Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on November 16, 2005, 06:56:41 PM
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Well I am done with my first skin. I will give it a couple days if anyone has anything they see that I can fix, then I will submitt it.
Pilot: Major James Goodson
Aircraft Type: P-51D-15-NA
Serial No: . 44-13303
Plane Code: VF B
Fighter Group: 4th Fighter Group
Squadron: 336th Fighter Squadron
Plane served from June 7, 1944 to June 20, 1944. 44-13303 was shot down while strafing an airfield over northern Germany. Pilot ditched and was subsequently captured.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_1.jpg)
Thanks to all for their help and particularly Fester who provided some timely guidance with paint chipping and weathering.
Cheers,
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In general I like it, however I do have one major (but subtle) suggestion. Reduce the opacity on the panel lines. Especially the white ones. Go by ear (eye, actually) but try white at 8-10% and black at 15-20% and adjust from there.
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Em, Skuzzy said last skins download the P-51D slots were full.
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That doesn't mean you can't submit them. Skuzzy might put it in the queue for the next rotation or something.
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True.
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red tail dammit!!
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Originally posted by Booz
red tail dammit!!
LOL not on a VF Kite. Blue for VF but not in June of 44. Red was on the QP kites of the 4th, but again not until the fall of 44 :)
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Looking at the skin, I have one question.
Do you have another photo that shows the D-Day stripes on the fuselage that way with the unpainted parts so the letter show? The one photo I've seen, and I think you posted it once, doesn't show that. Where it looks like a break near the VF seems to be the outline of the handhold not a change in the direction of the white paint on the stripe.
I think the letters were painted over the white on both the VF and the B
For what it's worth :)
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Originally posted by Krusty
In general I like it, however I do have one major (but subtle) suggestion. Reduce the opacity on the panel lines. Especially the white ones. Go by ear (eye, actually) but try white at 8-10% and black at 15-20% and adjust from there.
Krusty,
Are you talking about all the panel lines or the darker ones outlining the flaps, gun bays, etc ?
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They all seem to be equally prominent.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Looking at the skin, I have one question.
Do you have another photo that shows the D-Day stripes on the fuselage that way with the unpainted parts so the letter show? The one photo I've seen, and I think you posted it once, doesn't show that. Where it looks like a break near the VF seems to be the outline of the handhold not a change in the direction of the white paint on the stripe.
I think the letters were painted over the white on both the VF and the B
For what it's worth :)
Hey Guppy!
Well I looked at several sources. The photo you referenced,
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/urg0537.jpg)
is not of much help. I do believe that if you do look closely under the elevator that the paint stops below the "B". I am open to other's opinions on that, as it is pretty fuzzy. Like wise if you look closely and blow it up and use your imagination some it sorta kinda ;) appears that there is angeled paint from just under the left part of the stars and bars up and down toward the nose.
I also used Harly Copic's print of this particular Mustang as a guide. Mr. Copic did several Mustang Aces years ago and I have had one of his prints since about 1990. The paint for the stripes on the fusalage on the skin matches his artwork. (I cannot find an image online of this and the original is at home with my digital camera, I will post it later tonight)
I did find some others during my research that agreed with you. Here is a piece by Trudgian
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/goodson51.jpg)
that supports what you said, but it seems off to me under the canopy.
I found this..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf-h-jb1.jpg)
which shows a 336th Mustang with just the lower fusalage stripes. It matches the general layout I used on the skin.
The neat one I found was this..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/4th-01.jpg)
This obviously shows all of the 3 squadrons of the 4th FG, and you will notice that some have the letters painted over the stripes and some don't. The 336th bird seems to not have them over the stripes.
So I thought about it, and did some more research. (I truly loved doing all the digging on getting this skin as close to as it was as possible)
I found that "Goody" cracked up a Mustang on June 7, 1944 (Plane 44-13300) when he crashed landed at Manston. It was coded the same (VF-B). Obviously this plane (44-13303) was then given to him as a replacement sometime after the 7th. I then theorized that they would have been more careful in painting this one, as there was no rush to paint the stripes in one day. With that in mind I went with the Copic paint scheme which seemed to match at least 2 photos of that time period.
What do you think?
I am open to doing it with the letters on top of the stripes if we can find out it was that way, or I made some wrong assumptions, interpertation of photos. Let me know what you think. I just want it correct.
Cheers,
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Originally posted by Krusty
They all seem to be equally prominent.
I will adjust them all. I sure appreciate your assistance!
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Originally posted by Booz
red tail dammit!!
Boozer, (Oh magnificant CO, favorite wingman and guy who uses me as bait)
As I have explained to you before this particular Mustang did not have a red tail. It is as Guppy has stated.
Now go back to thinking up ways to use me as bait to get more kills. Lately I have been getting too shot up in these endevours and am tired of crashlanding a smoking shot up Mustang on a non foamed runway. :furious
Especially since we now have a red nosed 4th FG Mustang! :aok Thanks again MachNix!
Cheers,
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Originally posted by Fencer51
I will adjust them all. I sure appreciate your assistance!
