Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nirvana on November 16, 2005, 05:03:18 PM
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We got a German Shepard puppy last Aprl and by this time I figured he'd be able to stay in the house all day without chewing crap up. Especially since it is getting colder we just leave the dogs inside. Well not once but twice I had to yell at him, once when I got up and once when I got home. I'm out of ideas and my step dad seems to think his "little" dog is an angel. Mostly because he didn't have to clean up the dog stuff for 2 monthes. So I get home I yell "bad dog!" "NO" several times to him while showing him what he had done. Didn't seem to phase him. I don't know what to do, is yelling at him the wrong thing to do? I don't want to pull out my airsoft gun and ping him with it. I'm just extremely frustrated.
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Try to catch him, and use a squirt gun. If that doesn't work they sell this stuff that odorless except to dogs, you spray it where you don't want them to chew or piss..it works.
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Yeah but he does it while no one is home, thus you can't catch him in the act. I know German Shepards are like dalmatians and need constant attention but jeez. I seem to be the only one that thinks there is a problem. We'll see what my step dad says when he comes home to a tore apart TV controller.
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Do you have chew toys for him? His teeth are probably bothering him being a young pup and all...
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7 monthes and his teeth should still be bothering him? I guess i'll just have to pull out some of his toys.
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Originally posted by nirvana
7 monthes and his teeth should still be bothering him? I guess i'll just have to pull out some of his toys.
Dog's teeth:
Birth None
3-4 weeks Deciduous teeth coming in
6 weeks All deciduous teeth are in
3-5 months Permanent incisors coming in
5-6 months Permanent canines start to erupt and by end of 6 months are in.
6-7 Last molar in lower jaw (M3) is in
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Your first problem was getting a dog...
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Taking him over to what he's chewed up and yelling at him when you get home doesn't do anything. The dog has no idea what he's being yelled at for. He may look guilty and look like he understands, but he's just reading your body posture.
He'll need to chew on lots of things until he's almost 2. Until then, leave some knuckle bones, rawhides and various chew toys out for him. Also, make sure you do at least a little bit of training every single day. German Sheperds are herding dogs and very intelligent. Keep their mind busy and tired or they'll figure out their own games to keep occupied. Do some research on clicker training. Easy to do and the dog picks up on new things very quickly with it.
Remember, a tired dog is a happy dog so work him!!
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Originally posted by Cougar68
Taking him over to what he's chewed up and yelling at him when you get home doesn't do anything. The dog has no idea what he's being yelled at for. He may look guilty and look like he understands, but he's just reading your body posture.
You dont spend much time actually paying attention to dogs do you? LOL
They know. I know they know. And they know I know they know.
Not only do they know. But I am convinced they reason and plot their crimes and they know what they are doing is wrong even as they are doing it.
Case in point. One of my dogs LOVES bread Doesnt mater what kind he just loves it.
So one night last week I made some sausage sandwiches and happened to leave a roll on the counter. So Im sitting in the next room and out of the corner of my eye I see the dog sneaking, (yes I said sneaking) past the doorway and into the kitchen. so I quietly get up and stick my head around the corner just in time to see him get on his hind legs front paws on counter and trying to reach for the roll I had left there.
So I pull my head back and call..the cat "Psss psss psss Smokey"
All of a sudden I hear the dogs nails frantically scratching on the floor while is trying to get traction and he shoots like a rocket past the doorway tail tucked between his legs and into the my sons room. Which I thought was funny as hell.
So I go into my sons room and say really friendly to him "Whatsa matter Jeb" (The dogs name) and he is just loooking at me guilty as hell.
They know. No way you can convince me otherwise
Now maybe a puppy. like any small kid dooesnt know untill you teach them.
But once you do. They know
Dont think so? No offence but I can prove your body posture theory doesnt mean jack.
Take a dog that has been taught not to chew on something
Deliberately use the same body posture and talk to him as though he had doen nothing
and then simply show him something that he has chewed after he has chewed it and see if he doesnt know, if he doesnt slink away tailtucked.
I've had dogs my whole life. They know. They all know
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Keep all small things you do not want chewed on up out of reach.
I then found that spraying "Bitter Apple" (training aid) on stuff that my dog wanted to chew on that I didnt want him to chew on but was to big to be put up out of the way. The "Bitter Apple" dried but once his saliva re-wet the stuff he would start slobbering all over the place. He hates the stuff.
Then most other times were spent seeing what he liked to chew on and trying to catch him in the act. When caught I would trade him one of his toys for what he was chewing on and telling him that he is more than welcome to chew on what I was giving him because it is his but not to chew on my stuff.
