Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: cav58d on November 16, 2005, 03:02:34 PM
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Any chance of getting 1/4 or 1/2 perks for assist?
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In addition correct me if Im wrong but in WWII to 1/2 assist = a kill right?
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And you would think having guys chase crippled enemy down to the
ground to killsteal now is bad :rolleyes:
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While it does seem like a good idea, you can only guess how the masses would game it.
Everyone would do all they can to try to land hits on any airplane. Any airplane, no matter who is on it, how many are on it, and where it is will gain more and more chasers to chase it down and just land hits.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone would do all they can to try to land hits on any airplane. Any airplane, no matter who is on it, how many are on it, and where it is will gain more and more chasers to chase it down and just land hits.
Sounds pretty much how it is now lol. I think those that steal kills will continue to do so, and those that don't, won't. If the assist serves no real purpose, why even have it? All it does is aggrivate me by taunting the fact that I hit the bastage, but not good enough, thx for playing :mad:
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If we got points for assists, then it should only be 1 assist allowedfor kill. So the one who does the most damage gets the kill, and the second most gets an assist. That would work for me.
In WWII, you could have 1/2 and 1/3 kills, which were assists.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
While it does seem like a good idea, you can only guess how the masses would game it.
Everyone would do all they can to try to land hits on any airplane. Any airplane, no matter who is on it, how many are on it, and where it is will gain more and more chasers to chase it down and just land hits.
Not too bad to have a bunch of guys surrendering their altitude & not watching their tails while they chase a cripple with predictable flight path
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The whole "don't shhot my kill" thing is overrated. It seems that some of the best in the game will check-six you when you're on a con, or hop in front of you to snag your kill; God forbid you return the favor a minute later! Then they cry on local about n00b kill-stealers.
I like the idea of assist perks for that reason: I can hit an LA with my Zero's 20mms a whole bunch of times, have some "good stick" pop in front of me in his Spit and steal the kill because he hits a wing with his 3 rounds and all I did was light up the rest of the plane? Heck, sign me up!
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at first i was in the camp that said this would cause probs... but you know, such a program might actually encourage some to fly early war planes with a light punch like 109E, 202, spit & hurri1. as it stands now you get a ton of assists but very few kills in these rides... a little compensation would promote their usage.
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I thought you did get points for assists, granted probably not even .50 of a perk, but I believe if you land with at least 1 confirmed kill and an assist you will get a point for the assist.
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There should be X amount of perks per kill. X should be determined by What plane each is driving, and who got how many hits. The majority of hits is awarded the kill, but the perks are awarded by percentage of hits and is divided among those who landed hits.
I
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
at first i was in the camp that said this would cause probs... but you know, such a program might actually encourage some to fly early war planes with a light punch like 109E, 202, spit & hurri1. as it stands now you get a ton of assists but very few kills in these rides... a little compensation would promote their usage.
CC on this, I am getting about 2 kills for every assist with the Hurri Mk1. The lighter punch birds are an odd lot. Sometimes I will light a plane up and saw a wing off....assist. While other times I have not done any apparent damage, but still get the kill later. I think the game is correct in counting these it's just odd sometimes :)
BTW the Hurri Mk1 is a killer ;) Get them at your conv setting and watch stuff fall of with every tap of the trigger :aok
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Originally posted by zorstorer
CC on this, I am getting about 2 kills for every assist with the Hurri Mk1. The lighter punch birds are an odd lot. Sometimes I will light a plane up and saw a wing off....assist. While other times I have not done any apparent damage, but still get the kill later. I think the game is correct in counting these it's just odd sometimes :)
BTW the Hurri Mk1 is a killer ;) Get them at your conv setting and watch stuff fall of with every tap of the trigger :aok
65 kills for 23 assists so far for me in Hurri1.
Get the convergence really close (mines at 175). This will put your main shooting range into the 'best punch range' of the 303s. Get very close and aim for cockpit. A 200 bullet burst (100 out of each set of guns) blows a 110 up.
