Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mister Fork on November 17, 2005, 01:18:07 PM
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For historically level bombers (B-24/B-17/Lancaster... etc)
- limit the ability to drop bombs through the bombsight only (F6)
For all others, the current standard.
It'll reduce the dive-bombing tards that up in a lanc/b-24, fly to 6000ft, then dive bomb a carrier or an airfield. Highly unrealistic, and pure game dweebery.
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no
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You're definitely the minority if you disagree with this.
edit: tilt's proposal (http://www.tilt.clara.net/attack/Ahattack.html)
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Not quite everything I would like, but it'd be a great start.
edit: That's a damn fine idea. Someone give Tilt a beer.
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Yep, it was Tilt's idea ~ ALL the credit should go to him. But this is where it needs to be posted... :aok
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Fine great idea... then make it so that fighters have to sit in the tower for 10 seconds after they die.
If you gonna limit one groups idea of how to play the game you had better limit the other groups to compensate.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Fine great idea... then make it so that fighters have to sit in the tower for 10 seconds after they die.
If you gonna limit one groups idea of how to play the game you had better limit the other groups to compensate.
Or just fix level bombers to F6 dropping only and cut out the crap we see now with a B-24 at 7000ft dive-bombing an airfield. Unrealistic, and it's gaming the game.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
You guys pointed out the flaws in my crappy ideas, and now I'm going to flame everything.
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The exception to tilt's suggestion that I'd make is for formations and dropping from the pilot's positions to still be enabled when carrying torpedoes. It is hard enough to hit with a torpedo with a formation of Ju88s or Ki-67s and forcing it to be done with a single aircraft is overly harsh.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Fine great idea... then make it so that fighters have to sit in the tower for 10 seconds after they die.
If you gonna limit one groups idea of how to play the game you had better limit the other groups to compensate.
:lol :rofl :rofl :lol, do you really believe what you are saying? Dive bombing heavies isn't "changing gameplay", it's correcting a problem.
Oh yeah, and good idea.
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100 fighters upping every 2 seconds to intercept bombers is a problem also.. there is nothing that says its not possible to dive bomb in a buff.
if LA-7's Niki's and Swarms of spitfires can fight eachother and it be considered plausable how is a formation of bombers droping from low alt or dive bombing any less?
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Well, all those fighter aircraft are modeled as accuratley as possible while the heavies are not. This isn't about accuracy as it pertains to P51's fighting the LW enemy. It's about making the aircraft perform as it should and nothing more. This has nothing to do with your inability to drop bombs and get the heck outta there either, so start your own thread about that and please don't hijack this 1. I mean after all in real life, heavy bombers didn't suicide themselfs and it was highly unlikely they'd go around on a bomb run. I don't even know why you'd be against it? From your accounts you do fairly high alt level bombing?
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The theory is almost sound except for one thing.
It further limits bombers.
I think the bombers in this game have enough limitations as it is.
If taking freedoms away from fighters to do things is always wrong then the same should apply to bombers.
besides in the past ive been told that the technique referenced above. (coming in low) is suicide and easily stopped.. if this is the case then why so many complaints about it?
whats a' matter fighter jocks? did we ruin your pointless furball by taking the base from under your noses while you chased our distraction planes 6k away from your base?
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sgtdeaux are you french? because you sure produce a lot of whine.
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I don't think this thread is about NOE bombing, it's about using heavy bombers as if they were Stukas.
I also don't think this thread is about furballers vs. toolshedders.
Lastly I don't think this or any other thread on this forum or the General forum on this subject is about BKs vs. the World (been biting my tongue about saying that for days now, just had to finally say it :))
I didn't realize bombers were currently limited and I didn't find where those current limitations were listed, so I'm not sure what we are talking about there.
I would love to see that list of current limitations for bombers and how making F6 the way to drop bombs from certain aircraft would limit bombers further.
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sgtdeaux,
You seem to need a lot more practice in bombers if you cannot use a B-17, B-24, B-26 or Ki-67 to bomb a target and get home.
You whine endlessly about fighters uping after you shot them down, but you ignore the fact that said fighters cannot re-engage you if you do your job correctly.
There is no way for an La-7 to get shot down by a Ki-67 at 22,000ft, reup, climb to the Ki-67's altitude and catch up to it. The only fighter that allows that is the Me163, and that fighter is both perked and limited to one base on each side.
Furball,
He's Texan it seems, which is oddly humerous given the atitude Texans generally try to perpetuate.
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I think bombs should only arm if they are dropped from level flight. What is to stop people from going into a dive, quick changing to the bomb site, dropping their bombs, then quick switching back to cockpit to recover? You could switch views quick enough and push the bomb button quick enough so that the auto-pilot would not effect accuracy. I don't think making it so that bombs can only be dropped from the bomb site will fix the problem, although it is a good idea from an historical accuracy point of view. I don't think the pilot could physically drop bombs from the cockpit, could he? I think the fix is two-fold:
1. Bombs will only arm from level (or close to level) flight
2. Bombs can only be dropped from bombsite.
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You bunch of flaming ninnys.
The point of my post is this... Noone objects or puts a post up for a rule change if fighters push their performance limits to the edge.
So why attempt to limit a bombers ability to perform its job when pusing to the edge? There is 3 times as much skill required to dive bomb as to level bomb.. you have to worry about drop angle... not tearing the aircraft to pieces ect..