It worked. Now he just chews stuff to get back at me when I have pissed him off. He is a smart dog and I cant blame him because in his way he is just settling the score.
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Hi Nirvana,
Don't know what parts of this you've already applied, so I apologize if this is all old hat for you.
Puppies need exercise, German Shepherd puppies need even more or they are just one big bag of nervous energy that is going to get vented one way or another. They also don't train themselves, they will need to be trained by you.
House training involves walking the dog 3-5 times a day, and ideally waiting till he does his business and then praising him to the skies for it. Lots of petting and GOOD DOGGIE! Then when he pees or poops inside, you tell him BAD DOG and wack him with a rolled up newspaper. Pretty soon even the most retarded dog figures out, "hey I poop outside I get praised, I poop inside I get punished, I'll wait till we go walkies" Just sticking to the negative reinforcement leaves them confused, "I don't get it man, I just do my business and you go completely ape. What the heck am I supposed to do?"
If you don't have the time or inclination to walk them 3-5 times a day or do the training and positive outlet stuff - throwing the ball, etc. you don't have time for a puppy or a young dog from a large breed. Take him back and get a housebroken old dog from a shelter. The kind whose only ambition is to spend the day sleeping.
- SEAGOON
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I average 1-2 hours a night (when i'm home) throwing the ball for him, he could fetch a ball all freakin day. Walks are a different story, I used to do it when he was smaller, I just lost interest. He's housebroken, he just chews on stuff endlessly. I pulled out an old duck for him to chew on but he hasn't shown any real interest in it.
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Dogs do a few things on instinct.
They eat
they crap
they chew
they bark
they pee on trees
They hump your girlfriends leg while your trying to get lucky on the couch.
they will lick there balls and then wanna kiss you.
here is how we trained our dogs.
First get a crate and put his happy arse in it and slowly let him have more space.
And as said above get him plenty of chew toys dogs are kinda like kids when bored they will get into trouble every time.
And last if not least If you dont have time to pay with him you really dont need the dog because he will be a pain in the arse for years to come.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Now maybe a puppy. like any small kid dooesnt know untill you teach them.
But once you do. They know
Dont think so? No offence but I can prove your body posture theory doesnt mean jack.
Take a dog that has been taught not to chew on something
Deliberately use the same body posture and talk to him as though he had doen nothing
and then simply show him something that he has chewed after he has chewed it and see if he doesnt know, if he doesnt slink away tailtucked.
I've had dogs my whole life. They know. They all know
LOL Great post... and may I suggest that the most malevolent pet known to man is a frikken cat that ****s in yer headphones when you piss it off.
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We had a chocolate lab and I am getting my own in the spring time. One thing we had on hand was "the can"
This was a metal can which held a few coins and if the dog was bad, you shook the can at them. Supposedly they hated the noise (said the vet) and darned if it didn't work!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
You dont spend much time actually paying attention to dogs do you? LOL
They know. I know they know. And they know I know they know.
If you catch a dog in the act, they definitely know. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you bring a dog over to a mistake he made an hour ago, they don't have any idea what you're talking about. And yes, I do pay attention to my dogs. I've been training dogs all my life and professionally for the last 4 years.
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Originally posted by Cougar68
If you catch a dog in the act, they definitely know. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you bring a dog over to a mistake he made an hour ago, they don't have any idea what you're talking about. And yes, I do pay attention to my dogs. I've been training dogs all my life and professionally for the last 4 years.
Oh yes they do.
Many was the occasion I walked in the door and went to where the dog was only to see him look at me like "Ut oh" and wondering what was up.
then walking into the kitchen and finding the garbage all over the floor.
I've also walked into the room merely holding an item that had been chewed up at some point during the day and had the dog take one look at it and get the same reaction without me doing a thing or saying a word.
I'm telling ya. they know
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http://wolf.ok.ac.kr/~annyg/english/e5.htm
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Oh yes they do.
Many was the occasion I walked in the door and went to where the dog was only to see him look at me like "Ut oh" and wondering what was up.
then walking into the kitchen and finding the garbage all over the floor.
I've also walked into the room merely holding an item that had been chewed up at some point during the day and had the dog take one look at it and get the same reaction without me doing a thing or saying a word.
I'm telling ya. they know
It's likely he was in the trash just before you walked in and had stopped when he heard you coming. Other than that, it's all body posture. I tell ya man, I've worked with loads of dogs and they just don't remember something bad they did the hour before. Their minds do not work that way.
