In other words, does the damage get counted simultaneously to all areas that are hit by the same shot?
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Am I wrong in thinking a wing hit next to the cockpit, strictly damages the wing, and even though close it doesnt share the damage to the cockpit, no matter how big the blast?
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I would really like to get an assist if I ping up a plane, and some else gets the kill before my hit packets arrive.
I dive on a bogey, light him up like a christmas tree, the bogey blows up, and I don't even get an assist. And I think that is because the bogey is registered dead before my hit packets arrive.
Not that you get any perkie points for assists. But it would be nice to get some credit.
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Maybe have it where if you get 2+ Assists it will say: Username Landed # Assists in a PLANE of SQUAD.