I tried offline to set the convergence at 400 and shoot drones at that range. It doesnt seem to have the same 'punch' as it has at closer range. But maybe its just more difficult to hold the bullets on one point for the second you need to kill. Or its just my **** aim :D.
Avoid green hordes in those rides. every green icon around is a 'potential kill stealer' (and i dont neccessarily mean that in a bad way - theyre just faster on target and faster on kill).
zorstorer: i agree fully! PERK THE HURRI MK1!!!!
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LOL Schatzi :) It's good to find the other Hurri Mk1 killer out there....you know between us this tour we have about half of all Hurri Mk1 kills?? I am at 95 kills and i think 35 assists :D
Rog on the conv, I usually have it set for 150 and 175, for those close and dirty kills :) Though for the past few days I set them both out to 300 to try to extend the killing range. I am still getting the kills though I am not the one to bring them down.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
LOL Schatzi :) It's good to find the other Hurri Mk1 killer out there....you know between us this tour we have about half of all Hurri Mk1 kills?? I am at 95 kills and i think 35 assists :D
Rog on the conv, I usually have it set for 150 and 175, for those close and dirty kills :) Though for the past few days I set them both out to 300 to try to extend the killing range. I am still getting the kills though I am not the one to bring them down.
LoL, since im on my own half the time, having someone else get the plane down for me is not really an option ;). BTW, i love getting up close and personal way too much to kill from 'afar'...hehe.
BTW, wich country do you fly for? We can wing some if you want to :). Maybe we can get Four to come along.... three Hurri1-o-Doom bring terror to the MA :D.
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Hi Schatzi... I wasn't saying kills were impossible in those rides at all... But for the majority of us mortals with the current MA environment it would be an incentive to take a chance on these planes more often.
A couple of years ago I flew the hurri1 extensively and I agree that it IS a killer. However being that the MA is primarily a late-war environment most cons need only pour on the coal and easily run away from the very early planes and when isolated give them the "wash, rinse, repeat" boom and zoom treatment.
After thinking about this awhile I hoped that SOME level of assist perks would help encourage wider use of the early war planes for the masses.
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Well, another option for early-war birds is to add to the arena selections. Have a dedicated early war, mid-war, and late war arena (I'd REALLY like to have a dedicated ETO/PTO arena).
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Hi Schatzi... I wasn't saying kills were impossible in those rides at all... But for the majority of us mortals with the current MA environment it would be an incentive to take a chance on these planes more often.
A couple of years ago I flew the hurri1 extensively and I agree that it IS a killer. However being that the MA is primarily a late-war environment most cons need only pour on the coal and easily run away from the very early planes and when isolated give them the "wash, rinse, repeat" boom and zoom treatment.
After thinking about this awhile I hoped that SOME level of assist perks would help encourage wider use of the early war planes for the masses.
I was actually just chiming in on Zorstorers mention of the Hurri1. I cant resist where that plane is concerned..... forgive me for hijacking the thread :).
I never assumed you saying the early war birds make kills impossible. Trust me, i know they arent. But i also know, that flying those planes in the MA as it is now requires a high resistance for frustration and the willingness to subject yourself to fighting from the disadvantage. I have TBMs running from me every day ;).
On that perk for assist idea. I dont think it would make much of a difference, but i wouldnt mind.
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Skuzzy/Hitech....Do you guys have any opinions on partial perks for assists?
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Skuzzman? HT?
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I can see people switching to .303s in those group chases when they know they aren't going to get the kill so they can get a perkie assist by spraying with machine guns and saving their 20mm for a real fight if they accidently got into one. Much less likely to killshooter ones self shooting over someones shoulder with 303s.
Thumbs down
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I like the suggestion of Full perks for the kill....... .50 or .25 perks for the leading assist...
HTC...please leave your opinion
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I'd say a better idea would be to get a little more consistent on who gets the kill credit. Couple times now I've shot the wing off a guy someone else spent a couple minutes peppering with hits and got the kill (or had it done to me). And then other times I do the same thing and don't even bag an assist out of it.
What criteria do they go by? Who gets the most hits? Apparently not in all cases, as guys armed with .303's can attest. Who causes the most critical damage? Also apparently not always, as I've had it go both ways.