I am capible of taking a formation of bombers in at 20k and tearing a base apart then returning home. I do it all the time. The point im trying to make here is simply... just because some bomber pilots are good enough to pull an attack that pushes the limits of what YOU expect them to be able to does not mean that this is a flaw in the game.
get over yourselves drama queens.
If I want to see you flame Ill go to the bar you dance at.
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Hmmmm, dive bombing heavy bombers isn't pushing the envolope! It simply wasn't done, it's an inaccuracy! It's a gamey little glitch in the game that people to lazy to learn the proper way to do things exploit...end of story! Why can't you understand this simple point? JU88's and NOE are fine, but a lanc diving in at a 65 degree angle is just gamey.
And bombers have it rough?
-3 bombers per formation
-Lazer easy bomb site
-All turrents controlled by 1 player
Yeah, they have it rough.:rolleyes: :noid
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I'm sorry because the unrealistic ballistic models and the HUGE selection of different fighter class planes puts fighter pilots at such an incredible disadvantage against bombers that you guys are completely unable to knock us out of the sky.
Cry me a river
Get a boat
and stop roasting posts that dont go your way.
:cry
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/4/42/200px-Red_Wine_Glas.jpg)
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LOL
Furball the noob speaks.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak
furball the noob who has been here three years longer than you. whine boy.
and i didnt speak, i yawned at you because you bore me with your drivel.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
LOL
Furball the noob speaks.
another newb another day.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
I know you guys don't want to say it, so I will. Yes, I'm a ****ing idiot. Your idea is better, even if I'm reluctant to recognize the obvious.
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sgtdeaux,
Praytell, what unrealistic ballistic models do you refer to? I'm sure HTC would love to have your proof so that they can fix the issues you obviously know so much about.
Also you'll note that 75+% of the fighters in AH you have no worries about as they are so obsolete that they are nearly harmless to your precious bombers. So whining about the number of fighter airframes in AH is disingenuous of you to say the least.
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Guys, this 1's really not worth it. He's proved his intellegence in other threads by supporting genicide of a whole culture:noid Basically what I come up with is he can't do bombing(one of the simplist things in the game) succesfully, so he want's to punish those that pwn him. That or he's 12:huh?
Oh and karnak, you won't get anything intelligent out of him. He'll probably just call you a noob and say go flame yourself:lol
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Originally posted by Karnak
The exception to tilt's suggestion that I'd make is for formations and dropping from the pilot's positions to still be enabled when carrying torpedoes. It is hard enough to hit with a torpedo with a formation of Ju88s or Ki-67s and forcing it to be done with a single aircraft is overly harsh.
I considered torps......and began to wonder if a torp loaded ac is not a form of attack ac.
Harsh or not..........
Ie dropping torps from pilots position would be enabled if the non formation attack variant was taken.
Whilst torpedo planes did attack en masse it was not really a formation exercise such as we see in "carpet bombing " from higher alts.
However f6 can be used from a torp formation........ and in this option would be required to do so I have never practiced it...........
Equally the TBM & Kate would have to be given the option of choosing attack or bomber status for the same reason (torps) even though they do not have a formation option.
I was trying to avoid COAD that identified torps ordinance and automatically selected "attack"
The proposal does not stop low level formations (fuse arming delay to one side) it just stops formation dive bombers and makes low level formation bombing a bit harder than scattering stuff from 500ft from F3
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Tilt,
The problem is that you practically need a formation just to have one or two bombers live long enough to reach attack range. The AA from ships seems more accurate and lethal than the historical stuff in that regards.
Torpedoes are already very, very close to being completely useless in AH.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The AA from ships seems more accurate and lethal than the historical stuff in that regards.
I see your point but it seems to me that if the low level AA acuracy is the problem then that is what should be resolved.
I have never studied the problem but a first question would be "if I approach low from one side can all the AA gain sight s on me ? If I am low to starboard do the port guns fire at me as well"
I think the next question would be "against a fixed point is AA as accurate at 1500 yards as it is at 500 yards?"...should it be?
If a torpedo attack always without fail requires a suicide element to press it home then may be something else is wrong with the game play balance.
I also think that the torp situation is less than perfect now.
For me the simplest solution would be to force an attack role when choosing torps.
Its a quirk of the game play that level bombing is the best way to dispatch fleets.
Notoriously this was the least effective method during WWII. (I think there is some statistic somewhere that shows just how useless B17's were against shipping)
Yet level bombing is so accurate that hardeness's and defences are modelled to comply with it (or vice versa) and this knocks onto the gameplay around torps.
To address this we would have to look at the whole bombing accuracy and object hardness balance within the game and make it more realistic ................not something HTC has plans to do I am sure.
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If memory serves me torpedo bombers that attacked CV battle groups never faired particularly well as far as planes returned home safely.
I usually attack CV's with torpedo planes have become fairly skilled at aiming them as well as avoiding the ground ack ack..
while it is a fairly daunting task its far from impossible.
One thing to consider is that a solo mission as a torpedo bomber evolves rapidly into a suicide mission. The skill of some of the pilots who fly in this game (to include superdude who has nailed me on a few occasions during a torpedo run.) is to say the least astounding.
This is the technique that has worked the best for me.
At least two torpedo bombers on the deck as well as one escort fighter and two heavy fighter/bombers up high.
A great number of the people who use the 5" guns get caught into target syndrome... they will lock onto a target and fire till its down instead of assessing the overall situation.
This attribute has allow myself and squadmates on several occasions to drive right up next to the CV and torp it.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
i just want to warn everybody, im a BK and i like to troll :)