For example, I have a two year old Collie. He can be walking along happy as can be, but if I scowl at him he flops his ears back and looks like he got caught with his best friend's wife. He didn't do anything, I just looked at him like he did. Try it with your own dog if you don't believe me.
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Originally posted by Golfer
We had a chocolate lab and I am getting my own in the spring time.
I think I once had a chocolate lab... at least that's what the Korean chef said it was.
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Originally posted by nirvana
We got a German Shepard puppy last Aprl and by this time I figured he'd be able to stay in the house all day without chewing crap up. Especially since it is getting colder we just leave the dogs inside. Well not once but twice I had to yell at him, once when I got up and once when I got home. I'm out of ideas and my step dad seems to think his "little" dog is an angel. Mostly because he didn't have to clean up the dog stuff for 2 monthes. So I get home I yell "bad dog!" "NO" several times to him while showing him what he had done. Didn't seem to phase him. I don't know what to do, is yelling at him the wrong thing to do? I don't want to pull out my airsoft gun and ping him with it. I'm just extremely frustrated.
Our Husky used to run around the backyard and not come in. I shot him once with a toned down paintbll gun. We never had the problem again. It didn't bruise him at all because of the undercoat he had (it was Winter).
Karaya
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
They know. I know they know. And they know I know they know.
They know. No way you can convince me otherwise
They know
I've had dogs my whole life. They know. They all know
You`re right. I know you are. I`m just wondering if they know that other people also knows that they know we know. Ya know?
I just don`t know. ;)
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Originally posted by Cougar68
It's likely he was in the trash just before you walked in and had stopped when he heard you coming. Other than that, it's all body posture. I tell ya man, I've worked with loads of dogs and they just don't remember something bad they did the hour before. Their minds do not work that way.
For example, I have a two year old Collie. He can be walking along happy as can be, but if I scowl at him he flops his ears back and looks like he got caught with his best friend's wife. He didn't do anything, I just looked at him like he did. Try it with your own dog if you don't believe me.
Actually no.
Wasnt the first time he'd been in the garbage.
From expeiance I cant tell you when he did it he did it right after we left the house in the morning.
I mean literally as soon as we walked out the door.
On more then a few occassions I walked back in from the car in the morning specifically because I remembered I forgot to close the gate to the kitchen to prevent exactly this and caught him dead to rights in the act not two minutes after we walked out the door.
I'll not dissagree that they respond to body posture. But they can and do think deeper then that.
And they remember
Ok for some perhaps not untill you show them what it was they did But they do remember.
Example.
sometime during the night one of the dogs (had two beagles at the time) got hold of one of my daughters stuffed animals (one of those giant ones) and shredded it. We were running real late so I didnt have tme to clean it up and simply closed the door so they couldnt get in there and make it any worse before we got home
Came home and the dogs are doing their ohboy ohboy ohboy yourhome happy dance routine.
so we greated them as we normally do having forgotten about the mess untill I saw the door closed.
So I walk over to the door to clean it up with the dogs following me as they normally do when we first get home and I open the door and walk in.
They follow me in and as soon as I reach over to start picking up the peices that are too big for the shop vac the male gets that guilty look and tucktails it out of the room and into my sons room and under the bed while the female just stood there wagging her tail.
and I hadnt said a word about it.
Not only did he know. he remembered.
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Clearly when you walk in the door and his ears flop down and he isn't jumping to greet you, he's done something wrong, he knows;)
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didn't read all, but it sounds liek seperation anexiety. thas an actual thing with dogs.
try making a CD of your voice, talking or something, and various "normal" noises, like the TV and stuff, then play it looped quietly while you are out.
you can also try a kennel when no one is home. my cousin has to huskies that are great, and when they leave for the daythe dogs just go right to their kennels. it is not a punishment, and NEVER put the dogs into it as a punishment, but only as a "wait here and i'll be back soon".
the dogs actually get used to, and enjoy them then.
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We used to leave the radio on as a calming factor when we kept him caged in the house when he was a puppy. Will have to try it again though.
Being bored seems like a plausible idea too.
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The smarter the breed the more attention you need to pay. Your Shepard is just looking for something to do. If you don't fill his time, he will.
Also Dred is right.
They know.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Actually no.
Wasnt the first time he'd been in the garbage.
From expeiance I cant tell you when he did it he did it right after we left the house in the morning.
I mean literally as soon as we walked out the door.
On more then a few occassions I walked back in from the car in the morning specifically because I remembered I forgot to close the gate to the kitchen to prevent exactly this and caught him dead to rights in the act not two minutes after we walked out the door.