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I think GV's are the worst...Especially Flaks...I can turret a flak in one pass, and totally disable its ability to kill airplanes, and some dweeb can come and constantly straff with any ammo for a pass or two before the Flak tours out and he will get the kill
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IMO they should go by type of damage. If someone causes some seriously critical damage (blowing out an engine/wing, or knocking out the turret/tracks, etc) that guy should get the kill. 'Cause some planes can soak up round after round and not go down if it's not to critical areas.
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We still have a problem there. It seems that damage is NOT standard! :O An example:You can be in a buff at 30k, puffy ack coming from the ground can take out the TOP gun turret, yet do no damage to another part of the plane. So, for some reason, I don't know why, damage is not standard or logical to the location you shoot at. In a GV, I've hit a tank in the center front (from another GV) and seen I had taken out a track. That makes no sense to me.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I'd say a better idea would be to get a little more consistent on who gets the kill credit. Couple times now I've shot the wing off a guy someone else spent a couple minutes peppering with hits and got the kill (or had it done to me). And then other times I do the same thing and don't even bag an assist out of it.
What criteria do they go by? Who gets the most hits? Apparently not in all cases, as guys armed with .303's can attest. Who causes the most critical damage? Also apparently not always, as I've had it go both ways.
Originally posted by hitech
Kill awarding is based on total damaged applied. Damage can be applied with out the plane loosing any parts.
Damage also changes with range so 2 20 mm hits at close range could do more damage than 8 50 cal hits at longer range.
R4M is not correct pilot kills are no different than any other damage.
Assist are not meeningless they help in your point total.
HiTech
Originally posted by hitech
The system now awards the kill to the person who does the most damage, not how many pings. There is damage done even if the plane is still flying. If you got an assist, it meens that some one else did more damage to the plane than you did, you just happen to put in the last bullet.
As far as the original topic, I agree with rino. No. (and I do get above average assist per kill, and per sortie every tour.)
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I would like to see perk awards for assists as well as a landing announcement............
However it would have to be structured to avoid daisy chaining.............
IMO to get an assist you should have inflicted more than 30% damage.
IMO to get a kill you should have inflicted more than 60% damage.
Hence a bogie may die and only assists be awarded (upto 3)
Landed statements should only be made if 2 or more perks have been earned(may be 3?)
"Goober (SpitIX) awarded 3 kills, 3 assists"
Here the easy 2 kills in an La7 will rarely see a landing announce ment where as 1 kill in a Spit 1 probably will and 3 assists in a Spit1 will be rewarded also.
Once you link the landing announcements to perks earned you can also do other stuff.....
2 to 5 perks local announcement
5 to 10 perks country announcement
10 perks and over arena announcement
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I still think more weight should be given to how critical the damage is, not by the amount. As I said, you could tear up the fuselage of some aircraft and the guy might not even notice. Then someone else comes along, inflicts his "30% for an assist" that tears the wing off (Jugs and IL2s are good examples of this). I see the "official" stance as it is now, but who do YOU think deserves the kill? The guy who inflicted the most, but effectively meaningless, damage, or the one who may not have torn up as much of the plane, but put his shots in the right spot to cause the most critical damage?
That'd be a GOOD way to put a stop to the guys racing to fill a falling enemy with holes as he's spiraling wingless to his doom.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I still think more weight should be given to how critical the damage is, not by the amount. As I said, you could tear up the fuselage of some aircraft and the guy might not even notice. Then someone else comes along, inflicts his "30% for an assist" that tears the wing off (Jugs and IL2s are good examples of this). I see the "official" stance as it is now, but who do YOU think deserves the kill? The guy who inflicted the most, but effectively meaningless, damage, or the one who may not have torn up as much of the plane, but put his shots in the right spot to cause the most critical damage?
That'd be a GOOD way to put a stop to the guys racing to fill a falling enemy with holes as he's spiraling wingless to his doom.