And we appreciate the skin! :) heh heh
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glad I could help fencer!
this skin needs more specularity and shinyness for the metal.
adjust and play with the material file a bit.
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Nice skin! I always liked the full invasion stripes look. One more comment, if you'll allow - I think the panel lines on the nose have disappeared under the red trim - I'd either put the panel lines layer on top of the trim color (preferred) or reduce opacity on the red trim so the lines show through.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Hey Guppy!
Well I looked at several sources. The photo you referenced,
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/urg0537.jpg)
is not of much help. I do believe that if you do look closely under the elevator that the paint stops below the "B". I am open to other's opinions on that, as it is pretty fuzzy. Like wise if you look closely and blow it up and use your imagination some it sorta kinda ;) appears that there is angeled paint from just under the left part of the stars and bars up and down toward the nose.
I also used Harly Copic's print of this particular Mustang as a guide. Mr. Copic did several Mustang Aces years ago and I have had one of his prints since about 1990. The paint for the stripes on the fusalage on the skin matches his artwork. (I cannot find an image online of this and the original is at home with my digital camera, I will post it later tonight)
I did find some others during my research that agreed with you. Here is a piece by Trudgian
that supports what you said, but it seems off to me under the canopy.
I found this..G]
which shows a 336th Mustang with just the lower fusalage stripes. It matches the general layout I used on the skin.
The neat one I found was this..
This obviously shows all of the 3 squadrons of the 4th FG, and you will notice that some have the letters painted over the stripes and some don't. The 336th bird seems to not have them over the stripes.
So I thought about it, and did some more research. (I truly loved doing all the digging on getting this skin as close to as it was as possible)
I found that "Goody" cracked up a Mustang on June 7, 1944 (Plane 44-13300) when he crashed landed at Manston. It was coded the same (VF-B). Obviously this plane (44-13303) was then given to him as a replacement sometime after the 7th. I then theorized that they would have been more careful in painting this one, as there was no rush to paint the stripes in one day. With that in mind I went with the Copic paint scheme which seemed to match at least 2 photos of that time period.
What do you think?
I am open to doing it with the letters on top of the stripes if we can find out it was that way, or I made some wrong assumptions, interpertation of photos. Let me know what you think. I just want it correct.
Cheers,
This one would seem to suggest the lettering over the stripes. Same time frame, full stripes on an early D model VF bird. I'd go with that I think if it was me
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/27/VFStrips.jpg)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
This one would seem to suggest the lettering over the stripes. Same time frame, full stripes on an early D model VF bird. I'd go with that I think if it was me
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/27/VFStrips.jpg)
Wow, great photo. Good enough for me. I will change it tonight.
[edit] btw, where does this photo come from?
Cheers,
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fencer, the red on the spinner and the green on the cowling are too intense. otherwise it looks nice, good job:aok
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Well, I have made all the suggested changes except for the reduction in the glare panel and the nose colors. Sorry Pooface, but I think Blakeslee would want them bright.
Citabria, does this look "bright" enough? That material file is confusing to this newbie.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/VF_B8.jpg)
Thanks again all and if anyone sees anything else lets have it.
Cheers,
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that will work.
also adjust the color of the olive drab panel too look more like the phot above.
if your using photoshop use the color balance tool to adjust it.
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Ok adjusted the antiglare panel to a nice olive drab.
BTW, Guppy! Check out Page 21 of Aces and Wingmen II Volume 1 by Danny Morris. I bow before the master.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Well, I have made all the suggested changes except for the reduction in the glare panel and the nose colors. Sorry Pooface, but I think Blakeslee would want them bright.
Citabria, does this look "bright" enough? That material file is confusing to this newbie.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/VF_B8.jpg)
Thanks again all and if anyone sees anything else lets have it.
Cheers,
what i mean is that, the green is too rich, it needs more of an olive look, and the red just needs to be darkened a very tiny bit, because it looks almost like a neon light. just make the anti glare panel more of an olive colour (add a little yellow), and darken the red a little, just to make it loook like real paint. otherwise it looks really good, well done!
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Ok adjusted the antiglare panel to a nice olive drab.
BTW, Guppy! Check out Page 21 of Aces and Wingmen II Volume 1 by Danny Morris. I bow before the master.
OK I confess, I don't have that particular book. What am I missing? :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
OK I confess, I don't have that particular book. What am I missing? :)
Wow you don't have that book! :eek:
Get it. It is excellent, lots of obscure photos and other great information.
There is an Aces and Wingmen original and a volume 2 of A+W II as well, although I don't have them.
It shows the previously discussed photo of 4413303 enlarged and cropped. The invasion stripes do go under the letters. :aok
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where is the dirt and weathering?
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
where is the dirt and weathering?
Its there. The plane was only in service for 13 or so days and flew only 4 to 6 missions in that time. Its not a heavily used plane. But it has dirt in the areas that count, where the guys walked on either side of the canopy, under the fusalage where the wheels threw dirt and from the guns, because I figure that they might be used.
Color adjustments made.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/vf_b_final.jpg)