I'll not dissagree that they respond to body posture. But they can and do think deeper then that.
And they remember
Ok for some perhaps not untill you show them what it was they did But they do remember.
Example.
sometime during the night one of the dogs (had two beagles at the time) got hold of one of my daughters stuffed animals (one of those giant ones) and shredded it. We were running real late so I didnt have tme to clean it up and simply closed the door so they couldnt get in there and make it any worse before we got home
Came home and the dogs are doing their ohboy ohboy ohboy yourhome happy dance routine.
so we greated them as we normally do having forgotten about the mess untill I saw the door closed.
So I walk over to the door to clean it up with the dogs following me as they normally do when we first get home and I open the door and walk in.
They follow me in and as soon as I reach over to start picking up the peices that are too big for the shop vac the male gets that guilty look and tucktails it out of the room and into my sons room and under the bed while the female just stood there wagging her tail.
and I hadnt said a word about it.
Not only did he know. he remembered.
I am with Dred on this, some dogs are damn smart. Mine is like this.
She eats the cats food, she isnt supposed to, she will look around and make sure no one is around. Walk into the area and point at the bowl an hour later and look at her and she gets the Im guilty look and the tail goes between the legs.
Some dogs are smart enough to know.
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Feed him AntiFreeze and give him a Car battery as a chew toy...
If it doesn't stop him of his antics, then you'll have the BEST dog
that will break the ice at any BBQ !
:aok
(http://www.samugliestdog.com/images/Sammagnetweb.jpg)
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Well I just don't know how else to explain it. It's conditioned behavior, body posture, etc. etc. Feel free to talk to any experienced dog trainer about how they remember what they did wrong an hour ago and they'll tell you the same thing. Has nothing to do with intelligience, it's just their behavior. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Cougar
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Originally posted by AWMac
Feed him AntiFreeze and give him a Car battery as a chew toy...
If it doesn't stop him of his antics, then you'll have the BEST dog
that will break the ice at any BBQ !
:aok
(http://www.samugliestdog.com/images/Sammagnetweb.jpg)
Damn Mac, stop posting childhood pics! Your goin to scare someone.
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Originally posted by Cougar68
Well I just don't know how else to explain it. It's conditioned behavior, body posture, etc. etc. Feel free to talk to any experienced dog trainer about how they remember what they did wrong an hour ago and they'll tell you the same thing. Has nothing to do with intelligience, it's just their behavior. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Cougar
Maybe you just havnt trained many smart dogs!:rofl
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Only get on him when he's doing it..
Some don't understand what they've done in the past..
Get him a chew toy that you give him for him to chew on only when your gone, a nyla bone or something, of course supervise him with it first..
Also, to keep him busy, buy a black kong..
Fill it with cream cheese and peanut butter, and freeze it..
If you put just one or the other he'll either have the runs or be stopped up, so you gotta do both..
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Maybe you just havnt trained many smart dogs!:rofl
LMAO
Actually I would agree with him on young dogs say a year or less. but as they get older they know. they remember.
I have come to several conclusions with dogs
All dogs are dumb and smart.
some dogs are smart in some areas and dumb in others and other dogs and dumb in some areas and smart in others.
But they all as they grow older figure out how to,
Plan and plot.
Sneak,
Reason
deceive and practice trickery, particularly on each other( witness this on almost a daily basis)
Problem solve.
Remember
And know.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
LOL Great post... and may I suggest that the most malevolent pet known to man is a frikken cat that ****s in yer headphones when you piss it off.
heheheh I remember the posts you used to make about the battles with the cat....
:rofl
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Maybe you just havnt trained many smart dogs!:rofl
Well, since I have a border collie and two rough collies, I'll disagree. :) I've always like the herding dogs because of their intellegience. They've just got that look behind their eyes that tells you there's something going on.
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As much as I love dogs, the only thing dumber than a dog is two of them....
My regards,
Widewing
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When Bailey was a puppy,I could always tell when I got home from work if she had chewed something she wasn't supposed to-her tail would be tucked.
Dred is right.
They know.
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Collies are Tards..... you've been watchin too many ol Black and White Lassie reruns with Timmy crying. Let go of your apron and get a "Real Mans" dog.
Lab
Goldie
Shepard
Wiemie
Stay away from the physco dogs.
Pitts
anything Russian
Skuzzies
Of course you'll let the wifey have one of them lil "ribbions in the hair, painted nails, special meal... dogs... not even in the category of "Canine".
Those are PP&K dogs...Punt, Pass and Kick.