That is the odd thing about total damage, and I think HT weighed in on this before. I cant remember what the outcome was. I have plinked planes in my Hurri Mk1 and not done any damage, but ended up getting the kill when they were killed later.
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Bad Idea.
Only thing this would bring on is 9 dweebs shooting a plane going down all the way to the ground.
Only way it might work if there was a certain % of damage before a plane lost all it's fighting ability - after that point no perkies would be awarded.
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ya man i hate assist i nail a guys and blow him to 20 million scraps and i get a assist its like wth i dont c how any one can CONFLICK more damage then that. this has happend more then once. is there any suggestions on where the most damage is on a plane. to get kill.
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Well then a kill should be reported IMMEDIATELY after a critical piece that a plane can absolutely in no possible way fly without is shot off (ENTIRE wings, the tail, etc).
Again, as it stands now, in theory it's whoever causes the greatest % of damage. If they counted who caused the most CRITICAL damage, then the kill would have already been recorded and there'd be no need for the scavengers to pick the carcass as it's going down.
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If two assists in WWII equaled a kill, then assists should be awarded with half or quarter perks...BUT...perks would only be awarded to the leading damage % assister
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What critical elements could be used to stop the damage count early?
Loss of wing
Loss of tail
Loss of vert stab
Loss of both elevators
Loss of both aelerons
any others? or are some of the above still recoverable?
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Wing would have to be full wing, as I've flown an F4U a couple times with half of one wing shot off.
Pilot, obviously, although I think that's already automatically a kill.
I think if the engine is shot out the damage count should stop, but NOT be automatically rung up as a kill, unless someone else actually shoots the plane into the ground. The guy who hit the engine still gets the kill (as he took the plane out of the fight). However if the pilot manages to glide to safety or nurse a crippled engine home no kill is recorded (which is where it stands now, I believe).
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I've got assists before with an Osti and they definitely died from the 37mm hit. :furious
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ya thats another thing when u shoot a guys vertival stab off he flys in the air saying free kills guys and who ever get the most shots usually gets the kill. have happend to me several times.
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This wouldn't work, if it was put in you'd want it taken out after a day. Picture it, you shoot the tail off a Spit at 10k, he starts his freefall. By the time he's down to 5k he's got 8 guys trying to pepper a few rounds into him to get the assists perks. It would turn the MA into a rediculous torrent of lame-duck shootists.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Saxman
Well then a kill should be reported IMMEDIATELY after a critical piece that a plane can absolutely in no possible way fly without is shot off (ENTIRE wings, the tail, etc).
Here is the answer to that from the man himself.
Originally posted by hitech
You can not award the kill at the time of damage. The outcome of the flight has still not been determined. The odds are he will crash and die,but that is not always the case.
But I have lost wings at times near ground and ended up with a ditch by luck.
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
Originally posted by Tilt
What critical elements could be used to stop the damage count early?
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Yes
Yes
Yes
No. I landed a 38 missing both elevators, pilot wounded, and left engine within the past 2 weeks.
No. I have a film from within the last 2 months of continuing to evade a P51 after he took my reamaining aeliron off for at least 2 minutes, and eventually rtb'd 20 miles away
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I believe so long as plane can maintain a measure of controled flight, damage tracking should continue.
HiTech has also said in the past that he doesnt believe the issue is prevailent enough to be worth the work of making such a change.
And Saxman...what happens when you shoot an engine out of a plane, and you die while it is gliding away? You will really have some ticked off people when nobody gets the kill because damage tracking had stopped. No doubt that can be a partial reason for ht not wanting to make a change. Even in a situation where an entire wing or tail has been shot off, it may take over a minute to fall to the ground if the fight happend at high altitude. That is pleanty of time for the pilot who did the damage to go down themselves.
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I never said or implied it was a perfect solution. There'd need to be some way to make an allowance in that case (like, if the guy who knocks out the engine goes down before the glider does, restart the damage counter, or something).
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Actually I like the thought of stopping kill tracking when fatal damage has been taken, though I dont consider the loss of power one of those. You dont need power to get in that one last kill :) I was just bringing you up to date on previous discussions since the subject came up.