:rofl
Mac
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Originally posted by AWMac
Collies are Tards..... you've been watchin too many ol Black and White Lassie reruns with Timmy crying. Let go of your apron and get a "Real Mans" dog.
Surely you're not serious? Ever spent any time around a good collie? They're perfectly content to lay by my side and watch tv, but as soon as I say "jump" they're up and ready to whatever I ask. I've had labs, rotties, beagles, mutts and a few in between. The collies and border collie are hands down the best I've ever known.
Unfortunately I'm headed out of town for the weekend now, but I'll look forward to coming back to this on monday. :)
Cougar
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Other option..
Which you shoulda done along time ago..
Crate Train...
:furious
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Originally posted by nirvana
We got a German Shepard puppy last Aprl and by this time I figured he'd be able to stay in the house all day without chewing crap up. Especially since it is getting colder we just leave the dogs inside. Well not once but twice I had to yell at him, once when I got up and once when I got home. I'm out of ideas and my step dad seems to think his "little" dog is an angel. Mostly because he didn't have to clean up the dog stuff for 2 monthes. So I get home I yell "bad dog!" "NO" several times to him while showing him what he had done. Didn't seem to phase him. I don't know what to do, is yelling at him the wrong thing to do? I don't want to pull out my airsoft gun and ping him with it. I'm just extremely frustrated.
http://www.germanshephards.com
Go to their forums..
You'll get assraped for not having her trained but.. you'll get great advice.
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I had a great dog until two years ago, a rat terrier.
That littl ebugger was amazingly smart, and also a demon when it wanted to be.
Potty training was a beotch and required lots of praise and using a room while gone. She took to that, and then only went in the house when mad at me, or when she could hold it no more because I was late, then she used the shower mat, and I was ok with it, as it was easy to clean.
Her best was stealing things, and she was adept at this task, and moved the hiding spots very frequently. I tolerated this, as she mostly only stole my pens, chap sticks, and money I left out. I learned not to leave them out, so she took to just hiding her toys, which she had lots of.
The hardest thing I had to do, was keep her out of my old girlfriend's cats litter box. Rosie (dog's name) would sneak into that damn thing all the time, and I'd see her walking across the floor with white dust on her face licking her chops acting like she had done nothing. It was terrible, she thought I did not know, and I would look into the room where the litter was, and sure enough, she'd done it, then she knew I caught her. She then picked up the habit of wiping her face on the floor after she did it, and I'd not see any evidence, and she was able to get away with it. I finally ended up having to get some stuff from the vet to put in the cats food so she'd stop eating their crap. That worked.
Anyways, I loved her loads, spent lots of time with her, and just enjoyed all my time with her. Spend time with your dog, and treat it well, and you'll be happy with the results.
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I agree that dogs remember stuff, things they've done wrong, people they've 'met' etc.
I have a three year old Blue Heeler, he is a great dog, fully house trained, great with kids and animals, wouldnt hurt a fly.
The other day a mate of mine dropped around that I havent seen since Tiger (my Bluey) was about 8 weeks old, he used to hassle Tiger when he was a little puppy and Tiger hasn't forgotten it.
The moment my mate opened the gate and came into the yard, he had an angry three year old Blue Heeler that meant business hanging off his calf.
I came out to investigate all the yelling and carrying on, saw what was happening and called the dog off.
Tiger sat there with his hackles up and fangs bared, looking from my mate to me, pretty much begging for permission to go rip him a new one.
Troy (my mate) sat there with his pants leg up and a two bleeding canine holes bared, looking from the dog to me with a stunned expression on his face and said "little bugger has a long memory huh?"
Cracked me up.
Back when Tiger was a little ball of fluff that Troy loved to tease and annoy, I would say to him "You know mate, one day that little ball of fur is going to be a fully grown male blue cattle dog, and he isnt going to forget this"
Troy would laugh it off, he pretty much didnt believe a word of it.
Now he knows better :)
When confronted with a chewed shoe, or a spilled rubbish bin or any of the million and one other things they get up to, my dogs allways dob themselves in, whichever one is guilty of the crime either legs it and hides, or just rolls over and puts their tail between their legs in a submissive posture, depending on how serious they think the misdemeanour is.
If it was just tone of voice, or body posture that they were responding to, all three dogs would split, not just the guilty one.
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http://www.canismajor.com/dog/germansh.html
I am on my 4th and 5th GSD
12 year Female and 1 year Male (Kayla and Hunter)
They are the best but don't let them get bored they will amuse themselves with not good results for you.